Creating food with the wizard spell list

[Demonic_Spoon]

What it says on the tin. What are the ways a wizard can create food? Currently I have stone to flesh and summoning creatures to have them create food for you.

[ArcturusV]

Well, always Burning Hands cast on a chicken coop.

[Jeff the Green]

Prestidigitation probably can, minor creation definitely can. Both may cause cancer, though.

[Spuddles]

Polymorph any object.

Presto can most definitely not make food.

[CRtwenty]

Magnificent Mansion definitely can.
Limited Wish and Wish obviously can.
Fabricate probably can.

[Ravens_cry]

Summon Monster might. Anything that calls a real critter definitely can.:smallamused:
Fabricate would require an a Craft: Alchemy check.:smallcool:

[Jeff the Green]

Presto can most definitely not make food.

Why not? It can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. So you create an ugly baked potato. It lacks the ability to duplicate other spell effects, but if you took that to mean you can't create food with it (because that would be duplicating create food and water), you also wouldn't be able to create anything, because that would be duplicating minor creation.

[CRtwenty]

The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components.

It doesn't directly specify food. But I'd rule even if you did create something edible with it it wouldn't provide any real nutrition. You'd basically be able to create a pound of ugly sugarless candy.

[Jeff the Green]

It doesn't directly specify food. But I'd rule even if you did create something edible with it it wouldn't provide any real nutrition. You'd basically be able to create a pound of ugly sugarless candy.

It's a perfectly reasonable ruling, but it's not in the spell.

[Killer Angel]

Why not? It can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. So you create an ugly baked potato.

edible food is not an object, is non living material, as also implied by the spell itself: "It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material".

[Waspinator]

Cast "Mount" and cook the horse quickly?

[ArcturusV]

Yeah, but in game parlance things are either "Creatures" (which requires not being dead), or "Objects" (Anything else). A corpse, for example, is an object. As is a chair. A living tree would be a "Creature". A pile of firewood is an "object".

There's not really a "non living material" category, other than Object.

[Jeff the Green]

edible food is not an object, is non living material, as also implied by the spell itself: "It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material".

Sorry, you've lost me there. Why is a potato not an object?

[Killer Angel]

Yeah, but in game parlance things are either "Creatures" (which requires not being dead), or "Objects" (Anything else). A corpse, for example, is an object. As is a chair. A living tree would be a "Creature". A pile of firewood is an "object".

There's not really a "non living material" category, other than Object.

Usually, I'd agree, but since prestidigitation's text seems to do such a distinction, citing "non living material" and "objects" in different contexts, I believe it's an important point (specific trumps general, yadda yadda).

I'll try to explain:


Sorry, you've lost me there. Why is a potato not an object?

'cause "Prestidigitation can create small objects"
and You can "move, clean, or soil an object"
BUT
you can "chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material".

In this context, it seems to me that the food is implied to be a nonliving material, not an object. Although the distinction may be stupid.

[ArcturusV]

It's a weird distinction. Honestly I always figured it was for something else. Not to cover Food necessarily, but so you don't do things like make Level 1 Commoners catnip flavored for very cruel shenanigans.

[Firebug]

According to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#plantType), common plants such as trees are living objects.

[eggynack]

'cause "Prestidigitation can create small objects"
and You can "move, clean, or soil an object"
BUT
you can "chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material".

In this context, it seems to me that the food is implied to be a nonliving material, not an object. Although the distinction may be stupid.
I don't think that's the only potential reading. I think that you can consider nonliving material as a subset of objects. Thus, you'd be able to create a plant, because it's an object, but you wouldn't be able to subsequently chill, warm, or flavor that plant, because it's alive. Thus, all nonliving material is an object (maybe. I dunno if there's some really weird example of a nonliving non-object. At the very least, I'm claiming a huge overlap), but not all objects are nonliving material.

Edit: I just came up with an obvious example, which are undead and constructs. I dunno if those qualify as "nonliving material" though, even though they get the "nonliving" part down. Anyway, the idea is that there is nonliving material that is an object, and there are objects that are nonliving material. They're not perfectly distinct by any means.

[Killer Angel]

I don't think that's the only potential reading. I think that you can consider nonliving material as a subset of objects.

(snip)

Edit: I just came up with an obvious example, which are undead and constructs. I dunno if those qualify as "nonliving material" though, even though they get the "nonliving" part down. Anyway, the idea is that there is nonliving material that is an object, and there are objects that are nonliving material. They're not perfectly distinct by any means.

Could be. I'm not sure my interpretation is correct, I was only pointing out that RAW is unclear on this specific point (Wow, what a surprise! :smalltongue:)

[CRtwenty]

Could be. I'm not sure my interpretation is correct, I was only pointing out that RAW is unclear on this specific point (Wow, what a surprise! :smalltongue:)

I'd say that if you're relying on prestidigitation to provide food for your character, unclear RAW is the least of your worries.

[Jeff the Green]

I'd say that if you're relying on prestidigitation to provide food for your character, unclear RAW is the least of your worries.

