Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin

[Rosstin]

Do we have a thread for talking about this here? OMG we should. This show is amazing, full of intense battles, life-or-death situations, and surprisingly enjoyable characters. Also, giant guys with no skin.

If you like any of those things, highly recommend.

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee493/rosstin2011february/attack_on_titan_by_myme1-d65gngv_zps7bfce0bf.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Titan)

[psilontech]

I gave the series an honest try, I really did, but Good God, the whining. They just can't stop whining.

Spoiler alert.


First couple of episodes: Main character being a crybaby. Really, I get it, mommy is dead. I don't care enough about you, as a character, to want to listen to it. Now DO SOMETHING INTERESTING! PLEASE!

Followed by: Training! Okay, I can get into this. Kind of interesting. Introducing new characters, some of which I actually enjoy.

ANOTHER ATTACK! Main character gets EATEN AND DIES! Good, I'm glad he's dead. The previous wallflower sister has an interesting change and I'm all for her being the protagonist in this story now.

NOPE! Titan Kiddy is back, and he can turn into a Titan! ... Son of a bitch, I was very much ready for him to be out of the picture and only used as a point of character development for other, more interesting characters.

TWO FULL EPISODES OF INTROSPECTION during which exactly one minute and thirty seconds of actual THINGS happen. I enjoyed the flashback explaining how brother/sister duo met. I did. The rest of it just freaking drug on and on. More mopey mopey whine whine.

I might come back after it's finished and someone tells me which episodes I don't have to watch to cut down on the freaking angst.

[thubby]

i was expecting a pitch black story which shows the end of humanity as witnessed by a child.

what i got was a bizarre take on the mecha genre where a stupid kid falls into the super suit.

I can't say im unhappy with what it is, but unless something really changes (and the manga thus far says it won't), the anime is going to be a mediocre affair with jaw dropping visuals.

[Rosstin]

TWO FULL EPISODES OF INTROSPECTION

This is the only worry/complaint I see myself having with the series. I hope it doesn't go the way of "fighting anime" in having overly stretched-out plot, like One Piece or Naruto or something, where it takes a million episodes to resolve one silly fight.

[Admiral Squish]

I watched episode one, but I simply couldn't get into it. My friend has been talking about it for weeks, but it just looked like some stupidly uber-gory and whiny anime to me. It was just ALL HOPELESSNESS ALL THE TIME.

If someone can assure me it gets better after that, I might give it another shot.

EDIT: Also, the swords seem kinda stupid. Seems to me like fighting giants, you'd want piercing weapons, or at least something two-handed to hack or punch through all that extra flesh. And, hell, the giants don't have any ranged capacity, why not bows? High mobility means you can move around, stay out of their reach, and slowly needle them to death.

[ThePhantom]

Form what I know of the series the titans regenerate, so you can't needled them down, you need to deal a lot of damage fast to kill them.

[Admiral Squish]

Form what I know of the series the titans regenerate, so you can't needled them down, you need to deal a lot of damage fast to kill them.

Well, then, that's only more reason for them to use larger, two-handed weapons or piercing weapons, instead of a pair of light swords.

[thubby]

EDIT: Also, the swords seem kinda stupid. Seems to me like fighting giants, you'd want piercing weapons, or at least something two-handed to hack or punch through all that extra flesh. And, hell, the giants don't have any ranged capacity, why not bows? High mobility means you can move around, stay out of their reach, and slowly needle them to death.

the titans regenerate and only have 1 known weak spot deep in their flesh at the base of the neck and it needs to be excised, not merely damaged.

the manga goes more into the "science" it. the cannons you see CAN kill the titans, but the amount of power and precision required to essentially blow through the c7 vertebra makes it a highly unlikely matter of dumb luck.

[BRC]

The only way to kill the Titans is to use 3d Motion Gear, which is kind of physics-defying rule-of-cool stuff in of itself, but anyway precise balance and weight would be important.

Two swords even out weightwise, one big sword or an axe would make the user unbalanced, which would make using the Gear very, very difficult. The user would need to, while flinging themselves around with the 3d Motion gear, keep their blade perfectly centered on their body or else constantly be compensating for the shifting weight of the sword.

The Titans can only be killed with a deep cut to their weak spot (The back of the neck). The skill is mainly in using the 3d Motion gear to get into position to make the strike. Gross physical trauma is irrelevant unless it's in that exact place.
Also, the sword-hilts contain triggers that serve as the control mechanism for the 3d-motion gear (Firing gas-powered grappling hooks).

[Admiral Squish]

Ahh, okay, that explains a lot more. Seems kinda contrived, but at least it's an explanation.

[thubby]

Ahh, okay, that explains a lot more. Seems kinda contrived, but at least it's an explanation.

it is, a bit, but realize that the author is trying to make something big and dumb a threat to the very existence of humanity without being completely unstoppable.
if you're willing to suspend that bit of disbelief, a lot of what follows is fairly clever.

honestly, i get the impression that the author would have been a lot more comfortable with a story about a world or nation as a whole rather than a particular character.

edit: turns out he was influenced by muv-luv. it had basically the same problem. great concept with mediocre characters and used poorly.

[Kato]

There have been a few notes on it in the General Anime and Manga Discussion thread... Most recently what my (and I think others) huge problem with the show is...

I'm also not entirely happy with the structure of the story but meh... it is an okay show. As thubby just said, great concept, poor execution. (Which is the case way too often)

[Prime32]

a mediocre affair with jaw dropping visuals.Visuals and opening song, you mean. :smalltongue:

SIE SIND DAS ESSEN UND WIR SIND DIE JÄGER!
(https://www.youtube.com/v/DFDQuGX1JT0)

[nyarlathotep]

I've actually really liked the show. It's probably the only worthwhile zombie story I've read/watched in the last three years. Before that I was beginning to think that all the good anime was gone and I'd seen it all in the mid oughts.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Do we have a thread for talking about this here? OMG we should. This show is amazing, full of intense battles, life-or-death situations, and surprisingly enjoyable characters. Also, giant guys with no skin.

If you like any of those things, highly recommend.

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee493/rosstin2011february/attack_on_titan_by_myme1-d65gngv_zps7bfce0bf.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Titan)

Yes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277941).

Also I personally couldn't get past the first episode, but it sure does look neat.

[Prime32]

Stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy83pwj33i8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBrCtEdnsHE

[Kato]

I've actually really liked the show. It's probably the only worthwhile zombie story I've read/watched in the last three years. Before that I was beginning to think that all the good anime was gone and I'd seen it all in the mid oughts.

:smallconfused: There've been a lot of good shows in the last years... And while I guess there are similarities putting Shingeki under zombie seems like a weird choice...

also: Damn you, Prime, I was about to post that 3DMG video :smalltongue:

[AdmiralCheez]

When I first heard about this show a few weeks ago, I thought it was about an attack on Titan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(moon)), the moon of Saturn. Maybe a sci-fi themed thing about defending a colony there from aliens or whatever.

The first few episodes were kind of grating, since the main character is just full of so much anger and hatred, but after they go and join the army, it becomes more enjoyable. There is a lot of whining and crying, but it doesn't bother me that much since it makes sense that a bunch of fresh-out-of-boot-camp cadets would panic and doubt themselves during a real life-or-death battle. If it goes on for too much longer though, I might change my mind.

[nyarlathotep]

:smallconfused: There've been a lot of good shows in the last years... And while I guess there are similarities putting Shingeki under zombie seems like a weird choice...

also: Damn you, Prime, I was about to post that 3DMG video :smalltongue:

I think I may have greatly differing tastes compared to many anime fans, and most of the shows I've been recommended were terrible enough that I stuck to watching HBO/Showtime series and later seasons of Supernatural for my television intake. Though I've recently given Madoka a second chance and enjoyed it far more than during my first attempt to watch it.

As for the latter part, the humans under siege story is only ever really shown nowadays as zombies, but I'd put it story content wise with zombie stories like dawn of the dead and non-zombie movies like Dog Soldiers. Zulu and 300 are kind of in the same boat, but it makes me feel really racist to compare them, or at least makes me think the film-makers are racist.

[Rosstin]

I don't think it's unfair to think of AOT as a type of zombie story. The parallels should be clear.

[Kato]

I don't know... while, obviously, there is the "supernatural humanlike beings that eat people" bit but most zombie stories I think of - or maybe more precise "stuff I associate with zombie stories" is survival horror, not a whole society built upon the foundation of being scared of zombies. At least in my book it very much goes against what most zombie stories are about.
(Admittedly, I am not that well versed in zombie stories but most I am aware of the zombies are a rather new, suddenly appearing force, not a threat that hunts humanity for centuries)


btw, I'm not sure if that's entirely original but I'll just throw in a WMG about Titan's plot.

What if the giant and/or armored Titan are (failed) results of Dr. Jaeger's research, as in also transforming humans or something like that which is why they suddenly appear and disappear without an (obvious) trace?
Of course, this is still less likely than them being like the Titans just some cosmic joke to piss of humanity.

[Tengu_temp]

Visuals and opening song, you mean. :smalltongue:

SIE SIND DAS ESSEN UND WIR SIND DIE JÄGER!
(https://www.youtube.com/v/DFDQuGX1JT0)

Holy crap, how come I never realized this first line is in German?

And yes, this is a really awesome song. I have to listen to it every time I stumble upon it.


I think I may have greatly differing tastes compared to many anime fans, and most of the shows I've been recommended were terrible enough that I stuck to watching HBO/Showtime series and later seasons of Supernatural for my television intake. Though I've recently given Madoka a second chance and enjoyed it far more than during my first attempt to watch it.

I think either you were recommended some really bad choices, or you have some weird tastes. One way or the other, I disagree that there are no good recent anime. I had that complaint at the beginning of this decade, and then turned out to be so wrong I couldn't believe how foolish I was.


I don't think it's unfair to think of AOT as a type of zombie story. The parallels should be clear.

I thought it's a retelling of Roald Dahl's The BFG.

[Rising Phoenix]

I don't know... while, obviously, there is the "supernatural humanlike beings that eat people" bit but most zombie stories I think of - or maybe more precise "stuff I associate with zombie stories" is survival horror, not a whole society built upon the foundation of being scared of zombies. At least in my book it very much goes against what most zombie stories are about.
(Admittedly, I am not that well versed in zombie stories but most I am aware of the zombies are a rather new, suddenly appearing force, not a threat that hunts humanity for centuries)


btw, I'm not sure if that's entirely original but I'll just throw in a WMG about Titan's plot.

What if the giant and/or armored Titan are (failed) results of Dr. Jaeger's research, as in also transforming humans or something like that which is why they suddenly appear and disappear without an (obvious) trace?
Of course, this is still less likely than them being like the Titans just some cosmic joke to piss of humanity.


That's probably going to be the case, considering that it has been as cliche as can be at this stage. The culprit may not necessarily be his dad though.

Now if the main character had stayed dead. I would be certainly not calling it cliche

Also my main grip with the series is at how poorly organized the army is.

Still worth a watch out of curiosity + it's the only 'good' anime I've stumbled across this season.

[thubby]

btw, I'm not sure if that's entirely original but I'll just throw in a WMG about Titan's plot.

What if the giant and/or armored Titan are (failed) results of Dr. Jaeger's research, as in also transforming humans or something like that which is why they suddenly appear and disappear without an (obvious) trace?
Of course, this is still less likely than them being like the Titans just some cosmic joke to piss of humanity.


manga spoilers
you are, sadly, right. dr jaegar may or may not be the cause, but the armored and collosal titan are people.

[Metahuman1]

Tried it in Manga format. Couldn't get past the stupidly grimdark first few chapters.

How far in the series do I have to go before it stops being about a bunch of big dumb near unstoppable monsters running around eating everything smaller then them that moves?

[tensai_oni]

How far in the series do I have to go before it stops being about a bunch of big dumb near unstoppable monsters running around eating everything smaller then them that moves?

It never stops.

[thubby]

complaining about grimdark in a series that is in premise about the near death of humanity is rather silly.

[Metahuman1]

*Shrug.* Look, near death of humanity is all well and good as a plot device. It's the rubbing your face in massive numbers of characters and background characters dieing up down forwards backwards left right and center 24/7 that irks me. Focus more on the fight to prevail or at least survive and give the humans a fighting chance (If you wanna say them having a fighting chance would ruin the near death thing, fine, maybe the chance is like a new weapon or something that they've just now found/developed/figured out/gotten/made and it works.), and let them actually have intense battles were yeah, they could loose if there stupid, but if there not they've actually got a reasonable chance of winning. Now you've got something worth watching.

[Rosstin]

My favorite upbeat apocalypse movie:
http://d2oz5j6ef5tbf6.cloudfront.net/cd/large/Quiet_Earth_CH028.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quiet_Earth_(film))

TVTropes should have a page for "upbeat apocalypse".

[Metahuman1]

My favorite upbeat apocalypse movie:
http://d2oz5j6ef5tbf6.cloudfront.net/cd/large/Quiet_Earth_CH028.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quiet_Earth_(film))

TVTropes should have a page for "upbeat apocalypse".

Never scene it, care to give a synopsis?

[Rosstin]

Synopsis:
A trio of suicidal mid-lifers rediscover love, angst, and hope in a world suddenly devoid of other humans.

But if you think you might like an 80s apocalypse movie, I recommend you just give it a shot. In my opinion, it's very intelligent and human. The first 30 minutes alone are just really great.

The character Joanne has some really excellent quotes that stuck with me, too. She has one where she talks about how we justify people's actions that I hate to paraphrase, I'll have to rewatch it and get it exact.

[Metahuman1]

Potentially interesting, I might give it a swing next time I do an at home movie night by myself.

[Flickerdart]

I don't know about "upbeat" apocalypses, but Cozy catastrophes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CosyCatastrophe) are a thing.

[Kato]

Holy crap, how come I never realized this first line is in German?
Me neither. And I'm German. And it is pretty good German, I just didn't expect it. and therefore totally missed it. Kind of a nice pun with the Jäger, too.


I thought it's a retelling of Roald Dahl's The BFG.
I don't think I ever heard of it but while from what wikipedia tells me there seem to be similarities it's much too different to be a retelling.


Also my main grip with the series is at how poorly organized the army is.
QFT. (Again. I really really hate that army.)


Still worth a watch out of curiosity + it's the only 'good' anime I've stumbled across this season.
It's up to personal preference of course but I'd argue there are other good and better shows this season. But that's a discussion for the General Thread.

[t209]

manga spoilers
you are, sadly, right. dr jaegar may or may not be the cause, but the armored and collosal titan are people.
From TV Trope and Wiki (manga spoilers)
I wonder how long will it take for humanity turn the tide of the hopeless conflict.
- Military Police are given a well needed discipline in the manga.
- Some shifting titans are on human side (i.e- Jaegar).
I wonder why I don't want to read this comic despite my witnesses to
- Mouth foaming, axe wielding, and chainmail smacking violence of Vinland Saga.
- Demon slaying, sword fighting, and blood bath gore of Berserk manga.
- Warhammer 40,000 wars that lasts for millennium and hopeless for all sides except Chaos (played as comedy in a story of Ciaphus Cain but played as tragedy in a story of Gaunt Ghost).
:smallannoyed:maybe my inner lust for grim dark stops here.

Also my main grip with the series is at how poorly organized the army is.
I knew that. (spoiler due to revelation of the "cool" army)
- Royal Police are pretty much like real life personal guards army (highly trained but not in frontline and sometimes incompetent). Persian Immortals might be different though since their numbers can be brought back to originals (thus the reason for their "immortal" status) and used as shock troops often. But the king is giving them a good discipline action in recent manga.
- Scouting corps troops are made up of underskilled red shirts, even though the recruits in Royal Police could be put to good use (i.e- 3d armor). That might have changed since the main character can turn into a titan on human side (and many of them are titans).

[SoC175]

The Titans can only be killed with a deep cut to their weak spot (The back of the neck). Yet somehow have no problem regnerating and getting back up after canons blew away their whole head and throat

Gross physical trauma is irrelevant unless it's in that exact place.Like just vaproizing anything above their shoulders with a big canon? Yet the giant in the episode just got back on his feet

Couldn't stand watching it anymore after that.

[John Cribati]

Yet somehow have no problem regnerating and getting back up after canons blew away their whole head and throat
Like just vaproizing anything above their shoulders with a big canon? Yet the giant in the episode just got back on his feet

Couldn't stand watching it anymore after that.

There is a specific point that needs to be destroyed: the base of the neck, close to where it meets the shoulders. If that's intact, the Titan is still alive. This is likely to do with the fact that that's where the person would be in a human-controlled Titan.

[LOTRfan]

Just a theory (along with minor spoilers)

I figured that all Titans have humans in the base of the neck, and what makes Eren and the rest of the shape-shifters so special is the fact that they are still alive when they're in the Titans' bodies.

So every Titan has (essentially brain-dead) humans inside who are in turn victims from previous Titan attacks. They really are just super-sized zombies in that regard. It adds an extra bit of disgust, too, especially when you consider just how many of the Titans are baby-faced.

[Tengu_temp]

I don't think I ever heard of it but while from what wikipedia tells me there seem to be similarities it's much too different to be a retelling.


But it's also about fighting man-eating giants. And <spoilers> is totally the BFG!

I wasn't being serious.

[Rosstin]

This was always my favorite Goya painting:
http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/ED-AJ016_GOYA_DV_20090213121912.jpg

I am pleased that it has become relevant again.

[Terraoblivion]

My opinion on the show can pretty much be summed up as "yeah, it's alright." It's pretty stupid, has the subtlety of a sledgehammer with a police siren installed on it and the characters probably don't have three dimensions between them, but it's entertaining so I don't really mind, even if I probably won't remember much about it a few months after it's done.

Also, despite that, it's still the show I've enjoyed the second most this season and there is only one I've ever had any interest in that I haven't seen.

