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View Full Version : Swashbuckler/Duskblade/Abjurant Champion - What Feats and What Spells?



Yipyioh
2013-06-25, 10:23 PM
Okay so I've got a character that I've been developing over the course of a 4-year long campaign. This guy was the first character I EVER made and I made him on a whim after watching Pirates of the Caribbean and the 1940's Three Musketeers movie. The result, 4 years and 9 levels later, is that I have a generically set up swashbuckler made with terrible consideration of feats and skill distribution as I had no clue how the game really worked to begin with...

The purpose of this character is to have a mobile skirmisher of sorts that can dish out a high DPS as it were through martial and arcane means (perhaps blended now...), while managing to hold his own against larger foes thanks to Swashbuckler HP and general hard-to-hit capabilities

What I'm looking at now that my DM has given me amnesty and the chance to reshuffle the character to keep up with the 9th level Wizard, Ninja, and Ork-King-Werebear-Fighter. If you'd like to help me with this, you should know the DM is very much seat-of-the-pants and very loose on what the players have and do (Thus I have Elven Scale Mail with no max dex and a Side Sword with a Flesh to Stone 3/day enchantment and the ability to transform into anything of approximately equal size and weight) so there's not a need to be TOO tough on the RaW. Additionally this means disregard any sort of XP costs and multilevelling penalties, he just says "Level up" when he thinks the party has done enough and it works.

So to the character... Currently I'm sitting at 9th level which up until now consisted of 7 Swashbuckler, 1 Beguiler, and 1 that was undecided but I used Scout as a placeholder. After some digging around in the various dusty tomes of 3.5, I have decided with my DM's approval to re-shuffle the last 2 levels as well as all my feats to make the character make sense. My current goal by 16th level is to be 7 Swashbuckler, 1 Sorcerer, 5 Abjurant Champion, and 3 Duskblade.

From what I see the Swashbuckler gives me a very good Dex-based martial base and makes me rather good at what I do, primarily as a skirmisher and light tank. The 1 level of Sorcerer opens up Abjurant Champion for me, which I will take to be able to cast Dispel spells and Mage Armor (with DM's approval that it makes more sense than the RaW) quickly and efficiently, but also the 5th level ability that allows me to use my BAB as my caster level... Which will turn it from 6 into 15 by the end of this progression. Damned sight useful for the next application, which is the Duskblade levels, which will allow me to channel any touch spell I know (i.e. Combust or Vampiric Touch from the levels of Sorcerer/Abjur Champ) freely through melee attacks at a Caster Level of 15, thus highly increasing my potency in my chosen position.

What I'd like to hear from you guys is your opinions on what feats I should use as I'm reshuffling ALL of them (currently my feats are Run, Quick Draw, Leadership, Spring Attack, and Combat Casting, not exactly a stellar combo) and what spells would you recommend as I build up to this 16th level and what I should take beyond, as I will most likely continue taking Sorcerer levels later as the game progresses. As I understand Dispel Magic currently holds the crown of usefulness in Abjuration, but are there any other Abjuration spells from ANY of the 3.5 books that are worth considering? Along those lines the only other spells I'll likely want aside from defensive (errr anti-offensive?) Abjuration is some blasty spells because my real purpose is as a frontliner with a massive dex (+6 modifier currently) that, thanks to Weapon Finesse, gives me an equally high attack with ranged and melee. I have an idea of spells, as noted, but I'd like to hear some suggestions as I've never really been a magic-oriented player.

Kuulvheysoon
2013-06-25, 10:36 PM
A prestige class that I like for mobile gish-types is Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327). Since you have Spring Attack, you'll already have Dodge/Mobility (though I would definitely recommend trading Dodge out for something like Expeditious Dodge), so you'll already meet all of the prerequisites, and get a Bonus Feat out of the deal. It'll advance your sorcerer casting twice over three levels, and you'll get a 30% miss chance whenever you've cast haste upon yourself.