Like I said, cancer. If the food manages to get incorporated into a cell, best case scenario is that it autolyses. If it gets incorporated into DNA, it'll cause gross mutations when the magic runs out and the food disappears. Gross mutations generally either cause cell death or cancer.

Of course, there's no indication in the rules that you have to actually digest the food; you only have to eat it.

[Krobar]

You can always research and write your own spells. That's what my casters do when they want something unusual.

One of them has a spell that creates a feast for up to 12, with any food items the caster wants. It's like a Heroes Feast only the food is absolutely normal, providing no magical benefits whatsoever. He also has one based on Leoumund's Secure Shelter which makes a MUCH larger, better furnished shelter, with two floors, multiple bedrooms, a large hot tub, all kinds of stuff. Of course it's an 8th level spell, too, and requires a bit of a monetary component to cast.

That guy likes to travel in style. One of his goals was to live better on the road than he could in the most expensive inn in Greyhawk.

[Chronos]

Neither Prestidigitation nor Minor Creation can practically speaking produce food, because both have limited duration. I mean, you could make food with them and eat it, but it won't be nourishing if it disappears after an hour.

Prestidigitation can, however, turn something that's technically edible but unpalatable into something you won't retch to eat. And a lot of not-food items fall into that category.

[Fizban]

How about precedent then? Can't recall the book off the top of my head, probably MiC or Arms and Equipment Guide, but there's a wondrous item that creates nutritionless snack foods at will. The spell used to create it is prestidigitation. Aside from trying to make a 0th level spell duplicate a 3rd level spell not working in the first place.

Summon Monster VI can summon a Janni, which can then use it's Create Food and Water SLA for you. Lesser Planar Binding could also do the job, but if you're got the resources to properly bind a creature you should have access to food (unless the entrance to your underground lab collapsed, trapping you inside with no spells other than LPB, in which case you should be looking for something with a teleport that works on people).

[Chronos]

Items don't always work the same way as the spells used to create them, though. I mean, it's probably a good thing that a flaming burst longsword doesn't work like Fireball.

[Vizzerdrix]

5th level spell. Leomund's Billet from Hero's of Battle can feed and house up to 40 people.


Also you can find permanent versions of the Summon monster spells in Waterdeep: City of Splendor.

Keep in mind that you can make trail bars with Craft Alchemy as well. Several kinds now that I think about it.

:annoyed::roach:

[Slipperychicken]

Cast Magic Missile to kill some birds or squirrels for dinner?

[mattie_p]

How about precedent then? Can't recall the book off the top of my head, probably MiC or Arms and Equipment Guide, but there's a wondrous item that creates nutritionless snack foods at will. The spell used to create it is prestidigitation. Aside from trying to make a 0th level spell duplicate a 3rd level spell not working in the first place.

It is not in either of those. Those contain Everfull Mug, Everlasting Feedbag, and Everlasting Rations, which require Create Water, Create Food and Water, and Create Food and Water, respectively.

Also: Arcane Disciple (or other means of getting domain spells on your list):Creation, Feat, or Gluttony domains; or Rainbow Servant would eventually net you Create Food and Water.

[Clistenes]

A classic: Use Stone to Flesh on a boulder, cook it with Burning Hands (or with a normal fire) and spice it with Prestidigitation.

Another one, for high level folks: cast Gate, call some extraplanar whales, kill them, cook and eat them (since Gate is a Calling spell, the corpses of the summoned creatures stay after death.

Or just research the spell Transmutate Earth to Bread and Transmutate Earth to Pork.

[Lateral]

Like I said, cancer. If the food manages to get incorporated into a cell, best case scenario is that it autolyses. If it gets incorporated into DNA, it'll cause gross mutations when the magic runs out and the food disappears. Gross mutations generally either cause cell death or cancer.

...I like this. Minor Creation a potato, turn it into stew, serve the stew to somebody you don't like. Presto, man dies of cancer. Untraceable (and quite painful) assassination, provided you don't mind waiting a few years for it to work.

[themourningstar]

Just out of curiosity... What type of flesh is made when you cast Stone to Flesh? I mean, are we talking chicken? Does this stuff bleed? Trying to visualize a wizard casting it on a thin wall in order to get through it.. When the barbarian rips it open, is it full of blood, or is this cooked flesh? o_O

[Ernir]

I'm not convinced that Minor Creation and its relatives are incapable of creating food. They make something you can eat, and we have rules for that. Whatever metabolization happens after that is faaar below the granularity of the game's rules, you're just playing make-believe at that point.

Anyway. Something that might work:

Cast Trollshape (PHP2), and persist it. Cut off your arm, which, if I recall my Polymorph rules correctly, instantly reverts to non-polymorphed form. FEAST ON MAN-FLESH. Your troll-arm regrows in 3d6 minutes, ready for the next dish.

You can also use Wizard casting to craft items that produce food, but that's less entertaining.