[Darklord Bright]

I've found myself watching this and oddly enjoying it, even though I have a lot of problems with it. The premise is actually fairly creative and unsettling, even if the execution is somewhat mediocre.

My problems arise with a few things. Warning, this is a pretty long rant, though I didn't intend it to be until I got started. (And spoilery if you haven't watched the series)

The humans can never catch a break. Seriously. Every single upper hand they have turns into a failure somehow, and any victory is so incredibly minor as to be inconsequential. I kinda just want to see how they're going to keep from ending the series with "And they died." Because at this pace it seems like the only likely ending.

The army is so freaking incompetent. We see these soldiers get trained to be badasses, and we get told that a good group of people in the main cast were even top of their class. We get told that the best soldiers are sent to the safe inner circle while the worst ones are, presumably, sent outside to fight the Eotenas? For a society fighting extinction, that's mind-bogglingly stupid on its own.

But that's not the worst thing about the army. These TOP STUDENTS clearly can't fight their way out of a paper bag. Mikasa gets the closest to doing how you'd expect a TOP STUDENT to perform in a battle, and that's when she goes on a suicidal death charge. All of these soldiers just sit around moping and sobbing while big dumb giants eat them. To their credit, at least most of the giants don't move slow, so I can almost believe that they would have difficulties stabbing them in the neck, which is literally the one thing they got trained to do.

And then there's the reveal "We sent the 20% of our population that was soldiers outside the wall so that they'd die and we'd have room for more people!" or whatever the number was. WHAT? Firstly, why would you send such a huge proportion of your military out to die when it's the only thing protecting you, and secondly, WHY did such a HUGE NUMBER of soldiers not manage to gain any ground on the titans within the outer wall? Aren't they only coming through that one hole in that one area? And why do they build cities on the parts of wall that are purposefully built in such a way that they attract titans?

And yet somehow, I'm still watching this. I kinda want to know where it's going. As far as dark fantasy goes, it's pretty light viewing, I guess? I don't have a lot of other anime left to watch, in fairness, and this is still better than most other stuff out there at the moment.

I... really didn't intend this post to be so negative.

[t209]

I've found myself watching this and oddly enjoying it, even though I have a lot of problems with it. The premise is actually fairly creative and unsettling, even if the execution is somewhat mediocre.

My problems arise with a few things. Warning, this is a pretty long rant, though I didn't intend it to be until I got started. (And spoilery if you haven't watched the series)

The humans can never catch a break. Seriously. Every single upper hand they have turns into a failure somehow, and any victory is so incredibly minor as to be inconsequential. I kinda just want to see how they're going to keep from ending the series with "And they died." Because at this pace it seems like the only likely ending.

The army is so freaking incompetent. We see these soldiers get trained to be badasses, and we get told that a good group of people in the main cast were even top of their class. We get told that the best soldiers are sent to the safe inner circle while the worst ones are, presumably, sent outside to fight the Eotenas? For a society fighting extinction, that's mind-bogglingly stupid on its own.

But that's not the worst thing about the army. These TOP STUDENTS clearly can't fight their way out of a paper bag. Mikasa gets the closest to doing how you'd expect a TOP STUDENT to perform in a battle, and that's when she goes on a suicidal death charge. All of these soldiers just sit around moping and sobbing while big dumb giants eat them. To their credit, at least most of the giants don't move slow, so I can almost believe that they would have difficulties stabbing them in the neck, which is literally the one thing they got trained to do.

And then there's the reveal "We sent the 20% of our population that was soldiers outside the wall so that they'd die and we'd have room for more people!" or whatever the number was. WHAT? Firstly, why would you send such a huge proportion of your military out to die when it's the only thing protecting you, and secondly, WHY did such a HUGE NUMBER of soldiers not manage to gain any ground on the titans within the outer wall? Aren't they only coming through that one hole in that one area? And why do they build cities on the parts of wall that are purposefully built in such a way that they attract titans?

And yet somehow, I'm still watching this. I kinda want to know where it's going. As far as dark fantasy goes, it's pretty light viewing, I guess? I don't have a lot of other anime left to watch, in fairness, and this is still better than most other stuff out there at the moment.

I... really didn't intend this post to be so negative.
Just like how the captain from Sins of the Solar Empire intro said about the military,
We do not know how long they were fighting the titans but one hundred years of peace can make the army soft and inflexible enough to send best recruits to frontline. If you think royal guards are not on frontline, look at Roman Praetorian guards, Jannisaries, and British Royal Guards (though they have high level training but it still applies for ceremonial purposes). 20% are actually refugees and the leaders feel that it's hopeless to reclaim some areas.

[Darklord Bright]

Just like how the captain from Sins of the Solar Empire intro said about the military,
We do not know how long they were fighting the titans but one hundred years of peace can make the army soft and inflexible enough to send best recruits to frontline. If you think royal guards are not on frontline, look at Roman Praetorian guards, Jannisaries, and British Royal Guards (though they have high level training but it still applies for ceremonial purposes). 20% are actually refugees and the leaders feel that it's hopeless to reclaim some areas.

The thing is, the royal guards of real life weren't/aren't protecting the entirety of humanity from a very present external extinction event. They should be somewhere they can readily protect the outer walls, rather than protecting the tiny inner wall that isn't protecting any farms that produce the human's food.

[t209]

The thing is, the royal guards of real life weren't/aren't protecting the entirety of humanity from a very present external extinction event. They should be somewhere they can readily protect the outer walls, rather than protecting the tiny inner wall that isn't protecting any farms that produce the human's food.
Remember what I state earlier,
100 years of peace unless the war with titans is going on for decades. (spoiler from manga)
Plus in the manga, Eren Jaegar (the main character) said that humankind are still bickering amongst themselves and short sighted, even in face of extinction. Plus the royal police are getting a good discipline by the king after the second wall collapsed. However, there are no signs of collapsed building and too empty that it looked like evacuation.
but why didn't they build fortresses on islands, especially the ones surrounded by deep sea and ocean trench unless titans can swim? Or the setting is on earth like but with more land and less sea.

[thubby]

I've found myself watching this and oddly enjoying it, even though I have a lot of problems with it. The premise is actually fairly creative and unsettling, even if the execution is somewhat mediocre.

My problems arise with a few things. Warning, this is a pretty long rant, though I didn't intend it to be until I got started. (And spoilery if you haven't watched the series)

The humans can never catch a break. Seriously. Every single upper hand they have turns into a failure somehow, and any victory is so incredibly minor as to be inconsequential. I kinda just want to see how they're going to keep from ending the series with "And they died." Because at this pace it seems like the only likely ending.

The army is so freaking incompetent. We see these soldiers get trained to be badasses, and we get told that a good group of people in the main cast were even top of their class. We get told that the best soldiers are sent to the safe inner circle while the worst ones are, presumably, sent outside to fight the Eotenas? For a society fighting extinction, that's mind-bogglingly stupid on its own.

But that's not the worst thing about the army. These TOP STUDENTS clearly can't fight their way out of a paper bag. Mikasa gets the closest to doing how you'd expect a TOP STUDENT to perform in a battle, and that's when she goes on a suicidal death charge. All of these soldiers just sit around moping and sobbing while big dumb giants eat them. To their credit, at least most of the giants don't move slow, so I can almost believe that they would have difficulties stabbing them in the neck, which is literally the one thing they got trained to do.

And then there's the reveal "We sent the 20% of our population that was soldiers outside the wall so that they'd die and we'd have room for more people!" or whatever the number was. WHAT? Firstly, why would you send such a huge proportion of your military out to die when it's the only thing protecting you, and secondly, WHY did such a HUGE NUMBER of soldiers not manage to gain any ground on the titans within the outer wall? Aren't they only coming through that one hole in that one area? And why do they build cities on the parts of wall that are purposefully built in such a way that they attract titans?

And yet somehow, I'm still watching this. I kinda want to know where it's going. As far as dark fantasy goes, it's pretty light viewing, I guess? I don't have a lot of other anime left to watch, in fairness, and this is still better than most other stuff out there at the moment.

I... really didn't intend this post to be so negative.
in order

if being the best meant getting the most dangerous job you encourage failure and breed incompetence.

the gap between training and reality has long been a problem and remains one today. look at real world elite units. they are composed entirely of seasoned soldiers because the gap between training and combat is cavernous.

they didn't send soldiers (not exclusively anyway), they sent 20% of the people out to die under the guise of a military effort after conscripting a huge number of them.
humanity can't gain ground on the titans because they have no way to hold positions without the walls. retaking wall maria would depend on getting to it with supplies and actually killing every titan in the area long enough for the gap to be patched.

ignoring the fact that humanity does stupid things like building on breaks and in flood zones anyway, titans are attracted to massed humanity. the titans wouldn't be attracted to the ridges if there wasnt a lot of people in them.
realize that the cities have 2 gates. a break in the wall elsewhere means a loss of the entire wall. a breach at a ridge means the loss of 1 city. the only reason it didn't work is because the armored titan broke through the second gate.

[Rising Phoenix]

With the technology the humans have and the scale of the walls I think it's safe to assume that it took humanity a few hundred years to build them and as such the conflict with the Titans has been going for quite some time.

Also the inner wall is apparently made of titan flesh... I have no idea how they managed to do that (Unless I grossly misread)

Yeah the show is extremely flawed, but I guess that it still has some redeeming elements to it...

[Eric Tolle]

It is indeed a massively flawed series. To point out some of three problems, where is the martial arts tournament? And the magical girls defeating the Titans with the power off friendship? They don't even have the cute animal mascot, for Pete's sake!

Honestly, the creators of AoT obnoxiously don't know how to make a good anime.

[nyarlathotep]

With the technology the humans have and the scale of the walls I think it's safe to assume that it took humanity a few hundred years to build them and as such the conflict with the Titans has been going for quite some time.

Also the inner wall is apparently made of titan flesh... I have no idea how they managed to do that (Unless I grossly misread)

Yeah the show is extremely flawed, but I guess that it still has some redeeming elements to it...

Given the coded messages on the inside covers (yes i know I am a HUGE nerd) it seems like the walled city was found by the humans not built.

[t209]

Given the coded messages on the inside covers (yes i know I am a HUGE nerd) it seems like the walled city was found by the humans not built.
Why am I wondering that (spoiler from Manga)
the Titans were actually created to assimilate human.
step 1: eat and turn all human into titan.
step 2: after they're all gone, activate some possible eldritch thingy that involves shifter titan.
step 3: We have ant hive caste system of titans.

[Rising Phoenix]

Given the coded messages on the inside covers (yes i know I am a HUGE nerd) it seems like the walled city was found by the humans not built.

Welp that information is not available to me as I do not read manga...

As for the current episode. Hurray?

[t209]

I think I may have greatly differing tastes compared to many anime fans, and most of the shows I've been recommended were terrible enough that I stuck to watching HBO/Showtime series and later seasons of Supernatural for my television intake. Though I've recently given Madoka a second chance and enjoyed it far more than during my first attempt to watch it.

As for the latter part, the humans under siege story is only ever really shown nowadays as zombies, but I'd put it story content wise with zombie stories like dawn of the dead and non-zombie movies like Dog Soldiers. Zulu and 300 are kind of in the same boat, but it makes me feel really racist to compare them, or at least makes me think the film-makers are racist.
How about Gears of War? It's kinda hopeless siege story since they resorted to human breeding program and mass conscription against horde of monsters armed with guns.
P.S- Scouting Legion, X-Com agents, Imperial Guards, RTS game infantry, anyone in Song of Ice and Fire (who has the highest death rate).
P.P.S- Anyone who is complaining that highly trained characters being a angsty at facing a titan, there are cases where training and reality has high discrepancy (Plus we have many playgrounders who fought in war and see the reality after their training who will back you up).

[Scowling Dragon]

This seems interesting and has potential, but the mystery is either

A: Non existant and just made as to put the humans in a certain situation.
or
B: Going to be a gigantic letdown.

I donno. This does have the feel of a "Zombie Outbreak" story, even if there is no infection-esque thing. Its even been mentioned that Titans vomit up the humans they eat so no chances of them turning into Titans.

Also the "Only killed by targeting the neck first" is lazy and doesn't make sense and still seems easy to exploit. Tell me that in a hundred years (Even with not as much pressure for development...OK thats a lie. ALLOT of pressure for development) Humans couldn't develop a Cannon bullet that would exploit the weakness quite easily.

Seems to have potential, but I just don't think its likely it will rise up too its potential.

[LaZodiac]

With the technology the humans have and the scale of the walls I think it's safe to assume that it took humanity a few hundred years to build them and as such the conflict with the Titans has been going for quite some time.

Also the inner wall is apparently made of titan flesh... I have no idea how they managed to do that (Unless I grossly misread)

Yeah the show is extremely flawed, but I guess that it still has some redeeming elements to it...

The reveal is that the walls are full of titans who used their skin hardening ability to create a gigantic wall.



Also the "Only killed by targeting the neck first" is lazy and doesn't make sense and still seems easy to exploit. Tell me that in a hundred years (Even with not as much pressure for development...OK thats a lie. ALLOT of pressure for development) Humans couldn't develop a Cannon bullet that would exploit the weakness quite easily.

Seems to have potential, but I just don't think its likely it will rise up too its potential.

How is it lazy? Just curious. Because there IS a really good reason for it.

Also, the idea is that humanity has been pushed back so far that we're going BACKWARDS down the tech tree. It's why we're using cannons instead of surface to air missiles and horses instead of tanks.

[Scowling Dragon]

Not lazy but contrived as why from attacks aren't as effective as back attacks.

I sort of thought this made sense at first, but under deeper analysis realized that "No wait. It really doesn't".

But hey, its an excuse for cool action scenes.

[thubby]

Not lazy but contrived as why from attacks aren't as effective as back attacks.

I sort of thought this made sense at first, but under deeper analysis realized that "No wait. It really doesn't".

But hey, its an excuse for cool action scenes.

since when is exploiting anatomy contrived? any big game hunters will tell you that you that shooting a bear in all but a few places is a good way to waste bullets (and get eaten by a bear). that's a comparatively small thing to a titan and it's not in a fantasy setting.

as mentioned, the canons actually can and do kill titans. they're just woefully inefficient at it which is a big deal to a civilization living in a box.

[LaZodiac]

Not lazy but contrived as why from attacks aren't as effective as back attacks.

I sort of thought this made sense at first, but under deeper analysis realized that "No wait. It really doesn't".

But hey, its an excuse for cool action scenes.

It makes perfect sense, though.

The titans are essentially mech suits. The nape of the neck is where the pilot is. Destroying the head doesn't do anything since it's just meat and bone and air, that can just be "rebuilt" as it where. Yes, you can immobilize a Titan by causing lots of damage to it, but the only way to kill it is to excise the pilot from the nape of the neck.

As for why front attacks aren't as effective as back attacks, it's because there is so much flesh in the way if you attack from the front. Now, clearly the smaller titans are exempted from this, but they're small and thus don't matter as much.

[Scowling Dragon]

It makes perfect sense, though.


No it doesn't. I KNOW all the stuff you mentioned. Im saying why not just AIM FOR THE NECK. Even from the fron't a cannon that could blow off a head could blow off a neck.


they're just woefully inefficient

And I guess making "Magic Super ninja gear" is easier to make then a cannon that just rotates faster.

Would have actually made the anime more interesting and unique if its fight scenes focused on Large arms combat.

[LaZodiac]

No it doesn't. I KNOW all the stuff you mentioned. Im saying why not just AIM FOR THE NECK. Even from the fron't a cannon that could blow off a head could blow off a neck.

And I guess making "Magic Super ninja gear" is easier to make then a cannon that just rotates faster.

Would have actually made the anime more interesting and unique if its fight scenes focused on Large arms combat.

Yes, and sometimes their cannons DO succeed in killing one. But not always.

The implication is that it is, yes. It's silly, but it does fit the setting. They've been so pushed back people don't even know how to make faster cannons, but this one thing, this one stupid piece of exploration equipment, we managed to keep hold of that. It's our one main advantage.

And I disagree on that point.

[Flickerdart]

Im saying why not just AIM FOR THE NECK.
They're using smoothbore cannons. You can't really aim with those things, so much as fire and hope for the best.

[Scowling Dragon]

Eh.

Anyway I like the theory that:

The walls where never a safe haven for humans. They where a trap. Good one too.

I guess that the "Super Fast Anime fight thing" doesn't impress me....at all anymore. And that a focus on teamwork and coordination with slow ponderous cannons would be more interesting (At least for me).

[t209]

I just had a stupid dream based on the origin story flashback and watching The Pacific before sleeping.
The Humans were at ww2 stage (Sherman Tank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman)) when Titans attack.
I wonder why human didn't live on Island surrounded by deep trenches unless Titans can swim. It doesn't make sense that how Asians got wiped out (Eren's adopted sister is the last one) since they have Indonesia and island chains nearby unless the setting is in Alternate Earth with more land and less sea.
on the reveal:
It still doesn't make sense that the cult try to prevent renovations on the wall instead of creating a building code to prevent sunlight to come through and awaken the titan.
I initially thought that the manga was mainly about going on Titan (based on the cover) like God of War and Shadow of Colossus.

[Flickerdart]

I wonder why human didn't live on Island surrounded by deep trenches unless Titans can swim.
Do we have any evidence that suggests Titans are lighter than water and need to breathe? For all we know, they cross oceans the same way golems do, by walking along the bottom.

[thubby]

Do we have any evidence that suggests Titans are lighter than water and need to breathe? For all we know, they cross oceans the same way golems do, by walking along the bottom.

titans are substantially less dense than humans and humans are already buoyant.

