Core class battle

[PinkysBrain]

Specifying CL for scrolls and such is redundant since we use the "no custom item"-rule in the strictest sense, only listed items allowed, no CL changes allowed.
I don't think you really thought that through.

With a bit of a stretch you could say magic weapons with only (equivalent) enhancement bonuses are "listed" in the table. With no stretch of the imagination could the same be said of magic weapons with flat cost special abilities though, you have to apply a simple algorithmic approach to determine their price .... just like you can do with potions / scrolls / wands / staffs / intelligent items / etc (though intelligent items are not relevant for this game, since the minimum caster level for creation is 15). Hell, not all legal potions are in the DMG AFAIR.

Unless you want to outlaw weapons with flat cost special abilities you are using the "no custom item" rule in a very flexible sense ;)

PS. replace weapons with armors.

[The White Knight]

What flat-cost special abilities are there for weapons in the DMG?

[PinkysBrain]

Ugh ... should have said armor.

[The White Knight]

Ah, yes. Gotcha.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I don't think you really thought that through.

With a bit of a stretch you could say magic weapons with only (equivalent) enhancement bonuses are "listed" in the table. With no stretch of the imagination could the same be said of magic weapons with flat cost special abilities though, you have to apply a simple algorithmic approach to determine their price .... just like you can do with potions / scrolls / wands / staffs / intelligent items / etc (though intelligent items are not relevant for this game, since the minimum caster level for creation is 15). Hell, not all legal potions are in the DMG AFAIR.

Unless you want to outlaw weapons with flat cost special abilities you are using the "no custom item" rule in a very flexible sense ;)

PS. replace weapons with armors.

"Custom" here refers to the fact that we only allow "standard" items.
Everything listed is considered "standard".
You can still "customize" your items; combine different weapon enhancements/abilities, combine armor enhancements/abilities etc., subject to the price and caster level restrictions.

However you cannot buy a "non-standard" potion, scroll, wand etc.

[PinkysBrain]

Wow, they can't be made period? So even the caster players who take item creation feats are limited to the minimum caster levels for a given spell for potions/scrolls/etc? (And unable to make an oil of silence.)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I meant to write buy.

Silence, I believe, is not on the list in the first place because it is an area and not a target spell.
You do not see any potion of fireball, do you?

[PinkysBrain]

I meant to write buy.
I kinda knew you did ;) Just wanted to make very clear that there is nothing strict about how you are interpreting custom magic item rules (if they were custom they would be forbidden both for creation and purchase) nor is it about the believability of having "non standard" items available (since the nigh infinity of magic weapon/armor combinations are available). It's just completely arbitrary.

I perfectly understand that an arbitrary ruling is no less valid though, and there are too many builds now to turn back the clock. I already changed my build to use the "correct" potions, although it's not quite finished yet ... staying under a light load is proving hard.

PS. you are right about silence, silly WotC ... why make darkness work differently from silence in that respect?

PPS. One thing you might not have noticed browsing my build, I used hired spell casting ... you explicitly offered them to casters for item creation after all. "(unless you hire outside help with creation)" What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I kinda knew you did ;) Just wanted to make very clear that there is nothing strict about how you are interpreting custom magic item rules (if they were custom they would be forbidden both for creation and purchase) nor is it about the believability of having "non standard" items available (since the nigh infinity of magic weapon/armor combinations are available). It's just completely arbitrary.

I perfectly understand that an arbitrary ruling is no less valid though, and there are too many builds now to turn back the clock. I already changed my build to use the "correct" potions, although it's not quite finished yet ... staying under a light load is proving hard.

There is no balancing reason (wrt to potion, scrolls and wands) and it certainly is not for any in-game logic reason either, but hopefully it would have kept things simple and manageable for all, fewer errors when calculating prices and no illegal items (like Oils of Silence :smalltongue: ) etc.



PS. you are right about silence, silly WotC ... why make darkness work differently from silence in that respect?


Because Darkness works like Light. What you should be asking is: why make Silence work differently from Light/Darkness.
The answer to that could be that Light (and also Darkness)works like a ordinary light source, while Silence is just an Area spell.
I am not claiming that this is not arbitrary :smallsmile:



PPS. One thing you might not have noticed browsing my build, I used hired spell casting ... you explicitly offered them to casters for item creation after all. "(unless you hire outside help with creation)" What's good for the goose is good for the gander.


Ohh, I did notice. :smallamused:

[StickMan]

Every thing seems to be going good so far and stuff and junk. BUMP BUMPED BUMP BUMP.

And ever one should PEACH this class. Be honest no bonus DM points for sucking up. But if you don't post oh just wait and see ha ha ha ha ha coff.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29935

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

6 out of 11 approved now.

Approved characters:
Druid: The_Werebear
Monk: Falconsflight
Bard: Leush
Paladin: The White Knight
Ranger: Draz74
Wizard: Jade_Tarem
Fighter: PinkysBrain
Sorcerer:Bobbis
Barbarian:Pegasos989
Cleric:Rigeld2
Rogue:Hamster_Ninja

[SpiderBrigade]

So I thought I'd throw my 2 cents into this regarding the maps. This is the smallest yet. I also tried to represent the symmetrical battle-room style map to contrast with the more "naturalistic" ones we have so far.

http://www.geocities.com/treeelder/MAPP01.jpg
The chamber is 60 feet tall. All the wall-like things are stone/wall of force/DM fiat unpassable. Orange stuff is lava, tan/brown is sand. There's some areas of thick underbrush under the trees, I have another version shwoing that which I'm going to save space by not posting here. There's also an underground ice-tunnels/underwater area. I can PM those later if there's interest. I figured the trees would provide some kind of cover/concealment against flying foes. Also there are clouds of thick fog surrounding where the lava/water meet. (a wizard did it.)

[Katonta]

Nice map. First thing I thought when I saw it? TETRIS!!

Good luck all the same. I wouldn't think trees would protect very well from a flying wizard's spells (especially a fireball), but an underground ice tunnel would.

[SpiderBrigade]

Well, it's not JUST the trees. I guess I neglected to mention: the wall-blocks (except for the ones that are bridges) go all the way to the ceiling. My first thought was actually that there might be too much cover.

[Hamster_Ninja]

Alright, my character sheet is almost finished, I just need to fill in weights and values on the online version and write up a backstory. So, expect it sometime early tomorrow.

[Falconsflight]

I say randomize the maps, the good ones.

Can we get this started? I mean seriously. Hup-too people.

We could start early, I mean we got enough people. right?

[Jade_Tarem]

Well, we have to wait till New Years for that one guy (can't remember which) to get back from vacation. Unless he's the odd man out?

Ghk... are we supposed to write a backstory? I mean, I have a backstory, but I didn't submit it...

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

We have plenty of maps to choose from and we have enough people to run a few battles, but it would be nice to have all ready so no one has any prior knowledge of the opposition prior to character creation.

Backstories are nice, but nor required.

[Hamster_Ninja]

I have a question, if you increase your con modifer at 4th/8th level, you would do 4X/8X initial con mod, then 6X/2X final con mod, correct? Or do you just do 10X final modifer?

[PinkysBrain]

It doesn't matter when or how your con mod increases, you get extra hp for all your HD.