Yipyioh
2013-06-25, 11:00 PM
Hmm, interesting. I'll consider this for afterwards but not before I reach the end of the 16th-level path I have. I mostly mean for now to augment combat prowess while NOT sacrificing my swiftness, later on I'll look into extreme mobility like that. After all, this character's spirit still lays in the old 1st-5th level adventures of swinging from chandeliers, swinging from tapestries, and setting things on fire after I'd tumbled under them. I still do all those things now and would love to do them more and better but I need to be able to DO something once I get there!

Kuulvheysoon
2013-06-25, 11:10 PM
Hmm, interesting. I'll consider this for afterwards but not before I reach the end of the 16th-level path I have. I mostly mean for now to augment combat prowess while NOT sacrificing my swiftness, later on I'll look into extreme mobility like that. After all, this character's spirit still lays in the old 1st-5th level adventures of swinging from chandeliers, swinging from tapestries, and setting things on fire after I'd tumbled under them. I still do all those things now and would love to do them more and better but I need to be able to DO something once I get there!

Of course - I meant for this to add on the end (or perhaps replace the Duskblade levels).

If you're looking for more Indiana Jones-type stuff, I'd really suggest a look into Complete Scoundrel. It's got a whole heap of stuff like that.

Tvtyrant
2013-06-25, 11:17 PM
So basically you want to keep acrobatic charge but be more effective at damage? The issue with the Duskblade is that you cannot charge and channel at the same time, so your damage is not augmented by the Duskblade's abilities. However you are a fast moving charger type, so if you have the feat Power Attack you can combine it with Leap Attack and possibly Battle Jump to do lots of extra damage (doubles PA damage, doubles damage overall.) If you use a Dragonsplint you can Power Attack on the same weapon you use insightful strike on, so strength and int damage pushed way up.

Kuulvheysoon
2013-06-25, 11:20 PM
So basically you want to keep acrobatic charge but be more effective at damage? The issue with the Duskblade is that you cannot charge and channel at the same time, so your damage is not augmented by the Duskblade's abilities. However you are a fast moving charger type, so if you have the feat Power Attack you can combine it with Leap Attack and possibly Battle Jump to do lots of extra damage (doubles PA damage, doubles damage overall.) If you use a Dragonsplint you can Power Attack on the same weapon you use insightful strike on, so strength and int damage pushed way up.


So to the character... Currently I'm sitting at 9th level which up until now consisted of 7 Swashbuckler, 1 Beguiler, and 1 that was undecided but I used Scout as a placeholder. After some digging around in the various dusty tomes of 3.5, I have decided with my DM's approval to re-shuffle the last 2 levels as well as all my feats to make the character make sense. My current goal by 16th level is to be 7 Swashbuckler, 1 Sorcerer, 5 Abjurant Champion, and 3 Duskblade.

He's stuck with the 7 levels in Swashbuckler.

Tvtyrant
2013-06-25, 11:27 PM
He's stuck with the 7 levels in Swashbuckler.
I didn't say anything about that? I specifically was tailoring my answer to the Swashbuckler and pointing out that Duskblade doesn't help it much.

Kuulvheysoon
2013-06-25, 11:36 PM
I didn't say anything about that? I specifically was tailoring my answer to the Swashbuckler and pointing out that Duskblade doesn't help it much.

My bad - I was assuming that Swashbucklers got Acrobatic Charge at 6th level. Ignore my previous comment.:smallredface:

Metahuman1
2013-06-25, 11:45 PM
Honestly, none of you spell caster levels are doing that much for you in this build as it stands. If you wanna use Swashbuckler and Duskblade, I'd use Duskblade 13/ swashbuckler 3 and finish off with 4 levels of Binder form tome of magic with some feats to give you access to higher level vestiges so that you can bind both Paimon and What ever that 5th lvl vestige is that gives you a pair of horns, pounce and a Str boost. Maybe bind the sneak attack granting guy so that you can pick up craven as a feat.

Beyond that, either pick up shadow blade strike and a shadow hand stance and TWF line or a rapier depending on taste. Then use a planer touch stone to get turn undead on a very limited bases and grab travel devotion along with a few nightsticks, and lastly, grab a +30 Item of Bluff, perhaps a minor cursed Item of continuous Glibness to go with it, and the Combat Panache (Or however it's spelled.) feat form PHB II. Also, Implaments of Binding will help make sure you never fail to lock in your vestige.


