Assassin Help Please! REOPEN see my latest post

[nikolaichrome]

Hello all. I need some advice. I am currently working on an Assassin style character. My DM is allowing all 3.5 books, but I'm trying to be conservative. I want him to be able to use a longsword and light crossbow, although im open to better ideas.

Now for statistics:
Human Male,
We are starting at level 4, but I would like to see full progression.

Im looking for any kind of help but please cite your sources so i can look them up in my expansive library.

[Venger]

Hello all. I need some advice. I am currently working on an Assassin style character. My DM is allowing all 3.5 books, but I'm trying to be conservative. I want him to be able to use a longsword and light crossbow, although im open to better ideas.

Now for statistics:
Human Male,
We are starting at level 4, but I would like to see full progression.

Im looking for any kind of help but please cite your sources so i can look them up in my expansive library.

when you say "assassin" do you mean the assassin prestige class? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm)

or do you mean the archetype as a whole? are you modeling him after ezio or another character? what kind of abilities would you like him to have?

iron chef (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202) did a round on assassin, so you can see a ton of different takes on the class there (I like spoons mcgee myself) if you're looking for inspiration.

don't forget about psychic assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) if you'd prefer to manifest, or psionic assassin (from secrets of sarlona) in order to nab that manifesting in the first place.

the more specificity you can give, the better suited to you my advice will be

[nikolaichrome]

when you say "assassin" do you mean the assassin prestige class? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm)

or do you mean the archetype as a whole? are you modeling him after ezio or another character? what kind of abilities would you like him to have?

iron chef (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202) did a round on assassin, so you can see a ton of different takes on the class there (I like spoons mcgee myself) if you're looking for inspiration.

don't forget about psychic assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) if you'd prefer to manifest, or psionic assassin (from secrets of sarlona) in order to nab that manifesting in the first place.

the more specificity you can give, the better suited to you my advice will beI'm kind of basing him off my favorite character from the night angel trilogy Durzo Blint. We don't use psyonics ever so those are a no go. I want him to be both good at stealth (using magic and skill simultaneously) and also be able to hold his own in combat. Ill take a look at the Iron chef listings to see if i can find what i need. Also I'm more looking at The Archetype not necessarily the Prestige Class.

[Piggy Knowles]

From Arsenic & Old Lace (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2714.5):

The Sword & Crossbow, by Akal Saris


alimor Srune'lett, NE Half-Drow Fighter 1/Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 14/Swordsage 2
Actual levels: Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 1/Fighter 1/Rogue +1/SB +1/Rogue 1/SW +14
ACFs: Drow swashbuckler 7, Drow Rogue 1, Drow fighter 1 (All from Drow of the Underdark), Spell Sense (C. Mage Rogue 3)
Note: suffers from multi-class penalties - sorry, there's no avoiding this if you actually use those in your game.

Total BAB: +18, total sneak attack: 9-11d6+20 per hit, total HD: 15d10+3d6+2d8

Stats: 32 PB
Str: 12
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

Feats:
1st: Versatile Combatant (DoTU)
1st flaw: Point Blank Shot
1st flaw: Precise Shot
2nd bonus SB: Weapon Finesse
3rd fighter: Crossbow Sniper (PHB II)
3rd: Hand Crossbow Focus (DoTU)
6th: Daring Outlaw (C. Scoundrel)
9th: Craven (Champions of Ruin)
12th: Improved Critical (Rapier)
15th: Staggering Strike (DoTU)
18th: Improved Critical (Hand Crossbow)

Skills: 8+2 = 10 skills from the rogue list. Probably Hide, Move Silently, Tumble, UMD, Listen, Spot, Search, Craft (Poison), Balance, Sleight of Hand.

Starting equipment (estimates): Composite Shortbow (35g), Studded Leather (30g), Rapier (20g), self-crafted drow poison x3 (75g)

How it all comes together:

1st level: You have Poison Use from your Drow rogue substitution, plus the feats to use a ranged weapon efficiently - so you basically just snipe with a short bow and pretend you don't have versatile combatant or a hand crossbow yet. You also have 3 poisoned arrows which can potentially end an encounter by putting an opponent to sleep.

