Supermount Druid (and choosing the right mount)

[sleepyphoenixx]

So i've been tinkering with a mounted Druid build that focuses on boosting the mount as much as possible. Because i'm using Ranger Knight the mount is a Special Mount, as the Paladin class feature. I'm currently debating dropping Natural Bond to take Dragon Steed instead and ride a dragon unless there's a good flying mount somewhere that doesn't cost a feat.

My build looks like this:
NG Celestial Human
with 2 flaws
STR 10 DEX 15 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 16 CHA 8

1 Druid 1 (Swift Hunter Variant, UA)
2 Wizard 1
3 Druid 2
4 Druid 3
5 Druid 4
6 Druid 5
7 Druid 6
8 Prestige Ranger 1
9 Ranger Knight 1 (Dragon 317)
10 Arcane Hierophant 1
11 Arcane Hierophant 2
12 Arcane Hierophant 3
13 Arcane Hierophant 4
14 Arcane Hierophant 5
15 Arcane Hierophant 6
16 Arcane Hierophant 7
17 Arcane Hierophant 8
18 Arcane Hierophant 9
19 Arcane Hierophant 10
20 Druid 7

Feats:
1: Endurance, TWF, Mounted Combat, Trample
3: Alternative Source Spell (Dragon 325)
6: Theurgic Bond (Familiar -> Animal Comp)(Dragon 325)
9: Devoted Tracker
12: Holy Mount (Divine -> Special Mount) (Dragon 325)
15: Theurgic Mount (Familiar -> Special Mount) (Dragon 325)
18: Natural Bond

Casts as a level 17 Druid and a level 11 Wizard, access to Ranger spells.

Mount Stats
-------------
AC: 7(Druid) + 10 (AH) + 11 (Familiar) +3 (NB) = 30 // +20HD, +20 NA, +10 STR/DEX
SM: 6(RK) + 18 (Divine) + 11 (Familiar) = 35 // +14HD, +16 NA STR +7, INT 12, SR 40
Fam: 11 // +6 NA
--------------------------------
+36 HD, +42 NA, +17 STR, +10 DEX, INT 12
What i'm looking for are suggestions on good flying mounts. A cost of 1 feat is fine if necessary since i can swap out Natural Bond if i have to.
Build suggestions and critique are of course welcome.

[Coidzor]

Drakkensteed is a Paladin ACF from Dragon Magic that replaces the normal mount with a draconic, winged horse, you might see if that's OK'd for Ranger Knight.

Otherwise it only reduces your effective paladin level a little bit to take an alternative mount ala the DMG if you don't want to spend a feat on it.

[Darrin]

Dire Eagle (Races of Stone) is probably your best large-sized animal flier, and is available as an animal companion to 4th level druids. It's got 5 HD, flyby attack, and the best damage output of all the fliers available around that level (dire bat, desmodu hunting/guard bats, drakkensteed). The desmodu bats have better maneuverability, better AC, and blindsense 120', but only one bite attack, while the dire eagle has two talons and a bite.

The only other flying animal I can find with more HD is the Desmodu War Bat (10 HD), but then your fly speed drops to 40' (good). Much sturdier, and bite damage is a respectable 2d6+10, but it still only gets a single bite attack. 3.5 Update gives it Alertness, Dodge, and Flyby Attack.

[Coidzor]

Dire Eagle (Races of Stone) is probably your best large-sized animal flier, and is available as an animal companion to 4th level druids. It's got 5 HD, flyby attack, and the best damage output of all the fliers available around that level (dire bat, desmodu hunting/guard bats, drakkensteed). The desmodu bats have better maneuverability, better AC, and blindsight 120', but only one bite attack, while the dire eagle has two talons and a bite.

Those are pretty nifty, aye. I don't think they're on the table with the Paladin Special Mount progression though.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Well, i know you can get a True Dragon or Wyvern from the Dragon Steed feat in Draconomicon.
If i'm gonna spend a feat i'd rather have that than some weird lizard-horse. :smalltongue: (no offense Coidzor)

I'm not all that familiar with Paladins and the handbooks i've looked at don't go into the topic much. Is there a list somewhere of alternate Paladin mounts or is it basically "choose some critter and ask your dm"?

Worst case i can probably fall back on the Animal Companion list but i had hoped that Special Mount granted access to something a little more impressive.

Current options on the table:
A True Dragon. As far as i know there are no NG true dragons and it isn't really what i'm looking for fluffwise.Costs a feat.

A Wyvern. Sadly, Wyverns have slow and clumsy flying and aren't worth the level adjustment and also take a feat.

A normal Warhorse. Doesn't cost a feat but is also kind of boring and needs magic or an item to fly.

Some kind of animal from the AC list.

[Gwendol]

The DMG lists alternative paladin mounts, including griffons and hippogriffs.

[Coidzor]

Well, i know you can get a True Dragon or Wyvern from the Dragon Steed feat in Draconomicon.
If i'm gonna spend a feat i'd rather have that than some weird lizard-horse. :smalltongue: (no offense Coidzor)

With Drakkensteed you wouldn't be spending a feat, since it's just an ACF that you'd have to ask your DM about.


I'm not all that familiar with Paladins and the handbooks i've looked at don't go into the topic much. Is there a list somewhere of alternate Paladin mounts or is it basically "choose some critter and ask your dm"?

It's rather piecemeal, some new books mention that X creature is an alternate mount, rarely. The DMG has a section where it lists a couple example alternative mounts for higher level paladins and some guidelines for selecting a different creature as an alternative mount, IIRC.


Worst case i can probably fall back on the Animal Companion list but i had hoped that Special Mount granted access to something a little more impressive.

Special mount is more about the extra bonus HD and some of the special abilities/intelligence of the creature than that the base forms are better. Aside from taking the dragon steed feat anyway. Because that's awesome because lots of Dragon HD are awesome. Even better if the bonus HD can act as virtual age categories to unlock things or at least some casting scaling on the dragon.

[HalfQuart]

So you used the word "supermount" but didn't actually reference THE Supermount! (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866958/Supermount!); not sure if that was intentional... Supermount! uses a halfling with Halfling Outrider (CW) which (depending on how you read it) stacks with BOTH druid and ranger levels for determining the abilities of your special mount and animal companion, and then the Devoted Tracker (CAdv) feat lets you use your special mount as an animal companion... then you tack on something like Dragon Steed (Drac) and at level 12 you get an extra-powerful Wyrmling Gold Dragon as a special mount/animal companion...

That doesn't really sounds like what you're trying to do here, though, eh?

[Coidzor]

The OP does patch the gap with the holy mount and theurgic mount feats.

Though they could probably get away without the theurgic mount feat, since it's just 3 levels of wizard... unless the arcane hierophant levels would count twice, once for druid progression, once for wizard progression.

[sleepyphoenixx]

unless the arcane hierophant levels would count twice, once for druid progression, once for wizard progression.

Yes, that was what i assumed when i selected the feat and it's pretty much the sole reason for taking Arcane Hierophant.

As for the "not being a supermount", using Halfling Outrider would have gimped my casting.
This build "only" gets 36 bonus HD on it's mount while some "proper" supermount builds go into the 70s or even 90s but it also gains 9th level spells.
It also doesn't require nebulous rules interpretations (as long as i didn't overlook something).
I choose to interpret the term supermount as "your mount has considerably more HD than it's rider". and i think this qualifies.

[HalfQuart]

I choose to interpret the term supermount as "your mount has considerably more HD than it's rider". and i think this qualifies.
That's fine; I wasn't trying to say that you were doing it wrong, just pointing to a different build as an option.