[PF] duelist help

[praetor156]

how does the duelist prestiege class handle. was looking at it for a death by a thousand cuts type character. it seems like it could do well it would be a t4 class but

[magwaaf]

honestly i wanna play it with 10 levels of magus and an item of 3 times a day bestow curse

[Squirrel_Dude]

Well, the obvious entry is something using the Dervish Dance Feat. At least that way you can take advantage of the perform skill requirements.

A review of the class.
Honestly the class seems most interesting at it's 5th level when you can parry an attack and then turn it into a more accurate AOO. Parry also doesn't have any wording in it saying that "if you fail to parry" they automatically hit. Basically, you're making yourself very hard to hit (Attack rolls + AC >>> AC), with the chance to increase you bonus to hit.

How it works:
Basically, if you're fighting a guy in melee, I would dump your attacks over choosing to parry all of them. First off, things like haste, giving you extra attacks might apply, making it easier to resist these attacks. For example, just going with Base attack bonuses as the full attack bonus here.

Attack 1: +17 vs +20, parry, make AOO at +20 to hit
Attack 2: +12 vs +15, parry, make AOO at +20 to hit
Attack 3: +7 vs +10, fail to parry, enemy misses AC
Attack 4: +2 vs +5, parry, make AOO at +20 to hit

The basic is that an AOO is always made at your highest attack bonus, meaning that you could actually be dramatically increasing your chance to hit. I think it's pretty solid.

Precise Strike is just a flat bonus, basically (but not against all enemies), same with enhanced mobility. Canny Defense would be nicer if it applied to CMD, too. Acrobatic charge is kind of stupid: You ignore difficult terrain (except for when you don't).

Look if you're going to be a mundane fighting with a 1 handed weapon, it's probably better to take 10 levels of this class than 10 more levels of fighter. I'm not sure if that's high praise, though.


Suggested build:
Pick a race with a dex bonus that you like.

6 (Mobile or Free Hand) Fighter, 10 Duelist, 4 (as before) Fighter
Feats:
1. Weapon Finesse
1. Combat Expertise
2. Dervish Dance
3. Finesse Maneuvers
4. Dodge
5. Mobility
6. Improved Disarm or Feint (flavor to taste)
7. Greater Disarm or Feint
9. Critical Focus (Scimitar)
11. Improved Initiative
13. Staggering Critical
15. Wind Stance
17. Stunning Critical
19. Whirlwind Attack

I am not proud that I am suggesting Wind Stance and Whirlwind attack, but there are some extra feats there, and I figure you might as well take advantage of those terrible feat prerequisites of Dodge and Mobility and build something with them. Don't get lightening stance. Maybe do Improved Critical (Scimitar) instead of Improved Initiative.

The other downside is you won't get combat reflexes until leve 7. I just threw combat expertise/greater (manuever) in there to take advantage of your intelligence and to do something with it. The other way to build this character would be to go rogue and fient your way into sneak attacking people. Personally I prefer the fighter for the extra HP, BAB, and the ability to get Stunning Critical.

[marcielle]

A Hexcrafter can curse almost indefinitely.

Also, you can go Kensai Magus for better stat synergy. You lose 2 points of Bab but gain the ability to cast Truestrike/ Shocking Grasp/ any appropriate spell during a full attack and can gain a familiar(who might be able to use a buffing wand on you). You also get a free Exotic weapon, some of which are pretty nice. Let me reiterate, thats cast Truestrike and attack during the same turn. Hoard a few pearls of power and you pretty much hit whenever you want. Then there's the arcana, which you can use to further increase accuracy or AC if you want.

As a Magus you will already be fighting one handed so no loss there. Also, Haste is on your spell list and you can put a wand into your sword and cast it right before you attack Haste specifically doesn't work with this. The only thing you are really missing is pounce OWAIT FORCE HOOK CHAAAARGE.

Also, Bladed Dash is one awesome spell. Full attack and then fly off, hitting them one last time just to rub it in. Or close in and follow up with your full repertoire. In fact, just get wand wielder arcana and Bladed Dash all over the place. Trust me, it's way fun so long as you know what you are doing.

While maybe not the most optimal, a wand wielding Kensai Duelist is probably better than the fighter entry. The to hit should be almost the same but AC and mobility would be through the roof. If you go normal Magus that's fine too. You won't have to delay Duelist to get your first Arcana and can wear light armor. Also, grease. Grease is just plain fun.

p.s. You will probably want pearls of power. Lots of them. If you run out of normal spells, don't be afraid to spell combat with cantrips. That essentially gives you TWF for free. Except it's not a light weapon and you don't need to pay double enchantment costs.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Don't use Duelist at all, it's just horrible.

A Magus build, as mentioned, is a good substitute. Also look at the Dervish of Dawn Bard, who is a skilled dashing 1H swordsman that is just better in every way.

[Squirrel_Dude]

The only reason I said was to use a fighter is because I would rather be a straight Magus than Magus 8 Duelist 10. At least with Fighter you're getting some bonuses for going into the prestige class.

[gartius]

couple of things:
you cant use a scimitar as it is a slashing weapon, use a rapier instead

you can only parry one attack a round, not dump all your attacks, which is a shame because it would make the class so much better.

[StreamOfTheSky]

couple of things:
you cant use a scimitar as it is a slashing weapon, use a rapier instead.

Dervish Dance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/pel-s-lab/dervish-dance) feat, in addition to using dex to damage (and attack! but since it requires Weapon Finesse, ony those who get it as a bonus feat like Dervish of Dawn notice that tidbit), also lets you count a scimitar as a piercing weapon for requirements.

[gartius]

ooo... my bad. but the parry thing is still right.

[Drelua]

Looking over duelist, I just had a crazy and likely terrible idea. What if you took a couple levels of monk and went for Crane Style? You could fight unarmed if you take Master of Many Styles Monk and Snake Style. Entry would be delayed by a level, unfortunately. Spread out your levels right and you can have all 3 Crane Style feats by level 4, with plenty of time to grab Snake Style. I might try something like Free Hand Fighter 2 (I'm still not sure if that archetype is worth it or not)/MoMS Monk 2/FH Fighter +3 into duelist if you're using a sword, maybe using Brawler if you wanted to go unarmed. Just don't take Free Hand past level 5 or 6, it really doesn't offer anything much. Lore Warden would also have some INT synergy, now that I think about it.

[Squirrel_Dude]

couple of things:
you cant use a scimitar as it is a slashing weapon, use a rapier instead

you can only parry one attack a round, not dump all your attacks, which is a shame because it would make the class so much better.Ah, I see.

Yeah, that's pretty terrible.