[LaZodiac]

I just had a stupid dream based on the origin story flashback and watching The Pacific before sleeping.
The Humans were at ww2 stage (Sherman Tank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman)) when Titans attack.
I wonder why human didn't live on Island surrounded by deep trenches unless Titans can swim. It doesn't make sense that how Asians got wiped out (Eren's adopted sister is the last one) since they have Indonesia and island chains nearby unless the setting is in Alternate Earth with more land and less sea.
on the reveal:
It still doesn't make sense that the cult try to prevent renovations on the wall instead of creating a building code to prevent sunlight to come through and awaken the titan.
I initially thought that the manga was mainly about going on Titan (based on the cover) like God of War and Shadow of Colossus.

Concerning that specific reveal: The cult didn't want anyone investigating the wall, because if they did they'd notice "hey, this doesn't match anything we ever knew about building anything ever. It's too smooth, it's too rounded it's too...un natural, even for a wall" or something like that. They were worried doing ANYTHING with the walls would lead to someone asking the question of "how" and then discovering the titans.


Do we have any evidence that suggests Titans are lighter than water and need to breathe? For all we know, they cross oceans the same way golems do, by walking along the bottom.

A relatively strong scientist lady can kick a head around the same size as her like, 20 feet, like it was a beachball or something. Titans are pretty light, so swimming is something they likely can do.

Also, keep in mind that since the island areas are so small, it might take like, one or two titans at max to destroy them completely, if they're big enough. Thus it makes sense if the island areas got destroyed so utterly that Mikasa is the last oriental person that we know of.

[noparlpf]

I've been reading the manga since pretty early on, and I just found out there's an anime now too. I've been watching it the last two days and I was reminded of one of my big plot quibbles from the beginning:
Seems to me like there's a glaring flaw in the whole "have Titeren move the big rock to block the hole" plan. If he can move it, why shouldn't other titans be able to move it? Even if he's twice as strong as a normal 15m titan, there are loads of 10m+ titans wandering around in there, and even if they're not coordinated, the humans tend to congregate on the walls over gates, so titans would end up pushing against it anyway.

Anyway, it's pretty decent, if you can suspend disbelief regarding the titans and equipment and whatnot. I'm just waiting for the manga to explain stuff a bit better instead of constantly hinting at it.

[Flickerdart]

Seems to me like there's a glaring flaw in the whole "have Titeren move the big rock to block the hole" plan. If he can move it, why shouldn't other titans be able to move it? Even if he's twice as strong as a normal 15m titan, there are loads of 10m+ titans wandering around in there, and even if they're not coordinated, the humans tend to congregate on the walls over gates, so titans would end up pushing against it anyway.

Titans are dumb. They probably won't figure out that this bit of wall will give way while the other bits of wall won't.

[noparlpf]

Titans are dumb. They probably won't figure out that this bit of wall will give way while the other bits of wall won't.

But like I said, the humans tend to congregate above the gates, and titans push and claw at the walls as they reach for the humans. Why wouldn't they start to slowly push back the boulder? And anyway, they're apparently smart enough to smash through the wall of a building when humans are on the other side, even if they can't see them.

Edit: This shows the wall in the manga (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/89448/shingeki-no-kyojin_v4_ch14_by_gantz-waitingroom/52), with what appears to be a slightly smaller titan doing something to the rock that might be construed as pushing, or maybe just leaning or poking at.

Edit:

There is a specific point that needs to be destroyed: the base of the neck, close to where it meets the shoulders. If that's intact, the Titan is still alive. This is likely to do with the fact that that's where the person would be in a human-controlled Titan.

Or rather, where their spinal cord and brain would be. At least the anime keeps making a big deal about how it's one meter by ten centimeters.

[John Cribati]

Or rather, where their spinal cord and brain would be. At least the anime keeps making a big deal about how it's one meter by ten centimeters.

That was actually my first guess; That's approximately where the brain-stem would be on an actual human. Since it controls almost all of the body's involuntary processes, I just assumed it included the titans' regenerative properties.

[noparlpf]

That was actually my first guess; That's approximately where the brain-stem would be on an actual human. Since it controls almost all of the body's involuntary processes, I just assumed it included the titans' regenerative properties.

I think it's closer to vertebrae C5 or C6 on the titan, not anything in the brain itself. I don't think it has anything to do with the titan's brain itself considering titans with their heads entirely blown off (but with C5 and C6/the human body intact) can still move and regenerate, even without the lower brain centers. I think it's where the controlling human body's brain and spinal cord would be.

[Kato]

You know, I am pretty curious about those spoilers but it would be nice if they were tagged if not for episodes at least for manga or not manga spoilers consistently :smallfrown:

[t209]

When I read the manga, which I am afraid to proceed even though I read Berserk and grim dark franchises, it's kinda like gritty instead of smooth.
(Spoiler from Manga)
Maybe the titans had Airborne virus that turn humans into titans.
Mortality rate:
Scouting Corps, Imperial Guardsmen (non-badass conscript version), X-Com troopers, Star Trek Redshirts, WW1 infantry on Over the top charge.
- Who would be at top of it?

[noparlpf]

Mortality rate:
Scouting Corps, Imperial Guardsmen (non-badass conscript version), X-Com troopers, Star Trek Redshirts, WW1 infantry on Over the top charge.
- Who would be at top of it?

In terms of mortality rate, red shirts are lower than yellow/blue shirts/officers. More of them die, but it's a smaller fraction. Somebody did an analysis somewhere.

Edit:

You know, I am pretty curious about those spoilers but it would be nice if they were tagged if not for episodes at least for manga or not manga spoilers consistently :smallfrown:

Pretty sure nothing I've just said is from the manga beyond the anime thus far, besides a little speculation.

[LaZodiac]

You know, I am pretty curious about those spoilers but it would be nice if they were tagged if not for episodes at least for manga or not manga spoilers consistently :smallfrown:

Last I checked the only chapter that hasn't been turned into an episode yet is just two to three characters saying a bunch of cryptic stuff while Eren is forced to watch, ask what it all means, and then get ignored outright and explicitly mentioned in the "we're not going to explain this" speech.

[noparlpf]

Last I checked the only chapter that hasn't been turned into an episode yet is just two to three characters saying a bunch of cryptic stuff while Eren is forced to watch, ask what it all means, and then get ignored outright and explicitly mentioned in the "we're not going to explain this" speech.

Huh? They just put out chapter 47 and episode 13. Episode 13 is only up through about chapter 12-15, somewhere in there.

[LaZodiac]

Huh? They just put out chapter 47 and episode 13. Episode 13 is only up through about chapter 12-15, somewhere in there.

I wouldn't know I don't watch the anime.

[noparlpf]

I wouldn't know I don't watch the anime.

So why say "the only chapter that hasn't been turned into an episode yet" if you don't know where the anime is? There are thirty-odd chapters that haven't been turned into episodes yet. :smallconfused:

[BRC]

Mortality rate:
Scouting Corps, Imperial Guardsmen (non-badass conscript version), X-Com troopers, Star Trek Redshirts, WW1 infantry on Over the top charge.
- Who would be at top of it?

Are we counting PDF In the IG? Because if so, for every Guardsman who dies horribly in battle, there are probably a hundred PDF troopers and reservists who go their entire careers never seeing anything tougher than the occasional riot or an especially enthusiastic drill sergeant.
Or are we only counting IG who actually see serious conflict.

[Terraoblivion]

The training bits are a flashback that ends in chapter 18, if I remember correctly. And the closing scene of episode 13 is from chapter 19. Which means that with the bits of chapter 18 and 19 that haven't been adapted there is somewhere around 29 full chapters not in the anime so far.

[noparlpf]

The training bits are a flashback that ends in chapter 18, if I remember correctly. And the closing scene of episode 13 is from chapter 19. Which means that with the bits of chapter 18 and 19 that haven't been adapted there is somewhere around 29 full chapters not in the anime so far.

Oh yeah, I did notice a bit of the chronology being displaced. It's been quite a long time since I read the earlier chapters though, so I wasn't sure exactly how far things were being displaced.

[LaZodiac]

So why say "the only chapter that hasn't been turned into an episode yet" if you don't know where the anime is? There are thirty-odd chapters that haven't been turned into episodes yet. :smallconfused:

Because, although I had not seen the anime, I was under the impression that it was what I said it was.

[t209]

Are we counting PDF In the IG? Because if so, for every Guardsman who dies horribly in battle, there are probably a hundred PDF troopers and reservists who go their entire careers never seeing anything tougher than the occasional riot or an especially enthusiastic drill sergeant.
Or are we only counting IG who actually see serious conflict.
(Remembering the cool artillery and tanks in IG gameplay).
Yes, PDF counts.

[Kato]

So, I guess since we have the thread I may as well discuss it here instead of the General Discussion...

New episode?


I'm not sure if Hanji is supposed to be some Mengele-like character or if we are supposed to actually like her over her crazy antics and she actually is concerned with the Titans... Or if she is just plain crazy.


Also... for goodness sake, if these elites can take down the Titans by the dozen why are the normal troops that useless? Wait, I can answer that: Because their training revolves around scaring the **** out of them how powerful and invincible the Titans are and because apparently nobody ever taught any of them proper tactics. I guess it's kind of hard to estimate how big a usual Titan fighting force... well, they aren't really organized but a usual group of Titans is but if they can kill forty or so it seems they could rid easily an area of them given enough time and resources. And take out the stray Titan that would approach the wall once in a while.

[thubby]

So, I guess since we have the thread I may as well discuss it here instead of the General Discussion...

New episode?


I'm not sure if Hanji is supposed to be some Mengele-like character or if we are supposed to actually like her over her crazy antics and she actually is concerned with the Titans... Or if she is just plain crazy.


Also... for goodness sake, if these elites can take down the Titans by the dozen why are the normal troops that useless? Wait, I can answer that: Because their training revolves around scaring the **** out of them how powerful and invincible the Titans are and because apparently nobody ever taught any of them proper tactics. I guess it's kind of hard to estimate how big a usual Titan fighting force... well, they aren't really organized but a usual group of Titans is but if they can kill forty or so it seems they could rid easily an area of them given enough time and resources. And take out the stray Titan that would approach the wall once in a while.


or all the people who aren't ridiculously good at fighting titans are long dead.

also, we're seeing this group through eren's eyes. It's probably deliberate that the people best able to kill titans are near the one guy capable of turning into one.

[BRC]

or all the people who aren't ridiculously good at fighting titans are long dead.

also, we're seeing this group through eren's eyes. It's probably deliberate that the people best able to kill titans are near the one guy capable of turning into one.
I kind of imagine the Recon Troops like fighter pilots/flying aces.

The first few times out, chances are they are going to die. However, those that survive and get good, become REALLY REALLY good.

The normal troops are useless because they're paralyzed with fear the first time out. Those that get over their fear and acquire the skills to kill titans become very good at it.

[Flickerdart]

We saw how well regular Recon troops fare, and there's no reason to assume they got different training from the elites. They're just naturally better at all the stuff, sort of like Mikasa is better than most (or was it all?) of the other trainees.

[thubby]

We saw how well regular Recon troops fare, and there's no reason to assume they got different training from the elites. They're just naturally better at all the stuff, sort of like Mikasa is better than most (or was it all?) of the other trainees.

mikasa is better than most of the experienced fighters, too.

honestly, I thought this sort of elitism is something that japan really needs to stop with.

[noparlpf]

honestly, I thought this sort of elitism is something that japan really needs to stop with.

You mean how there's almost always that one perfect kid in the class? My issue is it's kind of cliche.

[thubby]

You mean how there's almost always that one perfect kid in the class? My issue is it's kind of cliche.

er... no. It's not a coincidence that the most powerful, competent character in the show is the only japanese one in the entire setting. :smallannoyed:

[Kato]

mikasa is better than most of the experienced fighters, too.

honestly, I thought this sort of elitism is something that japan really needs to stop with.


er... no. It's not a coincidence that the most powerful, competent character in the show is the only japanese one in the entire setting. :smallannoyed:
At first I thought you were referring to the usual trend in anime that there is (almost) always some special person who is a prodigy/genius/whatever and better than others.

On the Mikasa bit... I don't know. I feel like disagreeing. Okay, she's the only main character I can recall who has a Japanese name. But she doesn't really look Japanese. Yeah, they said she was of oriental (iirc) origin and like one of the last of her kind. But that's not the (in story) reason she's as badass as she is. She is because the trauma she experienced gave her - somehow - perfect control over her body. Which doesn't make that much sense but still. Also, we have no idea how she'd fare against Levi or so. (btw, I forgot, was she top of her class or second?)
Ans mainly... I never even noticed it so it can't be that blatant :smalltongue:


We saw how well regular Recon troops fare, and there's no reason to assume they got different training from the elites. They're just naturally better at all the stuff, sort of like Mikasa is better than most (or was it all?) of the other trainees.
As BRC said... the regular troops either cover in fear and get eaten or act like idiots and get eaten. But it can't be that hard to teach them how not to get eaten that easily. Really, for me it boils down to the fact that their basic training totally demoralizes them. Everyone but the elite and the soldiers at the very top of the food chain (with few exceptions) are scared ****less by Titans and as such their subordinates and recruits feel the same way. You can't win a war if you teach your soldiers they can't win anyway.

[BRC]

As BRC said... the regular troops either cover in fear and get eaten or act like idiots and get eaten. But it can't be that hard to teach them how not to get eaten that easily. Really, for me it boils down to the fact that their basic training totally demoralizes them. Everyone but the elite and the soldiers at the very top of the food chain (with few exceptions) are scared ****less by Titans and as such their subordinates and recruits feel the same way. You can't win a war if you teach your soldiers they can't win anyway.

it's impossible to fully train sombody to be mentally ready for combat, especially combat against somthing as terrifying as a Titan. There just isn't any way for them to recreate the full "You are zipping around while a giant is trying to eat you" experience in a safe environment.
Also, I kind of doubt a more positive approach to the training would help much. "The Titans have driven us to the brink of extinction, but YOU can definetly beat them!". Their entire culture is constantly reminded (by the walls) how dangerous the Titans are. This isn't just the training making them terrified of the Titans, its their entire culture.


As for Mikasa, she was top of the class. But the mantle of "Person the show won't shut up about how awesome they are" has firmly shifted to Levi.

[Rosstin]

Spoilers from Manga:
Any new ideas on what caused the Titans to exist?
• Technological origins would seem to flow with Eren's dad's crazy tech, especially now that we've seen other humanform titans who seem to have a cabal.
• OTOH, the apelike titan seems to indicate a kind of FF7-esque planet rebellion?
• Both of those theories seem kind of killed by the origin of titans being when humans were in a medieval state of tech development.

[BRC]

A thought I had earlier about one of the things I like about this show, or at least one unusual thing it does.

Eren is kind of unique (Not going to say absolutely unique, because as soon as I do somebody will post a list of 30 other things that do the same thing), in that he is a protagonist with extraordinary abilities, who is also powerless.

Before Trost, Eren was a decent soldier whose only real defining trait was his absolute hatred of the Titans. In a different show, that determination would have led him to success.
In this one, he got a heroic death.

Ever since that moment, the moment his abilities were revealed, he has lacked agency.

He was at the mercy of the garrison soldiers, surviving only because of Armin's words and Pixis' intervention.
He was helpless when he tried to lift the rock, only being brought out of it by Armin, only protected by Mikasa and the other soldiers.

he was helpless in front of the tribunal, only saved by the Recon corps.
He is the most powerful character on the show, but that power has not given him any agency. The show does not treat the Angry Titan as an extension of Eren himself.

Now, let's compare this to, say, Full Metal Alchemist.

Edward Elric is also part of a military organization. He also possesses an extraordinary ability (The ability to do alchemy without a transmutation circle). Like many similar characters, Edward is portrayed as also being highly talented outside his unique ability. In fact, his ability is in many ways an extension of his skill.

This is the case with plenty of protagonists (Esp in Shonen stuff). They are the best at what they do, and may have an extra something on top of that. Their skill and ability give them greater agency when it comes to achieving their goals.

Eren is not treated like that. The show dosn't act like he's a better or more impressive person because he can turn into the Angry Titan.

Here, let me throw an example at you.

The Justice League. Batman and The Flash are fighting something evil. Its a tough fight for them, however you know that if Superman was there the fight would be over in an instant.

That is how a lot of shows treat their protagonists. If the secondary characters are doing something, it's usually something the protagonist could do easily. This is why DBZ villains tend to punch their way through the supporting cast until Goku shows up.

In attack on titan, the supporting cast can legitimately shine because they're fighting very different battles than the protagonist.


Not saying this necessarily makes the show better, but its interesting.

[noparlpf]

Spoilers from Manga:
Any new ideas on what caused the Titans to exist?
• Technological origins would seem to flow with Eren's dad's crazy tech, especially now that we've seen other humanform titans who seem to have a cabal.
• OTOH, the apelike titan seems to indicate a kind of FF7-esque planet rebellion?
• Both of those theories seem kind of killed by the origin of titans being when humans were in a medieval state of tech development.


Haven't really figured it out yet. It's kind of implied they're made from humans (the village with the immobile titan that looked like the guy's mother, for example). As for how, dunno. Their low density is also interesting, but I don't know what to make of it. The wall suggests that the apocalypse was expected...building a wall of colossal titans would have taken preparation.
As for tech level, I kind of got the impression technology had regressed since the titans appeared. Simple cannons, firearms and whatnot would be about the limit of what they could easily re-develop. Most people now wouldn't even be able to re-create simple firearms, let alone computers or combustion engines, so it's to be expected that in a giant-zombie apocalypse technology would be mostly lost.

[Rosstin]

Eren is kind of unique (Not going to say absolutely unique, because as soon as I do somebody will post a list of 30 other things that do the same thing), in that he is a protagonist with extraordinary abilities, who is also powerless.


You know, you're right in a way, things don't magically start working out for him the way they do for a lot of anime protagonists.

Although, I can imagine him become a superpowered "I can do anythiiiiiiing" dude by the end of the series (in titan form)... I don't think that Eren alone will singlehandedly defeat all threats by his sheer power-of-love superpowers.

Attack on Titan shows that even Eren needs the support of all of the other soldiers protecting him in order to accomplish anything.

