[3.5] Druid feats [Core Only]

[druidicforest]

I am currently playing my kind of first campaing (D&D 3.5) since many years, and on those years we did never got above level 5. Previous times I have been playing Sorcerer and Cleric.

This time I am playing Human Druid. And my problem is that I have no idea which feats should I take. We are now at level 6 and I have taken so far:
1) Spell focus (conjuration)
1) Augment Summoning [human Bonus feat]
3) Improved Initiative
6) Natural Spell

We are playing core only, so possibilities are not very wide. I have been thinking taking some Metamagic, mostly Extend, Empowered or Quicken, but I have no idea which spells are enough good to use metamagic and then take spell slot higher than normal - since usually there is atleast SNA, which sounds nice at higher levels.

So which Metamagic you would suggest to take and which spells to use it with? Or do you have any other feats that are kind of must have to druid? Maybe Multiattack?

[Spuddles]

Improved Natural Attack: Claw or Bite and Multiattack are both good.

Extend, Empower, and Quicken can be useful metamagic feats.

[sonofzeal]

See if your DM rules Toughness as +1 hp/level; it's a pretty common houserule and makes the feat worth taking for someone like you. Also, see if your DM will let you take a feat to speak while in Wildshape. There's a core way around this (cursed amulet of project thoughts), but it's kind of cheesy. A feat is reasonable.

Extend is probably the most valuable metamagic for a Druid, followed by Quicken. Silent Spell has its uses, especially if you've invested in stealth skills and are hanging around in animal form.

If you plan on fighting in Wildshape (not recommended in Core until you can get a +1 Wild Dragonhide Breastplate or something, affordable by lvl 8 or 9), then Improved Grapple is worth going for. Combat Expertise->Improved Trip is also a possibility, since you can make trip attempts unarmed and get size bonuses there too, plus you don't run the risk of being flatfooted against secondary attackers.

[druidicforest]

Ok, if I take Extend (as lvl 9 feat) which spells I should use it?

Personally I can't find any spells from lvl 1 that would really be useful to take instead of lvl 2 spells. From level 2 Barkskin is something that is must have all the time on, so here it is like comparision is it better to "waste" two level 2 slots or one level 3 slot for it. Maybe delay poison as Utility to make evening for next day - but then its like waste for one 3rd slot, which "need" to be saved for future - or just used as SNA. From level 3 there is not many good spells, Calllightning is nice, but not actually good damage spell, Protection from Energy or some healing spells would maybe be better than Extended Barkskin. As spells from level 3 which may be good to Extend I think Magic Fang, Greater which is hour/lvl spell, so all day one as lvl 9 with Extend. As level 4 there is Scrying, Fire Storm and Freedom of Movement which are nice ones. Freedom of Movement may be worth of Extend, BUT there is so many nice spells at level 5, for example Animal Growth and Awaken also Call lightning storm and Baleful Polymorph (even it is SOS) sounds nice.

So would extend be like wasted if only things that could be done with it are:
1) Spent level 3 slot instead of 2 level 2 slots for Barkskin [during adventuring day usually needs still 4 of them, so its 2 3rd slots or 4 2nd slots]
2) Go Greater Magic Fang as allday buff for day before for AC and Druid (could it be casted if not Wild Shaped when done so and would it work after Wild Shape again?)

Or am I missing something? If Greater Magic Fang works like all day buff, even if not all day wildshaped, then its a lot better than taking Weapon Focus (bite or claws), but do it work like that? Since if it do, then its sure pick for me, just for that one reason. But with Barkskin I am not sure yet.

And since its uses are so limited (or point what I am missing), why just not bought Metamagic rod of Extend, lesser and do those two tricks with it?

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Impproved Grapple sounds nice, but its prereq is Improved Unarmed Strike which needs DEX 13, which is more than I have, so that one is out of game. Same problem with Combat Expertise and Improved Trip.

For speaking at WS, I maybe need to ask - since then I have not been so much in WS that it really matter, practically only during battles after not many good spells left.

Multiattack has prereq that should have 3 or more natural attacks, since I don't truly have any its up to DM?

Is there any sense of taking some crafting feats as Druid?

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So summing everthing, looks like I am still having an empty Feat slot :) Maybe most important question now is, what I am missing with Extend -feat?

[Gnaeus]

Is there any sense of taking some crafting feats as Druid?

Yes. Craft Wondrous is great for druids, since you can use it to craft gear for your companion. Also, it is an excellent feat for any party to have. If you already have a caster in the party with Craft Wondrous, Craft Wands is also pretty good for cheap utility spells, cure spells and the like. Arms and Armor is a good Self Nerf to strengthen your fighter while burning your own xp in the event that your party starts to realize how broken druids are, and the ability to craft your own Wild Dragonhide armor may also be useful.

[Norin]

If you do not want to spend a feat on it, just buy a lesser extend rod and extend 2-3 barkskins per day? :smallsmile:

[karkus]

Excellent choice on your 6th level feat. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0354.html) :smallbiggrin:

[Urpriest]

At this point, you should decide whether you want to focus on fighting in Wild Shape (as mentioned, requires decent AC, either through Wild armor or through Barding and prep time), or casting.

