Certain Features Excluded

[hobbitkniver]

So in the game I just started, our party has a fighter, cleric, rogue and sorcerer (wizard wasn't allowed). Our DM has decided that feats and skills will not be in the game. Additionally, he doesn't know what touch or flat footed AC is either, so we can count that out. Attacks of opportunity, exact placement during battle, flanking, bull rush, etc. are also out.

But what I can't figure out is which characters are going to be damaged the most by this. We're at level one and we don't have any equipment except for one staff each and 2 daggers between the party.

Edit: It should be noted that the rogue can use all of his regular abilities, but success is determined with only the d20 and no modifiers.

[Flickerdart]

Considering that the only class features a fighter gets are feats, and rogue is the archetypal "skill monkey", those two may as well not be playing the game. The Sorcerer and Cleric won't care.

[Hammerpriest]

Also, take some time and get your DM to really read the rules of 3.5, even if it is only core. If for some reason not having the core books is an issue, there's always the option to convert to Pathfinder where everything is OGL. Without feats, skills, maneuvers, differing ACs, tactical combat, AoOs, or even equipment you're not really even playing D&D anymore.

Although to answer your question: The full casters will be perfectly fine.

[Grayson01]

Yeah Fighter just an NPC Warrior now pretty much, and Rouge no Flanking, No Skills, no Flatfooted AC and yeah the rouge is pretty much worthless now...

[Chronos]

Basically, your DM has houseruled that no classes exist except spellcasters. While a skilled DM can make this work, with an inexperienced DM, the game is probably just come crashing to the ground in some horrible way.

And of course, if he's ignorant about the things you mentioned, he's probably ignorant about a good many things about spells, too, that you just don't realize he's ignorant about yet.

I very strongly recommend that someone else volunteer to DM instead.

[hobbitkniver]

Basically, your DM has houseruled that no classes exist except spellcasters. While a skilled DM can make this work, with an inexperienced DM, the game is probably just come crashing to the ground in some horrible way.

And of course, if he's ignorant about the things you mentioned, he's probably ignorant about a good many things about spells, too, that you just don't realize he's ignorant about yet.

I very strongly recommend that someone else volunteer to DM instead.

Well, we're not really allowed to use most spells. Anything that uses a touch attack, requires a saving throw or basically isn't magic missile.

It's actually odd because right now, the fighter is the most useful member of the party. He can do more damage than anyone else and damage is all anyone can do really.

[Hammerpriest]

Well, we're not really allowed to use most spells. Anything that uses a touch attack, requires a saving throw or basically isn't magic missile.

It's actually odd because right now, the fighter is the most useful member of the party. He can do more damage than anyone else and damage is all anyone can do really.

If he's the only one who owns the books, try and convince him to actually learn the rules. If not, start a new campaign on the side where he isn't the DM. I mean it really says a lot when someone guts 3.5 by 90% of its content and expects it to run fine crunch wise.

[Svata]

Yeah, that game is borked.

[Nettlekid]

Sorry, but with the list of things you've excluded...WHAT'S LEFT? Few to no spells. No flanking or flat-footed, so no sneak attack for the rogue. No feats for the fighter, so no special techniques, nor can he even try them since they're out. Are you actually just going up the enemies and rolling a d20 repeatedly? What's left in the campaign?

[eggynack]

This all seems rather on the crazy, or possibly dumb, side of things. I mean, I guess if you're just playing a freeform roleplaying thing, it's probably fine, but you're in a rules heavy system, so you should probably be using some rules. Perhaps you should push your DM towards a less rules heavy system, so that there wouldn't be as many rules. In any case, I'd still probably play a wizarding type in that kinda game. Just cast some of the amazing spells that don't have saving throws or attack rolls. It's not the longest list, but there's a list. Start with buff spells, continue onward with summons, and finish with some instantaneous conjurations of the wall or fog variety. You can't use sickening fog, because of the save, but solid fog is fair game. So, you could probably do well as a caster, but this is hyper dumb.