[Hamster_Ninja]

Ah, that simplify's things nicely then. I was thinking then of raising your Intelligence modifier and skill points.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Skill points are not gained retroactively when Int is raised after 1st level.

[Rigeld2]

I emailed my cleric off, but have been without internet at home for the past few days... not sure if it made it (they moved my phone to the house I just bought either while it was sending or right after)

[Jade_Tarem]

Was a descision ever made on maps? Or are new submissions still coming in?

[Hamster_Ninja]

Alright, one last question: Does the reduction of the armor check penalty by 3 for mithral armor include the -1 masterwork armor already gives, or does it reduce it by 4?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I emailed my cleric off, but have been without internet at home for the past few days... not sure if it made it (they moved my phone to the house I just bought either while it was sending or right after)

I did not receive it.


Was a descision ever made on maps? Or are new submissions still coming in?

I think we should keep submissions open until all contestants are approved.
Not making a final decision also ensures that there is no unfair advantage for the later approvals from knowing the terrain.


Alright, one last question: Does the reduction of the armor check penalty by 3 for mithral armor include the -1 masterwork armor already gives, or does it reduce it by 4?

The MW reduction is included, so the penalty is lessened by 3, not 4.

[Jade_Tarem]

Here's to wishing everyone soon to be killing each other a happy holiday season and a merry Christmas!

[Rigeld2]

I did not receive it.
Grrr.. and in my move my computer was dropped making my hard drive go kablooey. No problem, I'll resend it soon.

[Sundog]

So how goes this?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Ok, the holiday is over and people probably have exams or are behind on their New Year resolutions, but it would be nice if those who have not submitted anything or still need to make a few changes could give an ETA on when they will be sumitting your characters.

Thank you.


Approved characters:
Druid: The_Werebear
Monk: Falconsflight
Bard: Leush
Paladin: The White Knight
Ranger: Draz74
Wizard: Jade_Tarem
Fighter: PinkysBrain
Sorcerer:Bobbis
Barbarian:Pegasos989
Cleric:Rigeld2
Rogue:Hamster_Ninja

[Jade_Tarem]

Backstory coming soon to a mailbox near you, Silvanos!

[Hamster_Ninja]

I should be able to get mine in by sunday. I have all the stats and items done, I just need to check it to make sure I'm not a few hundred over.

[Shazzbaa]

Oooo, this looks interesting. (I finally decided to brave the TEN PAGES of posts to see what was up).

Not to butt in or anything like I always do, but for maps, I thought the idea of randomising "good ones" was nifty. Why don't you guys vote on the top maps (be that "vote for your favourite three" or "I think this one, and this one and this one and this one should be included) and randomise between the selected maps?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

So....

Pegasos989: how are things looking out for you?

Bobbis: I have not heard from you in a while, are you still with us?

[Katonta]

If one of them drops out (unlikely but you never know, and yes I do sound hopeful) I'd be glad to take his place. Just as a backup you know.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Thank you. I hope that it does not come to that, but it is always nice to have a backup. :-)

[Leush]

It's so dead in here. I certainly hope that everyone is still eagerly awaiting the launch of the project.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Well most of the not yet approved say that they are almost done.

I have not heard from Pegasos989 yet, but I have seen him around the forum.

Considering the time people have spend preparing their contribution I would be surprised if not most of them (and hopefully all) would want to follow through even though it has taken some time to get everyone ready.

[The_Werebear]

I am waiting for whenever.

[Jade_Tarem]

Prepped and Ready!
(Bonus points for naming the source of the quote)

You can bet I check it frequently. Maybe there should be some sort of announcement when the battles begin so that our lurker friends come back? :P

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yes, we should probably announce it just before the first battle starts.

[Draz74]

I'm kind of nervous about the battles, both because of the time commitment, and because I'm not confident of my ability to play my character well ... but FYI, I'm still watching this thread, expecting to participate.

[The White Knight]

Just figured I'd post to say I'm still in.

Jade_Tarem: is it from Starcraft, by chance? Sounds awfully familiar...

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

It is good to know that you are hanging in there:-)
I have talked to just about all of the 'not yet approved' and they have all insured me that their contribution will be on the way shortly.

[healbot42]

Prepped and Ready!
(Bonus points for naming the source of the quote)


Is it from the medic in Starcraft?

And also good luck to all of you. I'll be watching closely, and if all of the characters are as interesting as Jade_tarem's is this ought to be a fun battle.

[Jade_Tarem]

*Blush*

Sry, Healbot42 saw my sheet when he was at my house over the holidays... he doesn't mean to imply that all the others are boring. I've charged him to reveal none of the details.

and yes, it's the medic from starcraft

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Approved characters:
Druid: The_Werebear
Monk: Falconsflight
Bard: Leush
Paladin: The White Knight
Ranger: Draz74
Wizard: Jade_Tarem
Fighter: PinkysBrain
Sorcerer:Bobbis
Cleric:Rigeld2
Barbarian:Pegasos989
Rogue:Hamster_Ninja

[Pegasos989]

I am trying to finish my character but I first gotta browse through this thread to make sure I got all our rules and restrictions correctly for oneshot items and the right (currently trying to find if and oil costing 3'000gp is legal and if I can just buy one or two or if I should buy one for every fight)... Anyways, it should not be that long before you get the sheet.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

There is a link in my sig. (post 191 if I recall correctly)

All items are replenished, the restriction is CL 10 or 25 % of your starting gold on a single item.

[Pegasos989]

There is a link in my sig. (post 191 if I recall correctly)

All items are replenished, the restriction is CL 10 or 25 % of your starting gold on a single item.

Ah, thanks. That "spells and effects that last at least 1 hour / level" propably includes those from oils/potions too?

[Rainspattered]

Pegasos, I expect you to do me proud with the barbarian.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

That would be an effect, yes.

(According to WotC just about anything is an effect *rolleyes*)

[Pegasos989]

"Fatal error: Call to a member function IsSessionValid() on a non-object in /home/thetangl/root_profiler/engine/templates.php on line 145"

I...hates...the intarwebz...

Very well, I shall send you the character tomorrow then, when I have calmed down enough to stat it once again...

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Tangled is good, they provide date stamps also:-)
(Mythweavers don't)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Approved characters:
Druid: The_Werebear
Monk: Falconsflight
Bard: Leush
Paladin: The White Knight
Ranger: Draz74
Wizard: Jade_Tarem
Cleric:Rigeld2
Fighter: PinkysBrain
Barbarian:Pegasos989
Rogue:Hamster_Ninja
Sorcerer: ?

[Sundog]

Bump for interest.

[Raool]

I'm sory I don't have the time to read all the pages of this thread now but if someone can briefly explain to me how this would work I might be interested in playing the sorcerer. :)

[Morty]

Does that "?" next to sorcerer means that there are no Sorcerer player? If so, I could play a sorcerer.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Basically we are going to put all the core classes up against each other to see how they will fare in one on one combat.

There is a link in my sig to the rules for this battle (post 191).


We just lost our Sorcerer, but an earlier poster has already expressed an interest.
I have just sent a PM today to hear if he was in fact still interested.

