Need some help building a Hellblade. Please.

[Volfogg]

Hiya Folks,

Over the last little while I have been posting several builds in the hopes of getting help and advice. Originally I was seeking help with defenders and leaders. However, as it turns out I am neither, and was given the role of striker. I cooked up a great build (hyrid warlock|executioner) with the help of various forums and handbooks. Everything is working out well although I would like to create a backup character in case my toon gets dead. Which is why I am here ... again.

I was thinking of going with an infernal hexblade build. The only problem with this is that I am unsure of how to actually build the character properly. I have checked a ton of stuff and yet I still cannot seem to build something decent. I was hoping that some of the forum regulars could shed some light either on experience playing such a class or actual build/feat/etc ideas.

Any and all comments are welcome.

Just in case ... all books/magazines/etc are allowed.

Thanks
Volf

P.S. I will post a rough build as soon as I have access to the online builder.

[vasharanpaladin]

Charge support. Take it. All of it. It's the only avenue for damage optimization a hexblade has.

Also, Arcane Admixture is your level 11 feat. Your at-will needs to do something other than necrotic damage.

[Volfogg]

Charge support. Take it. All of it. It's the only avenue for damage optimization a hexblade has.

Also, Arcane Admixture is your level 11 feat. Your at-will needs to do something other than necrotic damage.
Very cool idea vasharanpaladin. I will have to create a new build which goes that route. At the moment I went with an arcane admixture (fire), Hellbringer combo using a Ashen Rod of the Churning Inferno +4. Below is the build please let me know what you think (I still need to choose 4 feats, definately need some help with that):

Tiefling, Warlock (Hexblade), Hellbringer:
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Hexblade (Infernal), level 20
Tiefling, Warlock (Hexblade), Hellbringer
Pact: Infernal Pact
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Fire
Theme: Infernal Prince

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 12, CON 22, DEX 12, INT 11, WIS 9, CHA 24

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 16, DEX 10, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 17


AC: 32 Fort: 33 Ref: 28 Will: 34
HP: 129 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 32

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +18, Bluff +26, Intimidate +22, Streetwise +22

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Athletics +10, Diplomacy +19, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +15, Heal +9, History +10, Insight +9, Nature +9, Perception +9, Religion +10, Stealth +12, Thievery +10

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Warlock Utility: Soul Feast
Warlock Attack: Soul Eater
Warlock Attack: Blazing Doom of the Void
Warlock Attack: Reflexive Hellstrike
Feat Utility: Diabolic Transformation
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Bolt
Warlock Utility 2: Wrathful Aspect
Warlock Utility 4: Lesser Planar Ally
Warlock Utility 6: Dark One's Own Luck
Warlock Attack 9: Summon Warlock's Ally
Warlock Utility 10: Spined Devil's Boon
Hellbringer Attack 11: Pillar of Power
Hellbringer Utility 12: Gates of Hell
Warlock Attack 15: Armor of Summer's Glory
Warlock Utility 16: Diabolic Escape
Warlock Attack 19: Memory of Blades
Hellbringer Attack 20: Unleash the Inferno

FEATS
Rod Expertise
Level 2: Diabolic Soul
Level 4: Imperious Majesty
Level 6: Implement Focus (Rod)
Level 8: Improved Defenses
Level 10: Hellfire Blood
Level 11: Arcane Admixture
Level 12: Superior Implement Training (Ashen rod)
Level 14: ?
Level 16: ?
Level 18: ?
Level 20: ?

ITEMS
Blade of Annihilation x1
Adventurer's Kit
Ashen rod of the Churning Inferno +4 x1
Amulet of Protection +4 x1
Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1
Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier) x1
Runic Chainmail +3 x1
Gloves of Eldritch Admixture (heroic tier) x1
Pierced Heart Tattoo (paragon tier) x1
====== End ======

Thanks again for the suggestions!

Edit: I was thinking that Academy Master might also be a decent choice a PP along with Turathia Highborn.

Volf

[vasharanpaladin]

Drop Strength, bump Int or Dex. I recommend grabbing Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blades) or, better yet, multiclass swordmage and use a dagger as your implement instead. This allows you to use Dual Implement Spellcaster using your pact weapon. If you can manage proficiency with both light and heavy blades as implements somehow, note that the keywords on your weapon powers allow you to benefit from both light and heavy blade support if you're using a light blade as the implement to feed your pact weapon.

Unfortunately, Hellblades don't qualify for Surprising Charge very easily (Feyblades and Gloomblades get that, and the latter doesn't care), so your MC is open.

