Planar Shepherd and Knowledge Devotion?

[AzureNightshade]

I'm playing in a campaign soon where the DM has ok'd planar shepherd with me and I noticed it had a bunch of knowledge requirements and they were 2 of the good ones for Knowledge Devotion, and it also had Knowledge Arcana as an in class skill.

I'm taking the Planar Druid Sub level at level 4 to get my 4 ranks in the Planes all in one go, and +2 to saves against the abilities of outsiders just sounds infinitely better then saves against fey.

I'm probably going to take Religion as my Knowledge Devotion skill, unless the DM doesn't seem too interested in undead (I haven't played with them before), then I'll probably pick Dungeoneering.

Anyway, I know there are lots of Knowledge Devotion min/max threads, but most of them seem to be centered around Clerical Abuse, what kinda tricks could I pick up as a druid? (other then the obvious skill trick)

[Spuddles]

Knowledge Devotion, at most, gives you a +5 to attack and damage when you make attack rolls.

It's not really worth it, imo, for T1 classes, especially when you can have at will fireball or something even more insane.

[AzureNightshade]

I will have at will fireballs, this is true, and hell at will empowered chain lightnings. But part of me just really likes the idea of turning into a celestial lion with +20 to attack and damage then pouncing, not to mention the 13 levels between being a level 1 druid and getting at will fireballs.

[animewatcha]

Forgive me, but at will fireballs and at will empowered chain lightnings??

[Spuddles]

I will have at will fireballs, this is true, and hell at will empowered chain lightnings. But part of me just really likes the idea of turning into a celestial lion with +20 to attack and damage then pouncing, not to mention the 13 levels between being a level 1 druid and getting at will fireballs.

I would rather have Greenbound Summoning, a Wild Cohort, Rashemi Elemental Summoning, Natural Spell, Spellbond Companion, Natural Bond or Ashbound over Knowledge Devotion.

[AzureNightshade]

Forgive me, but at will fireballs and at will empowered chain lightnings??

The 9th level of planar shepherd gives you the ability to wild shape into outsiders and elementals and gain all or nearly all of their abilities. Turning into a Leonal gives you at will fireballs, wall of force, pounce, rakes, a globe of invulnerability effect and other nice things. Turning into a Tulani at level 18 gives you the ability to manifest a +4 brilliant energy holy longsword and shoot off at will empowered chain lightnings, mass charm monster, polymorph any object, wall of force and telekinesis as well as many other nice things. The Firre have many at will fire powers as well.

I'm sure there are more abusive cases, but since I love the Eladrin, I chose their plane.

[AzureNightshade]

I would rather have Greenbound Summoning, a Wild Cohort, Rashemi Elemental Summoning, Natural Spell, Spellbond Companion, Natural Bond or Ashbound over Knowledge Devotion.

I banned myself from greenbound summoning, its plain ole not fair, I don't have spell bond companion or wild cohort in my build anywhere cuz I haven't heard of them, but I have the other 4 in there.

Strongheart Halfling:
1st Nymph's Kiss
1st Ashbound Summoning
3rd Knowledge Devotion
6th Natural Spell
9th Natural Bond
12th Rashemi ES
15th dunno lol
18th Extraordinary Concentration

I have augment summoning for free Cuz i convinced the DM it should be a Class Feature, and they're a nice lady.

Where can I find these companion feats of which you speak? never mind I found them, they don't appeal to me. Also you are derailing me and my thread significantly :(

[Spuddles]

Wild Cohort
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a

Companion Spellbond
http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/companion-spellbond--411/

[sleepyphoenixx]

For your 15th level feat consider Craft Contingent Spell (CArc). Initiate of Nature (PGtF) is nice too and, depending on level, more efficient than Wild Cohort.
Boosting your level for rebuking/commanding is not that hard or expensive and your dm should have no problems with it if he allows Planar Shepherd.

Dragon Wild Shape (Drac) is another good one and probably one of my favorite feats.
It looses some value when you get outsider WS but the versatility and utility of being able to assume the various dragon forms is staggering, provided you do your research.
The Dragon Wild Shape Optimization Thread (http://web.archive.org/web/20080919131238/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-404381) is not quite complete but has most of the dragons you can use.

[AzureNightshade]

For your 15th level feat consider Craft Contingent Spell (CArc). Initiate of Nature (PGtF) is nice too and, depending on level, more efficient than Wild Cohort.
Boosting your level for rebuking/commanding is not that hard or expensive and your dm should have no problems with it if he allows Planar Shepherd.

Dragon Wild Shape (Drac) is another good one and probably one of my favorite feats.
It looses some value when you get outsider WS but the versatility and utility of being able to assume the various dragon forms is staggering, provided you do your research.
The Dragon Wild Shape Optimization Thread (http://web.archive.org/web/20080919131238/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-404381) is not quite complete but has most of the dragons you can use.

My Charisma is dumped to a 8, so rebuking animals is a no go.