Alternatively, maybe take Swashbuckler 3/ Crusaider 1/ Warblade 1/ Binder x/ Knight of the Sacred Seal 5/ Binder for the rest of your career? With the trick to make travel devotion work, the tricks for optimizing your bluffing and a Rapier this build would be fairly viable, give you the things you need and a couple of tricks that let you not be peg-in-a-holed into a one trick pony.

Tvtyrant
2013-06-25, 11:45 PM
My bad - I was assuming that Swashbucklers got Acrobatic Charge at 6th level. Ignore my previous comment.:smallredface:

No problem. Sorry if I came across as snippy.

For gishyness, I would suggest picking up a quick growth prestige class instead of base class plus prestige. Suel Arcanamach is good for late entry like this.

avr
2013-06-25, 11:47 PM
Martial Study (Sudden Leap) might be useful and appropriate if ToB is OK. It lets you make a running jump as a swift action 1/encounter.

Resist Energy is a worthwhile 2nd level abjuration spell, Protection from Evil has its uses as a 1st level abjuration.

GreenETC
2013-06-25, 11:59 PM
Honestly, I'd recommend not doing ANY caster classes now, and just going Sneak Attack Fighter 1/Rogue 1 to get 2d6 Sneak Attack and take Daring Outlaw at 9th level, giving you a total of 5d6 SA. This alone will be amazing for you, and is MUCH better than trying to be a 1st level caster at ECL 8.

To be even better, go for TWF and grab a level of Swordsage to get Island of Blades so you flank whenever you and an ally are adjacent to an enemy, and then grab Shadow Blade and start Dual-wielding Shortswords to add your Int and Dex to damage on top of Sneak Attack.

Yipyioh
2013-06-26, 12:33 AM
Wow, more comments than I expected coming back home!

Okay so first I'm not truly "locked into" swashbuckler at 7th level but I'm not doing an entire remake... I can probably go down to 6th level but Acrobatic charge does appeal a bit, now that I know of Leap Attack and such.

The purpose of this character isn't necessarily to be ALL about charging, but more about getting to where someone needs help and f***ing ****e up once I get there. Leap attack is great, but for enemies that can withstand that first hit I'd like to be able to follow up with a nice blast of channeled arcane fury. So I kinda like the idea of both, really.

It's worth noting that this character is lightly pyromaniacal. Go figure. Thus arcane fireworks really appeal to me (and him). So Combustion as part of a melee attack is what I really like the idea of being a signature move...

As far as other classes and sources go, I'm thinking ToB is out because the flavor doesn't fit my character OR the setting and this is a very flavorful campaign compared to other ones. Additionally, no psychics/psionics. We just don't use them for both flavor and balance purposes in our games

AstralFire
2013-06-26, 12:41 AM
So... you're a lightly armored, mobile pyro and you're passing up Desert Wind Swordsage?

Taking a few levels (or even 20) won't magically turn you into a ninja samurai, provided you are judicious with what you choose to do. I've played straight Desert Wind Swordsage with a smattering of other schools as a blaster gish before. Was a swashbuckler, in point of fact.

Yipyioh
2013-06-26, 12:44 AM
Additionally, the only feats I really want to keep are Leadership for the ability to have a crew and Run because it's been so useful since the DM is so loose with how it's used (I am recognized as an incredible sprinter so I tend to cover up to twice or 3x as much ground as my party does if I'm doing a bunch of running). Anything else can be reshuffled, matter of fact I'm looking for a good feat tree to help with the damage or the casting. Like I said Leap Attack is there but so is Whirlwind attack and a whole world of magic-buffing feats that I'm too swamped in to be able to sift through in detail -_-

A little about the Character though...

