Hathran and Item Creation Feats

[Daftendirekt]

So, Hathran have the "Taboo" class feature that bars them from taking any item creation feats apart from Scribe Scroll. Would it be possible to grab some creation feats before entering the PrC and still be able to use them?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Not by RAW, no. It's explicitly stated that you can take the class with other Item Creation feats but can't use them without falling.
You might be able to convince your dm to allow Inscribe Rune or Craft Contingent Spell without outright ignoring the fluff but that's about the limit.

Since you get Leadership anyway just put them on your cohort.

[eggynack]

No. One of the prerequisites is, "She may not possess any item creation feats other than Scribe Scroll." Thus, you can neither have item creation feats before entering hathran, nor can you take them while in the class.

[sleepyphoenixx]

You can take Item Creation feats while being a Hathran, but you'll fall.
You can atone if you swear to never use them again.
It's in PGtF under "Ex-Hathrans".

Edit: You get to keep Circle Magic though even if you fall. If you're only in the class for that you can take your Hathran levels and take your Creation feats after that. It's kind of a waste though since some of those abilities are really good.
(and you get your personal crafting b**** as part of the class requirements :smalltongue:)

[eggynack]

You can take Item Creation feats while being a Hathran, but you'll fall.
You can atone if you swear to never use them again.
It's in PGtF under "Ex-Hathrans"
I suppose so. That doesn't seem that helpful, unless you can get all the value out of the feat that you want between falling and atoning. You absolutely can't enter the class after taking item creation feats though. Those are some strict RAW words right there. Also, I don't really get the item creation thing, as applies to ex-hathran. You explicitly just can't take item creation feats, though I guess you could go ex-hathran, take a feat, use the feat, and atone. It's all rather circuitous.

[Nymrod]

Not by RAW, no. It's explicitly stated that you can take the class with other Item Creation feats but can't use them without falling.
You might be able to convince your dm to allow Inscribe Rune or Craft Contingent Spell without outright ignoring the fluff but that's about the limit.

Since you get Leadership anyway just put them on your cohort.

An experience FR DM would not allow that though. Your cohort is either a Rashemi beserker or an Ethran. An Ethran is a hathran in training and is constrained by the same taboos that a Hathran is. Sure it is not spelled in the rules, but an Ethran who learned an item creation feat could never become a Hathran herself and would be flaunting ancient tradition.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The wording might be a little unfortunate :smalltongue:
The intent is clear though. No item creation for Hathrans. It's why i would allow Inscribe Rune and Craft Contingent Spell.
Runes are similar enough to scrolls imo and CCS doesn't really create items despite being classified as an item creation feat. There's a few more like that iirc but most of them are kind of useless.

[Raendyn]

An experience FR DM would not allow that though. Your cohort is either a Rashemi beserker or an Ethran. An Ethran is a hathran in training and is constrained by the same taboos that a Hathran is. Sure it is not spelled in the rules, but an Ethran who learned an item creation feat could never become a Hathran herself and would be flaunting ancient tradition.

Couldn't agree more. Seconded!

[sleepyphoenixx]

An experience FR DM would not allow that though. Your cohort is either a Rashemi beserker or an Ethran. An Ethran is a hathran in training and is constrained by the same taboos that a Hathran is. Sure it is not spelled in the rules, but an Ethran who learned an item creation feat could never become a Hathran herself and would be flaunting ancient tradition.

As i read it the restriction applies to the Leadership bonus, not the feat itself.
So "if your cohort is not an Ethran or Rashemi Barbarian you don't get the +2",
not "your cohort must be this".
Not that the restriction would be unreasonable. It's not like Hathran is a weak class :smallbiggrin:

[Boci]

An experience FR DM would not allow that though. Your cohort is either a Rashemi beserker or an Ethran. An Ethran is a hathran in training and is constrained by the same taboos that a Hathran is. Sure it is not spelled in the rules, but an Ethran who learned an item creation feat could never become a Hathran herself and would be flaunting ancient tradition.

But flaunting ancient traditions can make for good role play. There are plenty of famous historical figures who had done similar things.

That and I have a problem with the logic of this. How can I be disbarred from a PrC by knowing how to make magical items when its fluffed as an order? What if I learnt in secret and never told my elders?

[sleepyphoenixx]

But flaunting ancient traditions can make for good role play. There are plenty of famous historical figures who had done similar things.

That and I have a problem with the logic of this. How can I be disbarred from a PrC by knowing how to make magical items when its fluffed as an order? What if I learnt in secret and never told my elders?

THE SPIRITS ALWAYS KNOW
Seriously, it doesn't matter how they know. The rules say they do so they do.
You already get a ton of useful and powerful abilities in addition to the fact that Hathran is the only class that can use Circle Magic on divine spells.
Leave all that crafting stuff to your flunkies... eerr valued allies.

[Boci]

Seriously, it doesn't matter how they know. The rules say they do so they do.

That is an argument you generally want to avoid using at the table in 3.5.

[sleepyphoenixx]

That is an argument you generally want to avoid using at the table in 3.5.

Generally, yes. In this specific case the rules are quite clear though.

[Boci]

Generally, yes. In this specific case the rules are quite clear though.

Yes, but they make little sense. And quite a few people think "Sorry, dem the rules" is a poor rebruke for a character concept that a player would have fun with and would grant the DM loads of plot hooks.

[Daftendirekt]

No. One of the prerequisites is, "She may not possess any item creation feats other than Scribe Scroll." Thus, you can neither have item creation feats before entering hathran, nor can you take them while in the class.

Herp derp, failed to see that line. Yeah.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Yes, but they make little sense. And quite a few people think "Sorry, dem the rules" is a poor rebruke for a character concept that a player would have fun with and would grant the DM loads of plot hooks.

True, but that's something you'll have to take up with your DM. I doubt anybody here could tell you why exactly whoever made the class decided on that restriction. I'm pretty certain it wasn't balance though.

[Boci]

True, but that's something you'll have to take up with your DM.

Sure, but this relates the topic, and since the origional question has been answered I thought I may asa well see what people felt about the restrictions.