2nd level: Now you have weapon finesse and +1 BAB, so you can use a rapier without missing consistently. So you become the party tank! You can also afford a masterwork chain shirt, masterwork tools (mostly for crafting poisons and searching for traps, I'd assume), and lots more poisons.

3rd level: Now suddenly you have Dex to damage against flat-footed opponents (Drow fighter), as well as 1/2 Dex to damage with crossbows (Crossbow sniper), plus weapon focus and rapid reload with a hand crossbow.

So at this point the tactic of charging in with a crossbow and rapier actually becomes viable - assuming no magical bonuses and a pair of masterwork weapons, you should be attacking at +5 for 1d6+2 and 1d6 SA (1d6+4 against flat-footed) with the rapier, and +6 for 1d4+2 and 1d6 SA (1d6+4 against flat-footed foes) with the crossbow. In addition to whatever poisons you've applied to your bolts and rapier - I like Roach Paste and Drow Poison on most things.

For equipment, a pair of MW weapons is good, as is picking up a str-based composite longbow and some more varied and higher DC poisons.

4th-5th level: Nothing special here, Dex gets bumped. For items, I'd get the Gloves of Dexterity ASAP, and some weapon crystals for quickdraw on your weapons is very helpful (MIC).

6th level: Daring Outlaw kicks into play, so you suddenly gain +1 Dodge to AC, but more importantly Sneak attack jumps from +1d6 to +3d6 damage. A Ring of the Darkhidden (MIC) is a great asset to stealth at this point.

7th: Now you add your Int to damage with the rapier. Adding the Assassination or Toxic/Virulent properties to your rapier to keep your poisons competitive is a good idea at this point.

8th: Dex gets bumped, adding to your damage, attacks, reflex, AC, and initiative. If you can use the online addition to SB, you can also use Bluff to seduce people =) The Ring of Anticipation (DoTU) is a good pick by this point, allowing you to roll 2x for initiative, helping to catch opponents flat-footed.

9th: Craven adds your character level to damage with sneak attacks, so you'll be dealing +4d6+9 (+4d6 +14 against flat-footed) with sneak attacks.
The Bracers of Murder (DoTU) are a great pick at this point, allowing you to reroll 1's on sneak attacks, as well as gaining +2 to att/dmg against flat-footed foes.

11th: Drow swashbuckler kicks in, allowing you to 5-ft step as a swift action whenever you hit once with at least each weapon in a round. Or you can keep Acrobatic Charge, but drow swashbuckler is a much more stylish effect in my mind.

12th: You now gain +4 on flanking from swashbuckler, and improved critical with the rapier

15th: Now whenever you critical with a rapier, the opponent is automatically slowed with no save, which should cut down on the mobility of anything trying to do Flyby Attack, or the deadliness of anything with nasty iterative attacks - such as practically every opponent you face by this point.

18th: Now your criticals with the hand crossbow will also slow opponents! Also, Weakening Critical from SB kicks in, allowing you to deal 2 Str damage to a creature every critical - combine it with 3d6 Str damage from Dragon Bile or another Str-based poison and anything not immune will drop fast.

19th: Swordsage adds nicely to Will and reflex, along with Weapon Focus (Rapier) from Diamond Mind Focus, +1 Init, and 6 maneuvers and a stance. Blood in the Water stance, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap, Pouncing Charge, Dancing Mongoose, Swift Invisibility, and Shadow Stride.

20th: Adds Assassin's Stance (or a mobility/senses ones) and probably Rabid Bear Strike.

Character roles and tactics:
The primary role is damage-dealer, which should be strong from 1st to 20th, but really increases in power at 3rd, 6th, and 9th level. The character is also a strong skills-monkey and scout from 1st-6th, but will be less efficient in that role afterwards due to the SB's mediocre skills list. The character is also a very solid tank, with 17d10+3d6 HP over the course of 20 levels - and as she gets weaker as a skills character her tanking should improve.