Hexblades rely on at-wills more than anything else, so yes, Academy Master's a great choice for them (except Starblades, who prefer Student of Caiphon over everything else). Hellbringer is better if you have equal Con and Cha, so use what you prefer here. With your current stats I'd recommend Academy Master, but then I prefer having as much accuracy with all my attacks as I can get. :smalltongue:

[Volfogg]

Drop Strength, bump Int or Dex. I recommend grabbing Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blades) or, better yet, multiclass swordmage and use a dagger as your implement instead. This allows you to use Dual Implement Spellcaster using your pact weapon. If you can manage proficiency with both light and heavy blades as implements somehow, note that the keywords on your weapon powers allow you to benefit from both light and heavy blade support if you're using a light blade as the implement to feed your pact weapon.

Unfortunately, Hellblades don't qualify for Surprising Charge very easily (Feyblades and Gloomblades get that, and the latter doesn't care), so your MC is open.

Hexblades rely on at-wills more than anything else, so yes, Academy Master's a great choice for them (except Starblades, who prefer Student of Caiphon over everything else). Hellbringer is better if you have equal Con and Cha, so use what you prefer here. With your current stats I'd recommend Academy Master, but then I prefer having as much accuracy with all my attacks as I can get. :smalltongue:
Some great insight vasharanpaladin. I will be updating the build, with the help of some of your advice, and will post it here when done. In the meantime I also wanted to see if the following combo would be decent:


MC wizard feat + hellfire master + consume the weak


I would think this combo could be a decent damage boost for such a character. The other combo I was thinking about would be:


white lotus riposte + white lotus master riposte


Again, this combo could lead to an increase in DPS although I am unsure of how much.

All the help so far is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Volf

[vasharanpaladin]

MC wizard feat + hellfire master + consume the weak




Not worth the slots, and unworkable if you grab MC swordmage as I suggested. And I'm kicking myself for not pointing this out before, but if you want a feat bonus to damage retrain Implement Focus for Fiery Blood (or Hellfire Arcanist if you do MC wizard), they give the 1+tier bonus that most RWT feats give.




white lotus riposte + white lotus master riposte



This could work the way you want it to, again because hexblades focus on at-will spam more than anything else. The catch, though, is that you need some way to "encourage" your target to hit you back, and marking doesn't work anymore.

...Oh, and if you pick up a blade implement, don't forget to grab a dragonshard. Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depths or Siberys Shard of the Mage will work nicely. :smallamused:

[Sol]

Drop Strength, bump Int or Dex. I recommend grabbing Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blades) or, better yet, multiclass swordmage and use a dagger as your implement instead. This allows you to use Dual Implement Spellcaster using your pact weapon. If you can manage proficiency with both light and heavy blades as implements somehow, note that the keywords on your weapon powers allow you to benefit from both light and heavy blade support if you're using a light blade as the implement to feed your pact weapon.

Unfortunately, Hellblades don't qualify for Surprising Charge very easily (Feyblades and Gloomblades get that, and the latter doesn't care), so your MC is open.

Hexblades rely on at-wills more than anything else, so yes, Academy Master's a great choice for them (except Starblades, who prefer Student of Caiphon over everything else). Hellbringer is better if you have equal Con and Cha, so use what you prefer here. With your current stats I'd recommend Academy Master, but then I prefer having as much accuracy with all my attacks as I can get. :smalltongue:

So this is accurate, but I feel it's helpful to add that the statement in your first paragraph about using a light blade as an implement giving you access to both light and heavy blade support does satisfy the "charge with a light blade" requirement on surprising charge. It's the dex requirement that hellblades have trouble with. I'm sure you're aware of that, just pointing it out specifically because pact weapons are a rather weird, complicated bit of rules text that lead to it working that way.

Out of curiosity, why don't you feel gloomblades care?

[neonchameleon]

Out of curiosity, why don't you feel gloomblades care?

Gloomblades use flails. So they can't take advantage of Surprising Charge (Gloomblades are controllers as much as strikers for this and many other reasons).

[vasharanpaladin]

Out of curiosity, why don't you feel gloomblades care?

Gloomblades don't care about their damage output. If one does, he picks up a long knife for an implement (read: heavy blade) to satisfy the requirement for Headsman's Chop instead. The Gloomblade's purpose is to plant his victim face-first in the ground on an at-will basis thanks to Flail Expertise.

