Make a Moment Last Forever

[unseenmage]

Before I begin I assure you my DM endorses this idea (was his idea even). Also, we're using the (house?)rule that extradimensional spaces adopt the gravity and time traits of wherever they're opened and, if closed, retain those traits until they're opened again.

I was looking just to build a custom item combining a simple mundane treasure chest or trunk or box with Quintessence (EPH 128).
Then I stumbled across the Nondimensional Trunk (AaEG 50).

I debated combining the two when I realized that, for an extradimensional space at least Time Stop would be the more appropriate spell. Quintessence would reasonably only affect the plane it is actually on.
eg: Dipping a Bag of Holding into a Quintessence vat would keep that pesky Artificer Sovereign Glued to it, who was attempting to Retain Essence it, timelocked but the Dedicated Wright within would just keep on keeping on because it is in a demiplane literally a world away from the effects of the Quintessence vat on the Bag.
I did some experimental calculations and am now stuck.

The prices and some reasoning. (probably wrong, it wouldn't be the first time)
- Nondimensional trunk with a Quintessence component
- 63,000gp

- Nondimensional Trunk with a Time Stop component
- 2,463,000gp

- a traditional treasure chest simply lined with a contiguous layer of Quintessence would cost less than the same box designed to truly immerse it's contents in Quintessence.
- a Magic Item version of said box would utilize it's "magic" to keep the volume of Quintessence within the box stable regardless of what else you put in or removed from the box.
- a truly "mundane" version of the box would involve simply multiplying the volume of Quintessence created by a single casting by the volume of the box but is an untenable solution for many reasons, thus the search for a Custom Magic Item solution.
I'm torn between the two costs as I don't want to undercost what could be a powerful item, but I also don't want to knee-jerk use the higher cost as it is substantial.
On top of that I'm now doubting the cheese level of even my initial idea of a Quintessence lined mundane box.

Is a box that locks it's contents in one moment of time too extraordinarily OP Playground? Or am I overreacting?
Additionally which price would be the more appropriate for the Nondimensional Trunk of Anti-Time? How much should the mundane version cost?

I'm unaware if there even is an existing item to compare this to for the "art" of Custom Magic Item creation.

[NEO|Phyte]

Despite the name, Time Stop isn't really an applicable spell, it doesn't actually interfere with time, it just makes you go at ludicrous speed for a bit.

[unseenmage]

Despite the name, Time Stop isn't really an applicable spell, it doesn't actually interfere with time, it just makes you go at ludicrous speed for a bit.

I agree with your assessment strictly speaking however, for item creation purposes sometime the most thematic spell is the appropriate one. That was my reasoning here.

Edit: forgot quote, sorry.

[Emperor Tippy]

Cast Arcane Genesis, set the time trait to 1 second passing on that plane for every hundred trillion years on the prime material.

Use Planar Pocket or Planar Bubble and travel to said plane. Use Animate Object+Awaken Construct to create a Colossal Awakened Animated Ball. Give it the feat Permanent Emanation: Planar Bubble (have it keep it turned off). Use a power stone of augmented Compression to drop it two size catagories. Create an Ice Assassin of it. Use another Augmented Compression to drop the Ice Assassin two size categories. Create an Ice Assassin of that. Do the last two steps again and then follow it up with a regular Compression and a finial Ice Assassin.

You now have a forever Fine sized 32 HD creature with your time locked demiplane as its home plane.

Use Wish to create an automatic resetting trap of Ice Assassin of the Fine sized IA sphere. Put said trap into your bag of holding or other carrying device.
Go adventuring.

When you don't like something pull out one of your spheres and throw it at the enemy. Your trap produces 14,400 per day. Each one of them can free action activate their Permanent Emanation: Planar Bubble to make everything within a 10 foot radius share all of the planar traits of its home plane.

You now have time lock grenades by the RAW. Once you are trapped the only way out in a reasonable amount of time is to have someone outside the area free you.

[jindra34]

Tippy: Not to interfere with your win and all, but what stops you from getting time locked when you pull them out?

[Emperor Tippy]

Tippy: Not to interfere with your win and all, but what stops you from getting time locked when you pull them out?

Ice Assassin has a mental link to their creator that they must obey and can activate (or deactivate) its Permanent Emanation as a free action.

Throw it and order it to activate when you want it to.

It's a great way to keep food from spoiling.

[unseenmage]

Tippy: I'm also a little shaky about the idea that by RAW the caster of Awaken gets to choose feats for the subject. You don't craft it or create it's mind or abilities, you simply imbue it with ability scores.
Though if it were amenable (and by RAW it will be) you could ask it to take a feat I suppose.


Also, though cool, the time lock grenades aren't very helpful. It's the math of the prices I'm confused about and, funny as it would be, I didn't intend to hurl open boxes of time-lock at my enemies.

As usual you've presented a very cool idea though.

PS. The transportation clause of Wish, cast by an ally of the victim, will probably free a trapped victim too as it functions regardless of planar traits, unless I'm mistaken.

Does this trick technically stop Contingency shenanigans? I don't see the Contingency being able to do anything unless the trigger event was "having a Tippy grenade thrown at you".


Edit: I just realized that this line in my OP:

On top of that I'm now doubting the cheese level of even my initial idea of a Quintessence lined mundane box.
could be interpreted as my worrying that the idea wasn't cheesey ENOUGH rather than my worrying that it was too cheesey.

I'll have to remember that Tippy reads these things on occasion from now on. :smallsmile:

[Emperor Tippy]

Tippy: I'm also a little shaky about the idea that by RAW the caster of Awaken gets to choose feats for the subject. You don't craft it or create it's mind or abilities, you simply imbue it with ability scores.
Though if it were amenable (and by RAW it will be) you could ask it to take a feat I suppose.
Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos or Psychic Reformation. Can be done to the first Ice Assassin if you want.