My statline is currently Str 15 Dex 20 Con 16 Int 16 Wis 12 Cha 16, although Str and Dex are currently both at 18 and 23 respectively thanks to a big belt and furry pants (Belt of Bull Strength and Greaves of Cat's Grace or something like that, the DM just said they're +3 to Str and Dex each)

Most of my skillpoints I don't care to screw around with but I may, for sake of completion I'll say they're mostly in acrobatic and "pirate-y" skills because for 6 levels I had absolutely no idea how hard min-maxing was going to hit me when we got out of the 'fun' stage, and therefore I'd been planning on going into Dread Pirate because the original idea was just to make a pirate. Due to both the low teir of Dread Pirate and the severe lack of large quantities of saltwater in the campaign, I threw that out entirely (I'd rather use Legendary Captain if it came down to it).

My loadout and current fighting style focuses on a "rapier" as everyone calls it but the DM effectively allows me to use a Longsword with weapon finesse... It's supposed to be a Side Sword or something similar to Raphael's Flambert if you're familiar with Soul Calibur, something with an edge and not just a stabbin' stick. In addition to that I have an offhand silver dagger which, with an optional ability (PHII I think?) gives me a shield bonus for using it. The Rapier is at this point +3 Masterwork/Magic, Cold Iron, has a Flesh to Stone enchantment on it, and can transform as noted above. I also have the equivalent of Scale Mail with no max dex, no movement penalties and only 10% spell failure chance. The DM also gave me "Blitz Boots" so I can teleport 25 feet 5 times/day. All this adds up to is for my character to be able to rapidly move (in conjunction with the Run feat that we kinda just guesstimate on by saying I sprint much faster than my compatriots) around the battlefield and have an alright dps but there's very little I have in the way of feats or abilities as you said allowing me to dish out damage when I get there, thus what I'm looking to do by augmenting my abilities in melee with Abjurant Champion and Duskblade.

KEEP IN MIND by 13th level my effective Caster Level WILL be 12 if I follow this path, thanks to the Abjurant Champion's 5th level capstone. Thus at the 16th level I projected for Duskblade, my channeling would be at CL 15. I'm satisfied enough with the fact that whatever I do in casting will be nearly as good as if another caster of my level had done it, I just need advice on what I should do since my spells would be so much more limited than any other wizard or sorcerer we find. It's just supposed to make me an effective combat caster that blends seamlessly with my martial prowess, what little I may have after so many levels of swashbuckler :/

Yipyioh
2013-06-26, 12:46 AM
So... you're a lightly armored, mobile pyro and you're passing up Desert Wind Swordsage?

Taking a few levels (or even 20) won't magically turn you into a ninja samurai, provided you are judicious with what you choose to do. I've played straight Desert Wind Swordsage with a smattering of other schools as a blaster gish before. Was a swashbuckler, in point of fact.

Unfortunately the only two books we started out saying were right out when we looked at all of them for this campaign were Tome of Battle and the Psionics one :/

AstralFire
2013-06-26, 12:52 AM
Well, my number one "I want to be a mobile pyro with weapons and not suck but not spend aeons optimizing and dealing with dead levels" is Swordsage, my number two is Bard and my number three is Wilder. Two of those are right out, and a Bard dip won't really help all that much.

Have you considered asking your DM for a homebrewed combo feat for Duskblade/Swash? The usual partial progression on both classes stack with each other, and then something like, "and once per combat, you may use channeled spell attack as part of your Spring Attack or charge" or something, upgraded to "as often as you like" at the same time the Duskblade gains the option to channel as part of a full attack.

Red Rubber Band
2013-06-26, 12:57 AM
As far as psionics goes balance shouldn't be the issue. Flavour I can understand, but psionics isn't overpowered (remember, you have a wizard in your party).

You mentioned taking extra sorceror levels after your 3 of duskblade. Have you considered continuing duskblade til your reach 13th level?

Also, for mobility, there is this thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7632.0) on the minmaxboards forum.
In relation to that thread, I'd also ask to not throw out ToB so quickly (if possible). I'm not an expert on the book by any means, but I believe the maneuvers and stances from the shadow and sun school's can help with mobility and still provide damage options.

Yipyioh
2013-06-26, 01:14 AM
Have you considered asking your DM for a homebrewed combo feat for Duskblade/Swash? The usual partial progression on both classes stack with each other, and then something like, "and once per combat, you may use channeled spell attack as part of your Spring Attack or charge" or something, upgraded to "as often as you like" at the same time the Duskblade gains the option to channel as part of a full attack.