Finally, the character has more versatility in tactics than most damage-based classes - he can switch between melee and ranged combat easily, and poison use allows him to attack ability scores directly instead of just damage, or deal Con damage along with HP damage to drop a foe even faster than normal. Ideally, the character will function as the scout and tank, initiating every combat at the front line against flat-footed foes.

In PF, the character can maintain his role as skill-monkey from 1st to 20th.

Other good feats to take:
Quick Draw (also opens up some skill tricks)
Apprentice (Craftsman or Criminal)


Seems to be built in a similar direction to what you're talking about.

[Flickerdart]

If you want magic and stealth, there are a couple of directions you can take:

Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 4: your basic "guy who casts spells and stabs dudes" build, ending up with 19th level Wizard casting and +7d6 Sneak Attack. The notable thing about this build is that Unseen Seer gains divination spells off other classes' lists, so you can take Hunter's Eye at Unseen Seer 2 and as a swift action, gain +1d6 SA per 3 caster levels (so +7d6 at level 20, as the Unseen Seer also gains bonuses to divination CLs).

Beguiler 20: Beguilers are stealthy casters who focus on Enchantments and Illusions, but once your foe is asleep or paralyzed, that is the best time to cut his throat. They don't do all that well in melee combat, however, and gain no Sneak Attack at all.

Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Arcane Trickster 9: Sneak up to people and shoot them with lasers until they die. +7d6 SA total.

[nikolaichrome]

Thank you all for the recommendations so far. Ill definitely take a look at them. My only thing I really need is what books some of these things come from(I have over 700 books to look through lol)

[Emperor Tippy]

Gray Elf Rogue 1/ Factotum 8/ Cobra Strike Monk 6/ Mindbender 1/ Shadowdancer 1/ Exemplar 1/ Swordsage 2.

Feats: Darkstalker, Shadow Blade, Weapon Finesse, Mindsight, Skill Focus, Craven, Font of Inspiration 6 times, Faerie Mysteries Initiate.

Critical Item: Master Shadowhands, grab Balance on the Sky.

Attributes: Either 30 Dex, 36 Int with the rest of PB into Str or 36 Int, 30 Dex, and the rest of PB into Str.


Use the Decisive Strike and Invisible Fist ACF's for Monk.

Basic idea is to use a Cunning Surge to get in range, use Decisive Strike to double your damage, use Cunning Surge for another standard action, pour the rest of your IP into Cunning Strike for a +19d6 sneak attack. That gives you a 2*(1d4+19d6+13 (Dex/Int) +10 (Dex/Int) +5 (Str) + 20 (Craven)) sneak attack. Minimum is 136 Damage, average is 234.

Use this with Ghost Strike to force your opponent flat-footed. Add Searing Blade for an additional 2*(2d6+11) damage. Add Rabid Bear Strike for another 2x(10d6) damage, which averages 70 more.

Get a Collision dagger for the extra +5 damage (10 with Decisive Strike).

If you are willing to risk extra attacks, go Cunning Surge instead of Cunning Strike for 4 extra attacks, each dealing 2*(1d4+1d6+20 (Craven) + 13 (Dex/Int) +10 (Dex/Int) +5 (Str) + 5 (Collision) + (2d6+11) (Searing Blade)). Minimum is 136. So for all 5 attacks that is 680 damage assuming that all hit (which they should as you get +Int to attack and can spend an IP for Wraithstrike to hit Touch AC). You can also dump 4 Standard Action Strikes out in that routine as well.

And you can do pretty much the same thing with a bow. Throw out Snipers Shot and Guided Shot and you can do pretty much the same thing with a bow from out to 1,100 feet.

----
Factotum is the best class for a non pure caster assassin build in D&D.

Oh yeah, if your DM will let you and it works RP wise then throw on Necropolitian.

