TOB healing maneuvers and constructs

[Yogibear41]

Do the TOB healing maneuvers such as the healing portion of crusaders strike work on constructs that are normally immune to healing spells?

Also can one benefit from the Vital recovery feat?

[Bakkan]

I'm 99.6% certain the healing maneuvers work on constructs (and undead, for that matter). They're (Ex) abilities, and not spells, and not even positive energy, so there's nothing in the construct or undead types that would casue them to balk at the healing. That is, unless there's some construct or something out there with text that says "this creature can never gain hit points".

[ThermalSlapShot]

The healing from the ToB is not "Conjuration: Healing" but just additional HP. There is no rule that I've known of that stops healing (look at the repair line of wizard spells) on constructs but ONLY conjuration healing is at half efficiency.

If a DM rules otherwise... Well I hate to see all their other houserules.

[avr]

If the construct's description says something like 'A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.' then I could see the ToB maneuvers not helping. Otherwise they should be good to go.

[togapika]

It seems like they should work just fine, especially since much of the TOB healing seems less like actual healing spells, and more things like healing damage through morale and such.

[Wings of Peace]

The ToB maneuvers do in fact work normally on constructs. Some DMs will give you a weird look for it but it's 100% legit.

[TuggyNE]

If the construct's description says something like 'A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.' then I could see the ToB maneuvers not helping. Otherwise they should be good to go.

That's the default for all constructs, actually. Yet, somehow, the repair X damage spells exist. Therefore, that doesn't limit ways to repair constructs, just gives the most basic one.

[Chronos]

All of them will work on constructs except the highest-level one, Strike of Righteous Vitality, which specifically says that it works "as Heal".

[gooddragon1]

That is actually not the quirkiest thing about tob healing... (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232171)

[Rubik]

All of them will work on constructs except the highest-level one, Strike of Righteous Vitality, which specifically says that it works "as Heal".Actually, constructs heal just fine from it. Even golems, due to it being a Su ability (which does not allow for spell resistance and therefore bypasses magic immunity).

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing preventing constructs from being healed via positive energy.

[Deophaun]

That is actually not the quirkiest thing about tob healing... (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232171)
I've actually found that to be good RP fodder. Someone wants to engage in the 15-minute workday because they got banged up? The Crusader lays into him, calling him a coward while raining punches down upon him. Someone dropped into negatives? The Crusader pounds on his fallen comrade's chest; "Live, damn you! Live!"

Used judiciously, it's quite flavorful.

[Chronos]

...Huh. Rubik appears to be right: I can't see anything in Heal that says it doesn't work against constructs. Though Warforged (and other living constructs) still have the specific clause that they only heal half normal, and the way that's phrased would appear to apply to all of the Crusader's healing.

On the other hand, though, it looks like a generic non-magic-immune construct like a homunculus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/homunculus.htm) or shield guardian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shieldGuardian.htm) can benefit from all sorts of healing, at full effectiveness.

[Bakkan]

Living constructs only heal half normal from spells of the healing subschool. None of the Crusader's maneuvers are spells, and hence that clause doessn't apply. Warforged get full benefit.

[TuggyNE]

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing preventing constructs from being healed via positive energy.

Most Conjuration (Healing) spells target living creatures and undead only, which prevents their use on (most) constructs. However, heal does not seem to have that sort of clause.

That's right folks, in a Core-only game you can fix up your homunculus or shield guardian with heal!

[Jack_Simth]

That's the default for all constructs, actually. Yet, somehow, the repair X damage spells exist. Therefore, that doesn't limit ways to repair constructs, just gives the most basic one.
Almost; that was a quote from the Simulacrum spell, as nearly as I can tell. The one for constructs (found under Craft Construct) goes:

A creature with this feat can repair constructs that have taken damage. In one day of work, the creature can repair up to 20 points of damage by expending 50 gp per point of damage repaired. - as opposed to the segment of the construct type:
Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.

[Rubik]

- as opposed to the segment of the construct type:

Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.Well, it says they can be repaired and cannot heal damage on their own. However, that doesn't preclude other forms of magical healing.

Like Heal.

[Jack_Simth]

Well, it says they can be repaired and cannot heal damage on their own. However, that doesn't preclude other forms of magical healing.

Like Heal.

Did I disagree with that statement somewhere?:smallconfused:

[Rubik]

Did I disagree with that statement somewhere?:smallconfused:For some reason, I had it in my head that you had. I reread your post and it turns out you didn't. My apologies.

[Chronos]

Quoth Bakkan:

Living constructs only heal half normal from spells of the healing subschool. None of the Crusader's maneuvers are spells, and hence that clause doessn't apply. Warforged get full benefit.

From the Eberron Campaign Setting (emphasis mine):

However, spells from the healing subschool and supernatural abilities that cure hit point damage or ability damage provide only half their normal effect to a warforged.

[lsfreak]

From the Eberron Campaign Setting (emphasis mine):

The crusader's healing maneuvers are not Supernatural.

[TuggyNE]

From the Eberron Campaign Setting (emphasis mine):

But aren't those maneuvers pretty much all Ex? :smallconfused: Of course, that's another good reason why they should be marked Su.

[Bakkan]

Huh, I wonder why they dropped the text about supernatural abilities in MM3? In any case, it still doesn't matter since the healing abilities are (Ex), not (Su), as lsfreak and tuggyne have pointed out.