This might just work... I'm contemplating asking my DM to let me drop down to 5th level for Swashbuckler and go from there with the rebuild, so at 9th level I'd be 3 levels into Abjurant Champ, then I'd be at the channeling by 12th level just in time to get a new feat. I'm thinking I propose I replace the standard channeling ability with one that is a blend of that and Acrobatic Charge from Swashbuckler... In that it allows me while wearing light armor to charge across difficult terrain AND allows me to channel on a charge, but aside from that channeling can only be done as part of a full attack action on only 1 attack of that. Additionally, I'd tempt him by saying I'd spend a feat to make this happen. Maybe then after that I do the same "channel into every attack of a full attack" thing like normal.

Yipyioh
2013-06-26, 01:20 AM
As far as psionics goes balance shouldn't be the issue. Flavour I can understand, but psionics isn't overpowered (remember, you have a wizard in your party).

You mentioned taking extra sorceror levels after your 3 of duskblade. Have you considered continuing duskblade til your reach 13th level?

Also, for mobility, there is this thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7632.0) on the minmaxboards forum.
In relation to that thread, I'd also ask to not throw out ToB so quickly (if possible). I'm not an expert on the book by any means, but I believe the maneuvers and stances from the shadow and sun school's can help with mobility and still provide damage options.

I am considering following Duskblade, except for the fact that I'd now cast any spells in Sorcerer at my BAB for Caster Level and I'd love to get some more spells under my belt. It's kind of an abstract area of thought right now though so...

As far as ToB goes it's not me, it's mostly because it clashes a bit with the setting. To my friends and I most of it screams oriental styling that isn't present (mostly) in this setting, and flavor-wise and for the fact that it brings a whole new system that would most likely have to be brought in for NPC's and such also just added another layer of complexity that the DM didn't want. Trust me I'd love to go Swordsage but it wouldn't fly unfortunately.

AstralFire
2013-06-26, 01:30 AM
I don't want to go too far down this road (because it's off-topic and I also don't encourage arguing with DMs to gain book access) but I really feel it's incredibly tragic, how many campaigns ToB's been shut out of because a minority (three) of its nine schools use Wuxia-inspired naming for their abilities, and one of which is Unarmed Focused. It's the same kind of thinking that said a Ninja needed to be different from a Rogue or a Ranger.

Emperor Tippy
2013-06-26, 02:10 AM
Are you allowed to reshuffle your class levels?

Because Decisive Strike Martial Monk 6/ Factotum 8/ Swasbuckler 3/ Assassin 1/ Exemplar or Mindbender 1/ Swordsage 1 does what you want amazingly well.

Feats:
Spring Attack, Dual Strike, and Storm of Throws or Infinite Deflection from Martial Monk.

Shadow Blade to pick up +Dex to damage when wielding daggers or short swords.

Kung Fu Genius to run Monk off of Int.

Mindsight if you take Mindbender.

Craven for +HD to damage on every sneak attack.

All other feats on Font of Inspiration.

Basic idea is that you use Cunning Surge to get to your opponent (you have a 50 ft. base movement speed) before using your Full Round action for a Decisive Strike and then spending your IP on Cunning Surge to stack up lots of attacks. With Dual Strike you get two attacks per standard action, each one dealing +Int, +Dex, and +Str on every attack (and can get an additional +Int, +HD, and +IL using your class features) which is then doubled thanks to Decisive Strike.

That is how you get insanely high DPS.

And if there are lots of enemies within range of you then you use Storm of Throws for an attack against each of them. Sure you loose the +Dex from Shadowblade but all the rest still works (although no decisive strike).

Since ToB is banned in your games, drop Swordsage for Mindbender.

So Monk 6/ Factotum 8/ Swashbuckler 3/ Assassin 1/ Exemplar 1/ Mindbender 1.

You end up somewhat worse off in spells than a Duskblade (and are 3/4's AB instead of full) but you end up far better off at what you indicated that you wanted in the OP (high DPS, fast, skirmisher). You also get Int to AC while still being able to spend an IP on Mage Armor every day and/or using Bracers of Armor. This does a really good job at modeling the Jack Sparrow type character.