[Piggy Knowles]

I thought variable damage such as sneak attack doesn't get doubled from effects like valorous, decisive strike, etc.

[Flickerdart]

Unseen Seer is CMage, Spellwarp Sniper is CScou, Beguiler and Hunter's Eye are PHBII, all the other stuff I mentioned is Core. The build Piggy Knowles linked cites all sources inline.

[Emperor Tippy]

I thought variable damage such as sneak attack doesn't get doubled from effects like valorous, decisive strike, etc.

Decisive Strike just says that any attack in the round deals double damage.

If your DM rules that SA and the like don't double then go the Cunning Surge route, you tend to deal more damage anyways. Besides, Craven still multiplies.

[Piggy Knowles]

Decisive Strike just says that any attack in the round deals double damage.

If your DM rules that SA and the like don't double then go the Cunning Surge route, you tend to deal more damage anyways. Besides, Craven still multiplies.

True, or sacrifice it all into Maiming Strike for 18 points of Charisma damage, since that's also non-variable.

[Emperor Tippy]

True, or sacrifice it all into Maiming Strike for 18 points of Charisma damage, since that's also non-variable.

But arguably might not double, again depending on DM.

[Flickerdart]

Oh, one more thing.

In the builds I mention that start with Rogue 1/Wizard 5, you may consider making that Wizard 5/Assassin 1. You lose a bunch of skill points and trapfinding but gain Poison Use and the ability to use Assassin wands without UMD.

[Piggy Knowles]

But arguably might not double, again depending on DM.

Pretty sure it should. I went ahead and pulled up the Rules Compendium to check:

"MULTIPLYING DAMAGE
Sometimes damage is multiplied, such as on a critical hit.
Roll the damage dice and add all modifiers multiple times.
Total the results. Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s
normal damage, such as those dealt by precision damage
abilities (see page 42), are never multiplied."

It specifies extra damage dice, but since you're doing static damage with Maiming Strike instead of dice of damage, it should still multiply. But of course any of this is DM dependent.


Oh, one more thing.

In the builds I mention that start with Rogue 1/Wizard 5, you may consider making that Wizard 5/Assassin 1. You lose a bunch of skill points and trapfinding but gain Poison Use and the ability to use Assassin wands without UMD.

Alternatively, Spellthief 1/Wizard 5, which would open up Master Spellthief.

Actually, since I've got the Rules Compendium out, this reminds me of a recent discussion about volley rules and sneak attacking with rays. Spellwarp snipers and ray sneak attackers suffer from the volley rules in Rules Compendium, because technically things like Split Ray and the like qualify as volley attacks and hence only apply precision damage once. BUT, going sorcerer instead of wizard means that metamagic-adjusted spells will require a full round to cast, and hence WON'T qualify as volleys (since Rules Compendium considers volleys to be anything that makes multiple attacks in less than a full round action). That could potentially make sorcerers more useful for spellwarp snipers than wizards. (Wings of Flurry doesn't hurt, either...)

[Flickerdart]

Alternatively, Spellthief 1/Wizard 5, which would open up Master Spellthief.
Unless your DM lets Master Spellthief increase the level of spells you can steal, or you're using it for jacked CL shenanigans, it's not terribly useful.



Actually, since I've got the Rules Compendium out, this reminds me of a recent discussion about volley rules and sneak attacking with rays. Spellwarp snipers and ray sneak attackers suffer from the volley rules in Rules Compendium, because technically things like Split Ray and the like qualify as volley attacks and hence only apply precision damage once. BUT, going sorcerer instead of wizard means that metamagic-adjusted spells will require a full round to cast, and hence WON'T qualify as volleys (since Rules Compendium considers volleys to be anything that makes multiple attacks in less than a full round action). That could potentially make sorcerers more useful for spellwarp snipers than wizards. (Wings of Flurry doesn't hurt, either...)
True, but Sorcerers can't afford to take that Rogue dip as freely. If you want full-round actions, Ocular Spell is where it's at.

