3.0/3.5 - Rubik's Revoltingly Rotten Remonstration!

[Rubik]

I have a challenge for everyone who wants to try their hands at this.

You went to a party. At this party, you were the target of a cruel practical joke at the hands of Loki, god of chaos and general shenanigans. Unfortunately, this wasn't just Seran Wrap on the outhouse seat or sovereign glue in the prophylactics. (Hey, it was a really wild party.)

You, my friend, picked up the worst decorative hor d'oeuvres toothpick in history, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15476802&postcount=55) and now you're stuck with it for life.


A Fine-sized alchemical silver -2 cursed longsword with the defending (+1), mighty cleaving (+1), Disarming (+2), Fleshgrinding (+2), precise throwing (+1), spellstrike (+1), morphing (+1) and whirling (+1) abilities, plus spellblade x6 x7 (Targeted Dispel Magic, Targeted Greater Dispel Magic, Break Enchantment, Remove Curse, Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle, 6,000 gp each), and a Twinned Repeating Contingent Greater Bestow Curse on it prevents the wielder from ever letting go of it under any circumstances.

It's disguised as an hor d'oeuvres toothpick at a fancy party. Someone eats the olive on it and then he's stuck with it when he fails his save. It deals 1 damage natively, so the -2 (-3 with the alchemical silver) means you only ever deal 1 damage, which is minimal damage even on a critical. Defending and spellstrike would apply a penalty to your AC and saves, respectively. Mighty cleaving is also useless since it deals virtually no damage and will likely never kill anything (and the creatures of the size to wield it can't even threaten, meaning it's double-useless). Disarming means it can't be taken from you ever. And fleshgrinding can't be used because the wielder can't let go of the weapon. Precise Throwing is useless as well, because the wielder cannot throw it. Morphing does virtually nothing, because it's so tiny. Even on a x4 critical, that's still only 1 damage: (1 x 4) - 3. Whirling means that you can attack everything within reach of the weapon. For Tiny creatures it's useless, and it deals so little damage that even for larger creatures it's virtually useless. Oh, and the spellblade components mean that the curse, and therefore the sword, can't be removed.

Unfortunately for Loki, his prank backfired! It's your player's job to build you as a martial build that uses that toothpick to the best of his ability! You use that poke-stick as your primary weapon, and you're good at it!

I want to see some 20th level martial builds built around using that thing to maximum advantage. No more than 5 levels of spellcasting (and no fast-progression classes), but otherwise, all official 3.0 and 3.5 sources allowed. 32 point buy, no more than +2 LA, with no LA buyoff. You must use the sword as your only weapon, and no altering the sword in question is allowed, either. No breaking basic WBL (aside from the toothpick, which is free! Awesome, right?), and no Leadership shenanigans.

C'mon, Playground! Show me what y'got!

[Edit] No Tome of Battle allowed.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ummm... not that hard, actually. You see, what the poster seems to forget is that the actual damage of the weapon itself is a fairly trivial component to the overall damage output of a melee character.

It also has no way to keep people from just casting Enlarge Item on it to make it Normal sized and able to be wielded normally.

Conversely, it is also fairly trivial to build a character which is effective in spite of this weapon. Unarmed Swordsage comes to mind.

Heck, for that matter, any initiator can take this weapon and be almost as effective. Greater Magic Weapon offsets the Curse's penalties, and the abilities can actually be useful.

In fact, it would be harder to deal with something like a +5 Vorpal. +5 is basically wasted money since that's just a third level spell, and Vorpal is worthless because anything you can crit will be dead on a crit anyways.

[Gildedragon]

Okay; so listing the pros for it might be good.

Firstly: the curse of -2 swords takes a week to trigger... far longer than a hors takes to eat. But ignoring that...

One is now immune to a variety of buff-stripping effects.
It does not damage precision damage output

TWFing with it would be hilarious; it'd use both weapon slots; so if a something to boost its precision-ness is used it becomes lethal.

A DFA is unaffected by this weapon, and cannot have their buffs stripped away.

Going around it:

Also, while destroying it with disintegrate is still a possibility, having an artificer retain its considerable essence to make a new magic item is a distinct possibility.

Using a dragonshard pommel would suppress all its abilities

[Rubik]

Ummm... not that hard, actually. You see, what the poster seems to forget is that the actual damage of the weapon itself is a fairly trivial component to the overall damage output of a melee character.

It also has no way to keep people from just casting Enlarge Item on it to make it Normal sized and able to be wielded normally.

Conversely, it is also fairly trivial to build a character which is effective in spite of this weapon. Unarmed Swordsage comes to mind.

Heck, for that matter, any initiator can take this weapon and be almost as effective. Greater Magic Weapon offsets the Curse's penalties, and the abilities can actually be useful.

In fact, it would be harder to deal with something like a +5 Vorpal. +5 is basically wasted money since that's just a third level spell, and Vorpal is worthless because anything you can crit will be dead on a crit anyways.This is a good point. Nothing from ToB allowed. Updating OP.

[Crasical]

This is a good point. Nothing from ToB allowed. Updating OP.