[Fax Celestis]

...your DM would probably be better served with something like Amber, honestly. He sounds like he's concerned with getting bogged down in rules (or not wanting to bother to learn them), so he'd probably be better off with a ruleset that has as little as possible.

Either that or he's substituted 'being random' for 'having a personality'. :smallannoyed:

[hobbitkniver]

Sorry, but with the list of things you've excluded...WHAT'S LEFT? Few to no spells. No flanking or flat-footed, so no sneak attack for the rogue. No feats for the fighter, so no special techniques, nor can he even try them since they're out. Are you actually just going up the enemies and rolling a d20 repeatedly? What's left in the campaign?

Yeah, that's basically what the combat consists of. Everything else is either pure luck with an unmodified d20 roll or is solved without any class abilities or rolling.


This all seems rather on the crazy, or possibly dumb, side of things. I mean, I guess if you're just playing a freeform roleplaying thing, it's probably fine, but you're in a rules heavy system, so you should probably be using some rules.

It's sort of free form roleplaying in that a lot of it is just saying what you're doing, but there is no roleplaying because there is no story and all the npcs are just annoyances to deter our success or serve no purpose at all.

[eggynack]

It's sort of free form roleplaying in that a lot of it is just saying what you're doing, but there is no roleplaying because there is no story and all the npcs are just annoyances to deter our success or serve no purpose at all.
So, it's bad, is what you're saying. Seriously, if you're not following a complex narrative, and if you're not engaging in the highly tactical nature of combat, he better have a pretty good selection of snacks on game day. Like, he's gotta have seriously delicious homemade food, or else you could just go out and get it yourself.

[Der_DWSage]

So in the game I just started, our party has a fighter, cleric, rogue and sorcerer (wizard wasn't allowed). Our DM has decided that feats and skills will not be in the game. Additionally, he doesn't know what touch or flat footed AC is either, so we can count that out. Attacks of opportunity, exact placement during battle, flanking, bull rush, etc. are also out.

But what I can't figure out is which characters are going to be damaged the most by this. We're at level one and we don't have any equipment except for one staff each and 2 daggers between the party.

Edit: It should be noted that the rogue can use all of his regular abilities, but success is determined with only the d20 and no modifiers.

I...what. Just what. I can't...I don't even...blurgle?

Combined with no spells besides Magic Missile...is he just spiting you, at this point? Is he really just hoping that no one will come to the next session? Because this is what it sounds like. Everyone is equally useless, aside from the Rogue, who is now completely useless.

Tell him to go with a rules-lite system like The Window or something. D&D is exactly the wrong kind of system to use with this, as there's far too much in the realm of variance to be at all competent anymore.

[Hammerpriest]

It's sort of free form roleplaying in that a lot of it is just saying what you're doing, but there is no roleplaying because there is no story and all the npcs are just annoyances to deter our success or serve no purpose at all.

If I were you, I'd pick up a pedometer. That way you can look at some real numbers while you walk away from that train wreck.

[hobbitkniver]

So, it's bad, is what you're saying. Seriously, if you're not following a complex narrative, and if you're not engaging in the highly tactical nature of combat, he better have a pretty good selection of snacks on game day. Like, he's gotta have seriously delicious homemade food, or else you could just go out and get it yourself.

We actually had a terrible time trying to get people to pay attention. Everyone was surfing the internet on their phone.


I...what. Just what. I can't...I don't even...blurgle?

Combined with no spells besides Magic Missile...is he just spiting you, at this point? Is he really just hoping that no one will come to the next session? Because this is what it sounds like. Everyone is equally useless, aside from the Rogue, who is now completely useless.

Tell him to go with a rules-lite system like The Window or something. D&D is exactly the wrong kind of system to use with this, as there's far too much in the realm of variance to be at all competent anymore.

There seems to be a huge focus on the characters being exactly the same outside of combat and the "puzzles" don't require any sort of abilities, only saying "I examine X".

[eggynack]

We actually had a terrible time trying to get people to pay attention. Everyone was surfing the internet on their phone.