Also, this is not a please help me optimize my planar shepherd thread, this is a please help me optimize Knowledge Devotion in the hands of a planar shepherd thread.

Please try to stay on the topic! >.<;;;
Thanks.

[AzureNightshade]

Bump for an on-topic response!

Also if anyone wants to help me figure out what generic druid spells are good, that would be great! I really have no idea this is my first time playing a divine caster.

[sleepyphoenixx]

There isn't that much to optimize. Take a form with as many attacks as possible, keep your knowledge skills up and maybe invest in a +INT item if you have spare cash lying around. The Collector of Stories skill trick helps too (Complete Scoundrel iirc). It's not worth spending a great amount of resources on imo since you'll get a +3 pretty reliably by mid levels.

For spells, you can look here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12183941&postcount=4) and here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=auk6sjs20btq6u4bu43lurqun3&topic=940).

[Spuddles]

Girallon's Blessing, SpC.

[AzureNightshade]

There isn't that much to optimize. Take a form with as many attacks as possible, keep your knowledge skills up and maybe invest in a +INT item if you have spare cash lying around. The Collector of Stories skill trick helps too (Complete Scoundrel iirc). It's not worth spending a great amount of resources on imo since you'll get a +3 pretty reliably by mid levels.

For spells, you can look here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12183941&postcount=4) and here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=auk6sjs20btq6u4bu43lurqun3&topic=940).

I plan to be a Leskylor or Three-headed Leskylor when I hit 10 for the majority of my career Then a Leonal at 13/14.

Here is a list of my preferred Wild Shapes:
Wild Shapes:
lvl 6: Fleshraker Dinosaur, Desmodu Hunting Bat
lvl 8: Celestial Polar Bear or Dire Lion, Cave Triceratops, Dire Eagle, Leskylor & 3headed variant.
lvl 12: Lesser Battlebriar, Celestial Legendary Eagle
lvl 14: Leonal, Shiradi
lvl 15: Verakia, Grizzly Mastadon, Saguaro Sentinel, Tendriculos, Triceratops
lvl 18: Tulani

I figured if any class had a spell the equivalent of Libra (FF series) it would be rangers or druids...

[Vaz]

You have a BAB of 14, IIRC, as a 20th level, Druid 10/PS 10.

As a Melee'er, you should be taking forms like a Pit Fiend (Strength 37), with things like Bite of the Werebear (+16) up; that's +21 to attack. Greater Magic Fang for a +5, and you're at +40 to attack. With a UMD'd Wand of Truestrike and/or Wraithstrike, you'll be fine, especially when with Shillelagh, Spikes, and Entangling Staff and you're flanking him with a half dozen summons.

There's no real need for Knowledge Devotion, unless you're finding yourself up against AC81+ foes.

[Akal Saris]

1) For Knowledge Devotion's always-on class skill, I'd suggest picking up Knowledge (Local), since that applies to humanoid foes (elves, humans, etc.). Since some of the hardest foes are often humanoids with spellcaster levels, I found that my cloistered cleric/assassin character got a lot of use out of that particular skill every level.

2) See if you can be part of a Knowledge affiliation church or group (CC Pg. 36). The low level abilities help a bit, and the L30 capstone is ridiculously cool.

3) Speaking of Complete Champion, the 'of the beast' item set there is great for a druid. And the 'book of all knowledge' is cheap and could be a good fit thematically (1/day read it for a few hours, gain +10 to a knowledge check).

[AzureNightshade]

You have a BAB of 14, IIRC, as a 20th level, Druid 10/PS 10.

As a Melee'er, you should be taking forms like a Pit Fiend (Strength 37), with things like Bite of the Werebear (+16) up; that's +21 to attack. Greater Magic Fang for a +5, and you're at +40 to attack. With a UMD'd Wand of Truestrike and/or Wraithstrike, you'll be fine, especially when with Shillelagh, Spikes, and Entangling Staff and you're flanking him with a half dozen summons.

There's no real need for Knowledge Devotion, unless you're finding yourself up against AC81+ foes.

I chose Lamannia - The Twilight Forest as my plane not Shavarath - The Battleground, so pit fiend is out.

The Verakia from DM#357 is in though because it specifies "any warm forest" as a habitat :3 so it will most likely be my main go to form when there is room.

[AzureNightshade]

1) For Knowledge Devotion's always-on class skill, I'd suggest picking up Knowledge (Local), since that applies to humanoid foes (elves, humans, etc.). Since some of the hardest foes are often humanoids with spellcaster levels, I found that my cloistered cleric/assassin character got a lot of use out of that particular skill every level.

2) See if you can be part of a Knowledge affiliation church or group (CC Pg. 36). The low level abilities help a bit, and the L30 capstone is ridiculously cool.

3) Speaking of Complete Champion, the 'of the beast' item set there is great for a druid. And the 'book of all knowledge' is cheap and could be a good fit thematically (1/day read it for a few hours, gain +10 to a knowledge check).

Ooo that is useful! Thank's a bunch, I didn't even think about knowledge local.