This feels like moving the goalposts.

BUILD ME AN EFFECTIVE MELEE CHARACTER! but no ToB.
COOK ME A DELICIOUS DINNER! but no spices.
FILL MY INFLATABLE SWIMMING POOL! but no buckets.

[GreenSerpent]

This feels like moving the goalposts.

BUILD ME AN EFFECTIVE MELEE CHARACTER! but no ToB.
COOK ME A DELICIOUS DINNER! but no spices.
FILL MY INFLATABLE SWIMMING POOL! but no buckets.

Aye? WHY is ToB not allowed? It's pretty well balanced material and it makes things far more interesting.

Plus, Targeted Reaving Dispel (SpC). Or simply step into an Antimagic Field, suppress all the magic abilities, and leave it there. Problem solved.

[Crasical]

Aye? WHY is ToB not allowed? It's pretty well balanced material and it makes things far more interesting.

Plus, Targeted Reaving Dispel (SpC). Or simply step into an Antimagic Field, suppress all the magic abilities, and leave it there. Problem solved.

The latter isn't really in the spirit of the 'Use this terrible, terrible weapon and be successful with it' challenge. The former is what I have issue with.

[PersonMan]

These kinds of threads always follow the same pattern:

OP posts challenge.
Someone succeeds.
OP says "ok, now without X".
Someone succeeds.
OP says "ok, now without Y".
.
.
.

Think of it less as moving the goalposts and more of increasing the difficulty level.

[Chronos]

We had a thread once on exploiting the standard -2 sword. One of the things it's really good for is Iaijutsu Focus: Attack, drop the sword as a free action, attempt to quick-draw a different weapon, get the dropped sword instead, attack again, and so on.

[Rubik]

The latter isn't really in the spirit of the 'Use this terrible, terrible weapon and be successful with it' challenge. The former is what I have issue with.Think of it as a combination of "ToB is too easy" and this:


These kinds of threads always follow the same pattern:

OP posts challenge.
Someone succeeds.
OP says "ok, now without X".
Someone succeeds.
OP says "ok, now without Y".
.
.
.

Think of it less as moving the goalposts and more of increasing the difficulty level.In short, ToB is easy mode. It's like saying, "Kill the tarrasque with a 20th level wizard!" Just a regular build can do it without any problems at all. The point is that it's an optimization challenge. Where's the challenge if a bog-standard build can do it without any special effort at all?

[Eldan]

Honestly, my first instinct is making an unarmed character, with a level of monk if necessary, and then just attacking with your knees and elbows.

[GreenSerpent]

In short, ToB is easy mode.

Here we go then. Best non-spellcasting build minus prestige classes.

Spell-to-Power Erudite 20. After all, it's not a spellcaster. It's a manifester.

If magic-psionic transparency is in effect, Incarnate 20 or Totemist 20. They're meldshapers and aren't affected by m-p transparency.

If those are out too, Binder 20.

Now unless you're going to shift the goalposts again, I reckon I can make a build for any of these.

[Chronos]

The other part of the challenge, though, is that you're supposed to actually use this weapon, not just find ways to ignore it. Ignoring it is easy; you can just leave it in an antimagic zone and forget about it, with any build.

Hence my suggestion of repeatedly re-drawing it for use with iaijutsu focus.

[Fouredged Sword]

Ok, I am thinking any ubercharger can make this work. An arbitrary amount of damage fixes so many problems.

Also, a Pixie assassin.

[Rubik]

Here we go then. Best non-spellcasting build minus prestige classes.

Spell-to-Power Erudite 20. After all, it's not a spellcaster. It's a manifester.

If magic-psionic transparency is in effect, Incarnate 20 or Totemist 20. They're meldshapers and aren't affected by m-p transparency.

If those are out too, Binder 20.

Now unless you're going to shift the goalposts again, I reckon I can make a build for any of these.Psionics is functionally identical in-game to magic. Still counts as such.

And if you can make builds for those other classes that use the sword as your only weapon, feel free. Enjoy your -8 or more attack penalty.

[Psyren]

Just wanted to note that Spellblade doesn't work the way you think it does. It makes the wielder immune to a certain spell, but not the item itself - so while you may be immune to a dispel magic, they can simply zap your toothpick with a dispel magic, remove curse, disjunction etc. directly instead and suppress its effect that way, or simply use an untargeted Wish or Miracle to suppress it so it can be dropped.

In addition, cursed items are magic items, so an AMF will suppress it long enough for it to be disposed of.

[Rubik]

Just wanted to note that Spellblade doesn't work the way you think it does. It makes the wielder immune to a certain spell, but not the item itself - so while you may be immune to a dispel magic, they can simply zap your toothpick with a dispel magic, remove curse, disjunction etc. directly instead and suppress its effect that way, or simply use an untargeted Wish or Miracle to suppress it so it can be dropped.

In addition, cursed items are magic items, so an AMF will suppress it long enough for it to be disposed of.IIRC, magic items take on the qualities of the character wearing them. As far as the AMF goes, you're uncursed so long as you're in the AMF, but as soon as you get out...