It's pretty neat, it's a little more mature than other anime.

[Nerd-o-rama]

er... no. It's not a coincidence that the most powerful, competent character in the show is the only japanese one in the entire setting. :smallannoyed:

Yeah. I mean, it's not like the big superior invincible hero in 99% of American stories is a white American guy, right?

[thubby]

Yeah. I mean, it's not like the big superior invincible hero in 99% of American stories is a white American guy, right?

the bulk of movies are also set in america, with the hero surrounded by people of every shape and size.
though among the top 10 grossing films 3 have non-american protagonists, and lotr is disqualified for being entirely high fantasy so 33% of them aren't.

I'm talking about the fact that anime often go to lengths to ensure anyone who is foreign is identified as 1/2 japanese in a medium where the only way to distinguish race is skin color.

[Finlam]

One random comment about AoT: For a human culture with exactly 1 asian, everyone sure acts very Japanese at times. /tongueincheek

[Nerd-o-rama]

the bulk of movies are also set in america, with the hero surrounded by people of every shape and size.
though among the top 10 grossing films 3 have non-american protagonists, and lotr is disqualified for being entirely high fantasy so 33% of them aren't.

I'm talking about the fact that anime often go to lengths to ensure anyone who is foreign is identified as 1/2 japanese in a medium where the only way to distinguish race is skin color.

Well, this is the US box office, but let's have a look (http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross)

#1: Avatar. White American man in space.
#2: Titanic. White Irishman (trying to immigrate to America, to be fair here)
#3: The Avengers. Ensemble of white American guys plus a Russian lady and Samuel L. Jackson.
#4: The Dark Knight. White American man.
#5: Star Wars Episode I. Fantasy (starring white dudes)
#6: Star Wars Episode IV. Fantasy (starring white dudes)
#7: The Dark Knight Rises. White American man.
#8: Shrek 2. Fantasy (starring a white dude, though let's give credit to Eddie Murphy and Antonio Banderas here)
#9: ET. Ensemble of American kids and a puppet.
#10: Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Man's Chest. Ensemble of white British colonists in a time prior to the American Revolution.

I'm just saying, every culture does this.

[Flickerdart]

#3: The Avengers. Ensemble of white American guys plus a Russian lady and Samuel L. Jackson.
Arguable. Hulk kind of transcends race by being green (sure, Banner's white, but he's there because of the Hulk, not because of himself) and Thor is a god who's merely played by a white actor.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Arguable. Hulk kind of transcends race by being green (sure, Banner's white, but he's there because of the Hulk, not because of himself) and Thor is a god who's merely played by a white actor.

So I guess they count the same as Shrek and the Star Wars guys, respectively?

[FatJose]

Well, this is the US box office, but let's have a look (http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross)

#1: Avatar. White American man in space.
#2: Titanic. White Irishman (trying to immigrate to America, to be fair here)
#3: The Avengers. Ensemble of white American guys plus a Russian lady and Samuel L. Jackson.
#4: The Dark Knight. White American man.
#5: Star Wars Episode I. Fantasy (starring white dudes)
#6: Star Wars Episode IV. Fantasy (starring white dudes)
#7: The Dark Knight Rises. White American man.
#8: Shrek 2. Fantasy (starring a white dude, though let's give credit to Eddie Murphy and Antonio Banderas here)
#9: ET. Ensemble of American kids and a puppet.
#10: Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Man's Chest. Ensemble of white British colonists in a time prior to the American Revolution.

I'm just saying, every culture does this.

Those are kind of bad examples. Besides Irish people not being considered fully white by most Americans until some time after the mid 1900s, the superhero movies are based on 60+ year old franchises from a less inclusive period, Avatar is Dances With Wolves, Star Wars is simply staying in line with the characters of the original three which are 70-80s movies and voice acting doesnt count.

AoT on the other hand is made in 2011, so really the criticism seems to come more from how blatant Japan is about their bias in the now. America does it, but they atleast try from time to time and we see the backlash when some thing suspect goes on. Japan is still mostly Japanese on paper, though. They havent had the need to not be jingoist or racist since there isnt a significant minority to push back. The half japanese bit is a thing, though. Especially if that other half is Korean, jeesh.

Oh, and Barbossa should be of spanish ancestry by the name.

[John Cribati]

Those are kind of bad examples. Besides Irish people not being considered fully white by most Americans until some time after the mid 1900s,
... They're considered white now. And he's still a main character of the movie.


the superhero movies are based on 60+ year old franchises from a less inclusive period,
And yet, whenever someone even jokingly suggests that we make one of the superheroes not a white person (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ULdm2NLrN4E&t=64), there's backlash and racial slurs and references to Shaft all over the damn place.


Avatar is Dances With Wolves,
I don't see how that makes it a bad example.


Star Wars is simply staying in line with the characters of the original three which are 70-80s movies

I don't see how that makes it a bad example.


and voice acting doesnt count.
Depends on who you ask.


AoT on the other hand is made in 2011, so really the criticism seems to come more from how blatant Japan is about their bias in the now. America does it, but they atleast try from time to time and we see the backlash when some thing suspect goes on. Japan is still mostly Japanese on paper, though. They havent had the need to not be jingoist or racist since there isnt a significant minority to push back. The half japanese bit is a thing, though. Especially if that other half is Korean, jeesh.

Okay, I can see how there is a sort of bias with Mikasa, the only Asian, being the best of the new recruits. Fine. I just... can't see anything wrong with that?

I mean, when an American film makes the Almighty White guy the hero, non-white people in the story will either be Magical People of Color who give him spirit visions or whatever, or else downtrodden, oppressed people that will be freed from their bonds with the aid of Mighty Whitey. (See: Game of Thrones Season 3 Finale).

Meanwhile, while Mikasa is portrayed as the most competent, it isn't done by dragging anyone else down. Every named character- most of whom are white with European names- has their moment to shine. Plus, I'm side-eyeing the implication that making her the best at something is racist.


Oh, and Barbossa should be of spanish ancestry by the name.

Spanish as in Spain, as in European and following European ideals.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Oh, and Barbossa should be of spanish ancestry by the name.

His accent and loyalties as a privateer be English, matey. I'd also call him a secondary character.

Also, I think it's meant to be a corruption of Barbarossa (Italian for "red beard" and frequently seen as an epithet or nickname in other languages) rather than the Portuguese/Galician Barbosa, but I have no source on that beyond my own head. Also the Wikipedia page for "Barbarossa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarossa)", but that's Wikipedia.

Oh, and his first name is the very English Hector. Well, very English transliteration of the Greek Ector, anyway.

[FatJose]

@Herpestidae

Time matters. Almost all those movies are inherently whitist becausemthey are either based on a whitecentric property or have to keep cohesion. Darth Vader needs to look like his offspring could reasonably look like Luke and Leia.

I'm not going to act like some historian and explain what "white" is or how it factors in to things. They are white now isnt an argument.

First off the main reason the list is bad, and I cant believe I didnt type it down before, is that it isnt relevant. Mikasa is not the main character so the comparison doesnt fit. She is superior because she is Japanese specifically, and in anime almost all exotic heroes are in some way Japanese.
In these American movies Nick Fury doesnt have to mention being half German. And many supporting cast members in those top movies are identified as specifically non-white without needing to have a caveat about their convenient mixed heritage or that theyre one of the good ones. Is America racist? Yeah. But I'd like to think the majority of people who have an issue with this Japanese obnoxiousness have the same problem with racism in American movies and not just when it is perceived as some how a slight against their own kind. I'm just as annoyed by the "black guy being the first casualty" or "whiteman saving everybody" as I am of "this ethnic is cool but dont worry he's one of us sort of."
"Everyone does it" isnt an excuse. In the same vein, I'm getting tired of this series for its awful pacing and complete flipping of what the show's genre and themes were. Does this happen often in fiction? Yes. That isnt a reason for me to like it.

And black Spiderman is stupid. Not that I particularly cared one way or the other. Also, they made Nick Fury black...HE WAS SHAFT.

EDIT: Hector is a spanish name too

[Nerd-o-rama]

I've never heard of black Spider-Man before, but I will defend Miles Morales to the end of whichever numbered Earth Ultimate Marvel happens on (which also happens to be the origin of Samuel L. Fury).

Anyway, I never said everyone doing it made it any better, I just think it seems weird to pick on one particular show from one particular country for it and then make two dozen excuses for ten things from a different country.

[Terraoblivion]

I'd like to point out that there are a lot of major anime with decidedly non-Japanese protagonists and heroes. Like most Gundam, Cowboy Bebop, Tiger and Bunny, Read or Die the TV, Trigun and these are just ones I can think off of the top of my head that are actually set on and around Earth. Gundam is especially relevant given how the highest grossing anime series ever is the original Gundam 0079 and Gundam as a whole is hugely influential.

Also, honestly, Mikasa doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme of things in AoT. Nor is she really the most amazingly skilled person ever, in it. The inner circle of the Legion are all more skilled than her and quite firmly white. Not just that, Armin's planning is pretty consistently more important than her skill and [spoilers] mean that a whole lot of other characters get to show off more than her. If anything, she needs to be that good just to stay relevant in the story.

I'd also say that America's obsession with white, male leads is a lot more problematic than Japan's preference for Japanese leads. Most Japanese fiction takes place in Japan which is extremely ethnically homogenous, to the point where a good chunk of the ethnic minorities they do have end up with Japanese names. So you'd expect most leads to end up Japanese by virtue of it being what most people there are and being anything else would be noteworthy. On the other hand, American fiction is set in a very ethnically heterogenous country and yet the leads almost always end up representing the privileged ethnic group. It's not like newer American properties are all that more likely to have black, Hispanic, Asian, middle eastern or Indian leads than they were twenty years ago. For that matter, white Europeans not seeking to become American or living before the US existed are that common as protagonists either and when they do show up, they tend to be British. So, yes, I think it's worse in the case of the US.

[FatJose]

I've never heard of black Spider-Man before, but I will defend Miles Morales to the end of whichever numbered Earth Ultimate Marvel happens on (which also happens to be the origin of Samuel L. Fury).

Anyway, I never said everyone doing it made it any better, I just think it seems weird to pick on one particular show from one particular country for it and then make two dozen excuses for ten things from a different country.

I thought the nitpick was about Japan's attitudes about race in genral. Who was making excuses for what? I was just pointing out extenuating circumstances. I think a better more recent example would be Lone Ranger. It took the original series and changed a lot if only to add more racism. You know who wasnt a mystic and played by a person of matching race? Tonto. Until the movie.

Also, while I find Miles Morales a shameless token to get the brown people's attention (even shamelessly adding that he would be bisexual if by popular demand...instead of, you know, making a solid character who just happens to be bi) I think the idea people had was that Donald Glover would be Peter Parker.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Who was making excuses for what? I was just pointing out extenuating circumstances.

Those are the same thing.

EDIT: And thankfully no one's actually going and seeing The Lone Ranger, to my knowledge. Although I think that movie's less the fault of the usual Hollywood machine and more due to Johnny Depp going full-on A-Scotsman-in-Egypt crazy.

[FatJose]

Those are the same thing.

EDIT: And thankfully no one's actually going and seeing The Lone Ranger, to my knowledge. Although I think that movie's less the fault of the usual Hollywood machine and more due to Johnny Depp going full-on A-Scotsman-in-Egypt crazy.

Are they? Comic book characters made before the civil rights movement are white. How could this be? the main 4 are white and the last two were used more as a way to link the rest of the movies together. They pushed by using black fury specifically because, well Sam is awesome either way, but also he isnt white and they give him plenty of presense over just playing Where's Waldo like most minorities. There are plenty of plans down the pipe for the black characters to start showing up. Hell, the Shield series sneak peek was centered entirely around who J.August Richard is playing as and they already revealed Falcon for 2.

I just dont see it, I guess. They're better reasons to shrug off some thing seemingly being racist than "All characters need a certain level Japanese to be eligible" since its a bit harder to explain those away.

@Terraoblivion
Those are all great series. They also are series that owe being great to not falling into every crappy cliche or atleast using them without feeling like theyre jus going over a checklist while creating some new ones.

EDIT: Also, I got a ways through 13 and I just couldnt keep on. I put some time into this, got my hopes up and I am pretty doubtful I am going to like this series based on where it seems to be going. The rock scene kind of clinched it for me. I've never seen so many rational human being suddenly become lemmings just to rack an even higher kill count. At a certain point my onlyreaction to the deaths of characters was "good".

[LaZodiac]

So, changing the topic to the manga...

Spoilers: Anyone got any theories about The Sasquatch, Ymir, and the "Human Titans".

I'm thinking Sasquatch MAY be Eren's Dad, and he was turning people into Titans to test how things are going. Ymir is a "natural" Titan, ie a Titan made before the series started.

As for the titans, "Human" or otherwise. Every Titan is basically a mecha, in my eyes. The body parts are super light so as to allow for their extreme movements.

[t209]

I mean, when an American film makes the Almighty White guy the hero, non-white people in the story will either be Magical People of Color who give him spirit visions or whatever, or else downtrodden, oppressed people that will be freed from their bonds with the aid of Mighty Whitey. (See: Game of Thrones Season 3 Finale).

Meanwhile, while Mikasa is portrayed as the most competent, it isn't done by dragging anyone else down. Every named character- most of whom are white with European names- has their moment to shine. Plus, I'm side-eyeing the implication that making her the best at something is racist.



Spanish as in Spain, as in European and following European ideals.
That would probably deconstructed in Season 4 if you read feast of crows and new asociaf books since daenarys wasn't that bright on leading an army.
Plus most characters are Germans or have Germanic names in AoT.
On origins of titans (manga spoilers)
so humans weren't at Ww2 stage when titans rise, like my the dream I had a month ago.

[John Cribati]

That would probably deconstructed in Season 4 if you read feast of crows and new asociaf books since daenarys wasn't that bright on leading an army.

That doesn't change the fact that the series ended with a pasty white woman being celebrated and called “mother” (or whatever that word was in the other language) by a sea of brown people.

[Kato]

That doesn't change the fact that the series ended with a pasty white woman being celebrated and called “mother” (or whatever that word was in the other language) by a sea of brown people.
It's kind of weird you would complain about the show not the book the story is based on...

But those people have every right to be thankful towards her, don't they?
Not saying I'm not thinking that white people get a lot more heroism than others in... many media but I tend to try to just ignore skin color if possible.

[John Cribati]

It's kind of weird you would complain about the show not the book the story is based on...

I, like a good number of people who watch the show, did not read the books. And from what I hear, the show is a fairly accurate portrayal of the events in the books anyway. Plus, whatever facts come up in the books to "justify" the scene does not mean the scene didn't happen.

PS: As a person of color, I cannot ignore something like the racial backgrounds of the characters in the media I consume.

[Nerd-o-rama]

The handy thing about reading the Game of Thrones books is you eventually realize that no one is portrayed as a good or admirable person, regardless of skin color, name, worldview, whatever. They're all either *******s or dead through their own stupidity.

Only reason I'd root for Dany is she's got the best odds of killing the most Westerosian politicians.

[Flickerdart]

Only reason I'd route for Dany is she's got the best odds of killing the most Westerosian politicians.
I'm not so sure about that - Cat of the Canals is a good contender for that honour too.

[BRC]

Okay, so what exactly is Levi's rank? I could swear it was "Corporal", but in the latest episode he has a squad and is suddenly going by Captain (Which makes more sense considering he is the Red Baron of titan killing).

[noparlpf]

Okay, so what exactly is Levi's rank? I could swear it was "Corporal", but in the latest episode he has a squad and is suddenly going by Captain (Which makes more sense considering he is the Red Baron of titan killing).

He's typically called "heichou", which means Lance Corporal in the Japanese military rank system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_ranks_of_the_Japanese_Empire_during_World_War _II#Enlisted_ranks).
Here's a page (http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/05/23/s/read4ddad0f7be9a5/IMG_0012.png) with a translator's note from one of the scanlation sites.

[nyarlathotep]

I, like a good number of people who watch the show, did not read the books. And from what I hear, the show is a fairly accurate portrayal of the events in the books anyway. Plus, whatever facts come up in the books to "justify" the scene does not mean the scene didn't happen.


Okay I am not trying to claim that scene didn't have racial insensitivity problems. However I think what Kato and the others would say justifies it in the books is that there the slaves of Yonkai are a racially diverse rainbow of colors. Which I guess makes it better, but the whole slavers bay thing always structure me as weird and not terribly well thought out economically.

[John Cribati]

Okay I am not trying to claim that scene didn't have racial insensitivity problems. However I think what Kato and the others would say justifies it in the books is that there the slaves of Yonkai are a racially diverse rainbow of colors. Which I guess makes it better, but the whole slavers bay thing always structure me as weird and not terribly well thought out economically.

I believe I responded to this already...


That doesn't change the fact that the series ended with a pasty white woman being celebrated and called “mother” (or whatever that word was in the other language) by a sea of brown people.

Whatever justification there is for the scene does not change the fact that the scene happened, and does not erase the problems with the scene itself.

[thubby]

I, like a good number of people who watch the show, did not read the books. And from what I hear, the show is a fairly accurate portrayal of the events in the books anyway. Plus, whatever facts come up in the books to "justify" the scene does not mean the scene didn't happen.

PS: As a person of color, I cannot ignore something like the racial backgrounds of the characters in the media I consume.

to be fair, im pretty sure the author and writers were trying to portray her as something akin to elven or fae.

[Nerd-o-rama]

to be fair, im pretty sure the author and writers were trying to portray her as something akin to elven or fae.

All I got out of the descriptions of the Targaryens was "devastatingly inbred".

...I really hope we're talking about Dany here because I'm starting to think this was a bit from after I stopped reading and not when she takes over the not-Mongols.