There seems to be a huge focus on the characters being exactly the same outside of combat and the "puzzles" don't require any sort of abilities, only saying "I examine X".
It's like, you keep describing this game, and it inexplicably keeps getting worse and worse. You should maybe play a different game, whether that means renegotiating the terms of this game, or switching the DM for someone else, or running away as fast as is physically possible. You haven't listed a single redeeming quality that this game possesses, and I'm inclined to think that it doesn't have one.

[hobbitkniver]

It's like, you keep describing this game, and it inexplicably keeps getting worse and worse. You should maybe play a different game, whether that means renegotiating the terms of this game, or switching the DM for someone else, or running away as fast as is physically possible. You haven't listed a single redeeming quality that this game possesses, and I'm inclined to think that it doesn't have one.

The DnD is pretty bad, but the people are much easier to handle than most of the people I know that play DnD.

[Hammerpriest]

The DnD is pretty bad, but the people are much easier to handle than most of the people I know that play DnD.

So you want to play DnD, but not with the people you're not too fond of. You're not sure if the DM is willing to learn the rules or even write a campaign properly, and you know no one is really having any fun. So let me ask you this; why not just volunteer yourself as DM and help ease them into real DnD?

[Svata]

Or look online for a game. Here, or Mythweavers if you don't mind PbP, or Roll20 if you do.

[Der_DWSage]

There seems to be a huge focus on the characters being exactly the same outside of combat and the "puzzles" don't require any sort of abilities, only saying "I examine X".

Ooooooh. You should've told us you were playing 4th edition!

[Gildedragon]

Tempted to make an unkind remark regarding the nature of the DM... But I will resist.

What I will recommend is you offer to DM. You might get stuck to the chair for some time but its allright.
Read the rules and pick a manegable subset. Learn it. ask questions anout it.
Some options:
Drop prepared casters in favor of spontaneous casters.
If people want a low power campaign: npc classes

Keep the pace brisk; drop minis from the game unless you really like them.
Prep before the game

And for hextor's sake, take over DMing. At that rate the only playable classes will be the barbarian (and monster classes now that I think about it)

[Chronos]

We actually had a terrible time trying to get people to pay attention.
Pay attention to what? If people had their Internet-enabled phones/tablets with them, those were the only thing to pay attention to, because there certainly wasn't any game there for them to be ignoring.

[mabriss lethe]

It sounds like Risus (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm) would be a better fit for this game than D&D.

[Rhynn]

So in the game I just started, our party has a fighter, cleric, rogue and sorcerer (wizard wasn't allowed). Our DM has decided that feats and skills will not be in the game. Additionally, he doesn't know what touch or flat footed AC is either, so we can count that out. Attacks of opportunity, exact placement during battle, flanking, bull rush, etc. are also out.

But what I can't figure out is which characters are going to be damaged the most by this. We're at level one and we don't have any equipment except for one staff each and 2 daggers between the party.

Edit: It should be noted that the rogue can use all of his regular abilities, but success is determined with only the d20 and no modifiers.

Your DM should be running a different edition of D&D, maybe AD&D or B/X. Check out the links in my sig; the first explains what each D&D retroclone is based on. Most of the games are free to try out. Your DM should do that, if your group is willing to play them.

Otherwise, player coup, depose DM, institute new DM.

[Blackhawk748]

My brain hurts from reading this.

If you DM (i feel like he doesnt deserve the title) doesnt like all those pesky rules and that battle grid thing, i recommend he look at World of Darkness, theres no classes, no battle grid and the rules are pretty freakin easy to understand. Oh and its the only game i know of that says if there is a rule in the way of the story chuck it!

[Studoku]

Start your own d&d group. With blackjack and hookers.

[JusticeZero]

Yea, run your own game. That way, when you get tired and someone else runs, people know how to play.

[Kristinn]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzt9rtupsq1r5jtugo1_400.png

You're not playing 3.5 anymore, or even DnD at all. No feats, no class features (except for Rage I guess) and no spells except Magic Missile. (I seriously doubt any positioning is tracked for Solid Fog to have any application.)

Just get out of that game, start one with you as DM if you feel like it.

Weirdest sh*t I've heard all weed.