If anyone else drops out or he is not interested I will certainly offer the next in line the spot. :smallsmile:
For now I can put you on the substitute list.

[Hamster_Ninja]

I'm still around too and interested in playing, and thanks to a snow day I'm 95% finished. Just need to spend a last few thousand gold and figure out encumbrance and I'm done. If you want a link to the work in progress Silvanos, I could send it to you.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Hamster_Ninja: Well, I might have time to give it a quick glance now. That might spare us both from extra work later on.

It looks like things are finally coming together :-)

Approved characters:
Druid: The_Werebear
Monk: Falconsflight
Bard: Leush
Paladin: The White Knight
Ranger: Draz74
Wizard: Jade_Tarem
Cleric: Rigeld2
Fighter: PinkysBrain
Barbarian:Pegasos989
Rogue:Hamster_Ninja
Sorcerer: katonta


Substitues
1. Raool
2. M0rt
3. endersdouble

DM-Backup
enderrocksonall

If anyone has expressed an interest in participating and have not been put on the list please let me know and I will correct the error asap.

[Katonta]

How come the Barb, the Rogue and the Sorcerer guys? This thread needs to survive!

[SpiderBrigade]

Plus there are backups. Is it time to tap them?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I have tried PM'ing TheOOB a couple of times, even asked to be notified when the message was read.
I have not heard back or even seen that he has received it.

Therefore..... katonta, would you be willing to play the Sorcerer?



How are the rest of the participants coming?

[endersdouble]

If there's still no Sorceror, I'll take it (not at all my personal choice, especially in core, but I'll live...)

[Rigeld2]

How are the rest of the participants coming?
Me and my surprise are gtg.

[Charity]

Anyone wanna make any bets?
I should run a book..


Now I just need some insider info to rig the odds in my favour, *looks over Silvanos' shoulder*

[Katonta]

Therefore..... katonta, would you be willing to play the Sorcerer?


Yes, I'll get started now and most likely finish (or get really close) after school.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yes, I'll get started now and most likely finish (or get really close) after school.

I adedd you to the list. :smallsmile:

Be careful about your estimates, many before you have tried giving me an estimate and failed miserably. :smallamused:

On that note; I will PM the remaining contestants who has yet to make their final submission and ask them to try and give a reasonable esitmate this time.

[Rigeld2]

I would like to say that I am happy to be a different green from the rest of the finished people, even if it is a barely discernable difference. Silvanos obviously knows who will win this contest and is coloring me different to let the others know to bow out now.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I would like to say that I am happy to be a different green from the rest of the finished people, even if it is a barely discernable difference. Silvanos obviously knows who will win this contest and is coloring me different to let the others know to bow out now.

I was merely trying to give Charity a hint. :smallamused:

[Jade_Tarem]

*Snort* Or it's a subliminal target message. Which reminds me of how much I hate you, Rigeld2...:P

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Maps:

Random assignment before each match.

Map Dizlag
Map Medieve
Map SpiderBrigade

katontas map will not be featured since he is now a contestant.



The first map is without the grid and grid letters/numbers. The second one is with the grid and grid letters/numbers.

http://static.flickr.com/142/321644727_66bdc73bb9_o_d.jpg


And here it is with the grid and labels ...

http://static.flickr.com/130/321644721_c1856a35bf_o_d.jpg


Again, those are 5' squares making this final version (I hope ;-) a 385' wide by 265' high map. 77 5' squares wide and 53 5' squares high.

A couple of notes about the map:

1) Dimensions: 385' wide by 265' high with 40' ceilings. Towers A, B, C, and D are 30' tall. Towers E, F, G, H, and I are 20' tall.

2) The North quadrant of trees are Pines, the East quadrant of trees are Firs, the South quadrant of trees are Conifers, and the West quadrant of trees are Willows. They're all about 25' - 30' high making them about 10' - 15' higher than the top of the walkways.

Everything 5 feet from the tower is covered in Light Undergrowth


Undergrowth: Vines, roots, and short bushes cover much of the ground in a forest. A space covered with light undergrowth costs 2 squares of movement to move into, and it provides concealment. Undergrowth increases the DC of Tumble and Move Silently checks by 2 because the leaves and branches get in the way.

The background noise in the forest makes Listen checks more difficult, increasing the DC of the check by 2 per 10 feet, not 1.

(Listen checks are not affected on the walkways.)

3) The 3 islands in the water are mucky, swampy areas that have mossy rocks on them for cover.

4) The water surrounding the center forests is anywhere from 5' to 10' deep.

5) The North half of the outer ground area is sandy. The Southern half of the outer ground area is covered in snow.

6) Again, the walkways are 10' off the ground, 10' wide with a 5' high side and no ceiling, and the top of the side is 15' off the ground. There are appropriate stairs, floors, and landings in each of the 9 towers.

7) The towers block line of sight and effect through them and you can only look into a tower if you are next to it, but you can still hear sounds from the tower.

8) I suggested before to start the 2 combatants in separate towers on the ground, walkway-level or top floor (Player's choice). There are doors on the ground floor marked by little brow rectangles ... if it opens into water, picture a small 5' wide by 5' long dock to walk out on.





http://laughy.net/medieve/dnd/rooms/arenamap_surface.jpg
http://laughy.net/medieve/commission/map_legend.jpg
- At location M4 (Small map, next to the Magic Nexus) a lever is located.

- Starting Locations: C6, N33, l28, n6

- The Magic Nexus sends out bursts of electricity at random intervals.

- The miniature forts themselves are made of a stone base and then a wooden platform on top, the murder holes are merely sections opened in the wood for arrows.

- The round building's outer wall is made of 1 foot-thick stone wall. The walls inside the building are stone walls braced with iron, and the room that contains the portal nexus are lead plated.

- The outer roof is made up of stone shingles with stone corbeling to create its structure.

- The ceiling is at a height of 70 feet.

- The smaller trees are 25-30 feet tall. The large ones 35-40 feet tall.


Sorry about the delay, here is my final map. A few things should be clarified:

First of all, the map as shown is completely symmetrical, but the top and bottom show different aspects of the map: the top shows the areas of cover (optional, see below) provided by the trees, while the bottom shows the areas of thick underbrush beneath the trees. Similarly, the left side of the map indicates a cloud of steam (area 4) which rises from the collision of water and lava, and works like Fog Cloud (the spell). Strong wind disperses the cloud only temporarily, it returns in 1 round. This is not shown on the right, to allow the terrain to be more clearly visible.

The dark grey walls do extend to the very top of the arena. The light grey structures are only 10 ft. tall. This can be seen in the elevation.

The elevation view also has an optional idea illustrated for figuring cover: while under the trees, a character may have some degree of concealment from flying creatures. The light green section provides concealment; the dark green, total concealment. Thus, character "A" gains no concealment, while character "B" has partial concealment from character "D." Meanwhile, "E" has total concealment from "D", but only partial concealment from "C."

The terrain labeled "dense underbrush" in the key counts as difficult terrain and grants partial concealment.

The steps marked "5" lead onto the 10' stone walls. Other stairways lead down, and are equivalent with similarly-numbered stairways on the second-level map. The stairs marked 6 lead into the third, water-filled level as seen in the elevation. The central, darker water leads both upwards, to connect with the top level under the stone wall, and downwards to an infinite abyss.