[Eric Tolle]

Eh, make all the excuses you want for that scene. But let's try reversing the situation: if a dark-skinned woman from the eastern contingent came to Westeros, freed the peasants, ended the war, maybe taught some Westeros men the meaning of" This thing you call love", and ended up with a crowd kneeling to her, would we get the same pardoned defenses, the same level of "No, it all makes sense, really"? Or would we get a perfect storm of nerd rage? Go ahead

Honestly, the level of whitesplaining in fandom infuriates me sometimes.

[thubby]

Eh, make all the excuses you want for that scene. But let's try reversing the situation: if a dark-skinned woman from the eastern contingent came to Westeros, freed the peasants, ended the war, maybe taught some Westeros men the meaning of" This thing you call love", and ended up with a crowd kneeling to her, would we get the same pardoned defenses, the same level of "No, it all makes sense, really"? Or would we get a perfect storm of nerd rage? Go ahead

Honestly, the level of whitesplaining in fandom infuriates me sometimes.

i don't think anyone would react because theres no negative historical context to invoke.
if you just take a priori that there can't be valid in-story reasons for things like that to happen then you're not thinking anymore and this stopped being a conversation.

so, that in mind, giant monsters trying to eat humanity. weird stuff, eh?

[Kato]

Eh, make all the excuses you want for that scene. But let's try reversing the situation: if a dark-skinned woman from the eastern contingent came to Westeros, freed the peasants, ended the war, maybe taught some Westeros men the meaning of" This thing you call love", and ended up with a crowd kneeling to her, would we get the same pardoned defenses, the same level of "No, it all makes sense, really"? Or would we get a perfect storm of nerd rage? Go ahead

Honestly, the level of whitesplaining in fandom infuriates me sometimes.
I would not give the slightest ****, honestly. I would possibly give one if it was a blue skinned person with orange polka dots all over but short of that... :smallsigh:



so, that in mind, giant monsters trying to eat humanity. weird stuff, eh?

I have no idea what you are talking about :smallbiggrin: (This is the most easily distracted forum I have ever been on :smalltongue:)



So, manga readers, how far is the manga compared to the anime? And is it worth reading the manga if I am already following the anime?

[thubby]

I would not give the slightest ****, honestly. I would possibly give one if it was a blue skinned person with orange polka dots all over but short of that... :smallsigh:




I have no idea what you are talking about :smallbiggrin: (This is the most easily distracted forum I have ever been on :smalltongue:)



So, manga readers, how far is the manga compared to the anime? And is it worth reading the manga if I am already following the anime?

the anime is ludicrously faithful to the manga at this point, but it's going to catch up very soon, you won't get very far ahead.
also, a lot of the value in this series is in the visuals. while the manga does great job of portraying the movement (seriously, bravo to the artist), there's no substitute for those aerial acrobatics in full animation.

[John Cribati]

i don't think anyone would react because theres no negative historical context to invoke.

This would be the standard response in... another internet setting. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlFuRzk8OnU)


People find it "odd" that Non-White people exist in Merlin, citing how it violates the "historical context" of England at the time. Which it doesn't, but keep in mind that in a setting where dragons fly around and wizards cast spells, someone being Black is what breaks everyone's suspension of disbelief.

When the Assassin's Creed III trailer came out, half the youtube comments were in the vein of "I'm not racist (and/or sexist), but why are they forcing me to play as a black person (and/or woman)?" People have gotten angry enough to boycott the game.

More recently, This recent Cheerios commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYofm5d5Xdw) needed to get its comments disabled because people were ~offended~ at the very idea of a biracial couple, and/or saying how lazy the father is for taking a nap.

Then there's the fact that any book that features a black character in the leading role gets automatically shunted into the "Urban" section where white people don't have to look at it. Or that anything that actively includes... just about anyone other than a straight white man... in a decent role is denounced as trying to garner attention by being too "PC."

Don't tell me that [white] people wouldn't get angry; they've done it before. I've seen them do it before.

So to bring this back to the discussion, is there some sort of bias with Mikasa being the most competent? Yes. Yes there is. But is she the only other competent person in this series? No. Are any of the other competent people getting s**t on just to make Mikasa look good? No. Does the show spend every active second praising Mikasa for being super-awesome? No. Hell, does Mikasa's awesomeness even have that large an effect on the plot? No. So I really don't see a problem with it.

[noparlpf]

So, manga readers, how far is the manga compared to the anime? And is it worth reading the manga if I am already following the anime?

The anime is up through the mid-teen chapters, so far, and I think we're up to chapter 47. The anime is mostly faithful to the manga so far. The manga is quite good. I've been following it since before the anime came out; I only found out about the anime a few weeks ago. If you want spoilers, go ahead and read the manga, not that much is explained.
Oh, one thing that I remember noticing changed: In the manga, Mikasa's mother was giving her a tattoo of the number 844 (which was that year). In the anime, they were embroidering.

[LaZodiac]

The anime is up through the mid-teen chapters, so far, and I think we're up to chapter 47. The anime is mostly faithful to the manga so far. The manga is quite good. I've been following it since before the anime came out; I only found out about the anime a few weeks ago. If you want spoilers, go ahead and read the manga, not that much is explained.
Oh, one thing that I remember noticing changed: In the manga, Mikasa's mother was giving her a tattoo of the number 844 (which was that year). In the anime, they were embroidering.

AH! That's what the numbers mean! Thanks for telling me about the numbers, Noparlpf.

[noparlpf]

AH! That's what the numbers mean! Thanks for telling me about the numbers, Noparlpf.

More manga speculation:
That's all I can think of...I'm pretty sure that was the year 844, anyway. Here's that page (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/6243/shingeki-no-kyojin_v2_ch5_by_gantz-waitingroom/37) for reference. I've been wondering about it for bloody ages, really. Also weird: Notice that in that scene, her mother doesn't have a tattoo on her right wrist, front (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/6244/shingeki-no-kyojin_v2_ch6_by_gantz-waitingroom/10) or back (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/6244/shingeki-no-kyojin_v2_ch6_by_gantz-waitingroom/9). So what's this about it being a clan tradition? Suspicious~

[Finlam]

Whatever justification there is for the scene does not change the fact that the scene happened, and does not erase the problems with the scene itself.

So he should have not written the scene to account for your perceived problems with it. No one should write and no show should portray anything that makes you somewhat uncomfortable or that you deem a problem. What was the problem again? O yes, she happened to be white. Not the slavery. Not the copious amounts of incest, sex, backstabbing, theivery, and gratuitous violence throughout the show, but that she was white.

That's even more ridiculous than caring that the most badass character in AoT happens to Asian (or half, whatever).

[John Cribati]

So he should have not written the scene to account for your perceived problems with it. No one should write and no show should portray anything that makes you somewhat uncomfortable or that you deem a problem. What was the problem again? O yes, she happened to be white. Not the slavery. Not the copious amounts of incest, sex, backstabbing, theivery, and gratuitous violence throughout the show, but that she was white.

That's even more ridiculous than caring that the most badass character in AoT happens to Asian (or half, whatever).

Kindly point me to where I said that my problem with the scene resided solely and completely on the fact that Dany was white. Because, last I checked, my complaint about the scene was that she's being portrayed as The Mighty Whitey, Savior of the Downtrodden Brown Folk, because that trope, in and of itself, is racist.

Of course, it's "ridiculous" that a black person would care about racism. I mean, it's not like racism kills or anything...

[LaZodiac]

More manga speculation:
That's all I can think of...I'm pretty sure that was the year 844, anyway. Here's that page (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/6243/shingeki-no-kyojin_v2_ch5_by_gantz-waitingroom/37) for reference. I've been wondering about it for bloody ages, really. Also weird: Notice that in that scene, her mother doesn't have a tattoo on her right wrist, front (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/6244/shingeki-no-kyojin_v2_ch6_by_gantz-waitingroom/10) or back (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/6244/shingeki-no-kyojin_v2_ch6_by_gantz-waitingroom/9). So what's this about it being a clan tradition? Suspicious~

Hmm, looking at that scene, I'm thinking that's not ACTUALLY what they're doing. Like, they aren't actually writing the year onto their hand. I can see why we'd think that, though.

Also, her mother likely doesn't have hers because they wanted to hide she was an oriental. Considering what happens, we can't be surprised at them wanting to do that.

[noparlpf]

Hmm, looking at that scene, I'm thinking that's not ACTUALLY what they're doing. Like, they aren't actually writing the year onto their hand. I can see why we'd think that, though.

Also, her mother likely doesn't have hers because they wanted to hide she was an oriental. Considering what happens, we can't be surprised at them wanting to do that.

Yeah, I'm not sure...I don't think that panel was just "hey guess what year it is", so I assumed it was the tattoo.
As for her mother...if it's a tradition, it would have been done to her anyway, and it's kind of hard to hide that you're the only Japanese in the community when it's fairly obvious visually.

[t209]

I read the manga and it doesn't a lot different from mangas that I read.
- The tone (Art one) is a bit like dark colored and gritty.
P.S- So do you think they might be in Germany or some german equivalent in another dimension.

[John Cribati]

I read the manga and it doesn't a lot different from mangas that I read.
- The tone (Art one) is a bit like dark colored and gritty.
P.S- So do you think they might be in Germany or some german equivalent in another dimension.

They've got to be somewhere in Europe at the very least, if only because it would be easier for Asians to get there, as opposed to the States.

[thubby]

the population is almost exclusively western and there's no ocean or significant bodies of water in sight and we've seen the city from miles above.


southern germany would be a good bet. perhaps bulgaria? the latitude lines up for the climate to be similar.

[noparlpf]

They've got to be somewhere in Europe at the very least, if only because it would be easier for Asians to get there, as opposed to the States.

There are already loads of Asians in the US. If we assume it's on Earth, it's easier to assume it's a post-apocalyptic scenario than an alternate-past scenario. That level of technological regression is perfectly reasonable.

[John Cribati]

There are already loads of Asians in the US. If we assume it's on Earth, it's easier to assume it's a post-apocalyptic scenario than an alternate-past scenario. That level of technological regression is perfectly reasonable.

If we take the kidnappers' word for it, Mikasa's ancestors were part of a clan that traveled from Asia to enter the walls. So it makes more sense- to me, anyway- that they're somewhere on the Eurasian landmass. And what with literally everyone else having European-sounding names (And the first line of the OP being in German) I'd bet it's somewhere thereabouts.

[Justyn]

If we assume it's on Earth, it's easier to assume it's a post-apocalyptic scenario than an alternate-past scenario. That level of technological regression is perfectly reasonable.

I'm curious as to why you say this. Having read through the entire series, there isn't anything to suggest either direction beyond the inside cover of the first volume of the manga (http://a.mtcdn.com/manga/p/7999/118773/5.jpg) showing what can be assumed from the text (the text is Japanese flipped upside down; I can't read it myself, but I've gone over translations) to be the initial flight from the titans.

I also remember a single panel somewhere of a person wearing plate armor facing down a titan, but I can't remember where it is, and I don't really have the better part of a day to read through the entire series again looking for, so I won't really make a claim as to that one.

[LaZodiac]

I'm curious as to why you say this. Having read through the entire series, there isn't anything to suggest either direction beyond the inside cover of the first volume of the manga (http://a.mtcdn.com/manga/p/7999/118773/5.jpg) showing what can be assumed from the text (the text is Japanese flipped upside down; I can't read it myself, but I've gone over translations) to be the initial flight from the titans.

I also remember a single panel somewhere of a person wearing plate armor facing down a titan, but I can't remember where it is, and I don't really have the better part of a day to read through the entire series again looking for, so I won't really make a claim as to that one.

He's saying it because they have explicitly said that it is. They've explicitly said that, originally, they had tons of tech, but as the Titans fought them back, tech was lost. The 3D Movement Devices are one of the only things that managed to survive to current day.

[Justyn]

He's saying it because they have explicitly said that it is. They've explicitly said that, originally, they had tons of tech, but as the Titans fought them back, tech was lost. The 3D Movement Devices are one of the only things that managed to survive to current day.

I'm sorry, I cannot remember for the life of me where that was said; could you please refresh my memory?

[LaZodiac]

I'm sorry, I cannot remember for the life of me where that was said; could you please refresh my memory?

I believe it was said early on, when talking about the stuff they can do to kill titans. They mentioned that in the past they had great explosive weapons capable of annihilating many titans in a single shot, and it showed what basically looked like a bunch of stinger missiles blowing heads off Titans.

[Scowling Dragon]

Wait what? The titans would be annihilated in modern times!

[John Cribati]

Wait what? The titans would be annihilated in modern times!

Depends on how many there are. And how quickly we respond. I could totally see a large-scale type of attack where hundreds of Titans show up at every military base, cut soldiers off from heavy weaponry, etc.

[Scowling Dragon]

This will either make sense once the Titans are explained, or make NO sense at all.

Maybe the Titans were MADE from soldiers?

[LaZodiac]

This will either make sense once the Titans are explained, or make NO sense at all.

Maybe the Titans were MADE from soldiers?

Well, manga spoilers but: Titan's are basically organic mechs that people turn into. So yes.

Also, keep in mind that during the initial fighting, we didn't KNOW that it was only the nape of the neck that would kill them. So not every titan got killed.

[noparlpf]

Actually, going back to the beginning of the manga, which I hadn't read in quite a while as I started shortly after the manga first started, it seems like it might actually be AU medieval times. There are a few images of the Titans first appearing, and people are wearing tunics, or firing old-school cannons from atop castle walls while wearing pointy hats (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/6242/shingeki-no-kyojin_v1_ch4_by_gantz-waitingroom/26). I dunno.

Also, apparently they did do black panels with the date to tell what year it is a few other times, which means that the '844' was just the year marker, and they don't show us Mikasa's tattoo at all. I'm still suspicious of her mother's lack of tattoo, though.

[LaZodiac]

Actually, going back to the beginning of the manga, which I hadn't read in quite a while as I started shortly after the manga first started, it seems like it might actually be AU medieval times. There are a few images of the Titans first appearing, and people are wearing tunics, or firing old-school cannons from atop castle walls while wearing pointy hats (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/6242/shingeki-no-kyojin_v1_ch4_by_gantz-waitingroom/26). I dunno.

Also, apparently they did do black panels with the date to tell what year it is a few other times, which means that the '844' was just the year marker, and they don't show us Mikasa's tattoo at all. I'm still suspicious of her mother's lack of tattoo, though.

Keep in mind that with all the lose of technology and culture, those books may of been made AFTER they were lost, and thus it changed how they look.

[thubby]

Depends on how many there are. And how quickly we respond. I could totally see a large-scale type of attack where hundreds of Titans show up at every military base, cut soldiers off from heavy weaponry, etc.

that would be a covert operation involving millions of people. setting aside the sheer impracticality of that, titans just arent that threatening to modern military technology.
there are over 100aircraft carriers in the oceans right now that could each retake any titan held position they wanted with impunity. titan's also can't do anything about satellites which means no loss of communications and about a billion other things. a modern tank would be nearly indestructible. these things break their own limbs hitting wood and stone buildings and are pierced by black powder canon balls, imagine a DU plated vehicle whipping high explosive rounds.

more realistically, they were in the industrial revolution when this happened. 3d gear is obviously a fantastical element but their basic operating principles are something from that era.

[lord_khaine]

So, changing the topic to the manga...

Spoilers:


I dont think the Sasquath is Eren's father, mostly on his curiosity regarding the 3D gear he saw someone jump around with.
I think its more likely that he is an original titan that has finaly awakend.

[LaZodiac]

I dont think the Sasquath is Eren's father, mostly on his curiosity regarding the 3D gear he saw someone jump around with.
I think its more likely that he is an original titan that has finaly awakend.


Yha, it's most likely that. Kind of like Ymir but more evil. Because Ymir is totally an original titan.

[Kato]

that would be a covert operation involving millions of people. setting aside the sheer impracticality of that, titans just arent that threatening to modern military technology.


Yeah... admittedly, they'd have somewhat of an advantage whil we don't know about the weak point but once that is common knowledge even a person armed with basic firearms should be able to fight them one on one. Or at least in small groups. Anything better is certaind eath for even a Titan.

[Jahkaivah]

So I had a shot at resyncing the new opening with the old one's song. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz3Glo1qvJE)

Edit: Aaand it get muted by copyright... god damn it...

[t209]

Yeah... admittedly, they'd have somewhat of an advantage whil we don't know about the weak point but once that is common knowledge even a person armed with basic firearms should be able to fight them one on one. Or at least in small groups. Anything better is certaind eath for even a Titan.
Well, Titans do regenerate if you do not hit at base of the neck (Ask some soldiers, doctors, big game hunters, or their relatives on this forum on certain weapons that would do big damage to it). That depends if Elephant guns or .50 cal sniper rifle work on these titans.

[lord_khaine]

Actualy, from what we now know, then even todays military would proberly not have had a chance to stop the apocalypse.


Because yes, modern weapons could certainly beat them in a straight fight.

But we have seen that they are actualy regular people, proberly under the effect of an inferior version of whatever gave the main char his titan power.

And that means we could have had titans popping up everywhere, smashing and killing the vital infrastruture that keeps society functioning. And resulting in enough loss of knowledge and production capability that the military cant be kept functioning.

[thubby]

Actualy, from what we now know, then even todays military would proberly not have had a chance to stop the apocalypse.


Because yes, modern weapons could certainly beat them in a straight fight.

But we have seen that they are actualy regular people, proberly under the effect of an inferior version of whatever gave the main char his titan power.

And that means we could have had titans popping up everywhere, smashing and killing the vital infrastruture that keeps society functioning. And resulting in enough loss of knowledge and production capability that the military cant be kept functioning.


covert operations are not a new thing. in truth, a well trained person could do as much or more with an IED than any kind of giant humanoid.
the first couple of days would be a mess but even an entire military's worth of people couldn't be at every significant population center.

but even suppose you manage to get the multiple millions of people ncessary to pull this off. you honestly expect to gather, train, and modify all of them with super science and have no one notice?

