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View Full Version : Help with a DM with less system mastery than myself.



Spellbound
2013-06-25, 07:59 PM
Hello, I've been a long time lurker on these forums and I first feel I should thank all of you for an interesting year of reading. I've learned more from just reading through posts here then I have in my, admittedly short career in D&D. But this is actually part of my problem. Basically I'm playing with a group with a very low level of optimization apart from myself and one other person who's new but he's found some good resources and he's playing a cleric. I'm a dread necromancer and I'm planning to take the full twenty levels for fluff reasons, and I enjoy being in the realm of tier 3. But the problem right now is the interaction between myself and the DM.
As a dread necro one of the things I would love to do is animate a few undead to use as meat shields and beatsticks. Sadly as a level I have none to my name. I had a Minotaur zombie for a short period of time. (The DM sent it after us on its own so I cast command undead) but this was killed by DM fiat before I even got to use it in combat. I let this slide as I figured I'd find other corpses later. However in every instance of combat all of the corpses disintegrate after death. More frustrating is the fact that in our first session we killed a blue dragon (CR 4 from the draconomicon. We were level 1 at the time with a level 3 or 4 character who was there to assist) and I'd managed to take the corpse with me after bluffing my way out of town (the townsfolk tried to stop me under the assumption that I was a necromancer... something I feel they shouldn't have known from taking a dragon corpse).
The problem started when in the first session after we animated the dragon corpse (we were level 6) we encountered an anti-dragon field around the dungeon we were going into. It was apparently a mile around in a sphere. I made a snide remark about the epic magic required for that but went along with it. The cleric ordered the dragon to circle around above the dungeon entrance which we had to climb down a staircase to reach. So we entered the dungeon and as we were going through it the DM began describing what everyone at the table rapidly concluded was our dragon getting killed outside of the dungeon at the bottom of the stairs. However we gave him the benefit of the doubt and no one accused him of anything. When we left and he tried to say that sadly our pet had been destroyed I decided to call him on this. I didn't appeal to the fact that he never bothered to look at the stats so that he didn't have something blatantly weaker then the undead he was trying to kill do it in (the Minotaur died to corpse crawlers), or that he ignored the fact that we'd given the dragon commands to not wait around. I basically said that this is unfair and if you didn't want people playing this kind of character you shouldn't just deny us stuff.
He refrained from killing our dragon without our characters being around but I don't feel the problem is done with. So I was wondering if I could get some friendly recommendations on things I could try to do to put my DM at ease.
Gah! I just realized I completely forgot to add why he has been so worried about the corpses! His encounters have generally been pulled straight from books and he uses one big creature for each encounter. He's been frustrated because we've been blowing through them since we have a fighter and a party of spell casters who buff or debuff. And a beguiler who punches things...

eggynack
2013-06-25, 08:08 PM
Have you tried the thing where you talk to him about the issues you're having, when the group isn't around, and things aren't heated? That's probably the best way. If he doesn't like the things you're capable of doing, he should just not allow it, instead of punishing you in-game. Either that, or you could help him with the whole lack of difficulty thing. Presumably, he should just run higher CR encounters, possibly with more enemies instead of just one. There's a bunch of explanations of what's happening, and a bunch of possible solutions, but you're not going to find any problems or solutions without using your regular conversation having superpowers.

Spellbound
2013-06-25, 08:22 PM
That's good advice I'm just a bit lost on where to start. Basically I'm looking for suggestions on what to start with. Also thank you for you quick response. ^_^

GreenETC
2013-06-25, 08:28 PM
Talk to him about it. If he's against you animating one big creature, see if you can convince him to animate 2 or 3 smaller creatures instead, and have them be archers or flankers in combat. Overall, you need to find out why he's so against the party doing this. If it's because of necromancy being evil, then ask if it's possible for you to play a different character or something, or find some sort of work around.

Spellbound
2013-06-25, 08:30 PM
I don't believe it's the necromancy being evil part as we talked about that during character creation. I'll ask about the number of minions thing. Thanks. :smallsmile:

eggynack
2013-06-25, 08:33 PM
It's not really a thing that has one surefire conversation. Just ask what he has a problem with, if anything, and move on from there. From the outside, it looks like he thinks that you're overpowered, but I can't know for certain without him actually saying stuff. Just try not to be overly confrontational, and figure things out on his terms a bit, and you should be fine.

GreenETC
2013-06-25, 08:41 PM
It's not really a thing that has one surefire conversation. Just ask what he has a problem with, if anything, and move on from there. From the outside, it looks like he thinks that you're overpowered, but I can't know for certain without him actually saying stuff. Just try not to be overly confrontational, and figure things out on his terms a bit, and you should be fine.
Considering you believe yourself to have more system mastery than him, I'd bet this is part of the problem. He probably looks at some of the stuff you're doing and is distrusting you due to either past experience or due to some sort of perceived strength, and maybe he sees your choices as being overly powerful, probably in part due to his choices for throwing huge baddies at you guys.

He's probably also thinking that having huge HP or huge damage is crazy, when what's really winning you fights is the strength of your debuffing casters there.

Spellbound
2013-06-25, 08:48 PM
That's about what I got. He's been very annoyed when the party caster have worked together. We've given his big creatures huge negatives to hit and damage so the encounters have been pretty one sided. And I wouldn't have known any better myself without the help of forums such as these.:smalltongue:

I think I'm going to bring up the possibility of having mooks in his encounters just so that we can't focus all of our debuffs on one creature. I'll also ask him what his expectation of an appropriate power level for this campaign is. That should at least get a dialog started. Thanks for the advice again. :smallsmile: