Lineage and inheritance in a world with multiple races

[Nich_Critic]

I'm looking to set up a political campaign, and I need some advice on how to manage the usual tropes with the realities of the differences between dnd races

Historically, alliances between noble houses were frequently secured by marriage. However, this doesn't really work if one of the noble houses is made up of warforged, and another made up of vampires. Or, if one of the houses is primarily elves, and the other human, are their half elf children treated with enough respect to inherit? (I suppose this is a campaign detail, but I feel like under that system, there would be a lot more half elves, and much fewer pure elves and pure humans).

Mostly what I'm wondering is what other ways ties could be made between powerful families when marriage and children aren't necessarily an option?

[TheStranger]

Fostering each other's children is the first thing that comes to mind. Maybe not appropriate for vampires and warforged, and a little problematic when that's a 100-year commitment for the human side of the human-elf treaty, but you could probably make it work. Or a close family member could join the court of the other side in some capacity, which would serve more or less the same purpose.

[Slipperychicken]

I imagine that noble houses, unless they were extraordinarily racist, would accept mixed-race children (especially those who secure powerful alliances or inheritances) for the good of the house.

Outside of children, I imagine they could do a joint-ventures sort of thing, where they would both invest in the same enterprise.

Vampires could arrange to willingly infect others and effectively assimilate others into the clan.

Warforged could still marry, but no biological children would result. If they really needed to, they could adopt a child and designate it as the heir.

[Talderas]

Mostly what I'm wondering is what other ways ties could be made between powerful families when marriage and children aren't necessarily an option?

Ransom. No really. One way that alliances were secured in old times was to offer one of your children to the group you're making an alliance.

[TheStranger]

[thread hijack] How does a noble family of warforged work, anyway? Can you make warforged that are "related" to each other? [/hijack]

[Andezzar]

It is always problematic for immortal beings to sire children because they do not die of natural causes and thus the only possibility for the progeny to advance in the hierarchy is to remove their progenitors. Well that and that the progenitors abdicate, but why would an immortal being do that.


Fostering each other's children is the first thing that comes to mind.Fostering? Most of us have seen how well that worked out in Game of Thrones, for the ward as well as the foster family.


Maybe not appropriate for vampires and warforged, and a little problematic when that's a 100-year commitment for the human side of the human-elf treaty, but you could probably make it work.IIRC elves physically mature roughly in the same time as humans, it is just their society that only grants them full rights at 100. When Drizzt left the Underdark I think he was in his twenties.


Or a close family member could join the court of the other side in some capacity, which would serve more or less the same purpose.Now why would you invite a potential wolf in sheep's clothing into your court? I mean with power not as a guest.

[Arcanist]

Historically, alliances between noble houses were frequently secured by marriage. However, this doesn't really work if one of the noble houses is made up of warforged, and another made up of vampires.

For long lived creatures, you would generally expect for these house leaders to maintain power for a limited term (like a single Human lifetime). These alliances can be maintained through marriage all the same since, I'd imagine, that it would still be "Till death do we part." A Warforged can marry a Vampire with there being no problem.


Or, if one of the houses is primarily elves, and the other human, are their half elf children treated with enough respect to inherit? (I suppose this is a campaign detail, but I feel like under that system, there would be a lot more half elves, and much fewer pure elves and pure humans).

In most settings, Humans are always the most populous of the races (for some reason) so no worries there. Elves can be long lived and might not have good enough reason to produce Elven children unless prompted to do so; An Elven generation can last quite a while. Half-Elves can be treated as whichever society they wish to inhabit with minor discrimination. I mostly look at it as our real world society, some people like mixed breeding and others don't with the ones not in favor of it being the minority (This is of course from my experience).


Mostly what I'm wondering is what other ways ties could be made between powerful families when marriage and children aren't necessarily an option?

Marriage and children are always an option. Warforged can make custom individuals to suit their purposes (So they wouldn't have an upper or lower class, each exist for their created purpose), Vampires might be a little more reserved to sell off their pure children and might breed Half-Vampire children to sell off their children for the sake of political ends.

Ties can be made through hostage or children exchange, information exchange or, my personal favorite, friendship. I'd also like to note that just because Vampires drink blood and eat souls, does not mean they must be anti-social monsters who want to consume blood by the ocean full. Sometimes they can be calm and reasonable :smalltongue: Warforged in your world, might just be called "Forged" since, if this is a political campaign they might not be warriors or fighters or the like.

[CRtwenty]

For long lived races like Elves and Dwarves you probably wouldn't see ties by marriage, but instead those Houses would send members of their families to other Houses as "Advisors" and "Tutors". Sharing some of their knowledge instead of their blood. It wouldn't be uncommon to have an Elvish or Dwarven Wizard supplying arcane protection and teaching magic to suitable members of another House. Or providing their children a first hand view of History.

Each House would handle mixed blood differently I'd imagine. Some would welcome them, others would consider them unpure and keep them from advancing into Leadership positions.