[Volfogg]

I finally had the chance to redo the build. Please take a look and let me know what you think. First, a couple of details:


Sorry vasharanpaladin; I forgot to mention my DM is not allowing the DIS trick with my hexblade.
DM is allowing me to take Wicked Blade due to my barbarian MC feat.
The build inflicts 1d12+38 points of damage per hit using Soul Eater.
Once per day I can activate Berserker's Fury and inflict an additional 2d8 point of damage with my MBA (read Soul Eater) for an entire encounter.
Used Secret of Belial to pick up Heart Strike Power, this allows me to activate a stance which deals my Charisma modifier in extra damage.
He's got a few decent self buffs which can increase his defenses when required.
He is using an Ironscar Ashen Rod with an attached Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth for a nice little damage boost.
I changed his PP to Academy Master ... its awesome!



Updated Build:====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Hexblade (Infernal), level 20
Tiefling, Warlock (Hexblade), Academy Master
Pact: Infernal Pact
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Fire
Theme: Infernal Prince

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 22, DEX 11, INT 11, WIS 9, CHA 24

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 16, DEX 10, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 17

AC: 32 Fort: 33 Ref: 27 Will: 34
HP: 129 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 32

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +20, Athletics +15, Bluff +26, Intimidate +22, Streetwise +22

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Diplomacy +19, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +15, Heal +9,
History +10, Insight +9, Nature +9, Perception +9, Religion +10, Stealth +11,
Thievery +9

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Warlock Utility: Soul Feast
Warlock Attack: Soul Eater
Warlock Attack: Blazing Doom of the Void
Warlock Attack: Reflexive Hellstrike
Feat Utility: Diabolic Transformation
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Bolt
Warlock Utility 2: Wrathful Aspect
Warlock Utility 4: Lesser Planar Ally
Warlock Utility 6: Dark One's Own Luck
Warlock Attack 9: Summon Warlock's Ally
Warlock Utility 10: Spined Devil's Boon
Barbarian Utility 10: Heart Strike
Academy Master Attack 11: Learned Boost
Warlock Attack 15: Armor of Summer's Glory
Warlock Utility 16: Diabolic Escape
Warlock Attack 19: Memory of Blades
Academy Master Attack 20: Master's Surge

FEATS
Level 1: Rod Expertise
Level 2: Diabolic Soul
Level 4: Imperious Majesty
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Rod) - Retrained to Fiery Blood @ lvl11
Level 8: Superior Implement Training (Ashen rod)
Level 10: Hellfire Blood
Level 11: Arcane Admixture
Level 11: Fiery Blood
Level 12: Improved Defenses
Level 14: Secrets of Belial
Level 16: Battle Berserker
Level 18: Prisoner's Resolve
Level 20: Wicked Blade

ITEMS
Blade of Annihilation x1
Adventurer's Kit
Amulet of Protection +4 x1
Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1
Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier) x1
Runic Chainmail +3 x1
Gloves of Eldritch Admixture (heroic tier) x1
Pierced Heart Tattoo (paragon tier) x1
Ironscar Ashen rod +4 w/Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (paragon tier)
====== End ======

There we go. I believe this is pretty decent when it comes to filling the striker role. I know he is not the most uber of damage dealers but he should be adequate enough. The one thing that I would really like help with is choosing a power that can best be used with the Academy Master's Master's Surge power. I just can't seem to find something that really benefits from using it.

Almost forgot, is there any way of replacing Lesser Planar Ally with something else?

Thanks again for all the help so far.

Volf

[Sol]

Gloomblades don't care about their damage output. If one does, he picks up a long knife for an implement (read: heavy blade) to satisfy the requirement for Headsman's Chop instead. The Gloomblade's purpose is to plant his victim face-first in the ground on an at-will basis thanks to Flail Expertise.

Eh, damage is pretty important for them still, as single target weak controllers. I think of them kind of like Hunters.

Headsman's chop always feels like a trap to me when you're the one doing the proning, unless you have lots of multi or non-standard action attacks. Hexblades usually don't. If you put any sort of emphasis on charging, Surprising Charge will come up more often than Headsman's Chop, unless you have an ally also knocking things over (or dazing/stunning them so they don't stand up). Even assuming they come up an equal number of times, +1d10 averages higher than +5.

Gloomblades seem to make the best chargers, to me, since they can, with slide and reach, charge, AP, charge the same target, leaving it prone one square away with bad choices on its own turn.

More on topic, Volfogg, of course your DM is "allowing you to take Wicked Blade as a result of your Barbarian MC;" that's how MCing works. It's a very low-impact feat, though. If you crit 5% of the time, a bonus 2d12 on a crit is worth an average of 0.65 damage per attack.