Also, though cool, the time lock grenades aren't very helpful. It's the math of the prices I'm confused about and, funny as it would be, I didn't intend to hurl open boxes of time-lock at my enemies.
...Drop one in a Bag of Holding and have it activate. You now have a Time Locked bag.


PS. The transportation clause of Wish, cast by an ally of the victim, will probably free a trapped victim too as it functions regardless of planar traits, unless I'm mistaken.
Yes, that is the standard way out of time locked prison planes and similar things.


Does this trick technically stop Contingency shenanigans? I don't see the Contingency being able to do anything unless the trigger event was "having a Tippy grenade thrown at you".
Depends on the specific contingency and DM adjudication for the timing on Contingency effects.

[unseenmage]

Quote:
Does this trick technically stop Contingency shenanigans? I don't see the Contingency being able to do anything unless the trigger event was "having a Tippy grenade thrown at you".
Depends on the specific contingency and DM adjudication for the timing on Contingency effects.

Darn. Was kinda hoping there was a baseline for this sort of thing. Craft Contingent spells is next on my list of item creation cheese to wrap my head around.

[Jack_Simth]

Oh, and here I was thinking I'd see an Elan Psion/Metamind build with both Temporal Acceleration and Temporal Reiteration (Complete Psionic). Font of Power to have unlimited power points for a minute, Temporal Acceleration to get a spare round, and then repeated instances of Temporal Reiteration to keep everything going.

[Kazyan]

Tippy, save three Ice Assassin steps by using a power stone of StP Minute Form at ML 20 instead of Compression iterations.

[Emperor Tippy]

Tippy, save three Ice Assassin steps by using a power stone of StP Minute Form at ML 20 instead of Compression iterations.

True, that works.

For extra fun, have Ice Assassin on your Psion.

Have an StP Erudite take a Sanctum Ice Assassin and then transfer it over. Spend 2 PP and you get to ignore the material component. ;)

[Kazyan]

We just don't want to dispose of more extraneous murderous deathballs than we have to.

For extreme fun, store all of your excess time lock grenades in a demiplane, by keeping a ring gate in the bag where your trap is and the other in the demiplane. You want to do this to keep your bag from overflowing, anyway. After some time of trap runoff, you will have a demiplane ball pit.

Demiplane. Ball pit.

:smallbiggrin:

[Emperor Tippy]

We just don't want to dispose of more extraneous murderous deathballs than we have to.

For extreme fun, store all of your excess time lock grenades in a demiplane, by keeping a ring gate in the bag where your trap is and the other in the demiplane. You want to do this to keep your bag from overflowing, anyway. After some time of trap runoff, you will have a demiplane ball pit.

Demiplane. Ball pit.

:smallbiggrin:

That is why you include an off switch on your "trap".

My preferred approach is using a belt of many pockets with the "trap" set to activate on the opening of a specific one of the pockets. Easy unlimited grenades.

[Jack_Simth]

Use Wish to create an automatic resetting trap of Ice Assassin of the Fine sized IA sphere.Potential problem: What do you do if/when the DM in question decides that the trap itself counts as the creator of the Ice Assassin, rather than you? This would leave you with a neigh-endless string of critters that don't necessarily care about you.

Mindrape the original before copying?


Use a power stone of augmented Compression to drop it two size catagories. Create an Ice Assassin of it. Use another Augmented Compression to drop the Ice Assassin two size categories. Create an Ice Assassin of that. Do the last two steps again and then follow it up with a regular Compression and a finial Ice Assassin.

You now have a forever Fine sized 32 HD creature with your time locked demiplane as its home plane.

Additional potential complication: There is an underlying assumption here that any effect on the original is reproduced on the Ice Assassin in an instantaneous manner. What is your fallback if the DM uses a different underlying assumption?

[Emperor Tippy]

Potential problem: What do you do if/when the DM in question decides that the trap itself counts as the creator of the Ice Assassin, rather than you? This would leave you with a neigh-endless string of critters that don't necessarily care about you.

Mindrape the original before copying?

Well yes. But what the trap is copying are also Ice Assassins, but that is the most debatable part.



Additional potential complication: There is an underlying assumption here that any effect on the original is reproduced on the Ice Assassin in an instantaneous manner. What is your fallback if the DM uses a different underlying assumption?

RAW it's how it works. IA being instantaneous.

[Seffbasilisk]

Why not have the quintessence covered in Unguent of Timelessness?

Edit for Tippy: When inside the bubble, how do the ice-assassins turn it off? Even if you communicate mentally (sound waves not traveling fast enough in that sphere to make contact for centuries) to a mind dealing at that levels, the 'turn it on'/'turnitoff' would be nigh instantaneous. How long is that maintainable?

[unseenmage]

Why not have the quintessence covered in Unguent of Timelessness?

I don't understand what you're suggesting.
From my reading of the Quintessence power the dollop it creates doesn't expire already. That and the dollop is not matter that was once alive.

[dascarletm]

Make sure you have the Xtrillion billion years to build/cast all the requisite spells in your demiplane when setting this up. (you may be fighting Mechs and aliens when you finish building your time grenades.)

EDIT: wait... planar bubble. nvm

[Emperor Tippy]

Edit for Tippy: When inside the bubble, how do the ice-assassins turn it off? Even if you communicate mentally (sound waves not traveling fast enough in that sphere to make contact for centuries) to a mind dealing at that levels, the 'turn it on'/'turnitoff' would be nigh instantaneous. How long is that maintainable?

It's a free action. By RAW its instant. By sanity tou just cast Planar Bubble yourself and walk in, shutting it down that way.