[nikolaichrome]

Got word from my DM, He doesn't want Spell heavy characters (Clerics and other healing types are the only exception). He said that basic utility spells are cool, but not too much(spells like invisibility and spider climb and the like make sense, but no assassins shooting death rays). Also we are limited to a total of 4 classes by lvl 20.

[Emperor Tippy]

Got word from my DM, He doesn't want Spell heavy characters (Clerics and other healing types are the only exception). He said that basic utility spells are cool, but not too much. Also we are limited to a total of 4 classes by lvl 20.

Necropolitian Gray Elf Rogue 1/ Factotum 8/ Mindbender 1/ Swordsage 10.

Feats are Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Shadowblade, Adaptive Style, Craven, Mindsight, Weapon Finesse, and 5 iterations of Font of Inspiration.

[Flickerdart]

A cleric sneak? I'm on it.

Shadowbane Stalker gives 8/10 divine spell progression and +3d6 SA. Black Flame Zealot, Scar Enforcer, and Eye of Lolth are 5/10 and 3d6. Daggerspell Shaper is 9/10 and +3d6 but it needs Wild Shape, not sure if Druids count as a "healing type". Mythic Exemplar and Master of Masks are 4/10 and 4d6. Sanctified One of Olidamarra is 2/5 casting and 2d8 (not 2d6!) SA. Spellwarp Snipers (5/5 and 2d6) can come from divine casters as well.

So assuming that you want to maximize your casting, Cleric 9/Rogue 1/Shadowbane Stalker 10 gives you +4d6 SA and 17th level Cleric casting. Alternatively, Sneak Attack Fighter 7/Divine Crusader 1/Shadowbane Stalker 10/Contemplative 1/Prestige Ranger 1 gives you 9th level spells from two domains, all Ranger spells (remember that Hunter's Eye spell from before? That's a Ranger spell) and +7d6 Sneak Attack. Replace Divine Crusader with Ur-Priest for more power.

Edit: Oh, only 4 classes? Well, then choose between Contemplative and Prestige Ranger.

[nikolaichrome]

Necropolitian Gray Elf Rogue 1/ Factotum 8/ Mindbender 1/ Swordsage 10.

Feats are Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Shadowblade, Adaptive Style, Craven, Mindsight, Weapon Finesse, and 5 iterations of Font of Inspiration.

1. Which book is Necropolitian in?
2. He doesn't allow book of nine swords, so Swordsage goes out the window

but other wise thank you.

[Emperor Tippy]

1. Which book is Necropolitian in?
Libris Mortis.


2. He doesn't allow book of nine swords, so Swordsage goes out the window

but other wise thank you.

Factotum 8/ Ur-Priest 1/ Warlock 2/ Mystic Theuge (Ur-Priest/Warlock) 9.

Grab Darkness and Devil's Sight as your Invocations. Take the feat Blend Into Shadows (Drow of the Underdark). Take lots of Font of Inspiration. Max Int and Wis. Oh yeah, Darkstalker as well.

Cast 9th level divine spells, have the Factotum abilities, have Swift action Hide in Plain Sight (effectively), have the Eldritch Blast for whatever.

Use your divine casting to buff yourself, use factotum to dump a massive sneak attack and/or tons of actions on your opponent.

For extra fun throw on Vow of Poverty and Chaos Shuffle it at the start of the game for extra feats.

[Gildedragon]

Necropolitan: Libris Mortis.

Pity, swordsage is a great assassin-y class.

Edit: Tipped over

[Flickerdart]

Factotum 8/ Ur-Priest 1/ Warlock 2/ Mystic Theuge (Ur-Priest/Warlock) 9.

Factotum does not satisfy the Fortitude and Will save prerequisites of Ur-Priest.

[Emperor Tippy]

Factotum does not satisfy the Fortitude and Will save prerequisites of Ur-Priest.

Move the Warlock and Ur-Priest levels. Or if your DM won't allow fractional saves, drop a level of Ur-Priest for one more of Warlock. Sure you loose out on 9th level divine spells but you are still fine.

