[3.5+PF] Incorporeal creatures and Str

[Novawurmson]

So an incorporeal creature doesn't have a Strength score and uses its Dexterity modifier on attacks. Cool.

However, an incorporeal creature can still wield weapons with the ghost touch quality (or through rarer things like the Ghostly Grasp feat from Libris Mortis).

1. If a ghost uses any effect (such as Shadowblade or the Agile weapon quality (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile)) that allows me to use a stat instead of Str to damage, it still get that damage, correct?

2. A ghost cannot benefit from Power Attack because it has no Str modifier (making it unable to meat the Str 13 requirement); however, if there was a class, prestige class, or item that gave the feat and specifically called out the user as not needing to qualify for the feat, an incorporeal creature could benefit from it, correct?

3. Are there any other ways of building a melee ghost/incorporeal creature (a feat or prestige class that grants an incorporeal creature a Strength score would be nifty)?

[Jack_Simth]

So an incorporeal creature doesn't have a Strength score and uses its Dexterity modifier on attacks. Cool.

However, an incorporeal creature can still wield weapons with the ghost touch quality (or through rarer things like the Ghostly Grasp feat from Libris Mortis).

1. If a ghost uses any effect (such as Shadowblade or the Agile weapon quality (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/agile)) that allows me to use a stat instead of Str to damage, it still get that damage, correct?

2. A ghost cannot benefit from Power Attack because it has no Str modifier (making it unable to meat the Str 13 requirement); however, if there was a class, prestige class, or item that gave the feat and specifically called out the user as not needing to qualify for the feat, an incorporeal creature could benefit from it, correct?

3. Are there any other ways of building a melee ghost/incorporeal creature (a feat or prestige class that grants an incorporeal creature a Strength score would be nifty)?
In 3.5, a Ghost is an edge case - they still have a strength score, as they're corporeal on the Ethereal plane. In Pathfinder, your basic Ghost does not have that dual nature, as is merely incorporeal. Assuming you're using Pathfinder for the Ghost (and not going with the Dread Ghost, which appears to be third-party based on the 3.5 version of the Ghost), then:

1) In most cases, yes. Nonabilities (at least in 3.5; as far as I'm aware, they're officially undefined in Pathfinder...) provide a modifier of +0 wherever it's relevant. So if something replaces Strength to damage, then you're replacing the +0 with the whatever.
2) Correct. I ... really don't see how this would be in question, myself; if you have a bonus feat from a class feature that calls it out that you don't need to meet the requirements (such as the Ranger's Two-Weapon fighting), then you don't need to meet the requirements.
3) If 3.5 is allowed, the Master of the Unseen Hand is worth a look. You don't technically get your strength score back, and you're not technically in melee generally, but it's worth looking at it's class features, for a ghost.

[Novawurmson]

I didn't know it until tonight, but incorporeal creatures do not have a Strength score in 3.5.

Incorporeal Subtype (3.5) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#incorporealSubtype)


...It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to both its melee attacks and its ranged attacks.

Incorporeal Subtype (PF) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules#TOC-Incorporeal-Ex-)


It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to its melee attacks, ranged attacks, and CMB.

I'll check out Master of the Unseen Hand, thanks!

Edit: Master of the Unseen Hand is strange for Pathfinder...d4 HD and full BAB. How things change.

For a little bit more about what I'm doing...I'm a DM making at least two ghost NPCs (well, one NPC and one BBEG). It's a PF/3.5/3rd party/homebrew environment, but I like to use them in that order.

Master of the Unseen Hand really is awesome for ghost, especially an NPC. With a PC, you'd be giving up an enormous amount of versatility, but an NPC really only has to worry about one combat ever (usually), so being a one-trick pony just makes it easier to run the encounter. I'll definitely be making at least one of the ghosts with this prestige class :D