The chamber is 55 feet tall.

Players should start at the positions marked "1," either above ground or in the tunnels below.

http://www.geocities.com/treeelder/compomap.jpg


Let me know if anything else needs clarification.

(Quotes have been altered by me and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the artist. All errors are mine.)

[Rigeld2]

I abstain. I will rule over all (Even you Jade! :p) even on terrain of thier choice.

[Golthur]

I abstain. I will rule over all (Even you Jade! :p) even on terrain of thier choice.

Ooooh! Them's fightin' words! :tongue:

[Rigeld2]

RAWR! :)
too short

[The_Werebear]

I say we go with all three maps.

[Jade_Tarem]

A mixup *would* be interesting so I would say all three as well, but if we need to vote on one I say Dizlag FTW.

And to Rigeld2 I say "You and what divine metamagic?" :P

[Rigeld2]

And to Rigeld2 I say "You and what divine metamagic?" :P
Who needs Divine Metamagic? I have an ace up my sleeve.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I like how the tension is already building up and how the name calling has already started :-p

[Katonta]

I adedd you to the list. :smallsmile:

Be careful about your estimates, many before you have tried giving me an estimate and failed miserably. :smallamused:


Ya, I was just excited. Give me a few days then and I should be good give or take a day. But I'll try to get it done as soon as possible without rushing it.

EDIT: I vote for a combo of all three

[crazedloon]

can i be added to the waiting list

[Jade_Tarem]

Who needs Divine Metamagic? I have an ace up my sleeve.

Oh heck, I don't even know your race... It's not the gnomish death grip, is it? The one with tongs? I surrender if that's what it is...

[Just Alex]

If you need a replacement for anything, send me a PM and give me a day or so to make the build.

[Hamster_Ninja]

I vote for a combo of all three, to force everyone to change up tactics. Because I'll break the shins of anyone anywhere on any plane of existence. Hows that for setting high hopes?

[Katonta]

Don't you get a feat every two levels? starting at 1, then 3, 5, 7, 9? Or is it three?
I just have a mind fart right now and can't remember.

[Hamster_Ninja]

Its every three (1, 3, 6, 9, etc.)

[Teloric]

Looking forward to this everyone. Fight the good fight!

[Katonta]

Its every three (1, 3, 6, 9, etc.)
Thanks!!!!

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I updated the waiting list with crazedloon and Just Alex.

[Rigeld2]

Oh heck, I don't even know your race... It's not the gnomish death grip, is it? The one with tongs? I surrender if that's what it is...
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Katonta]

Do bonus spells apply to spells per day or spells known? One last thing, do you count lava as water, as in you can use the water walk spell to cross it? Just clarifying a few things.

[StickMan]

Hi every body. Wow I thought this had fallen in the crack after the holidays I some how must have keept missing it casue it seems like there have been alot of post the last month. So what I think I'm tring to say is sorry for not being around to help out with this, but I'm back now to help out with what ever.

Off to read 3 pages of posts that I'm behind on.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Do bonus spells apply to spells per day or spells known? One last thing, do you count lava as water, as in you can use the water walk spell to cross it? Just clarifying a few things.

Bonus spells only applies to spells per day.

Water walk can be used to cross water, but you would still be taking damage from the heat.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Hi every body. Wow I thought this had fallen in the crack after the holidays I some how must have keept missing it casue it seems like there have been alot of post the last month. So what I think I'm tring to say is sorry for not being around to help out with this, but I'm back now to help out with what ever.

Off to read 3 pages of posts that I'm behind on.


You have not missed that much really. I started a vote on the maps and are trying to collect the last few submissions.

[Katonta]

Bonus spells only applies to spells per day.

Water walk can be used to cross water, but you would still be taking damage from the heat.

Ok, thanks.

[Truffles]

I'll be a back up sorceror. Its my favorite class.

For credibility i used to argue with TLN before he made his batman guide that sorcerors are better than wizards.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I have put you on the list.

Substitues
1. Raool (non-Druid)
2. M0rt (all)
3. endersdouble
4. crazedloon (all)
5. Just Alex
6. Truffles

[Raool]

Weee, I'm first in line.

[Jade_Tarem]

Is anyone else feeling just a little pressure here? Like from the fanatics? "Such and such should be able to win - if it's played right." (Dun Dun DUN!)

Just wondering, cause I've heard that now for every class, from paladin to wizard to druid to bard. Rogue seems to be a crowd favorite.

[Golthur]

Is anyone else feeling just a little pressure here? Like from the fanatics? "Such and such should be able to win - if it's played right." (Dun Dun DUN!)

Just wondering, cause I've heard that now for every class, from paladin to wizard to druid to bard. Rogue seems to be a crowd favorite.

Well, yes. It's obvious that if you lose, you DID IT WRONG! :tongue:

Seriously, though, no pressure on my part, I'm just interested to see the builds and the outcome.

[Rigeld2]

Is anyone else feeling just a little pressure here? Like from the fanatics? "Such and such should be able to win - if it's played right." (Dun Dun DUN!)

Just wondering, cause I've heard that now for every class, from paladin to wizard to druid to bard. Rogue seems to be a crowd favorite.
I feel the pressure :) But my build isnt a typical cleric build so itll be "interesting" to see how it goes. :)

[The_Werebear]

Tell me about the presure thing. I just like playing druids, but I am not sure if I will do well in terms of the "OMG destroy" terms.

[Leush]

Everyone is bound to win some battles
Laws of probability people! Nothing to it.
Expect EVEN the bard shall have a victory or two to brag about when it's over.

[Rigeld2]

Expect EVEN the bard shall have a victory or two to brag about when it's over.
That might be stretching it a little bit...

[Draz74]

Tell me about the presure thing. I just like playing druids, but I am not sure if I will do well in terms of the "OMG destroy" terms.

Hmmm. I bet you'll do just fine. At least, I'm not looking forward to facing you.

... wait. You didn't forget to take Natural Spell, did you? :smallwink:

Actually, it's easy to build a powerful druid for this sort of contest. Playing him well enough to win, on the other hand (including choosing "Spells Prepared," and choosing Wild Shape forms on the fly), takes some real skill.

But yeah, that would be scary if everyone expected me to win. Good thing I chose Ranger. No one *checks poll* well, only 4 people expect me to win. Phew!

[The_Werebear]

Well... I took natural spell, and am using borderline tactics..but yeah, I have a lot to live up to.

[Charity]

Well... I took natural spell, and am using borderline tactics..but yeah, I have a lot to live up to.

No use trying to lengthen your odds, we know you're betting on yourself.:smallbiggrin:

[The_Werebear]

Well of course.

[Katonta]

Finished the sorcerer and am now PM'ing it to you Silvanos

[Jade_Tarem]

Ok, so it's late and I'm reading over some of the early stuff in this thread, and I got a little worried.

Did we, or did we not, alter the rules so that everyone is fighting everyone else? The early rules state that it's single elimination - limiting us to, I think, 10 fights (4 wins possible). Later the talk is that it will be all-on-all, or non-elimiation, so that there will be 55 fights (10 wins possible), with wins and win v. lose tallied up at the end to show which class stacks up against which, and perhaps a 56th "cage" fight with all the classes in the fight at the end just for kicks.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Non-elimination league with 55 fights in total.