[Ydaer Ca Noit]

Defending and spellstrike allows you to choose how much bonus you want to add to your saves/AC

[Psyren]

IIRC, magic items take on the qualities of the character wearing them.

Magic items only use the wielder's saves, and then only if those are better. They can still be targeted separately by spells that are capable of targeting objects.

Again, Spellblade says nothing about protecting the item.

Also, area spells are ignored by a spellblade, so an area dispel/disjunction will bypass it completely.



As far as the AMF goes, you're uncursed so long as you're in the AMF, but as soon as you get out...

With the curse suppressed, you can simply drop the toothpick and walk away.

[Ydaer Ca Noit]

I would make a desert kobold rogue/fighter/swashbuckler etc, with slight build http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a. Sneak attack would still apply, making it very possible for cleave to work. Morphing would make it a rapier for weapon finesse, I can't see why whirling is a bad thing either.

Also, a simple solution would be to morph it into a spiked shield :P

[The Viscount]

If you want to protect against it being removed from you, you will need stronger things than just spellblade. It's still subject to, say Relentless or Voracious Dispelling. Also not sure how a Wish turned (Su) by archmage and Supernatural Transformation interacts. Finally, why can't I just spend money to make it Sizing?

As for actually playing this, my first thought is a jermlaine with compression, underfoot combat, and confound the big folk, plus some SA.

I suppose I could make use of whirling with Tacgnol (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14723588&postcount=100), or a modified one switching out shadowblade levels for something better, but I'm not sure if I can abuse the "reach weapons double your reach" if the weapon itself is Fine. Might be a dysfunction there.

[Blackhawk748]

Rouge 3/Assassin 10/ Swashbuckler 7

Grab Craven, the TWF tree, and Daring Outlaw, now pair with another Fine Toothpick Sword and proceed to make witty comments about you opponent's mother's nocturnal activities with you

[Rubik]

Magic items only use the wielder's saves, and then only if those are better. They can still be targeted separately by spells that are capable of targeting objects.

Again, Spellblade says nothing about protecting the item.

Also, area spells are ignored by a spellblade, so an area dispel/disjunction will bypass it completely.



With the curse suppressed, you can simply drop the toothpick and walk away.You know that isn't the point of the thread, right?

[One Step Two]

Okay.

Sir Cedric the Earnest, was a wise, and confident knight, though weak in body, he was no-less devout, and on being cursed with such a dastardly toothpick, decided to wield it effectively against evil. He enlisted the service of a Wizard, friendly to his cause, and has dedicated his life to fighting evil with this most insidious Weapon!



Lesser Planetouched Aasimar Paladin 20
Notable feats:
Endurance
Weapon Finesse
Extend Spell
Persistant Spell
Divine Metamagic: Persistant spell

Str 8, Dex 8, Con 8, Int 8, Wis 20, Cha 20

Relevant expenses:

Tiny Sized Mithral Breastplate with a Locked Gauntlet, magical enchants to taste, and a matching Mithral Shield

Two castings of Polymorph Any Object from a friendly wizard.
One to turn him into a Medium sized Fey, the next casting to turn him into a Pixie.

New Stats:

Str 7, Dex 18, Con 11, Int 16, Wis 20, Cha 20

With a Wis of 20, our paladin will have Five 4th level spells at 20th.
With a Cha of 20, they have Eight turn undead attempts, enough to persist one spell: Holy Sword

Cedric Sleeps in his armour, and sword in hand. After using a custom magic item of prestidigitation to clean himself, he begins his morning prayers, and ritually casting Holy Sword on the Toothpick turning it into a +5 Holy Weapon. The Weapon is unchanged, but all the existing enchantments are now suppressed, and he uses the weapon to fight the good fight.

With the Holy Weapon effect Suppressing all of the qualities of the sword, including the Spellsword abilities, he can now be disenchanted from the weapon, but choses not to, keeping the cursed item to himself as it's safe keeper.

And For pure style points, because of his agumented size, he can now get a Silver Wyrmling Dragon as a Paladin Special Moun at approximately 9th level, with the Dragon Cohort feat.

Enjoy!

[Psyren]

You know that isn't the point of the thread, right?

Okay,

1) decurse toothpick
2) Add Sizing and other useful benefits to taste
3) Wield effectively

Better? :smalltongue:

[Crasical]

Sparrow Hengeyoukai warshaper/rogue and that one feat that lets you enter the square of a creature that's 2-sizes larger than you and make it flat-footed? You're Fine, so no problems with the sword being small, enemy is flat-footed and you can stab him repeatedly for sneak-attack damage, Warshaper lets you grow tentacles to wield the weapon in bird form and get an arbitrarily huge number of extra swings as secondary attacks. And the sword is still your 'Primary weapon' because the game defines all your natural weapons as 'secondary'.

[ShurikVch]

I'm not particularly good with melee builds, but have idea about race.
Hairy Spider, fine vermin, LA +0, smallest playable creature around.
With racial Hide +22 it will be practically invisible for all non-epic creatures.