Speaking of items that wild shape with you, Isn't there a weapon that melds with you when you wild shape giving its bonuses to your natural attacks? I think I vaguely remember reading about one, but I don't remember

[Lateral]

Forgive me, but at will fireballs and at will empowered chain lightnings??

I'm sure there are more abusive cases, but since I love the Eladrin, I chose their plane.
Yeah. Those 'more abusive cases' being Dal Quor.

Anyway, RE: spell choices. Druids get some great ones, but honestly, you're a Planar Shepherd: you have about infinity plus one ways to win.

That said, here are some spells that I would say are especially strong for their level:

1st level
Entangle- yeah, this is a staple.
Omen of Peril- a 1st level divination that'll always be useful. What's not to love?
Lion's Charge- The Savage Species version. Ridiculously powerful. Unlikely to actually be approved, but it is nice, although it isn't a swift action. See also the SpC version at 3rd level.

2nd level
Kelpstrand- make CL/3 enemies useless as a standard action.
Embrace the Wild- with the form of a Desmodu Hunting Bat, it's effectively 120-foot Blindsight for 10 minutes/level. As a 2nd level spell. Like Listening Lorecall, but better in every way. Also, a million times more versatile. Bear in mind that this is the Complete Adventurer version we're talking about here- the SpC version sucks.
Blinding Spittle- Blind one enemy. Best part is, no save, and they can't get rid of it until they can find some water. Might as well say 'make one enemy useless until you kill them, no save.'
Blood Snow- A personal favorite- combine with a snow spell, and it can be quite deadly.
3rd level
Alter Fortune- Yeah, it has an XP cost, but it'll save someone's life eventually.
Arctic Haze- Fog cloud. That kills people.
Blindsight- Listening Lorecall is usually better due to its longer duration, and CA Embrace the Wild is just better, period, but if you can't get the latter and you don't have the 10 listen ranks needed to make the former good, this will work, too.
Girallon's Blessing- What can't you do with an extra pair of arms?
Greater Magic Fang- Kind of duh, but you're a Druid. You need natural attack enhancing spells.
Heart of Water- Swim speed is okay, but the real nice thing is Freedom of Movement. It's better than the actual spell, since expending it is an immediate action.
Lion's Charge- Swift action casting is nice, even if it's only one round.
Spiritjaws- NARM NARM NARM
Venomfire- You've probably heard of this one. Ridiculously powerful, if you can swing it.
4th level

Greater Resistance- +3 to all saving throws, all day.
Heart of Earth- The temporary HP is nice, and the Stoneskin effect is also great. Plus, this combined with Heart of Water gets you light fortification. If you also have Heart of Air (2nd level) and Heart of Fire (5th) you get 100% fortification, but those spells aren't that great on their own.
Last Breath- Yeah, it's a Reincarnate effect, but it could save someone's life, and it doesn't even cost a level.
Scrying- Duh.
Superior Magic Fang- Like GMF, but better, since it applies to all natural weapons at once.
Vortex of Teeth- Swarm of flying force piranha. Worth it for the image alone, but it's extremely deadly if you combine it with something preventing escape from the area.
5th level
Animal Growth- Not entirely sure how good this is on a Planar Shepherd, but it's absolute dynamite for anyone who actually uses animals.
Call Avalanche- Yeah, this is what you took Blood Snow for. (It's also insanely stylish.)
Control Winds- You can seriously destroy some things with this spell.

6th level
Find the Path- Lost? NO YOU AREN'T.
Superior Resistance- +6 to saves all day.


...That's about as far as I've got, actually. I've never played a druid past about level 12.

[AzureNightshade]

That call avalanche/bloodsnow combo is brilliant.
Does Greater Magic Fang effect both claws/talons or just one when cast?
Say a 3 Headed Leskylor had GMF cast on it's head, would all 3 get the effect?
I didn't know druids also got the heart of series!

Alright I have a better idea of things now I think...

[Lateral]

Does Greater Magic Fang effect both claws/talons or just one when cast?
Say a 3 Headed Leskylor had GMF cast on it's head, would all 3 get the effect?

No, unfortunately Greater Magic Fang either provides a +1 per four caster levels to one natural weapon or provides a flat +1 to all of them. That's what Superior Magic Fang is for.

[Vaz]

A wildclasped Necklace of Natural Attacks allows it to be enchanted. Sure it costs WBL, but for the most part, there is no need to "waste" a Spell (a limited resource) when gold will suffice (mostly).

[Lateral]

A wildclasped Necklace of Natural Attacks allows it to be enchanted. Sure it costs WBL, but for the most part, there is no need to "waste" a Spell (a limited resource) when gold will suffice (mostly).

For Druids, Necklaces of Natural Attacks quickly become exorbitantly expensive (since it costs extra for each natural attack). They're much better on unarmed strike users. Either way, you'd still be using that Necklace for special abilities (i.e. a +1 warning parrying fleshgrinding Necklace of Natural Attacks) along with that Superior Magic Fang for the +X to hit and damage.