[daggaz]

No way, 56 fights! Go cage!

[SpiderBrigade]

Cage doesn't prove much, though, daggaz. You can't tell who would win in a fighter/wizard fight, if the wizard gets taken out by the cleric early on, and the fighter spends most of the match chasing the paladin around.

That said, I think the idea of a free-for-all as the 56th fight would be a lot of fun. Could be a headache to run though so it's up the DMs.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

That said, I think the idea of a free-for-all as the 56th fight would be a lot of fun. Could be a headache to run though so it's up the DMs.

If we get that far I do not mind running it.
It would take a while and be messy though :smalltongue:

[daggaz]

I voted for the cage purely for the fun aspect =)

[Hamster_Ninja]

Cage fight would be insane, though those with low use per day abilities *cough*paladin*cough* might be a bit worse for wear and it would be crazy to DM.

[Roland St. Jude]

I'm not sure what your intent is, but when you get around to actually running these please do so in the PbP forum. You can simply put links here to each thread. And, of course, discussion can continue here. Thanks!

~Roland

(P.S. Really this thread, as a PbP recruiting thread, should be in PbP, too; but I was loathe to uproot it once it was underway.)

[Hamster_Ninja]

For purposes of spells that vary by familiarity, how familiar are we with our opponents (have met, have no idea who they are, are good friends with, etc.)?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

For purposes of spells that vary by familiarity, how familiar are we with our opponents (have met, have no idea who they are, are good friends with, etc.)?

You only have secondhand knowledge at best. You have not meet them and have not seen them.

[Bender]

Cage doesn't prove much, though, daggaz. You can't tell who would win in a fighter/wizard fight, if the wizard gets taken out by the cleric early on, and the fighter spends most of the match chasing the paladin around.

Just love the idea, but let me interfere a little. 55 fights still wouldn't prove much. Since a lot depends on the players and on luck. You would need hundreds of fights with different players and different DMs to make some statistical statement. This would probably require a separate place in the forum with strictly defined rules and anyone can play whatever he wants, and has to fight at least against several opponents with exactly the same character. After some years, you might want to sell the outcome to WotC, because it might be valuable information to balance the classes in edition 4 :smallamused:

Don't even think about proving anything valuable for every character level from 1 to 20...

anyway, have fun everyone, and may the best singer win.

[Leush]

Ofcourse it doesn't prove anything- maths proves things: This is mearly evidence for how midlevel characters fare in pvp against one another. You haven't demonstrated how good they are out of combat in settings A, B, C, D and X, and you have no idea how they'll handle monsters which have completely different characteristics to Player Characters.

As for luck, we can make a measure of luck for each battle: The average die roll the player received as a percentage out of the maximum. I actually would like to do this, because... Ummm.... Statistics.... Taking... Over..... My... Brain.....

[Bender]

... Ummm.... Statistics.... Taking... Over..... My... Brain.....

Yes, it can do that... :smalltongue:

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

It would be fun to track the die rolls and see how much luck each contestant has.

What a great idea:-D

[Bender]

Splendid,

If you want to even out luck, you can pre-roll everything, and each contestant gets the same rolls in a different order...

of course: some rolls are more crucial than others, and some have a higher chance than others to fail or succeed (rolling a 20 on a spot check with DC 5 is less lucky than on an attack roll against AC 50)

seems like I failed my will-save against statistical brain-take-overs...

anyway, just tracking the rolls would be great :smallbiggrin:

[daggaz]

well, if you define 'lucky' by just rolling a 20 or not rolling a one, it would probably be kinda pointless as everyone will be using an online algorithm (and hopefully the SAME one!!!), and said algorithm's tend to have mechanisms to balance out extreme outliers. Basically, everybody over enough iterrations will have pretty much the same 'luck.'If you differentiate between when a player rolls a 20 or a 1 and the effects thereof, it would be much much harder and timeconsuming, but it would get a little closer to actual luck.

[Leush]

Removing rolls is not cool, we're still *playing* d&d and not, I don't know... What stop looking at me like that! I said I. Don't. Know. In any casee, it screws with the mechanics. Prerolling is the same as rolling in combat, statistically speaking, and a lot less fun for the people involved, since the unknown is always alluring, even whilst frightening.


Daggaz: Yes, ones and twenties ARE a lot more significant.... We could also count the number of ones and twenties. As I said, I'm just interested in counting things.... One banana... Two bananas.... Three bananas, four... five potatoes, six potatoes, seven potatoes, eight tomatoes... More!!!

[Bender]

Removing rolls is not cool, we're still *playing* d&d and not, I don't know... What stop looking at me like that! I said I. Don't. Know. In any casee, it screws with the mechanics. Prerolling is the same as rolling in combat, statistically speaking, and a lot less fun for the people involved, since the unknown is always alluring, even whilst frightening.


with prerolling I mean the DM or a computer makes the rolls, scrambles them up and reproduces them at random, thus making no difference for the player. If the online rollers have a balancing mechanism (I didn't know that, but it's really great!), that might have a similar effect.

anyway, I wasn't really making a serious suggestion, just got carried away with the statistics involved... I have decided not to elaborate more on this thread :smallcool:

The fun of the game stands above all!! May the best grappler win.

[Jade_Tarem]

Well, for continuing class feature stack-ups, you could run a 57th fight: All 11 classes in a party vs. a campaign made by Stickman and Silvanos. Wouldn't that be fun? At the end we'll calculate damage dealt, spells cast, actions performed, damage taken, successful skill checks, successful saves, level progression, party interaction, emote usage, loot division, explitives used, baddies bumped, collateral damage dealt, total imprisonments, total accidental damage to party, total "accidental" damage to party, spell/attack efficiency, - and then do the awards: the BBEG slayer award, the MVP award, the most popular character award, the most musical character award (bard has to get something), prettiest character award, dirtiest character award, most beat-on character award, character with the most expensive equipment award, character who all the other characters would have voted off the island first if this were Survivor: DnD award, most explosive character award, most mysterious character award.... and so forth and so on.

I need help.

[ishi]

Well, for continuing class feature stack-ups, you could run a 57th fight: All 11 classes in a party vs. a campaign made by Stickman and Silvanos. Wouldn't that be fun? At the end we'll calculate damage dealt, spells cast, actions performed, damage taken, successful skill checks, successful saves, level progression, party interaction, emote usage, loot division, explitives used, baddies bumped, collateral damage dealt, total imprisonments, total accidental damage to party, total "accidental" damage to party, spell/attack efficiency, - and then do the awards: the BBEG slayer award, the MVP award, the most popular character award, the most musical character award (bard has to get something), prettiest character award, dirtiest character award, most beat-on character award, character with the most expensive equipment award, character who all the other characters would have voted off the island first if this were Survivor: DnD award, most explosive character award, most mysterious character award.... and so forth and so on.

I need help.

