Worst Idea of all time (3.5)

[Fouredged Sword]

Ok, horrid idea time, paired with a challenge for those of the playground who think themselves kings of optimization, I present the ultimate challenge.

Build me a Vow of Poverty build...

Using Artificer 20!

Points for originality and actually making this functional!

:smalleek::smallbiggrin::smallamused:

[erikun]

My first instinct is to take the Leadership feat and then give all your magical equipment to your cohort, and simply run the cohort as a character. Cleric 20 with dedicated crafter support? Sure!

[Kelb_Panthera]

This simply can't be done. The only artificer class features that could be used are trapfinding, infusion, the free homonculous, and (I think it was called) harvest essence.

You can't craft a damn thing, since that would require having a crap-ton of magical supplies and a workshop.

Trapfinding is barely going to work since all you have is ranks and intelligence.

The homoncolous -might- have some value as a combatant and infusion target but you can't replace him if he's destroyed since you can't craft.

Which leaves the infusions. Slow casting times and the necessity of targetting an object have always made them a secondary feature. Pushing them into a primary role isn't going to end well.

[Shining Wrath]

Other than minions / cohort, you need someone who will give you access to tools and equipment, without you actually owning them.

Take the "Favored in House" feat as a member of House Cannith.
Favors can also be used to acquire the loan of equipment or documents from influential acquaintances. Were I DM, I would think that lending basic crafting equipment would require a DC 5 or DC 10 roll for a Cannith member, as the House is likely to have those sorts of things in abundance - it's like asking a bard for a guitar pick.

[Deophaun]

Other than minions / cohort, you need someone who will give you access to tools and equipment, without you actually owning them.
Ahem, Vow of Poverty says "own or use." By RAW, VoPers have difficulty opening doors without losing all their powers. Operating a lab/forge/whatever is right out.

[IdleMuse]

I'm sure this isn't terrible with a Warforged, since you can infuse yourself.

[Slipperychicken]

I'm sure this isn't terrible with a Warforged, since you can infuse yourself.

Would warforged components count as equipment, or part of yourself?

[nedz]

Take the feat — break the vow.

Now choose the Artificer build of your choice, allowing for one dead feat.

[IdleMuse]

Would warforged components count as equipment, or part of yourself?

I'd consider them equipment, pretty much like Grafts. Warforged Body feats though, I'd allow.

[Sith_Happens]

Take the feat — break the vow.

Now choose the Artificer build of your choice, allowing for one dead feat.

The Sacred Vow feat is barely alive in the first place, so more like two dead feats. That aside:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZsKB3vt3EvQ/TxMBADk3NgI/AAAAAAAABIQ/-r6WlUvNmFw/s1600/winner1.jpg

[Raendyn]

Why would kings of optimization respond to this?

As your member title mentions* U r trolling here, with an idea that doesnt fit nor work. Moreover, optimization would be anything that doesnt derive from Class lvls and items. thats only feats. Take leadership take psicrystal have it take leadership and psicrystal repeat, repeat, ... , repeat. now there is noone left to fight because everyone is in your leadership combo and those of higher lvls commited suicide out of boredom, including pun-pun.


The Sacred Vow feat is barely alive in the first place, so more like two dead feats. That aside:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZsKB3vt3EvQ/TxMBADk3NgI/AAAAAAAABIQ/-r6WlUvNmFw/s1600/winner1.jpg

I rofled Hard. SO SO SO Badly Hard.

[Fouredged Sword]

We have two people who have solved the problem.

erikun - The Companion Hero - Make equipment for a cohort
nedz - The Cop Out - Break the Vow

Both complete the challenge. Now who else can come up with an interesting way to make this work.

[Gildedragon]

Use the XP instead of GP rules set out under voluntary poverty. Ideally this means that whenever the artificer retains essence they gain some additional portion of the GP cost as XP. Even if not the case, they retain essence of all items found as this does not violate the vow. They do not own or use any magic items by doing so.

When crafting items apply Extraordinary artisan to lower the GP cost, translate to XP Cost and lower the total XP cost with Legendary Artisan.
The "item" then produced has no GP cost; and might qualify for use by a VoPer; they'd not be items, as they have no physical parts, but they might be enchantments woven into whatever 0 GP bricsbrac or body around.

Even if it does violate VoP to use said self-made enchantments, you produce the item at a cost considerably reduced from the original. Crafting items for others doesn't violate the vow, making wondrous architecture for cheap can help communities.

The construction of the homunculus is a bit problematic. On one hand animating a mass of mundane (0 GP cost) mud giving it life and sentience doesn't feel against the vow; it is its own creature, same as a familiar or cohort; but making it work for you feels like benefiting from the labor of others, which feels counter vow-y.

Replacing some feats for craft tattoo, graft, and contingent spell might be good ideas.

[Slide]

We have two people who have solved the problem.

erikun - The Companion Hero - Make equipment for a cohort
nedz - The Cop Out - Break the Vow

Both complete the challenge. Now who else can come up with an interesting way to make this work.

As IdleMuse said, be a Warforged. Now you can infuse yourself.

[Fouredged Sword]

Guigarci comes out with another possibly winner.

Guigarci - Poor Man Minion Master - Make a high HD homunculus and or Effigies and deck THEM out in gear. They are not equipment, so you can make them just fine.

Good good, we now have three ways to make this function.

[Gildedragon]

So how VoP makes item crafting cheap as blazes.

Some math:
G = magic item's base market price in GP
G/2 gp (normal crafting cost) * 3/4 (extraordinary artisan) * 1 xp/5 gp (voluntary poverty xp:gp conversion ratio) --> 3G/40 xp
(3G/40 + G/25 (base xp cost) ) * 3/4 (legendary artisan) leaves the total crafting cost at 138G/1600 or:
345 xp per 4000 gp of market price

considering that you could get somewhere between 4 and 14 XP per 100 GP (or 560xp per 4000 gp; more than your crafting cost) from a magic item's base cost (the latter allowing for the reading of retain essence "the artificer adds the XP it took to create the item to his craft reserve" to work with the 5GP = 1XP voluntary poverty conversion rate), the artificer is making things for quite cheap. And if the Artificer takes further cost reducers, things get wild.
A VoP artificer might be the way to go actually, for cheap pervasive magic items, as the conversion is a ramification of voluntary poverty; that is; of VoP.