Gwendol
2013-06-26, 02:46 AM
Have you picked up the Arcane stunt ACF (Complete Mage)? It's significantly better to have SLA's than Grace.
Also, Swiftblade. You want this class, it will fit like a glove.

Feint's End
2013-06-26, 03:22 AM
(I am recognized as an incredible sprinter so I tend to cover up to twice or 3x as much ground as my party does if I'm doing a bunch of running)

Take every speedboost you can get and have fun running over water :smallamused:

On a more serious note ... there are actually a lot of ways to achieve what you want and it comes down to your playstyle ... do you want to be arcane? psionics? martial adept? they all work pretty good if you know how to build them. It comes more to what system you prefer and which classes you like most.

And somebody said Sudden Leap lets you jump as if you had a running start. That's not true. It just lets you jump as a swift action ... you still have to spend 20ft movement before to get a running start (using a move action).

Nightraiderx
2013-06-26, 08:06 AM
why not both arcane casting/Tob fire shenanigans?
dip sorc and swordsage desert wind and have fun being a jade pheonix mage,
unless you aren't evil? for some reason.
I forget if Jade pheonix requires you to be good-aligned or non-evil aligned.

AstralFire
2013-06-26, 09:10 AM
Jade Phoenix Mage is good-aligned, or at the least non-evil.

Supernoobian
2013-06-26, 07:07 PM
As a fellow member of this campaign, I'd just like to remind you far-better-than-me-optimizers out there of a couple things the OP mentioned

Psionics and ToB are both out. Sadly, some of the members in our group refuse to believe that Psionics are weaker than traditional casters (probably because the Wizard (me) is telling them this ;D).
This is not the poster's choice. The DM of this campaign decided that he didn't want these books involved, and as such, we're kinda stuck with it.

The OP wants to keep as much of the swashbuckler as is possible, and is really only looking to AUGMENT his given melee abilities with the magical bonuses from the other classes. Since we already have a full duskblade (blasty) and a full wizard (mostly utility) in the party, the desire/need for serious additional arcane magic is pretty low.

Looking through the suggestions with him so far... How well does Suel Arcanamach synergize with other options he could take? It seems like a solid prestige (since a few of the requirements can essentially be ignored given the setting).

Edit: Would it be viable to take the twilight enchantment, take 4 levels in Suel Arcanamach, then prestige elsewhere? Just for the bumps it gives?

Yipyioh
2013-06-29, 01:37 PM
Alright, thank all of you for your opinions, it has been very helpful!

The news on this is with enough poking and prodding from multiple players the DM is letting the Tome of Battle be opened, while on the offhand we ARE taking multiclass penalties. Good thing I'm human!

So now I'm dropping back to a "Starting" Level 5 Swashbuckler. Assuming my equipment and Attributes are the same, I get to rebuild up to level 9 and start with that character before continuing forth. I was thinking 3 levels of Desert Wind Swordsage to get that "Melee Magic" blend that I was trying to work so hard to squeeze out of Duskblade, and then 2 levels of wizard and from there alternate levels of Swordsage, Wizard, and Abjurant Champion.

I chose wizard because after enough thought with Swordsage I really won't need so much blasting, and therefore I could focus on having more abjuration and other kinds of spells... The kind that our other Wizard, Supernoobian, already has. With how much downtime we *technically* have (we don't often have anything to do during said downtime except mundane stuff) and gold (after just killing the mind-controlling God Emperor of Mankind and stopping an Orc WAAAAGH!!!!!) we could probably share our entire spellbooks within a session or two.

The two feats I'd like to keep then after all this are Run and Leadership, and with this character I'm not looking much at Sneak Attack damage since I won't have the 7 levels of Swashbuckler and dipping into Rogue means I'll be unbalanced for the sake of multiclassing, and that WILL hurt me.

So now, what are your opinions with this new info?