Trying to quantify character value by keeping track of everything in an 11-man campaign? Are you some sort of mind-masochist? :smallbiggrin:

[daggaz]

Leusch, my point was that if everyone used the same online roller, after tallying up all the dice over all of these very many fights, everybody should end up with something very close to the same percentage, if the algorithm is worth its salt. And people should use the same roller, because any luck introduced any other way would be a pure artifact of the different algorithms... and some algorithms might be very bad and have a higher habit of say, tossing out a ton of 20's or a ton of 1's.

Making short lists of numbers and randomnizing them for each players has several major downfalls. You limit the number of results available for one, and these lists of results will have a hard time being statistically balanced compared to eachother. One way to ensure balance, would be to just have a list with 1-20 on it, then randomize that for each player. But now your choices are very limited (ie if you roll a twenty, you arent getting another one for another 19 rolls. Its unrealistic). So you can either lengthen the lists, but now you are dealing with a lot of numbers and you might as well use a random number generator, or you can try to 'curve' the list, so it has a few iterations of the same high numbers, as well as some of the lower... but this is still fumbling with the numbers and in all ideality, you should have a 1/20 chance for each roll.

[Jade_Tarem]

Trying to quantify character value by keeping track of everything in an 11-man campaign? Are you some sort of mind-masochist? :smallbiggrin:

Maybe. In reality I was sort of hoping that a bunch of people would catch on and support it as a way of making Silvanos pee himself. I've had a bad day today.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Maybe. In reality I was sort of hoping that a bunch of people would catch on and support it as a way of making Silvanos pee himself. I've had a bad day today.

We will see who will be peeing themselves when you are beaten by Leush the Bard :smalltongue:
(Leush: No compliment intended)

On a slightly more serious note: The Rogue Hamster_Ninja should be able to add some final touches Sunday.
I have also sent an message to Barbarian Pegasos989 to at least respond before Sunday with some kind of indication that he is still interested in participating.

If he does not the substitutes are hopefully ready to take over.
My goal is to start this sometime next week! :smallsmile:

[Katonta]

WOO! Go substitutes!

Oh ya, almost forgot. Yay for hopefully starting next week!

[Raool]

Uuu barbarian ! Goody. :P

[Raool]

So what's happening. Everybody stopped posting.

[The White Knight]

I've just been waiting patiently for someone to tell me "okay, it's time for Paladin vs. X", heh. I'm indifferent to the map selection (although the one with zounds of little closely-packed walls/barriers in it would certainly cripple any mounted effectiveness on my part, nearly nullifying one of my class features... maybe. Mind you, the symmetry does make my eyes happy).

[PinkysBrain]

Well I'm ready and have said about as much about the rules and the map as I have to say.

I could talk about tactics, but that would only ruin my chances :)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I have not heard from Pegasos989, so I have removed him from the list of contestants and added the first substitute as our new Barbarian: Raool.

I hope you are ready and will be able to send me something within a week.

I recommend using www.thetangledweb.net (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/www.thetangledweb.net) for character sheets, but it is obviously not a requirement.

Read the rules for this battle (link in my sig) and remember to specify weights and prices, both individual and total.

[Raool]

I'm on it. :smallwink:

[Raool]

Aaaaand I'm done.:smalltongue:

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Aaaaand I'm done.:smalltongue:

Very, very close :smalltongue:


EDIT: Barbarian approved.
Just one more to go......

[Jade_Tarem]

Cool! Er, Which one?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Approved characters:
Druid: The_Werebear
Monk: Falconsflight
Bard: Leush
Paladin: The White Knight
Ranger: Draz74
Wizard: Jade_Tarem
Cleric: Rigeld2
Fighter: PinkysBrain
Sorcerer: katonta
Barbarian:Raool


Approval or submission pending:

Rogue:Hamster_Ninja


If you want to make any changes to your approved character you can do it until some time before the first battle.

You have to let us know before you change anything, so it is easy for us to track any changes and re-approve them.



Substitues
1. M0rt (all)
2. endersdouble (Wiz/Sor/Clr/Drd/Bard)
3. crazedloon (all)
4. Just Alex (all)
5. Truffles (all, but strong preference for Sorcerer)


If anyone has expressed an interest in participating and have not been put on the list please let me know and I will correct the error asap.

[Leush]

I take it that we're starting as soona s everyone's in, right? Right? My loot is itching to play my funereal dirge....

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Right:-)

Does anyone have a good suggestion for a dice-roller?
If we want to keep the fog-of-war going it will probably be best if the contestants could roll at least the initial rolls in secret.

[Marius]

invisiblecastle?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

That would also be my choice.

The downside is that you can see all rolls made by everyone. That could be exploited if someone was really determined to cheat.

Using different names (other than the screen names here) would go a long way to prevent this of course, but someone might actually still deduce who their opponent is.

Unless someone comes up with another great online roller we will probably go with Invisible Castle.

Thank you, Marius:-)

[SpiderBrigade]

How does seeing the rolls let someone potentially cheat? Unless they can see what the rolls are for? I mean, if it's an issue, it's an issue. But I kind of also think we can probably trust one another around here.

[Marius]

Maybe everyone could send the links with rolls to you and then you could post the results without the links and maybe without the modifiers, only the final result. So if someone gets a natural 20 on his will save the other player might think that he could have a really high will save. Or maybe you could avoid posting any numeric result, posting only the result of an action. The players will have to trust that you won't cheat them but they should do that anyway.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I was not greatly concerned and it probably won't even become an issue. (I doubt the possible information gain is worth the trouble it would be to find the relevant rolls on Invisible Castle and if anyone would actually try.)

I think it is a good idea to keep the rolls hidden.
It will hopefully also make the combat descriptions more fluffy and maybe challenge the story telling skills of these hardcore combatants.

I will of course keep the crunchy bits for statistical analysis and such ;-)

[Leush]

If anything, i think that rolls shouldn't be hidden, since with invisible castle or the like, you can put a roll under aslightly different title or whatnot.
I would actually advocate the players making rolls on a gitp roller thread and pming silvanos what the rolls are for. That way there will not be any 'real' cheating.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Well, in many cases the opponent won't have a hard time guessing what the roll is for.

DM: A, you were hit and take X damage.

A thinking: B just rolled 1d20 and 1d8=Y. I took X in damage, if I deduct Y from that I get A's modifier to damage and based on that and the 1d20 roll I also have a a fairly good idea about the modifier to attack.

And even worse for spells and saves and some opposed checks.


That was the main reason for wanting to use Invisible Castle or similar "hidden" rollers.

[Raool]

The way that I envisioned the battles was like this.
Both players separately pming the DM on an instant messenger with their actions and the DM telling the other only what his character sees.
That way the players couldn't get any information they wouldn't be supposed to have in the first place.
Also potentially metagaming rolls would be done by the DM. So if the fighter got close to the rogue the DM would roll a spot check for him so as to not give him information on the rogue's whereabouts even if he fails his check.

Afterwards the DM can compose a battle description which only includes damage numbers, rest will be fluff, and post it here.
After all the fights have been fought he could give access to the detailed information containing attack rolls, levels of spells used, you name it.

That's one way of keeping it fair. Because if it would be like regular PbP it would give away an enormous amount of metagaming knowledge to the players.
"You see your target 30 feet north of you, roll a hide check and B, you roll a spot check. You didn't see A 30 feet south of you."
My 2c.