[Flickerdart]

Planar Binding to call a delicious Outsider, then kill and eat it.

[Jack_Simth]

Summon Monster might.
Summon Monster VI can summon a Janni, which can then use it's Create Food and Water SLA for you.
Cast "Mount" and cook the horse quickly?
These three don't work, due to the Summoning subschool (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning):
A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells. (Emphasis added)

So you can't eat a Summon, and if the Summon Summons something, it doesn't matter how long it would normally last - the stuff the Summons did vanishes when they do (this doesn't apply for Instant spells, of course, but the Janni's Create Food and Water spell-like ability has a listed duration).

Just out of curiosity... What type of flesh is made when you cast Stone to Flesh? I mean, are we talking chicken? Does this stuff bleed? Trying to visualize a wizard casting it on a thin wall in order to get through it.. When the barbarian rips it open, is it full of blood, or is this cooked flesh? o_O

That's sort-of answered In the Spell Description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/stoneToFlesh.htm):
The spell also can convert a mass of stone into a fleshy substance. Such flesh is inert and lacking a vital life force unless a life force or magical energy is available. (For example, this spell would turn a stone golem into a flesh golem, but an ordinary statue would become a corpse.) You can affect an object that fits within a cylinder from 1 foot to 3 feet in diameter and up to 10 feet long or a cylinder of up to those dimensions in a larger mass of stone.

[Flickerdart]

but the Janni's Create Food and Water spell-like ability has a listed duration
I am reasonably certain that "for 1 hour" refers to ethereal jaunt. Even if it refers to both spells, note what the duration on create food and water means - after it expires, the food merely becomes spoiled, it doesn't disappear.

[Chronos]

The janni still works fine. It's not a problem that his Create Food and Water spell expires, because it expired as soon as he cast it. It's instantaneous duration, not permanent.

EDIT: I just double-checked. Create Food and Water does, in fact, list a duration. Never mind, then.

Double-edit: Ninjaed.

[Flickerdart]

The janni still works fine. It's not a problem that his Create Food and Water spell expires, because it expired as soon as he cast it. It's instantaneous duration, not permanent.
Create food and water has a duration of "24 hours; see text", not "Instantaneous".

[Jack_Simth]

The janni still works fine. It's not a problem that his Create Food and Water spell expires, because it expired as soon as he cast it. It's instantaneous duration, not permanent.
It's neither. The Janni has Create Food and Water as a spell-like ability. Those function exactly as the spells unless otherwise noted. Check The Spell Description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createFoodAndWater.htm) - it's explicitly a 24 hour duration effect.
I am reasonably certain that "for 1 hour" refers to ethereal jaunt. Even if it refers to both spells, note what the duration on create food and water means - after it expires, the food merely becomes spoiled, it doesn't disappear.
... and the duration expires as soon as the Janni goes away. Which means the food stops being food.

[Flickerdart]

... and the duration expires as soon as the Janni goes away. Which means the food stops being food.
That's why you use planar binding.

[Jack_Simth]

That's why you use planar binding.
Right. You notice the segments I replied to saying that it doesn't work due to the summoning subschool were all Summoning spells, rather than calling spells?

[Rativohra]

Well, always Burning Hands cast on a chicken coop.

[aglondier]

Create portable hole with two exits (portable tunnel), keep one end open at home/favourite restaurant, open it up as needed to request servants/restaurateur provide a meal. Done.

[Zaq]

I assume "hack additional spells onto the wizard spell list" is not the same thing as using the wizard spell list itself, right? Because that seems like the easiest way to get it before prohibitively high level. Use Arcane Disciple (CDiv) or something.

If we're being cheeky and not actually practical, wall of salt (Sandstorm) technically creates food. Not food that most critters can survive on solely, but salt is undeniably food.

Naturally, limited wish can do it, either by simply mimicking create food and water or by doing its own thing. Awfully expensive meal though.

If we count spells that are on the sorcerer list and not the wizard list and also take the problem as "feed self" rather than "create food out of nothingness," primal instinct (Dragon Magic) offers a +5 bonus on Survival checks, which would help a lot when foraging. Coulda sworn there's a lower-level spell that also gives a bonus to arbitrary skill checks but I can't find it right now.

It's actually pretty impressive how solidly WotC stuck to this apparently unwritten rule that making food is a divine caster's job and not a wizard's job. Probably because characters are expected to not need to care about food after low/mid levels, so there's fewer spells that involve food at all, thereby giving them fewer chances to break the unwritten rule. (Contrast with the several sorcerer or wizard spells that do increase your HP total, even though "healing is the divine caster's job" is another unwritten rule. See light of Venya (SpC) and undying vigor of the dragon lords (Dragon Magic) for two examples.)

It's a cleric spell rather than a wizard spell, but if you make a sandwich, eat it except for the crust, and cast make whole on the sandwich, would that give you the sandwich back? Or cast it on the bone after you eat a cooked turkey drumstick or something...

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: never mind food, what about creating Necrothreads?