[BowStreetRunner]

The concepts of Fostering and Ransom are not very far off the mark, actually. Back during the days of the Roman Empire, sons of the rulers of neighboring areas were often 'fostered' in Rome. This was described on the surface as an alliance-promoting deal, but in fact it was more like hostage-taking. (Think Theon Greyjoy being raised by Eddard Stark.) In fact, Attila the Hun may have spent part of his childhood in Rome. The exchanging of ambassadors and hostages was a time-honored tradition to secure peace during this period of history.

[Gildedragon]

Despite the spectacularly bad result in GoT fostering was a standard medieval practice with children as young as 7 (around the time a commoner would begin learning a trade)
Fostering allowed for a stronger noble to keep vassals in check with an effective hostage, and provided the children with potential future alliances and resources.

As for noble families of immortals: they pro'lly have a different social structure. Ambassador exchanges might be the way to go.
Maybe exchange of holy relics or the like

[TheStranger]

Fostering? Most of us have seen how well that worked out in Game of Thrones, for the ward as well as the foster family.
The series is set in a time period where everything goes to hell in a handbasket. Presumably, there are other instances where it hasn't ended badly, or they wouldn't still be doing it. And, as noted, there's some historical precedent.


Now why would you invite a potential wolf in sheep's clothing into your court? I mean with power not as a guest.
Again, the exchange would go both ways - I'm envisioning it as analogous to fostering, for the races where fostering has logistical problems. If you don't trust them, you don't trust them, but your nephew/cousin/least favorite brother in-law is in their court as well. Since their hostage is probably going to get about the same treatment as yours, you've got to at least pretend to respect the "potential wolf." If they're trustworthy, they might have something to offer. Or they're just a respected "guest" and they drink your wine and act as an ambassador while you keep an eye on them.

I'm not saying there's no potential for things to go badly with either arrangement. But really, it's probably not substantially more or less risky than marrying your children off to your enemy.

[Avaris]

The suggestions so far have been mostly physical, but remember this is D&D, so it could be a magically sealed alliance/contract, with penalties for those who willfully break it?

Not sure what the penalties would be: mental or physical impact on the head of the trade house maybe, or blanket impact on their holdings (plague of rats anyone?)I think it would work best if it required the head of the wronged house to officially declare that the contract has been violated and so activate their half of the magic. This way, everyone would know why and how the contract was broken (I imagine society would place great importance on them, and they would only actually be activated rarely) and it allows for sneakiness by assasination or stealing the relevant magical item required to activate the curse.

Also means that long lived families may have hundreds of old contracts which haven't been inforced, and may have been forgotten about. Say a human house and an elven house enter into an agreement, then a few hundred years down the line the descendents of the human house have forgotten their side and the elves no longer see it as relevant. The magic is still there though, so an unscrupulous rival of the elven house might seek to obtain the human side of the contract and persuade someone recognised by the magic as part of the human house to activate it.

[Andezzar]

As for noble families of immortals: they pro'lly have a different social structure. Ambassador exchanges might be the way to go.
Maybe exchange of holy relics or the likeThat would work as long as they do not increase their number through procreation. There are only so many posts to give out.


The series is set in a time period where everything goes to hell in a handbasket. Presumably, there are other instances where it hasn't ended badly, or they wouldn't still be doing it. And, as noted, there's some historical precedent.True.



Again, the exchange would go both ways - I'm envisioning it as analogous to fostering, for the races where fostering has logistical problems. If you don't trust them, you don't trust them, but your nephew/cousin/least favorite brother in-law is in their court as well. Since their hostage is probably going to get about the same treatment as yours, you've got to at least pretend to respect the "potential wolf." If they're trustworthy, they might have something to offer. Or they're just a respected "guest" and they drink your wine and act as an ambassador while you keep an eye on them. Yes reciprocal hostage taking/fostering would work a lot better than punitive hostage taking (as was the case with Theon Greyjoy IIRC).

[TheStranger]

I'll also point out that Theon was treated as well as a "hostage" could be treated; Ned Stark treated him as well as he did his own sons. The problem was that Balon Greyjoy is a ****, which was going to be a problem regardless of fostering/hostages/marriage/anything.

Admittedly, things didn't work out well for Theon, but that's par for the course in Westeros. In a less grimdark setting, he would have been fine.

[BowStreetRunner]

The suggestions so far have been mostly physical, but remember this is D&D, so it could be a magically sealed alliance/contract, with penalties for those who willfully break it?

In fact, you could have a magically accomplished union. The Vampires could easily enough bring the human princess over to their side, but a powerful necromancer might also be able to change the Vampire prince into a mortal in order to seal a union. Elves and humans aren't usually a problem, so you could have characters like Elrond half-elven or any of the Shannara children of mixed ancenstry easily enough. But you could also have a young mortal whose essence is infused into a construct body (Rom Spaceknight, anyone?) or a construct who is magically transformed into a mortal.

Magica vincit omnia (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Amor%20Vincit%20Omnia), after all!