Not "allowing" you to make use of DIS on a hexblade is a very silly houserule with no grounding in the actual rules of the game. There is an official FAQ where WotC specifically says it works. Hexblades have some pretty weird rule loopholes, and DIS is nowhere near the most powerful result (Surprising Charge is, for dexblades), and merely helps keep you functionally a striker despite no multiattacks.

While there's nothing "wrong" with using an ironscar rod, your dragonshard can be attached directly to your Blade of Annhilation, which opens up your rod enchant, if you'd like. Most Rod enchants are kind of bad (for hexblades doubly so since most of the warlock ones require you to have Warlock's Curse), though. Some okay options are Rod of First Blood, Rod of Harvest, Rod of the Bloodthorn, Rod of the Infernal, Torch of Misery.

Lesser Planar Ally can, by RAW and in the character builder, be merely retrained out of for any other warlock attack, at any future level. This is less intentional than DIS.

For Master's Surge, I'm a little stumped what you're asking for. AFAIK, your only encounter power is Blazing Doom of the Void. If your DM recursively allows you to use Soul Eater through Learned Boost through Master's surge, that's probably better, though Charging may still win out if you took the full charge package.

[Volfogg]

In light of everyone's advice and help (from the fine folks here as well as over on the CharOp boards) I have finally been able to put together a revised build. I also had a chance to speak with my DM regarding DIS. He is now officially green lighting it! :smallcool: Below is the updated build.

A few things that are still bothering me: 1) should I replace Prisoner's Resolve with Superior Will, 2) which power should I take when swapping out Summon Warlock's Ally, 3) should I take Eagle's Splendor instead of Heart Strike, and lastly, is my feat progression alright?

Important changes:

Attached my dragonshard to my Blade of Annihilation.
Replaced my rod with a Rod of the Bloodthorn (Ashen Rod) +4.
Damage is now 1d12+42 using Soul Eater.
Instead of taking AIP I chose Blade Initiate. Any slight boost to AC is always a good idea.
Was able to pick up DIS!


Updated Build:
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Hexblade (Infernal), level 20
Tiefling, Warlock (Hexblade), Academy Master
Pact: Infernal Pact
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Fire
Theme: Infernal Prince

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 22, DEX 11, INT 13, WIS 9, CHA 24

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 16, DEX 10, INT 11, WIS 8, CHA 17

AC: 32 Fort: 33 Ref: 27 Will: 34
HP: 129 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 32

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +20, Athletics +15, Bluff +26, Intimidate +22, Streetwise +22

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Diplomacy +19, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +15, Heal +9,
History +10, Insight +9, Nature +9, Perception +9, Religion +10, Stealth +11,
Thievery +9

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Warlock Utility: Soul Feast
Warlock Attack: Soul Eater
Warlock Attack: Blazing Doom of the Void
Warlock Attack: Reflexive Hellstrike
Feat Utility: Diabolic Transformation
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Bolt
Warlock Utility 2: Wrathful Aspect
Warlock Utility 4: Lesser Planar Ally
Warlock Utility 6: Dark One's Own Luck
Warlock Attack 9: Summon Warlock's Ally
Warlock Utility 10: Spined Devil's Boon
Barbarian Utility 10: Heart Strike
Academy Master Attack 11: Learned Boost
Warlock Attack 15: Armor of Summer's Glory
Warlock Utility 16: Diabolic Escape
Warlock Attack 19: Memory of Blades
Academy Master Attack 20: Master's Surge

FEATS
Level 1: Rod Expertise
Level 2: Diabolic Soul
Level 4: Imperious Majesty
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Rod) - Retrained to Fiery Blood at lvl11
Level 8: Superior Implement Training (Ashen rod)
Level 10: Hellfire Blood
Level 11: Arcane Admixture
Level 11: Fiery Blood
Level 12: Blade Initiate
Level 14: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 16: Secrets of Belial
Level 18: Improved Defenses
Level 20: Prisoner's Resolve

ITEMS
Blade of Annihilation x1 w/Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (paragon tier), Amulet of Protection +4 x1, Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1, Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier) x1, Runic Chainmail +3 x1, Gloves of Eldritch Admixture (heroic tier) x1, Pierced Heart Tattoo (paragon tier) x1, Rod of the Bloodthorn Ashen Rod +4

Please let me know if there is any way of making this better. Also, Sol, thanks for the suggestions! I am going with a Bloodthorn Ashen Rod.

All the help so far is awesome!

Thanks
Volf