Castingwise, I've heard good things about Extended Creeping Cold for the occasional fight where you can kite the enemy around. There aren't a ton of other good options for this route until you have higher slots for metamagic though.

For melee, Improved Unarmed Strike is eventually essential regardless, though you may have to pick it up via a Monk's Belt. Don't want to give up on your iteratives if you don't have to, especially when you have forms with enough Str that you don't have to worry about hitting. On that note, Multiattack as mentioned is quite handy. Improved Unarmed Strike and Multiattack should both be ok to take as long as you're in a form with Dex 13+/3 natural attacks when you level up. As mentioned Improved Grapple is handy, though you can always just stick with forms with Improved Grab.

[druidicforest]

Creeping cold is not core, isnt it? If so, seems like in Core fighting in WS is stronger option than casting (atleast by feats)

So AC in animal forms is something to take care of. And if Monk's Belt also could be as prereq of Improved Grapple then it would be good idea to bought it and then drop before WS and ask party members to put it back - then it is possible to get WIS to AC when WS?

[Gnaeus]

Creeping cold is not core, isnt it? If so, seems like in Core fighting in WS is stronger option than casting (atleast by feats)

So AC in animal forms is something to take care of. And if Monk's Belt also could be as prereq of Improved Grapple then it would be good idea to bought it and then drop before WS and ask party members to put it back - then it is possible to get WIS to AC when WS?

That is possible, although your Wis bonus is not likely to be higher than what you could get with wild dragonhide armor.

In core wildshape, your AC is likely to be bad. Your damage will be decent, but not likely to be better than a fighter or similar melee. Your to hit will be lower than a fighter, and you have few good ways to break damage resistance. Your HP will be bad compared with a stock melee. You wind up coming up really well against enemies you or your pet can grapple or trip, and not great against anything else, which is a lot. Outside core, you get some of your best self buffs, as well as wildling clasps which let you wildshape and keep all your gear, and some of the better wildshape feats.

Its true that in core while meleeing with wildshape you won't be terrible. You are still probably better than a monk, or a TWF ranger. But probably not as good as spamming summons for example.

[Urpriest]

Creeping cold is not core, isnt it? If so, seems like in Core fighting in WS is stronger option than casting (atleast by feats)

So AC in animal forms is something to take care of. And if Monk's Belt also could be as prereq of Improved Grapple then it would be good idea to bought it and then drop before WS and ask party members to put it back - then it is possible to get WIS to AC when WS?

Huh, interesting...for some reason I was convinced it was a PHB spell. Probably due to the archaic setup.

WS takes more feats, anyway...since there isn't a lot you can spend feats on in Core to improve your casting (up till Quicken, which you'll want at level 12 or 15 or so), you might as well make yourself good at WS combat.

Yeah, if your DM is ok with you getting items put on you while you're in WS then you can use the Monk's belt to get Wis to AC. Probably still want some sort of armor, but depending on your Wis it could wait.

Edit: Also, Wild armor doesn't preclude a Monk's Belt, since it only gives you the AC and not the other effects of wearing armor.

[druidicforest]

As summarising this discussion:

Craft Wonderous Item probably most useful at level 9?

Multiattack Like "must" have if using any forms with pounce or multiple attacks, maybe should be taken level 12?

Quicken Take from level 15, when two spells per round or spell and attack would give nice benefits as part of action economy.

Or should I take Multiattack before crafting.. This still left one slot empty, level 18, but its after get level 9 spells...

To cover Extend, Metamagic rod is enough. Monk's Belt or Wild Breastplate are must items.

Seems like all in all, there is no "best" picks, but there are multiple kind of cool, but nothing special feats..

btw. is Spell Focus (conjuration) really feat that is totally useless, since only benefit it has given is possibility to take Augment summoning. From druid spell list, only Fire Seed (lvl 6) is only Conjuration spell that allow partial reflex safe where that feat helps rising that safe DC by 1 - Totally useless :D

[Urpriest]

For crafting, I'd say play it by ear. If it looks like you're going to get a lot of downtime, grab it. Otherwise, get Multiattack first.

[Spuddles]

Ape morph + barded hide armor + shillelagh is a decent fighter. Stay with your animal companion and share buffs, like cats grace, barkskin, bear strength.

Some 2nd lvl pearls of power could be a great investment, as there are a lot of great 2nd level buff spells.

[druidicforest]

barded hide? What it is?

[Spuddles]

You can buy armor in unusual shapes and sizes, as described in the PHB equipment section. When you purchase it for a mount or other animal, it is called "barding". Barding costs 2x, and there is also a size multiplier for price.

Hide barding for an ape would be hide armor sized to large and shaped to fit an ape.

Hide is dirt cheap, so you don't get killed by cost multipliers, and druids can wear it.

Otherwise wildshaping dragonhide breastplate with a monk belt is best. But that is all pricey. You can make your own barding with a craft check and save 66% on the price.

[druidicforest]

So bought many for different forms or just for most useful battlefield ones? How to assume "most useful" and hide is rather heavy, so bags of holding or handy haversack atleast is needed here -- and even though dragonhide is consired cheap, rules also told about killing much larger dragon to get it, so DM could be hard there - is leather armors just too bad for this kind of utility?