[SpiderBrigade]

Hmm, here's a question: would it be too much work on the DMs part to just do all the rolls behind the curtain? And PM any of their own rolls that players wanted to know, for things like setting Power Attack, etc?

[Marius]

Maybe it's a lot of work, maybe it's not. But players usually like to do the rolls themselves.

[The_Werebear]

I would be willing simply to give my actions to the DM and let him roll if that works better.

[Raool]

What do you care, you're the druid. :smalltongue:

[Jade_Tarem]

Huh, I always kinda assumed we would simply use the Dice-roller inside a PM to Silvanos/Stickman and then have the result fed back to us as something descriptive. If I cast, for example, Disintegrate and the description comes back as "He grunts and smolders a second, but didn't seem to be too badly affected." Then I know that he probably made his save, but it tells me nothing other than that. I don't know what he rolled because it was a PM sent to Silvanos, nor do I know what his modifier is, or what circumstance bonuses or extra effects he may have to mitigate a disitegration spell. Similarly, if a target recieves the message "You see Katonta fire a green ray of light at you - you try to avoid but are struck by it anyhow; Make a fort save." Tells the target that Katonta beat his touch AC but not anything else, for all the target knows Katonta may have rolled a 20. And when he rolls and receives the messsage "It burns, but not so bad as to cripple you," he knows that he made the save, but not precisely what the DC was, whereas "You turn into a fine powder," helpfully lets the target know that the fight is over, but once again, not what the DC was. :P

I had sort of also assumed that the commentary thread would be shown as if the boudaries to the battlegrounds were transparent and had a crowd of spectators on the other side, so that the posted message would read "You see Draz 74 open fire on Leush, who manages to get enough cover between them to avoid getting hit." rather than "Draz 74 attacks for 24, 15, and a 23 but the 24 and 23 fail due to 9/10 cover being present, and the failed rolls of 87% and 22%. It is now Leush's turn."

I dunno, am I that far off? I guess I don't visualize things the same way as the other people here... :(

[Draz74]

No, that's about how I pictured it too. Except for me being the example. :smallwink: Or me missing. :smallbiggrin:

Though I'm OK with the DM rolling everything too, even though I'm not the Druid.

As long as the DM sends use news of our rolls.

(And even the Druid at least has to worry about the Cleric! ...)

[Truffles]

i think the dm should make all rolls. No metagaming.

[Leush]

Ooo.. someone had a better idea than me. I vote for pming rolls using the in site roller. Now I'm scared of Jadetarem. Not only is he playing the wizard, but he's using his brain...

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I was not aware that the site roller worked in PMs?

Could someone please send me a roll in a PM?

Please post here that you have sent it so I do not get bombarded with rolls. (My inbox is not exactly empty)

[Raool]

How does one roll on the site ?
/random 100 ? :P

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

There is a thread for it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27768).

Rolling in PMs does not work.
I think the best alternative so far is Invisible castle (http://invisiblecastle.com/).

[Bender]

I was not aware that the site roller worked in PMs?

Could someone please send me a roll in a PM?

Please post here that you have sent it so I do not get bombarded with rolls. (My inbox is not exactly empty)

I sent you some rolls. I don't know about you, but I didn't see any results in them.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Thanks Bender (and Leush)

We can always hope they integrate it at some point.

[PinkysBrain]

Can't you just use secret names on invisible castle for each player?

[Quietus]

http://www.irony.com/mailroll.html

This site lets you do your rolls and have the results sent to the DM's email inboxes. The players will know what they rolled, but their opponents won't. I feel that's fair.

I'll put my hat in for a backup DM position if something comes up - long as someone gives me a quick brief on what's expected beforehand, since you guys have had the time to set this stuff up and know generally how you're going to work everything.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Secret names would be very secure, but it still annoyed me that they make all rolls public.

http://www.irony.com/mailroll.html is exactly what I was looking for. Safe and reliable with instant DM notification.
Thank you Quietus.
Unless someone objects strongly I suggest we use that.


We have a few backup DMs already, but I will add you to the list :-)

[Quietus]

Glad to be of service, I found that when I was looking for something for my IRC games that I run. I decided to keep the URL around just in case.

[The_Werebear]

Works for me.

[Jade_Tarem]

Ayup, when do we start?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I have not heard from Hamster_Ninja yet...

[blacksabre]

Sorry if this has been answered..
Out of curiosity..will the participants be told who their opponents are prior to the start??

Casters or melees would gain an advantage depending on the answer..

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yes, they will know which class they are up against.

[Raool]

How much time are you going to wait for the rogue ? It may be faster if the next replacement would start preparing a rogue.

[Golthur]

I'm all giddy with anticipation. :amused:

[nivek1234]

Or you could start the other battles while waiting.

[Draz74]

Then the Rogue player, in the unlikely event that he is still participating and is planning to cheat by remaining silent, could glean information from the battles about his opponents' strengths and weaknesses and optimize his character to face them specifically. And that would be sad. It's not likely, but it's a preventable form of cheating, so why not prevent it?

[nivek1234]

Fair enough.

[Quietus]

I'd also be willing to take over a player position if one comes available and a thing is needed.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I have added you to the list. :-)

The next substitute is M0rt if Hamster_Ninja decides to back out or fails to post.

However, I did receive a rough draft a while ago and he did seem to indicate that he should be able to work on it this week.

[Raool]

So he has 'till Sunday ?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Let us say that if he has not posted by Saturday or otherwise indicated his intentions to submit a contestant, I will send him a PM with a final deadline.

[Sundog]

So, have we a final deadline?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I am awaiting a response :-)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

The Rogue should be ready next weekend.

[SpiderBrigade]

Sorry about the delay, here is my final map. A few things should be clarified:

First of all, the map as shown is completely symmetrical, but the top and bottom show different aspects of the map: the top shows the areas of cover (optional, see below) provided by the trees, while the bottom shows the areas of thick underbrush beneath the trees. Similarly, the left side of the map indicates a cloud of steam (area 4) which rises from the collision of water and lava, and works like Fog Cloud (the spell). Strong wind disperses the cloud only temporarily, it returns in 1 round. This is not shown on the right, to allow the terrain to be more clearly visible.

The dark grey walls do extend to the very top of the arena. The light grey structures are only 10 ft. tall. This can be seen in the elevation.

The elevation view also has an optional idea illustrated for figuring cover: while under the trees, a character may have some degree of concealment from flying creatures. The light green section provides concealment; the dark green, total concealment. Thus, character "A" gains no concealment, while character "B" has partial concealment from character "D." Meanwhile, "E" has total concealment from "D", but only partial concealment from "C."

The terrain labeled "dense underbrush" in the key counts as difficult terrain and grants partial concealment.

The steps marked "5" lead onto the 10' stone walls. Other stairways lead down, and are equivalent with similarly-numbered stairways on the second-level map. The stairs marked 6 lead into the third, water-filled level as seen in the elevation. The central, darker water leads both upwards, to connect with the top level under the stone wall, and downwards to an infinite abyss.


Players should start at the positions marked "1," either above ground or in the tunnels below.

http://www.geocities.com/treeelder/compomap.jpg


Let me know if anything else needs clarification.