[Flickerdart]

If you are taking 3 levels of Warlock anyway, then Eldritch Theurge is unquestionably better than Mystic Theurge.

[Emperor Tippy]

If you are taking 3 levels of Warlock anyway, then Eldritch Theurge is unquestionably better than Mystic Theurge.

Two levels of Warlock, use a Chasuble of Fell Power to qualify. I forgot about ET. That build is actually legal.

[Mutazoia]

Got word from my DM, He doesn't want Spell heavy characters (Clerics and other healing types are the only exception). He said that basic utility spells are cool, but not too much(spells like invisibility and spider climb and the like make sense, but no assassins shooting death rays). Also we are limited to a total of 4 classes by lvl 20.

MUhahaha....my favorite assassin types have always been Cleric/Thief builds...take the death and trickery domains...just with the death domain you can instanly kill people with a touch (roll 1D6 per cleric level, if that total is higher than their HP they die) You get to cast Silence (perfect for sneaking up on some one) reverse healing spells....Slay living at higher levels....for some reason Clerics seem to make really awesome assassins ;)

[Venger]

MUhahaha....my favorite assassin types have always been Cleric/Thief builds...take the death and trickery domains...just with the death domain you can instanly kill people with a touch (roll 1D6 per cleric level, if that total is higher than their HP they die) You get to cast Silence (perfect for sneaking up on some one) reverse healing spells....Slay living at higher levels....for some reason Clerics seem to make really awesome assassins ;)

if you want to play cleric/rogue, black flame zealot might be up your alley. half casting, half SA, and death attack.

[Flickerdart]

MUhahaha....my favorite assassin types have always been Cleric/Thief builds...take the death and trickery domains...just with the death domain you can instanly kill people with a touch (roll 1D6 per cleric level, if that total is higher than their HP they die) You get to cast Silence (perfect for sneaking up on some one) reverse healing spells....Slay living at higher levels....for some reason Clerics seem to make really awesome assassins ;)
The Death Domain power is profoundly useless. You can just use a standard action to cast any "1d6/CL" damage spell you want, except you can actually make that spell better with metamagic, use it more than once a day if you have the slots, and if it doesn't kill them then they still took damage.

[Mutazoia]

The Death Domain power is profoundly useless. You can just use a standard action to cast any "1d6/CL" damage spell you want, except you can actually make that spell better with metamagic, use it more than once a day if you have the slots, and if it doesn't kill them then they still took damage.

yeah but it's fun to use on low level mooks as intimidation/interrogation tactics :)

Of course if you didn't want to take that just for flavor the Evil domain lets you cast "evil" spells at +1 caster level so all your reverse heal spells are more potent.

[Flickerdart]

I don't see what value an instant-kill power that does nothing on a failure could possibly have when it comes to interrogation, especially if you only get it once a day. If you need to make an example of people, a barbarian with an axe serves just as well.

[Mutazoia]

If you need to make an example of people, a barbarian with an axe serves just as well.

Yes...because every stealthy assassin keeps a barbarian with an axe in his pocket for just such emergencies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYlDbv7MqE8) :)

*see edit to last post*

[nikolaichrome]

Okay just got more info from the DM:

1. I must either use assassin base class from assassin handbook or use Assassin prestige class from DMG. If I use PrC I have to go the full ten levels in it before picking anything else.

2. We are doing a healthy dose of roleplaying as well, i have to keep that in mind while building.

[Emperor Tippy]

Okay just got more info from the DM:

1. I must either use assassin base class from assassin handbook or use Assassin prestige class from DMG. If I use PrC I have to go the full ten levels in it before picking anything else.

2. We are doing a healthy dose of roleplaying as well, i have to keep that in mind while building.

Factotum 8/ Assassin 10/ Exemplar 1/ Mindbender 1

On a Necropolitan Gray Elf (Dark if LA buy off is allowed).