[Flickerdart]

but even suppose you manage to get the multiple millions of people ncessary to pull this off. you honestly expect to gather, train, and modify all of them with super science and have no one notice?
Enough royal babies and anything is possible.

[lord_khaine]

thubby, there is a reason for why that was kept in spoilers. It contained information that those who follow the anime doesnt have yet.

[thubby]

thubby, there is a reason for why that was kept in spoilers. It contained information that those who follow the anime doesnt have yet.

woops, thought the anime had gotten to that.

[John Cribati]

but even suppose you manage to get the multiple millions of people ncessary to pull this off. you honestly expect to gather, train, and modify all of them with super science and have no one notice?

The vast majority of America's food supply, and maybe even the world's food supply, is run through a company called Monsanto, which is more or less the result of some supeedvillain's attempt to take over the world. I’m pretty sure with this infrastructure in place, someone would be able to Titanify a good chunk of the population.

[Rosstin]

So, changing the topic to the manga...

Spoilers: Anyone got any theories about The Sasquatch, Ymir, and the "Human Titans".

I'm thinking Sasquatch MAY be Eren's Dad, and he was turning people into Titans to test how things are going. Ymir is a "natural" Titan, ie a Titan made before the series started.

As for the titans, "Human" or otherwise. Every Titan is basically a mecha, in my eyes. The body parts are super light so as to allow for their extreme movements.

I'm still expecting some kind of non-human explanation for the Titans existence. They're a strange mix of human and "alien" elements. The biggest question in my mind is... what causes the humans to be/aid the Titans? It's so hard to fathom their motives. I'm guessing they must have some ancient hatred, and many of them (Annie) are clearly incredibly jaded. I can't imagine the ape-like Titan being a human, but time will tell I guess.

[Flickerdart]

Well, the anime is now up to the female Titan, who seems to know where Eren is through some kind of sixth sense. Which doesn't really match up with her checking to see the identity of people. Or why she brought a Titan army with her if she only kills humans in self-defense.

[Terraoblivion]

I'm still expecting some kind of non-human explanation for the Titans existence. They're a strange mix of human and "alien" elements. The biggest question in my mind is... what causes the humans to be/aid the Titans? It's so hard to fathom their motives. I'm guessing they must have some ancient hatred, and many of them (Annie) are clearly incredibly jaded. I can't imagine the ape-like Titan being a human, but time will tell I guess.

Manga spoilers
The human titans seem to have different goals from the ordinary titans, given how they fear them too and have to fight them to stay safe. However, it's impossible to say what's going on given how the manga refuses to explain anything or even provide enough hints to really guess at things. It's kinda irritating really, since it doesn't even provide answers that hint at greater mysteries.

[Rosstin]

Manga spoilers
The human titans seem to have different goals from the ordinary titans, given how they fear them too and have to fight them to stay safe. However, it's impossible to say what's going on given how the manga refuses to explain anything or even provide enough hints to really guess at things. It's kinda irritating really, since it doesn't even provide answers that hint at greater mysteries.

The whole "other humans are Titans" thing was a huge shocker, though. I would never have expected the Colossal Titan to be a human, even after Eren gained a Titan power. Even if the Titans had been created by human technology, the Colossal Titan's behavior just seemed so alien.

I understand your frustration with all the mystery, but I think it would kill the suspense if we knew everything right away. At least Attack on Titan seems to have some kind of hidden internal logic behind it unlike other mystery-laden series I've watched recently. (Les Revenants, if anyone has seen/heard of that, seems to be heading for some Twin Peaks / Lost-esque non-conclusions.)

Given the manga author's careful attention to detail, I think that things will hang together and even seem somewhat predictable once we know the details. Like, check out Flickerdart's analysis of the anime. He's on the right track.

[Amridell]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296198

I made a thing.

[Finlam]

woops, thought the anime had gotten to that.

Honestly, having only watched the anime, I thought it was covered too. I guess it hasn't been explicitly stated yet so it it's kind of a spoiler to people who are not paying attention.

[Rising Phoenix]

So on the latest episode

I am pretty sure that the female titan is 'piloted' by than blonde chick that joined the police/whatever the safest position is called

[t209]

I wonder this thread is becoming like typical Game of Thrones TV series thread since people who read the book are ahead of the plot (Spoiler for Season 3 Finale)
Like a massacre on wedding with the color of blood, based on a historical Scottish Dinner with the color of darkness.

[LaZodiac]

So on the latest episode

I am pretty sure that the female titan is 'piloted' by than blonde chick that joined the police/whatever the safest position is called

Interesting theory. I don't actually know what the anime has shown about the Female Titan so I can't comment one way or the other.


I wonder this thread is becoming like typical Game of Thrones TV series thread since people who read the book are ahead of the plot (Spoiler for Season 3 Finale)
Like a massacre on wedding with the color of blood, based on a historical Scottish Dinner with the color of darkness.

Yeah, it's basically that :smalltongue:

[noparlpf]

So on the latest episode

I am pretty sure that the female titan is 'piloted' by than blonde chick that joined the police/whatever the safest position is called

Manga spoilers:
Annie? Yeah. Nailed it.

[Cobalt]

Preemptive tl;dr: Attack on Titan? Great anime. Very nice manga. I like to think about it a lot.

However. There is a problem.

My extreme issue with Attack on Titan is not with Attack on Titan. It's with The Eotena Onslaught, the alternate universe where characters and groups have multiple names. It is a place where apparently it is acceptable to romanize Levi's name as Rivaille or freaking Reveille (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reveille) instead of translating and spelling it the hell out as Levi. The real, German name of Reiner can be, with no one blinking an eye, Ryner, which I am beyond positive was made up by someone unaware that a place called Germany exists, who saw 'Reiner' and wondered with whimsy how the letters e and i would ever come together that way. "Don't worry," proclaims this hero, "I will save everyone the question and fix it." I'm not unconvinced spelling it 'Eren Yeager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Yeager)' isn't a joke (Eotena, too, but with more pretentiousness and less humor). In this topsy-turvy world, the Military Police Brigade are some German compound noun that no man alive can spell, or say, and that probably isn't even proper German. The Garrison is indecisively referred to as the Stationary Guard or the Stationary Corps. The Survey Corps is simultaneously the Recon Legion, the Recon Corps, and the Scouting Group, and no one looking to join knows whether to report to Erwin or Irvin.

But these are all minor complaints, that I've gotten used to, and I've accepted the collective disagreement on translation as simple realty. No one alive and moral, however, can justify to me calling them 'Giants'. Not at this point. That's unacceptable.


So anyway. I did a manga-read marathon the other night when I couldn't handle the weekly nature of the show, and my jaw may or may not hurt from dropping over and over again. I'm all caught up, and a little itchy.

AoT leaves me wanting answers so badly.

Manga Spoilers and my comments/theories:
So the reveal of who the Armored and Colossal Titans are was handled a little less than what I was hoping for in the manga. I'm hoping the anime will flash it up a bit with dramatic music, closeups of Eren's eyes, and disorienting camera angles, because cramming the "this is who we are" moment into the background of a corner panel, even though it was followed by a lot that was more fitting and impressive, was less than stellar. Everything that followed did not disappoint.

However, I thought that Annie's scenes were all amazing. I liked the parts we saw briefly in the Military Police. Her clear disdain for the majority of humanity, calling good people "special" and herself and normal people (not that she's very normal) selfish really gives me teasers for what lies ahead. Are the human Titans all thinking this? This so-called 'hometown', is it full of human Titan cultists or something, wanting to cleanse/end humanity? I think the part about killing all of humanity is accurate, but why? I'm really curious about the opinions the human Titans have, and their motivations.

I really, really like when Eren gets mad at the human Titans, but I'm sad they dropped it with them shutting him up about it and being all cryptic. (Isn't their semi-obvious goal to incorporate Eren into their plans anyway?) I feel like this series spells out things well enough; it's been pretty good about saying what we're looking at without saying it while we're looking at it. It's just that that pacing does grate after a while. "I want to know soon," you know?

Am I the only one who saw the panel where Mikasa looks at the Colossal Titan's face that's in the wall and thought, "Is there a Titan that just smashed its face through the wall?" I didn't see the reveal coming, so it took me a second to get that it was actually inside the wall.

And what was with the scene at Castle Utgard scene with the canned food? Since Ymir could read it, was there some implication that Titans have some special written language? Or that human Titans like Ymir do? And that human Titans used that castle, and therefore the space inside the walls, before or with non-Titan humans? Did I misread entirely in my stupor? How old was that place, older than the walls?

Also, just thought a bit about this: Eren's father injected him with chemicals and gave him the key before vanishing, right? I always assumed that those chemicals were the reason Eren could turn into a Titan. But what if they're actually not, and he was a human Titan to begin with; what if the chemicals actually are how Eren is able to control his Titan powers, or come back from it? He lost control before, I remember, but maybe that was how he would have stayed if not for the injections; just like any other Titan, out to attack humans. Or, maybe they just gave him amnesia or something. Hmm.

And that side story chapter, 18.5, when the Titan mistook that scout for Ymir's human form: I thought that maybe it 'figured out' that it wasn't Ymir, and that's why it ate her, but it actually looked like it was crying with how the blood was flowing from its torn eye sockets. Maybe that Titan thought it was eating Ymir, and couldn't control itself despite respecting or knowing her? Hmm...
Or maybe it didn't actually think she was Ymir, and literally was bowing to one of "Ymir's people". Which makes the fact that it ate her while crying unspeakably unsettling.
...Well, it really is either way, yeah?

More Manga Spoilers and my indirect responses to some of what's been discussed in this thread:
I don't know about the Beast Titan, or whatever they're calling it; in that I have very few clues on what to think about it. From Armored and Colossal's reactions to seeing it, they clearly knew about it. But it isn't clear to me if they've interacted with the thing themselves, or merely knew about it; like some legendary "Titan God" or something they were told of/searching for.

I'm thinking it may be the original Titan, and I think it's what turned Connie's village into Titans. Don't know if it's been 'asleep' or what; clearly was enough out of the loop to not have encountered humans for a long time with saying that it 'thought' it spoke the same language as humans, and it didn't recognize the 3-D Maneuver Gear. I'm unconvinced that it's responsible directly for any of the human Titans we know of, except maybe Ymir, but it may be the reason Titans showed up in the first place.

(Humorously, when it first appeared, went for the horse, and was pointed out to be furry, I thought, "Is this an animal-type Titan that ignores humans and eats animals?" Then, no, it just wanted to throw the horse at the guy and have a chat. Welp. What could have been one is instead another.

It could have been an interesting addition to have animal Titans, which would just seem completely oblivious to humans, wondering around, and it would have been a perfect time to introduce them; he needs his horse, where's his horse? Oh there it is-- Oh. It's being eaten. Nice. Wonder how they'd have interacted with normal Titans? Accidentally cooperating to kill humans by eating the horses out from under them in a battle, throwing them to the normal Titans? We'll never know.)

As for Ymir, I don't think she's an "original" Titan. She was a Titan outside the walls for 60 years she said; the walls have been up with humans inside for at least 100. What that tells me is that she was born outside the walls, either born/created as a Titan (implying that all Titans can be turned into humans in some way), or born human and then made into a Titan (possibly by the Beast Titan with the fur?). Alternatively, she came from the walls, left, and was turned into a Titan for 60 years. Wonder how she got back in?

And a spoiler-filled question:
Any theories out there as to why some human Titans have skin and some don't? Power/ability maybe? It seems too specific a thing to me for it to not mean something. Maybe it has to do with their ability to produce that crystal/wall/armor. Clearly the human Titans in that faction that Reiner, Bertholdt and Annie are in are doing something different than Ymir and Eren, and every normal Titan, so maybe what "it" is is the reason. Guesses?

[John Cribati]

The real, German name of Reiner can be, with no one blinking an eye, Ryner, which I am beyond positive was made up by someone unaware that a place called Germany exists, who saw 'Reiner' and wondered with whimsy how the letters e and i would ever come together that way.

Well, I like to think that it's a purposeful choice, A La The Hunger Games to show that the language has changed, for the worse, in the hundred years of constant giant attacks.

[Rosstin]

To be clear, I think Cobalt's rant was about a particular subtitling group that seems to make some rather silly translation choices. :smallbiggrin:

In particular they translate Titans as Eotans, which is a bit baffling, given that even Kyojin would have been a better "translation".

Here we go:
http://pastebin.com/y564U7QE

Prepare your face to be slapped by your hand.

[Esprit15]

So, having only seen the anime, I kind of concur with a lot of what was said, positive and negative.

One thing that I didn't see mentioned by anyone was that a common theme in it seems to be meaning to death. At the beginning, we have a mother who is asking if her son's death at least was useful, only to find that it was not. We have 20% of the population sent to die to prevent mass starvation. The Titans kill for what seems to be pleasure, not out of any need for nourishment. Dying to serve humanity is often repeated, with many people coming to find this to be not at all reassuring when they themselves are faced with a Titan.

Am I the only one who saw this?

[noparlpf]

To be clear, I think Cobalt's rant was about a particular subtitling group that seems to make some rather silly translation choices. :smallbiggrin:

In particular they translate Titans as Eotans, which is a bit baffling, given that even Kyojin would have been a better "translation".

Here we go:
http://pastebin.com/y564U7QE

Prepare your face to be slapped by your hand.

Yeah...my friend and I accidentally found that group's subs when I was introducing him to it. I think I've been using gg for SnK.

[LaZodiac]

So the reveal of who the Armored and Colossal Titans are was handled a little less than what I was hoping for in the manga. I'm hoping the anime will flash it up a bit with dramatic music, closeups of Eren's eyes, and disorienting camera angles, because cramming the "this is who we are" moment into the background of a corner panel, even though it was followed by a lot that was more fitting and impressive, was less than stellar. Everything that followed did not disappoint.

However, I thought that Annie's scenes were all amazing. I liked the parts we saw briefly in the Military Police. Her clear disdain for the majority of humanity, calling good people "special" and herself and normal people (not that she's very normal) selfish really gives me teasers for what lies ahead. Are the human Titans all thinking this? This so-called 'hometown', is it full of human Titan cultists or something, wanting to cleanse/end humanity? I think the part about killing all of humanity is accurate, but why? I'm really curious about the opinions the human Titans have, and their motivations.

I really, really like when Eren gets mad at the human Titans, but I'm sad they dropped it with them shutting him up about it and being all cryptic. (Isn't their semi-obvious goal to incorporate Eren into their plans anyway?) I feel like this series spells out things well enough; it's been pretty good about saying what we're looking at without saying it while we're looking at it. It's just that that pacing does grate after a while. "I want to know soon," you know?

Am I the only one who saw the panel where Mikasa looks at the Colossal Titan's face that's in the wall and thought, "Is there a Titan that just smashed its face through the wall?" I didn't see the reveal coming, so it took me a second to get that it was actually inside the wall.

And what was with the scene at Castle Utgard scene with the canned food? Since Ymir could read it, was there some implication that Titans have some special written language? Or that human Titans like Ymir do? And that human Titans used that castle, and therefore the space inside the walls, before or with non-Titan humans? Did I misread entirely in my stupor? How old was that place, older than the walls?

Also, just thought a bit about this: Eren's father injected him with chemicals and gave him the key before vanishing, right? I always assumed that those chemicals were the reason Eren could turn into a Titan. But what if they're actually not, and he was a human Titan to begin with; what if the chemicals actually are how Eren is able to control his Titan powers, or come back from it? He lost control before, I remember, but maybe that was how he would have stayed if not for the injections; just like any other Titan, out to attack humans. Or, maybe they just gave him amnesia or something. Hmm.

And that side story chapter, 18.5, when the Titan mistook that scout for Ymir's human form: I thought that maybe it 'figured out' that it wasn't Ymir, and that's why it ate her, but it actually looked like it was crying with how the blood was flowing from its torn eye sockets. Maybe that Titan thought it was eating Ymir, and couldn't control itself despite respecting or knowing her? Hmm...
Or maybe it didn't actually think she was Ymir, and literally was bowing to one of "Ymir's people". Which makes the fact that it ate her while crying unspeakably unsettling.
...Well, it really is either way, yeah?

More Manga Spoilers and my indirect responses to some of what's been discussed in this thread:
I don't know about the Beast Titan, or whatever they're calling it; in that I have very few clues on what to think about it. From Armored and Colossal's reactions to seeing it, they clearly knew about it. But it isn't clear to me if they've interacted with the thing themselves, or merely knew about it; like some legendary "Titan God" or something they were told of/searching for.

I'm thinking it may be the original Titan, and I think it's what turned Connie's village into Titans. Don't know if it's been 'asleep' or what; clearly was enough out of the loop to not have encountered humans for a long time with saying that it 'thought' it spoke the same language as humans, and it didn't recognize the 3-D Maneuver Gear. I'm unconvinced that it's responsible directly for any of the human Titans we know of, except maybe Ymir, but it may be the reason Titans showed up in the first place.

(Humorously, when it first appeared, went for the horse, and was pointed out to be furry, I thought, "Is this an animal-type Titan that ignores humans and eats animals?" Then, no, it just wanted to throw the horse at the guy and have a chat. Welp. What could have been one is instead another.

It could have been an interesting addition to have animal Titans, which would just seem completely oblivious to humans, wondering around, and it would have been a perfect time to introduce them; he needs his horse, where's his horse? Oh there it is-- Oh. It's being eaten. Nice. Wonder how they'd have interacted with normal Titans? Accidentally cooperating to kill humans by eating the horses out from under them in a battle, throwing them to the normal Titans? We'll never know.)

As for Ymir, I don't think she's an "original" Titan. She was a Titan outside the walls for 60 years she said; the walls have been up with humans inside for at least 100. What that tells me is that she was born outside the walls, either born/created as a Titan (implying that all Titans can be turned into humans in some way), or born human and then made into a Titan (possibly by the Beast Titan with the fur?). Alternatively, she came from the walls, left, and was turned into a Titan for 60 years. Wonder how she got back in?