GreenETC
2013-06-29, 02:28 PM
With your decent Int and choosing Wizard, I'd recommend being Chaotic Good and doing something to progress it at least enough to get 4th level spells, so you can get Greater Luminous Armor, which will gives you an AC bonus of 13 from Abjurant Champion and will last more than all day.

Also, if you wanna play up the trickster part, you should be a Conjuration Specialist for the Abrupt Jaunt ACF from PHB2. It'll let you hop around your opponents when they try to attack you, or escape grapples, or all sorts of useful things. If I were going to rebuild it, I'd recommend going:
Swashbuckler 3/Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Conjurer 2/Abjurant Champion 3

With this build, you have Pounce for Full-Attacks on a charge, +8 BaB @ level 9, Abjurant Champion goodies, Int to damage, 3rd level spells, and a one per day Rage, which I'd recommend Ferocity from Cityscape. This looks like the best bet to me, and you can find a full BaB casting PrC later, like Eldritch Knight if you want more spells, or Swiftblade for more cool abilities.

Nightraiderx
2013-07-01, 07:56 AM
Alright, thank all of you for your opinions, it has been very helpful!

The news on this is with enough poking and prodding from multiple players the DM is letting the Tome of Battle be opened, while on the offhand we ARE taking multiclass penalties. Good thing I'm human!

So now I'm dropping back to a "Starting" Level 5 Swashbuckler. Assuming my equipment and Attributes are the same, I get to rebuild up to level 9 and start with that character before continuing forth. I was thinking 3 levels of Desert Wind Swordsage to get that "Melee Magic" blend that I was trying to work so hard to squeeze out of Duskblade, and then 2 levels of wizard and from there alternate levels of Swordsage, Wizard, and Abjurant Champion.

I chose wizard because after enough thought with Swordsage I really won't need so much blasting, and therefore I could focus on having more abjuration and other kinds of spells... The kind that our other Wizard, Supernoobian, already has. With how much downtime we *technically* have (we don't often have anything to do during said downtime except mundane stuff) and gold (after just killing the mind-controlling God Emperor of Mankind and stopping an Orc WAAAAGH!!!!!) we could probably share our entire spellbooks within a session or two.

The two feats I'd like to keep then after all this are Run and Leadership, and with this character I'm not looking much at Sneak Attack damage since I won't have the 7 levels of Swashbuckler and dipping into Rogue means I'll be unbalanced for the sake of multiclassing, and that WILL hurt me.

So now, what are your opinions with this new info?

Use swordsage to get the assassin stance viola! you now have the SA thing to get the feat and to grab +3d6 SA with your swashbuckler levels.

let's see since you dialed down swashbuckler stuff.

5 swashbuckler/1swordsage/1 wizard/1 swordsage/5 abjurrant champ/7 Jade Phoenix Mage

with your 1 swordsage you can grab a lot of nice 2nd lvl desert wind abilities and some shadow hand stuff. you space out your second swordsage level to get assassin's stance (which will net you perquisites for your swashbuckler levels to get +3d6 SA. Conjurer wizard is fine, trade your familiar in for a martial feat (there's an alt somewhere that allows you to do this). 6th level grab combat casting setting you up for abjurrant champ at lvl 9. Lvl 9 is when you can get your int to AC as well, Jade phoenix mage requires you to be non-evil. so you can get jade pheonix and get yourself the stance that raises your fire damage and you can 1/encounter empower/quicken.

You must MUST grab the Desert wind manuever so you can use the invisible boost and hit a good 3/4 people while applyig +5d6+lvl+int (using craven) damage to your attacks and then hitting them with a quickened fire blast spell or a buff spell with no added cost.

As far as feats, two weapon fighting is your friend, the more attacks the more you can go running around hitting all the enemies in an area for good damage. And also craven after you grab assassin's stance and daring outlaw.

spells like shield will be your nice friend (since they will be auto quickened and extended). since your CL for wizard spells will be lower, grab the last of abjurrant champ so that your bab can replace that. (you only loose 2 points of bab) so it's basically 18 CL vs I believe 11 CL so you will have at least 5/6 th level spells make sure your spells scale with level, do not bother with things that don't scale well or aren't part of your abjuration awesomeness.