Feats are Craven, Darkstalker, Skill Focus (any), Mindsight, and the rest Font of Inspiration. Possibly throw in Quick Reconnoiter if you want Free Action spot and listen checks every round.

That's about the best Assassin build that you will get with your restrictions. If you want to focus on long range assassination then also pick up Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. Get a Distance, Seeking, Splitting Bow and then use the spell Sniper's Shot to sneak attack from any distance. If your DM will let you get an eternal wand of Persistent Guided Shot then get that as well so that you take no penalty for shooting from a distance. Proceed to shoot people in the eye from 2,000 feet away from full sneak attack damage.

[nikolaichrome]

Thanks for all the help. I'm going to bed for now, i'll check back in in the morning see if there is anything new.

[nikolaichrome]

Reopening today with New information. My DM has rescended some of his prior rulings. New information as follows:

1. Still no Tome of Battle (he feels its god modding too much)
2. I can use whatever I feel best suits an Assassin.
3. He is using house rules with races, and i only have info on humans so I have to play human.
4.I'm wanting to focus mainly on combat and stealth, only using magic to augment my stealth.
EDIT: 5. No Psyonics either, i dont know why he just said no.

So any New help is greatly requested.

[Emperor Tippy]

Reopening today with New information. My DM has rescended some of his prior rulings. New information as follows:

1. Still no Tome of Battle (he feels its god modding too much)
2. I can use whatever I feel best suits an Assassin.
3. He is using house rules with races, and i only have info on humans so I have to play human.
4.I'm wanting to focus mainly on combat and stealth, only using magic to augment my stealth.

So any New help is greatly requested.

Same as my previous idea.

Replace Gray Elf with Human. Its somewhat worse but still really good.

[nikolaichrome]

Same as my previous idea.

Replace Gray Elf with Human. Its somewhat worse but still really good.

ok thank you.

[Gildedragon]

Factotum into chamaleon is quite good too; the sheer variety of possible abilities means you can sneak in as a servant/catering, slip the poison into the mark's meal, and leave as the valiant guest that tried doing a heimlich or CPR on the asphyxiating noble

[Blackhawk748]

I played this guy a long time ago, Sorcerer 5/Rouge 5/Assassin 10. Was he really optimized? no. was he fun? oh hell ya, snag invisibility and a couple other utility style spells you want, and then spam away. I also recommend grabbing at least 1 attack spell, Melfs Acid Arrow or Scorching Ray are my personal choices

Edit: and be sure to grab Practiced Spellcaster so youll cast as a 9th lvl Sorcerer

[Studoku]

1. Still no Tome of Battle (he feels its god modding too much)
What does he mean by god modding? I've only seen that term used in freeform RP. Does he mean overpowered?

Unearthed Arcana has two fighter variants that might be useful. You can take both of them.
Sneak attack fighter trades your bonus feats for a rogue's sneak attack.
Thug gives you 4 skill points and a few more class skills (not including hide/move silently though). You lose your level 1 bonus feat (which you'd lose anyway) and medium/heavy armor.

One level would give you +1d6 sneak attack, a level of d10 HD and martial weapon proficiency- which you'll need to get somewhere if you want to use longswords. Rogue 3/Thug 1 gives you the 3d6 sneak attack you need to qualify for assassin. You still need a level for the skill points though.

They're in the SRD here. It won't stand up to any of the actual optimization but it's simple and should do what you want. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm

[nikolaichrome]

What does he mean by god modding? I've only seen that term used in freeform RP. Does he mean overpowered?

Unearthed Arcana has two fighter variants that might be useful. You can take both of them.
Sneak attack fighter trades your bonus feats for a rogue's sneak attack.
Thug gives you 4 skill points and a few more class skills (not including hide/move silently though). You lose your level 1 bonus feat (which you'd lose anyway) and medium/heavy armor.

One level would give you +1d6 sneak attack, a level of d10 HD and martial weapon proficiency- which you'll need to get somewhere if you want to use longswords. Rogue 3/Thug 1 gives you the 3d6 sneak attack you need to qualify for assassin. You still need a level for the skill points though.