[Shades of Gray]

Bard was taken

[Katonta]

Two things: 1. are the effects for familiar loss immiediate or are we going to just pass over that?
2. Does the familliar have to be there to apply the bonus?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yes, they are immediate and yes, it has to be there.

[Katonta]

Ok, one more thing. How long do hours/level spells last if you used that spell before the battle?

[Raool]

- You are allowed to have spells and effects that last at least 1 hour / level active at the start of battle.

So 10 hours if you're level 10.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

The normal duration. We do not deduct any time, but I hope it does not become relevant :-p

[Katonta]

Ok, thanks guys, that clears some things up.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

So 10 hours if you're level 10.

Yes.

(This message is now long enough to be posted)

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Aww, crud, completely missed this. Wouldn't suppose you'd allow me a couple hours to bring in a character would you?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Aww, crud, completely missed this. Wouldn't suppose you'd allow me a couple hours to bring in a character would you?

You missed 400+ posts :smalleek:

Call the Ad-Agency! Fire them!!

How are we going to fill the Coliseum :smalltongue:


All positions are filled at the moment, but if there is a second round of this your name will be on the list.

[Piccamo]

For a second round we could just do any core or core + complete entry (subject to DM approval) people feel like rather than a class v. other class battle. I'd totally be up for that.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yes, I think we should be more flexible and at least allow CORE multiclassing and maybe even CORE PRC or Complete Series.

But it will take a while to get through these 55 battles....
Just look at how long it has taken for everyone to submit their character.

[Piccamo]

While its helpful and friendly to give people as much time as they'd like, I think based on this experience hard time limits may be necessary.

[Leush]

That's because we recruited here rather than the OOC forum. If we did it there and with a tough deadline we would have half a dozen builds for each class by the time christmas came rolling around. Which is why I'm glad that recruiting was completed here.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

While its helpful and friendly to give people as much time as they'd like, I think based on this experience hard time limits may be necessary.

Yes, I think I made a note of that somewhere :smallamused:

However, things will be running next week.
Wonder if the other DMs are still with us.:smallsmile:

[Piccamo]

If you need a replacement DM give me a shout.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

That's because we recruited here rather than the OOC forum. If we did it there and with a tough deadline we would have half a dozen builds for each class by the time christmas came rolling around. Which is why I'm glad that recruiting was completed here.

Remember we are conducting a pseudo-scientific experiment without enough statistical data to compare the classes, so I think we chose the right forum. :smallwink:


If you need a replacement DM give me a shout.

Thank you, maybe I will :smallsmile:
I still have not asked the other potential DMs if they think they have enough experience for something like this or if they are even still interested.

[Rigeld2]

Remember we are conducting a pseudo-scientific experiment without enough statistical data to compare the classes, so I think we chose the right forum. :smallwink:
Well... then... shoot. Nonstandard builds ahoy!

[Jade_Tarem]

Complete needs to be excluded from a second tournament, or at least looked at closely. Initate of the Sevenfold Veil with Duelward and Dimensional jump active auto-wins.


How are we going to fill the Coliseum :smalltongue:

Silvanos, so help me if I get the "thumbs down" from a beholder I'm crying hax.

[SpiderBrigade]

Complete needs to be excluded from a second tournament, or at least looked at closely. Initate of the Sevenfold Veil with Duelward and Dimensional jump active auto-wins.

Explain how this works? Auto-win seems a little strong, especially for a combo involving Duelward. Also, what is Dimensional Jump?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Silvanos, so help me if I get the "thumbs down" from a beholder I'm crying hax.

I knew you would :smalltongue:

[The White Knight]

So 10 hours if you're level 10.

Or 5, for our friendly neighborhood Paladins/Rangers :D

[Jade_Tarem]

Explain how this works? Auto-win seems a little strong, especially for a combo involving Duelward. Also, what is Dimensional Jump?

Actually, I was assuming that the build would have enough levels to have max levels in Initiate, so nevermind.

To answer your question. at max levels in intiate I can be absolutely, completely indestructable for about 3 minutes every day - starting with the other guy's sneak attack. Fights would go like this:

Rogue: "Haha! I sneak attack for XdX damage! Die wizard!"
Initiate: "Immediate action: blue shield over purple shield. No you don't."
Rogue "What the f-"
Initiate: "My turn. Disintegrate. Good game."

It's pretty much the same for every other class.
Duelward is there in order to immediate action counterspell the ONE spell that will get you through the Initiate's barriers - a spell that only the sorcerer would have a chance of casting anyway without the help of a wand. Dimensional Jump just lets you teleport as a move action instead of walking, 30ft.

[enderrocksonall]

Yes, I think I made a note of that somewhere :smallamused:

However, things will be running next week.
Wonder if the other DMs are still with us.:smallsmile:


I'm still here!!!!

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I'm still here!!!!

That was one! :smallwink:

[Sundog]

That was one! :smallwink:

Anyone else?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Anyone else?

Apart from Stickman, the following had volunteered:

Truffles
Quietus
Piccamo

I do not know if they are still up for it and if they have sufficient experience of the rules, but I will get some feedback when the time comes.


The Rogue should be on its way today at the latest. There were a few things that needed to be corrected.

[Katonta]

So how's that Rogue coming? Hope he's almost done.

[Quietus]

I'm still hanging around, ready for whatever I'm needed for. If I somehow miss this thread and don't reply to something directed straight to me within 24 hours of it being posted, shoot me a PM.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

The Rogue has been approved and we are ready to start!

Upcoming Battles:

Druid vs. Monk (Map Medieve)
Bard vs. Paladin (Map Dizlag)
Ranger vs. Wizard (Map Medieve)
Cleric vs. Fighter (Map Dizlag)
Sorcerer vs. Barbarian (Map SpiderBrigade)
Rogue vs. Druid

The first 5 battles have now started!!!

[Avenger337]

Can we have a link to the battles? (Sorry if it's already been given, but I didn't find it immediately)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

No link has been posted, because of the Fog of war conditions.
There would not be much point in hiding in the shadows if your opponent knows exactly where you are.

A Battle Report will be posted when the battle has finished and we will use play by post when feasible.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

The first battle has finished

The results can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2138369#post2138369)

[Aez]

Nice, I was waiting for the result. Can't wait for the batle report. No surrpise for the first result. Underpowered vs broken... hehe

[Talic]

Actually, I was assuming that the build would have enough levels to have max levels in Initiate, so nevermind.

To answer your question. at max levels in intiate I can be absolutely, completely indestructable for about 3 minutes every day - starting with the other guy's sneak attack. Fights would go like this:

Rogue: "Haha! I sneak attack for XdX damage! Die wizard!"
Initiate: "Immediate action: blue shield over purple shield. No you don't."
Rogue "What the f-"
Initiate: "My turn. Disintegrate. Good game."

It's pretty much the same for every other class.
Duelward is there in order to immediate action counterspell the ONE spell that will get you through the Initiate's barriers - a spell that only the sorcerer would have a chance of casting anyway without the help of a wand. Dimensional Jump just lets you teleport as a move action instead of walking, 30ft.

Immediate actions are only usable when not flatfooted. Further, if a class can actually pass the saves for running through the barriers, it could get sticky. I've seen critters with good saves do it, with painful results.