And a spoiler-filled question:
Any theories out there as to why some human Titans have skin and some don't? Power/ability maybe? It seems too specific a thing to me for it to not mean something. Maybe it has to do with their ability to produce that crystal/wall/armor. Clearly the human Titans in that faction that Reiner, Bertholdt and Annie are in are doing something different than Ymir and Eren, and every normal Titan, so maybe what "it" is is the reason. Guesses?

Response!: We generally call the Beast Titan "The Sasquatch" cause he's a big ole hairy dude. It's basically outright stated that he created the Titan's. At least it was to me, the way all the implied information piles up, it might as well be a statement.

I believe the idea of the can was that it has Japanese or another language written on it. In the intervening years since Ymir's creation the language may of been lost. As for the Titan that was saying "Ymir's People..." it's entirely likely that he was trying to convey SOME sort of thought to that explorer, perhaps trying to become LIKE Ymir and not be a rage powered flesh monster, but was unable to do it.

My guess is that the presence or lack of skin is just a design choice. The special titans have special abilities and thus would look different as a result. Truth be told I don't think Ymir is a Special Titan like Eren and the others. Also, the only one who's powers justifies it's abilities are the Flayed Titan, who's power is to expel huge amounts of steams. We've seen quite clearly that when a Titan is wounded, steam flies everywhere. Thus, a Titan with it's entire body "wounded" by it's lack of skin, it'd be able to explode into steam at a moments notice.

[LaZodiac]

New Chapter!

Spoilers:....AHAHAGHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAAH

"EVERYONE HAS FAULTS CHRISTA. IF YOU IGNORE THAT THEY EAT PEOPLE THEY'RE NOT ALL THAT BAD."

BEST MANGA EVER.

[noparlpf]

New Chapter!

Spoilers:....AHAHAGHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAAH

"EVERYONE HAS FAULTS CHRISTA. IF YOU IGNORE THAT THEY EAT PEOPLE THEY'RE NOT ALL THAT BAD."

BEST MANGA EVER.

Yeah, that line...

[thubby]

New Chapter!

Spoilers:....AHAHAGHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAAH

"EVERYONE HAS FAULTS CHRISTA. IF YOU IGNORE THAT THEY EAT PEOPLE THEY'RE NOT ALL THAT BAD."

BEST MANGA EVER.
manga
the stupid, it burns!

the sad thing is, a decent excuse wouldn't be that hard. it would have been just as easy to give her a line about freedom, about the horizon, etc.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, that line...


manga
the stupid, it burns!

the sad thing is, a decent excuse wouldn't be that hard. it would have been just as easy to give her a line about freedom, about the horizon, etc.

Now, to be perfectly fair, it DOES make sense why Ymir says that line, her reasoning is sound. It's just...so silly and out of left field I love it.

Also: We learn that Ymir is CERTAINLY not an original titan since apparently she STOLE IT from the Flayed and Armoured Titan! Interesting!

[Rising Phoenix]

Having viewed the latest episode it can only confirm that even the survey team is filled with idiots...:smallsigh:

[t209]

Having viewed the latest episode it can only confirm that even the survey team is filled with idiots...:smallsigh:
Thank you, idiot king of the wall.

[Flickerdart]

http://i.imgur.com/kLa9j6l.png

[LaZodiac]

http://i.imgur.com/kLa9j6l.png

I approve of all of this.

[John Cribati]

Between Teen Wolf and this show, I need about that much alcohol every Monday and Saturday night.

[Cobalt]

http://i.imgur.com/kLa9j6l.png

I... I don't know what to say...

[t209]

http://i.imgur.com/kLa9j6l.png
So Erin Jaegar might drink Jaegar Meister.
Peppermint Schnapps for the Germans.

[Rising Phoenix]

I approve of all of this.

Me too... actually I could use some of that meself :P

[Kato]

So Erin Jaegar might drink Jaegar Meister.
Peppermint Schnapps for the Germans.
Peppermint Schnaps really isn't that tasty... there's worse but also much better. Jägermeister is actually pretty good, but you get a pretty bad hangover if you're not careful.


Me too... actually I could use some of that meself :P
I'd ask what exactly you're referring to but I'm afraid I know the answer. Since it's the same I'd be giving.


I've been a bit behind on the anime and still catching up on the manga (end of volume four now, I think) but regarding the latest episode(s)


Am I the only one thinking Armin is jumping to conclusions? Admittedly. he is probably right for the sake of plot but assuming a Titan just because he is intelligent must be a human even though Eren!Titan really didn't look anything like the other three (as in, lacking skin to begin with) it seems like a pretty far fetched idea they are dealing with a human, not just... well, a Titan with a brain.
Also, if the other Titans were as smart and coordinated as the female I could see why they are such a bother. Compared to the walking idiots they had to deal with so far.

[John Cribati]

Am I the only one thinking Armin is jumping to conclusions? Admittedly. he is probably right for the sake of plot but assuming a Titan just because he is intelligent must be a human even though Eren!Titan really didn't look anything like the other three (as in, lacking skin to begin with) it seems like a pretty far fetched idea they are dealing with a human, not just... well, a Titan with a brain.

The other Titans were not as smart as the Female though. And while Titans do weird things by Titan standards are a thing- they have an "Aberrant" designation for a reason- it's a given that nobody had ever seen a smart titan before. And if it can think like a human... and it's possible for humans to turn into titans, that makes the most sense than if one random titan just grew a brain. Plus, the only other Titan that hasn't even tried to eat a human was... Eren, so there's that.

[TSGames]

http://i.imgur.com/kLa9j6l.png

I saw that person at Otacon! Very nice cosplay.

[t209]

Peppermint Schnaps really isn't that tasty... there's worse but also much better. Jägermeister is actually pretty good, but you get a pretty bad hangover if you're not careful.

Maybe I've been reading too much Battletech.

[Rising Phoenix]

I'd ask what exactly you're referring to but I'm afraid I know the answer. Since it's the same I'd be giving.


[/spoiler]

Booze, glorious booze... it's required sometimes... :smalltongue:

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I finally caught up through Episode 17, since I'm watching on Hulu.

GAH! FINAL-FRICKIN-LY PAST THE BATTLE OF TROST! Y'know, the one where they couldn't manage to put a frickin' rock in a frickin' hole over the span of nine whole episodes. Or, rather, it took nine episodes...whatever.

But the subsequent episodes are winning me back over. The way that they're fleshing out the puzzle of "what/who are the Titans" is really interesting, and I'm intrigued by this new female Titan, who is apparently the new character I noticed showing up in the OP. Arch-villain? Double agent? Figure with her own agenda? WHO CAN SAY???? :smalltongue:

So, I'm enjoying it again, which is good. Because I'm a patient viewer, and Trost tried even my patience. I hope they don't pull that again.

I mean, gah. That's 75% of Madoka or Baccano! in the same space of the Attack on Trost...which is kinda depressing

[TSGames]

I finally caught up through Episode 17, since I'm watching on Hulu.

GAH! FINAL-FRICKIN-LY PAST THE BATTLE OF TROST! Y'know, the one where they couldn't manage to put a frickin' rock in a frickin' hole over the span of nine whole episodes. Or, rather, it took nine episodes...whatever.

But the subsequent episodes are winning me back over. The way that they're fleshing out the puzzle of "what/who are the Titans" is really interesting, and I'm intrigued by this new female Titan, who is apparently the new character I noticed showing up in the OP. Arch-villain? Double agent? Figure with her own agenda? WHO CAN SAY???? :smalltongue:

So, I'm enjoying it again, which is good. Because I'm a patient viewer, and Trost tried even my patience. I hope they don't pull that again.

I mean, gah. That's 75% of Madoka or Baccano! in the same space of the Attack on Trost...which is kinda depressing
You make some good points. I'll take it a bit farther.

I think Attack on Titan is actually a bad anime, however, it is pretty enough to make up for its glaring flaws. The plot is predictable i.e. most plot twists would difficult to not figure out beforehand, the characters are linear and the author seems to think that backstory counts as character development, not to mention that most of the characters are only thinly veiled stereotypes. However, it is very very well animated, the action sequences are nice and that goes for miles to cover up its massive flaws. I'll keep watching, but I think you would be hard pressed to call the writing of this anime 'good' on any meaningful level.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

You make some good points. I'll take it a bit farther.

I think Attack on Titan is actually a bad anime, however, it is pretty enough to make up for its glaring flaws. The plot is predictable i.e. most plot twists would difficult to not figure out beforehand, the characters are linear and the author seems to think that backstory counts as character development, not to mention that most of the characters are only thinly veiled stereotypes. However, it is very very well animated, the action sequences are nice and that goes for miles to cover up its massive flaws. I'll keep watching, but I think you would be hard pressed to call the writing of this anime 'good' on any meaningful level.
For me, the biggest thing the show has going for it is the setting (and, like you said, the awesome visuals). I really enjoy seeing the setting spin out and get uncovered, piece by piece. One of the main reasons why the Trost arc irked me so much. Well, okay--and I like Armin the Smartie and Sasha the Potato Girl, and though Mikasa is basically a standard vulnerable badass, I still appreciate her.

Other note: I've been really coming to prefer the second OP, especially after listening to the full version. Which is weird. I like to think of it as the overlooked younger sibling, because the first opening is so awesomely bombastic and memetic that everybody wants it back.

[t209]

Reading Attack on Titan (the one where (Spoiler from Anime and Manga)
Eren was eaten and Armin was coward.) and Zulu's beginning scene.
Gory.
Plus the manga's art are kind of sketchy and dark.

[John Cribati]

Reading Attack on Titan (the one where (Spoiler from Anime and Manga)
Eren was eaten and Armin was coward.) and Zulu's beginning scene.
Gory.
Plus the manga's art are kind of sketchy and dark.

I find it really hard to follow the action in the manga. The only way I kept reading was by telling myself “this’ll be clearer in the anime.”

[Flickerdart]

New episode:

Hooray, more flashbacks for character development. Also, even if Eren needs a purpose to transform into a Titan I don't really see why his regeneration wouldn't work without that purpose. After all, his tooth grew back and he didn't transform anywhere near that time.

[t209]

Reading Volume 1 of Attack On Titan,
Never knew that Stationary Guard were like Royal Guard, useless and corrupt. No wonder to viewers supported the Survey Corps.

[Flickerdart]

http://i.imgur.com/c5yn2O4.jpg


http://www.whatsupyasieve.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/minion.gif

[Cobalt]

Yessss. Reading the manga and saying, "I can't wait to see this animated and voiced", and then seeing it meet all your expectations is truly the best feeling.

I really like the Female Titan arc.

So this was to be 25 episodes, right? Any manga readers have a guess as to where they might stop it for the season?

They might drag out the Female Titan arc to the end of the season actually. In my opinion I can't imagine them catching up to where the volumes are now and satisfying the current reveals/chase scenes. It'll be such a painful wait for season 2~

[t209]

Isn't it ironic that Scouting Legion (Commandoes with large Budget Cut, or Night Watch without Hobos) got their greatest feat (large amount of data on Titans) from a miserable disaster of Wall Maria? Plus, according to this comic (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/6239/shingeki-no-kyojin_v1_ch1_by_gantz-waitingroom/26), the stationary guards were like Royal Police before the shenanigans.

[Dragonus45]

So i have been thinking about the low tech level, the rate that the titans have managed to drive mankind to extinction and the fact that everyone seems to be very closely related race wise with few outliers. Is it possible that this is a terraforming/colonization effort gone horrifically wrong. Not likely, but i could see the people in charge keeping it a secret to please the intelligent titan overlords that set them up with the wall.

[t209]

So i have been thinking about the low tech level, the rate that the titans have managed to drive mankind to extinction and the fact that everyone seems to be very closely related race wise with few outliers. Is it possible that this is a terraforming/colonization effort gone horrifically wrong. Not likely, but i could see the people in charge keeping it a secret to please the intelligent titan overlords that set them up with the wall.
So it was either
Selfish ideal or prevent demoralization of people in the wall. Plus we have a Jon Snow among the scout ranks. Either it's Earth, earth like dimension (ala Gears of War) or planet (ala Panzer Dragoon). We just have to see if they have ruins of statue of liberty.

[Dragonus45]

So it was either
Selfish ideal or prevent demoralization of people in the wall. Plus we have a Jon Snow among the scout ranks. Either it's Earth, earth like dimension (ala Gears of War) or planet (ala Panzer Dragoon). We just have to see if they have ruins of statue of liberty.
Im saying that they are cattle, and the the intelligent titans are harvesting them for some purpose. Also i thought it would be funny if they are really on titan. Because why not.

[t209]

Im saying that they are cattle, and the the intelligent titans are harvesting them for some purpose. Also i thought it would be funny if they are really on titan. Because why not.
Cookbook (To Serve Men) or The Matrix (Where Zion was annihilated except for 100 people. It's been done for centuries.)

[Rosstin]

My cousins and I rewatched all of Attack on Titan in a weekend and came up with some interesting theories and questions.

Based on all of the available evidence, it seems most likely that the Titans and the wall are some kind of bizarre human technology, and the world of AoT is post-apocolypse Earth.

Eren's father... working alone, he was able to reverse engineer the Titans from a smaller specimen he kept in his basement.

Question: What is inside the necks of wild titans? Perhaps the absorbed essence of the humans they were created from?

[t209]

Read the recent manga chapter (Spoiler Alert)
It's kinda glad that Reiner even refuse to slap his comrades with his hand and vice versa.
Either I should view Irvin's usage of Royal Police as cruel or a great thing (Their "best" skill should be put into good use).

[LaZodiac]

My cousins and I rewatched all of Attack on Titan in a weekend and came up with some interesting theories and questions.

Based on all of the available evidence, it seems most likely that the Titans and the wall are some kind of bizarre human technology, and the world of AoT is post-apocolypse Earth.

Eren's father... working alone, he was able to reverse engineer the Titans from a smaller specimen he kept in his basement.

Question: What is inside the necks of wild titans? Perhaps the absorbed essence of the humans they were created from?

I can't confirm or deny the bizarre human technology thing, but it being post apocalypse Earth is basically canon.

Eren's Dad is something special, that's for sure.

I'm guessing there are people inside the necks of wild titans. Same as the "regular" titans.

[John Cribati]

I can't confirm or deny the bizarre human technology thing, but it being post apocalypse Earth is basically canon.

Eren's Dad is something special, that's for sure.

I'm guessing there are people inside the necks of wild titans. Same as the "regular" titans.
I think it's more like the regular humans have become fully integrated and absorbed into the "wild" titans. Otherwise there would be human bodies left over after the titan body disintegrates.

[LaZodiac]

I think it's more like the regular humans have become fully integrated and absorbed into the "wild" titans. Otherwise there would be human bodies left over after the titan body disintegrates.

Well, the thing is, the area that "kills" a titan is where the pilot would be. I think that the attack that kills the titan, so destroys the pilot, that they cannot be seen afterwards.

Either that or, since they died inside the titan body, they count as "part of the titan body" so they get turned to steam as well.

[t209]

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=324
Guess who made a comic on Attack on Titan? Seriously, what would be in
Eren's basement in former Wall Maria. My Money on his former affiliation with wall cult (unlikely) or some form of secret on the titans.

[John Cribati]

Well, the thing is, the area that "kills" a titan is where the pilot would be. I think that the attack that kills the titan, so destroys the pilot, that they cannot be seen afterwards.

Either that or, since they died inside the titan body, they count as "part of the titan body" so they get turned to steam as well.

That could very well be; it just makes more sense in my head that the person inside eventually got turned into some kind of proto-brain.

[LaZodiac]

That could very well be; it just makes more sense in my head that the person inside eventually got turned into some kind of proto-brain.

Well, look at what Erin and Ymir look like when they are inside the Titan. They don't need to "become fused with the titan" since it's...fairly clear that they already are XP. So yha, you're totally right, wild titan's are probably people in titan's who have lost themselves to it.

[Wolf_Haley]

Well, look at what Erin and Ymir look like when they are inside the Titan. They don't need to "become fused with the titan" since it's...fairly clear that they already are XP. So yha, you're totally right, wild titan's are probably people in titan's who have lost themselves to it.
From what Ymir was saying it seems like she was a Titan first then somehow became a human in the latest chapter

Thinking about the next chapter
Anyone think Mikasa is going to kill Christa? I get the feeling she's about ready to do something thats gonna cost her bad when it comes to her relationship with everyone to try and get Eren

[LaZodiac]

From what Ymir was saying it seems like she was a Titan first then somehow became a human in the latest chapter

Thinking about the next chapter
Anyone think Mikasa is going to kill Christa? I get the feeling she's about ready to do something thats gonna cost her bad when it comes to her relationship with everyone to try and get Eren

My guess is that Ymir just doesn't remember being a human previously, be it due to being too young or the process messing with her brain.

Concerning the chapter: Mikasa is probably going to try to kill every single person between her and Eren, until Eren tells her it's okay. Then she'll turn her blade on everyone else, with just as good results.

[Kato]

Ah, guess who finally caught up with the manga? :smalltongue:


Geez, this show has a higher body count than ASOIAF.

Wow, there's some weird **** going on.... I think most shocking was when Reiner quite nonchalantly told Eren who they are. I guess he kind of had his reasons as it was a good chance to escape but... what the hell?


I guess we still know kind of little about the Titans to say anything for sure which hasn't been revealed yet. Well, we can be pretty sure humans can turn into Titans for... reasons. Maybe its coincidence, maybe its heritage, maybe its crazy people going around injecting their children with funny stuff.
Ah, maybe it's just the... monkey titan... I'd prefer sasquatch, to be honest, going around and transforming people. I guess this would make sense if he did something like that in Connie's village. And he can command them. Maybe he's like... Titan God?! Whatever....

Er, yeah, I'm curious if we will find out where they were heading... quite confident they won't make it, though. I hope they don't die/get away and Hanji or whoever can torture the information out of them...