They're in the SRD here. It won't stand up to any of the actual optimization but it's simple and should do what you want. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm

I think he means overpowered, He just used to the term godmodding.
Thank you for reminding me of UA Ill take those under advisment.

[Grayson01]

Okay here is my crazy idea to fit your build. You said you were open to a different weapon mix up besides longsword and Light crossbow how about Rapier and Handcross bow? I will explain why in the build.
1st Spell Theif feats: telling blow (phb2) Versatile Combatant (Drow of the Underdark DOU) max out stealth, disguise, Spot, tumble, and slight of hand at all levels
2nd spell theif
3rd spell theif feat: Hand Crossbow focus (DOU)
4th spell theif skill trick: conceal Spellcasting (CS)
5th spell theif
6th assassin feat: weapon finess
7th assassin
8th assassin
9th assassin Master Spell theif (CS) Skill Trick: Acrobatic Backstab (CS)
10th assassin Skill Trick: Spot The Weak Point (CS)
11th Assassin
12th Assassin Improved Crit Rapier
13th Assassin
14th Assassin
15th Assassin
16th Spell Theif
17th Spell Theif
18th Spell Theif
19th Spell Theif
20th Spell Theif

Okay here is why the switch to Rapier and Handcross Bow
Versitle Comabtant allows you too fight with a hand crossbow and a rapier as if you had two weapon fighting, Handcross how Focus gives you weapon focus and rapid reload for the Handcross bow. So it gives you that kinda style you wanted from the weapon choice.
Master Spell Theif will stack your Assassin and Spell Theif levels for caster levels and levels of stolen spell.
The Spells from the assassin and the Spell Theif will not be ubar spell casting like your DM wants. Go through the Spell compendium for assassin spells cause it has some awesome ones.
The Improved Crit will really bring out telling blow cause on any Crit you deal sneak attack damage so if you Crit while flanked you deal twice your sneak attack damage.
I am still think about 15th and 18th level feats.

[nikolaichrome]

Okay here is my crazy idea to fit your build. You said you were open to a different weapon mix up besides longsword and Light crossbow how about Rapier and Handcross bow? I will explain why in the build.
1st Spell Theif feats: telling blow (phb2) Versatile Combatant (Drow of the Underdark DOU) max out stealth, disguise, Spot, tumble, and slight of hand at all levels
2nd spell theif
3rd spell theif feat: Hand Crossbow focus (DOU)
4th spell theif skill trick: conceal Spellcasting (CS)
5th spell theif
6th assassin feat: weapon finess
7th assassin
8th assassin
9th assassin Master Spell theif (CS) Skill Trick: Acrobatic Backstab (CS)
10th assassin Skill Trick: Spot The Weak Point (CS)
11th Assassin
12th Assassin Improved Crit Rapier
13th Assassin
14th Assassin
15th Assassin
16th Spell Theif
17th Spell Theif
18th Spell Theif
19th Spell Theif
20th Spell Theif

Okay here is why the switch to Rapier and Handcross Bow
Versitle Comabtant allows you too fight with a hand crossbow and a rapier as if you had two weapon fighting, Handcross how Focus gives you weapon focus and rapid reload for the Handcross bow. So it gives you that kinda style you wanted from the weapon choice.
Master Spell Theif will stack your Assassin and Spell Theif levels for caster levels and levels of stolen spell.
The Spells from the assassin and the Spell Theif will not be ubar spell casting like your DM wants. Go through the Spell compendium for assassin spells cause it has some awesome ones.
The Improved Crit will really bring out telling blow cause on any Crit you deal sneak attack damage so if you Crit while flanked you deal twice your sneak attack damage.
I am still think about 15th and 18th level feats.
Love the build, my only problem is that since im human i have to get exotic weapon prof for hand crossbow.

[Grayson01]

Bump all the classes up and take Rouge at first you get it as a rouge I forgot about that or take a flaw at first and see if your DM will let you take it at first