We'll see. I'm definitely curious.

[t209]

Ah, guess who finally caught up with the manga? :smalltongue:


Geez, this show has a higher body count than ASOIAF.

Wow, there's some weird **** going on.... I think most shocking was when Reiner quite nonchalantly told Eren who they are. I guess he kind of had his reasons as it was a good chance to escape but... what the hell?


I guess we still know kind of little about the Titans to say anything for sure which hasn't been revealed yet. Well, we can be pretty sure humans can turn into Titans for... reasons. Maybe its coincidence, maybe its heritage, maybe its crazy people going around injecting their children with funny stuff.
Ah, maybe it's just the... monkey titan... I'd prefer sasquatch, to be honest, going around and transforming people. I guess this would make sense if he did something like that in Connie's village. And he can command them. Maybe he's like... Titan God?! Whatever....

Er, yeah, I'm curious if we will find out where they were heading... quite confident they won't make it, though. I hope they don't die/get away and Hanji or whoever can torture the information out of them...

We'll see. I'm definitely curious.

At least
They managed to clean up corruption by letting the Police get eaten. Hope Marlo isn't dead yet :smallamused:. I wonder if Beast Titan is also a Spore carrier since one village wasn't destroyed but no occupants and horses are still in the stable.

[Emperor Ing]

So as someone who's looking at this from a distance, is this show worth watching, or would it be best to wait for the English dub?

[Cobalt]

I think that if it looks like something you'd want to watch, then you should go for it now. Aside from the annoyingly inconsistent translations and the respelling of character names every so often, the Japanese with subtitles is doing an outstanding job at keeping this enjoyable. The subtitles have not one time gotten in the way of me following the action, and for a lot of people the action is the big selling point. Definitely a get-hyped show, and I feel like part of the enjoyment may come from watching it while it's still being made. Also, you'll be able to wildly guess at what's happening with the rest of us, so +1.

[Esprit15]

So as someone who's looking at this from a distance, is this show worth watching, or would it be best to wait for the English dub?

In addition to what Cobalt said, I tend to hate how dubs sound if I have heard the original.

[John Cribati]

In addition to what Cobalt said, I tend to hate how dubs sound if I have heard the original.

I know that feel, bro. The only dub I liked just as much as the sub was Gurren Lagann.

[Cobalt]

So, the recent episode was one of the best episodes, and I am beyond excited for this final stretch of the season. It's really building up to a head, and seeing it coming, I think they'll stop the season at the perfect spot. The suspense between now and then is killing me. I can't even imagine what it'll feel like to not have new AoT episodes coming for a while. Probably torture.

There's a live action film coming next year or something, right? I read that they were looking for extras to run from Titans. Hopefully the movie won't look ridiculous; some of the Titans look a little dumb even in the anime. Still, I'm excited. It's supposed to show before humanity was pushed to the walls. Crazy~

EDIT: Oh yeah. I watched that special episode that has Eren, Mikasa, and Armin in chibi at the training camp. It was hilariously jarring to have such ridiculousness set to the same soundtrack as the dramatic moments of the main show. I love the gimmick of the Colossal Titan every scene. Although, going from those jokes to episode 21 was, ha, different.

[t209]

So have you guys heard about Pixis controversy? In my opinion, he's awesome commander, second to General Sturnn from Winter Assault and General Tulius from Skyrim.

[Flickerdart]

So have you guys heard about Pixis controversy? In my opinion, he's awesome commander, second to General Sturnn from Winter Assault and General Tulius from Skyrim.
How is General Tulius a good commander? The only thing he ever does is let Ulfric escape by not executing the most dangerous guy in the entire rebellion first, instead choosing to go for a random flunky and then the innocent bystander.

[t209]

How is General Tulius a good commander? The only thing he ever does is let Ulfric escape by not executing the most dangerous guy in the entire rebellion first, instead choosing to go for a random flunky and then the innocent bystander.
Let's not go into Skyrim,
Plus if he's executed wouldn't it be more boring if he was executed first, albeit left with terrible questline until Dragonborn Emperor came out.

[LaZodiac]

So have you guys heard about Pixis controversy? In my opinion, he's awesome commander, second to General Sturnn from Winter Assault and General Tulius from Skyrim.

...what do you mean exactly by Pixis controversy? Is it something to due with the fact that he lost men to horrific, building tall monstrosities?

ALSO! Everyone best keep in mind, Attack on Titan: Before the Fall is a side story manga coming out soon. The idea from the teaser is that it takes place 70 years before the series starts. And it also reveals that, 70 years ago, the cool 3D Manouver Devices? Yha, we didn't have those.

So it's gonna be REALLY interesting.

[Tectonic Robot]

About the earlier discussion on Japanese suprecism:

Before you go and accuse them of that, bear in mind that Asians are widely considered to be extinct in Attack on Titan, wiped out by the titans. So they can't be that special, eh?


Regarding soldier skill level: I believe this show is refreshingly realistic with the difficulties of fighting giant sized, fast, extremely strong men would be for an average sized person. The casualty rates are excessively high because it's dangerous and it should be that high.

[LaZodiac]

Regarding soldier skill level: I believe this show is refreshingly realistic with the difficulties of fighting giant sized, fast, extremely strong men would be for an average sized person. The casualty rates are excessively high because it's dangerous and it should be that high.

Don't forget that all the really skilled ones (and thus the ones that get to choose where they work) choose the safer, inner wall areas. The scouting legion is full of people who weren't good enough to choose to be useless. Which is the entire point. And I love it.

[Tectonic Robot]

Don't forget that all the really skilled ones (and thus the ones that get to choose where they work) choose the safer, inner wall areas. The scouting legion is full of people who weren't good enough to choose to be useless. Which is the entire point. And I love it.

Hah! The ones that are 'skilled' are the ones who showed the most promise as recruits... but they have zero experience with actually, y'know, fighting titans. The recon corps, the ones who actually go out and fight? They're the real elites of the show. Ya feel me, hombre?

[LaZodiac]

Hah! The ones that are 'skilled' are the ones who showed the most promise as recruits... but they have zero experience with actually, y'know, fighting titans. The recon corps, the ones who actually go out and fight? They're the real elites of the show. Ya feel me, hombre?

Well yes that's the idea. But if the ones who were skilled enough to choose where to go, choose to go to the recon corps, the Titans would be slightly less of a problem since they'd have much more people who would be successful a the whole titan fighting thing.

Sure, after all is said and done this'll just even out to just a handful more people saved, but it's the thought that counts.

[t209]

...what do you mean exactly by Pixis controversy? Is it something to due with the fact that he lost men to horrific, building tall monstrosities?

ALSO! Everyone best keep in mind, Attack on Titan: Before the Fall is a side story manga coming out soon. The idea from the teaser is that it takes place 70 years before the series starts. And it also reveals that, 70 years ago, the cool 3D Manouver Devices? Yha, we didn't have those.

So it's gonna be REALLY interesting.
I mean the one about Artist inspiration for Pixis.

[thubby]

...what do you mean exactly by Pixis controversy? Is it something to due with the fact that he lost men to horrific, building tall monstrosities?

ALSO! Everyone best keep in mind, Attack on Titan: Before the Fall is a side story manga coming out soon. The idea from the teaser is that it takes place 70 years before the series starts. And it also reveals that, 70 years ago, the cool 3D Manouver Devices? Yha, we didn't have those.

So it's gonna be REALLY interesting.

he is inspired by an officer in the japanese army that was at some level involved in a massacre.

[LaZodiac]

he is inspired by an officer in the japanese army that was at some level involved in a massacre.

Aaaah, okay. I don't think people should really care, but okay.

[Tectonic Robot]

Woo, I just powered through the manga on this website. Is the part where Eren and Ymir are sitting on a tree and chatting with Reiner and Bertholt caught up with the story?

[LaZodiac]

Woo, I just powered through the manga on this website. Is the part where Eren and Ymir are sitting on a tree and chatting with Reiner and Bertholt caught up with the story?

Nope you're still twoish chapters behind.

[Tectonic Robot]

Aha, thank you, La Zodiac! Now, I'm completely caught up, and can offer my opinions on the manga thus far!

Detailed as follows:

I wish there were more of this to read at the moment. Maybe because thing cut off during this ultra-tense chase scene. But yeah, it's pretty good.

To tell you the truth, the smaller titans freak me out more than the big titans, if only because when I'm trying to go to bed late at night, I can look up at the door and imagine one of the tinier titans walking in. It's very unnerving. Especially considering the fact that my entire family probably couldn't take a single titan.

I've gotten pretty good at telling when people are going to die, although I was fairly sure Ymir was gunna bite it at the battle of Castle Utgard. If I hadn't spoiled myself to twists beforehand, Reiner and Bertholt being titan shifters would have punched me out of left field.

Problems with the show? Nothing comes to mind at the moment. I generally have trouble finding problems with works of media, anyway.

[Kato]

Manga spoiler


Somewhere I got spoiled about Berthold's other identity but as I said, when Reiner just told Eren all of a sudden it was quite a WTF moment...


There's actually a bunch of stuff that still bugs me... nothing major but still. Like Mikasa's crazy obsession to the point where hardly anything else matters to her, (still) Eren forgetting about the key for like five years or something, I'm still of the opinion the average soldier should have less trouble fighting single titans and the motto of the army shouldn't be "most of you will die, but some of you will be lucky"... Oh, and I guess a bunch of stuff that will hopefully get wrapped up over time. (Like whether the three Titans were little kids when they attacked and what's their agenda and what's the church's agenda...)

Also, a friend of mine and I tried to put together some numbers on the size of the walls and stuff recently and... I don't know, it all seems somewhat weird when it comes to scale to me but nothing is exactly wrong about it.

[Forrestfire]

Manga spoiler


Somewhere I got spoiled about Berthold's other identity but as I said, when Reiner just told Eren all of a sudden it was quite a WTF moment...



I did a double take and had to go back a few pages to see if I missed anything. It was so hilariously out of the blue XD

[Astrella]

Manga:
Yeah, them just telling completely struck me out of the left field. I really thought they were joking or that it was a dream or something.

[LaZodiac]

Manga spoiler

There's actually a bunch of stuff that still bugs me... nothing major but still. Like Mikasa's crazy obsession to the point where hardly anything else matters to her, (still) Eren forgetting about the key for like five years or something, I'm still of the opinion the average soldier should have less trouble fighting single titans and the motto of the army shouldn't be "most of you will die, but some of you will be lucky"... Oh, and I guess a bunch of stuff that will hopefully get wrapped up over time. (Like whether the three Titans were little kids when they attacked and what's their agenda and what's the church's agenda...)


Mikasa's obsession IS fairly weird, but it's also understandable. She basically has nothing in the world by Eren, so literally NOTHING else matters.

Eren will bring up the key when they get to the house. No use talking about the key until they know what it unlocks.

We'll definitely find out more about the Titans and the church as we go, they're kind of the main plot :smalltongue:


Manga:
Yeah, them just telling completely struck me out of the left field. I really thought they were joking or that it was a dream or something.

Oh, same here. It was like "...dude, that's kind of a rude joke, don't say things like that". And then he started transforming and I was like "...wait no you're serious? What the...what the hell!"

[Raimun]

I've watched a few episodes now and this looks interesting.

Sure, some things make no sense if you think about it (no better cannons yadda, yadda) but I think that's the point. From what I've seen, I don't think the whole society makes much sense. They're inefficient, make poor decisions and stick to one path, even if there are better ones. They'd rather stick to a status quo than think of anything that might rock the boat. That's kind of an universal theme, I think.

Anyway, the titans are really unsettling. I haven't been as... unsettled(?) by movie/tv-monsters for ages. I guess it's the uncanny valley-thing.

Edit: Plus the opening is pure metal! \,,/

[Tectonic Robot]

Manga spoiler


Somewhere I got spoiled about Berthold's other identity but as I said, when Reiner just told Eren all of a sudden it was quite a WTF moment...


There's actually a bunch of stuff that still bugs me... nothing major but still. Like Mikasa's crazy obsession to the point where hardly anything else matters to her, (still) Eren forgetting about the key for like five years or something, I'm still of the opinion the average soldier should have less trouble fighting single titans and the motto of the army shouldn't be "most of you will die, but some of you will be lucky"... Oh, and I guess a bunch of stuff that will hopefully get wrapped up over time. (Like whether the three Titans were little kids when they attacked and what's their agenda and what's the church's agenda...)

Also, a friend of mine and I tried to put together some numbers on the size of the walls and stuff recently and... I don't know, it all seems somewhat weird when it comes to scale to me but nothing is exactly wrong about it.


Spoilered response!

The sudden revelation actually made me laugh a bit. I liked that bit.

The show does show that having a military based entirely around soldiers being paragons of virtue and willing to die for their people is not a very smart plan. The main military does seem to lack much planning besides "die bravely while we retreat", y'know?

The survey corps are much more competent when it comes to fighting titans, probably due to their better tactics.

[Kato]

Okay, I won't quote all of you but it seems that reveal really catches everyone by surprise, ao I'm not on my own. I wonder if they wanted to make people laugh intentionally there :smallbiggrin:



Mikasa's obsession IS fairly weird, but it's also understandable. She basically has nothing in the world by Eren, so literally NOTHING else matters.

Eren will bring up the key when they get to the house. No use talking about the key until they know what it unlocks.


I get why she is like this but... really, this is, like, Yuno Gasai level of obsession. It just seems unnatural and quite honestly I can see why some people would get offended about a woman dedicating her whole life for a man. I'm not sure how I would feel if the genders were reversed but if Mikasa wasn't as badass as she is it would be even worse.

It's more like... "Hey, son, this key holds the truth about the Titans! Go look into the cellar!" - years later - "Oh, right, there was this key..." I'm not sure whether he really had amnesia concerning that talk (he couldn't have forgotten the key, he always had it with him) but I get the bit about the place being kind of hard to reach but... couldn't he have told someone? "Hey, this key may save humanity! Meh, I'm not telling anyone until I can go there myself!"
Also, speaking of Eren, while I don't think the show is that great overall I like how "Abridge on Titan" portrays him as a genocidal maniac.



Spoilered response!

The show does show that having a military based entirely around soldiers being paragons of virtue and willing to die for their people is not a very smart plan. The main military does seem to lack much planning besides "die bravely while we retreat", y'know?

The survey corps are much more competent when it comes to fighting titans, probably due to their better tactics.

I wouldn't even say "paragons of virtue and willing to die", it comes of more as "well, you probably won't get to kill a single titan so nine out of ten are just a distraction so someone else can do something useful. Do your best!" They don't even give the impression they'd have a fighting chance at times and with such a poor morale...

[LaZodiac]

Okay, I won't quote all of you but it seems that reveal really catches everyone by surprise, ao I'm not on my own. I wonder if they wanted to make people laugh intentionally there :smallbiggrin:




I get why she is like this but... really, this is, like, Yuno Gasai level of obsession. It just seems unnatural and quite honestly I can see why some people would get offended about a woman dedicating her whole life for a man. I'm not sure how I would feel if the genders were reversed but if Mikasa wasn't as badass as she is it would be even worse.

It's more like... "Hey, son, this key holds the truth about the Titans! Go look into the cellar!" - years later - "Oh, right, there was this key..." I'm not sure whether he really had amnesia concerning that talk (he couldn't have forgotten the key, he always had it with him) but I get the bit about the place being kind of hard to reach but... couldn't he have told someone? "Hey, this key may save humanity! Meh, I'm not telling anyone until I can go there myself!"
Also, speaking of Eren, while I don't think the show is that great overall I like how "Abridge on Titan" portrays him as a genocidal maniac.


I see what you mean regarding Mikasa. The fact that people wouldn't think of that at all if the situation was reversed is a bad sign :smallsigh:

Well, lets be honest here. Eren IS genocidal, and is very likely COMPLETELY insane. Him not mentioning the key makes sense for him.

[John Cribati]

I see what you mean regarding Mikasa. The fact that people wouldn't think of that at all if the situation was reversed is a bad sign :smallsigh:

Well, lets be honest here. Eren IS genocidal, and is very likely COMPLETELY insane. Him not mentioning the key makes sense for him.

I get why Mikasa has this fixation on Eren: Not only is he all she has left, but she's projecting her family's loss onto him. He represents the only thing that matters to her. At the same time, that doesn't remove the inherent sexism of the situation.

Though it's kind of weird when you think about it... I always like to imagine gender-reversed media, where everyone makes exactly the same decisions, they're just guys instead of girls and girls instead of guys. In this situation M!Mikasa would be a standard guy, but F!Eren would be a ragin storm of problems. Given all that stuff from earlier about Eren being a main character without his own agency, F!Eren would basically be calling down a tornado of burning bras. Not to mention M!Mikasa constantly having to save her from her single-minded dedication would be.

Props for the doctor/scientist mother, though.

[LaZodiac]

I get why Mikasa has this fixation on Eren: Not only is he all she has left, but she's projecting her family's loss onto him. He represents the only thing that matters to her. At the same time, that doesn't remove the inherent sexism of the situation.

Though it's kind of weird when you think about it... I always like to imagine gender-reversed media, where everyone makes exactly the same decisions, they're just guys instead of girls and girls instead of guys. In this situation M!Mikasa would be a standard guy, but F!Eren would be a ragin storm of problems. Given all that stuff from earlier about Eren being a main character without his own agency, F!Eren would basically be calling down a tornado of burning bras. Not to mention M!Mikasa constantly having to save her from her single-minded dedication would be.

Props for the doctor/scientist mother, though.

Yeah, see, stuff like that is why I don't think Mikasa's attitude is even remotely sexist. If anything she's being more of a man then Eren is in the view of "sexism". That one instance aside the series is actually rather good with how it handles gender. Ymir's a chick you know, and the other titan lady who's name I forgot, she's bloody powerful! They're not just weaklings who get beaten easily.