[3.P] So my DM is a **** and I want to make a character to respond in kind

[silverkyo]

Alright, now that I have your attention, let me provide a bit of backstory here. I made an account here specifically just so I could share this.

So, a little less then six months ago my DM ends his pathfinder campaign because he worked himself into a corner and wanted to try a new system. To keep that story short, he was trying to railroad the story and our characters broke that story over our knee and he didn't know what to do so he wiped the slate clean.

So after that we made characters in the Song of Ice and Fire RPG ruleset. Me being a huge fan of Game of Thrones, I was actually pretty excited to try this because his campaign was starting to get rather dull and I was losing interest in my character (who has a 5 page backstory). But now I can make a new rogue-type character and have it actually be effective. There are rules for how to handle social encounters well and I am just all sorts of pumped.

Since then we have been playing that game and I had been having a lot of fun with it. The ruleset is different enough to be enjoyable and it felt like we were actually in a song of ice and fire. We got to build a house, I made another huge backstory and had a strong character concept to go with which I was proud of because that's an aspect of tabletop gaming that I have honestly struggled with (I tap on the fourth wall a bit too much).

Our last session in that game was last thursday, but I told him I was going to have to miss it because I was going with the family on vacation, which he was fine with and I was told wouldn't impact the session too bad. So I leave and I go dark without real internet connection for the next 5 days assuming that all would be well.

Come to find out when I come back that they had my character accused of murder and executed. It was apparently some big background plot he was running of a third party trying to pit houses against each other but we weren't making his rolls to properly discover evidence and found out about this plot. Our family was accused of poisoning and murdering a rival houses heir at a tourney with Braavosi poison, and guess who happens to have written a backstory where his character visited Braavos for a while and competed in a joust of honor with said heir at the tourney? Yea, so everyone collectively threw my character under the bus (Me being the only one who was really invested a character or had a real backstory) which I guess my character pleaded guilty to an just accepted his fate because I wasn't there to actually play him. Oh, did I mention my character was a staunch passivist and hated killing and didn't want to compete in the tournament to begin with?

But I'm told it's okay, because the DM ran out of ideas for that campaign and surprise! He cut it and wants to go back to his old Pathfinder campaign that I was getting bored of because he ran out of ideas and wrote himself into a corner in the Song of Ice and Fire RPG! Anyone else noticing a trend here? If he had just cut the game in favor of the old one I would have been fine with it, but the fact that he had my character killed for something so entirely against his backstory without me being there to apparently be the only one to offer protest has frankly pissed me the **** off. I felt like he robbed me of my own character, like his will and what I do with him is no longer my choice. He has his own character in another campaign out friend runs that he likes to play all mysterious and won't tell us **** about him that I thought about killing just out of spite, and I would do it too if not for the fact that it would undermine my friends campaign and I don't want to do that to him (even though he never spoke up to defend my character, still a little mad about that) and the fact that it goes against that character's personality, and I'd rather not sacrifice two characters I care about for this.

So now I'm out for blood. I don't really care as much about my old character (he railroaded us too much for me to stay invested, seems to be a trend), so I'm totally okay to start fresh. But I don't just want to start over with a normal character. No, I want to break his campaign. Last time we broke his story by accident (probably because he railroads so much that once we do one thing he doesn't expect us to do he can't comprehend how to respond), but now I'm out to do it on purpose. And not just his story, I want to break the whole setting, from smallest to largest possible detail.

I don't want to beat his encounters, I want to nullify them and make all his work for naught.

I want to take crucial NPCs and erase them from existence.

I want to be able to waltz in to places he would never expect us to be just to **** with things.

I'm going to hunt down the big bad guy and the big good guy and kill them both just so that way he has no way to rebuild the story.

If I could I would wipe the whole continent off the map.

But, my restrictions are that the characters are only level 7 and I am in a low magic setting, so I probably won't start with full gold on a new character. So, I need some help with what I should make here. A cleric that just stands there and debuffs and denies encounters to the point of making them trivial. A wizard who just sends things to another plane just because **** you he can. A rogue assassin who bluffs his way through the gates, invisibly walks up to the king, and then studies him for 3 rounds. I can't really decide what would be best to break the whole world, what do you guys think?

For the mean time, I think I'm going to play an old human wizard with alzheimer's and dementia just so I can be an annoying ****, but make no mistake I'm ready to take this for the long con. I don't care if it takes me weeks or months to break this campaign, but he was an ******* and shows no remorse for my characters. So if he wants to declare war, I'm ready to declare war. I'm going to take down a God and fight the DM at his own game.

TL;DR I worship a new god, his name is "**** your Encounter". Who wants to help me make a character to do it best?

[eggynack]

This really seems like the kinda problem that is better solved out of game. Y'know, because the issue is really outside the game. Anyways, if you really want to break a game easily, just play a druid. It's clean cut and to the point. More importantly, they're practically impossible to nerf within the rules. They do perfectly fine in just about every game in existence, whether you're at low level or high level, whether your game has tons of items or no items, whether your game take place on a pirating vessel or in a dark cave. Druids have answers to everything, all the time, forever. If your goal is game breaking, you should go with greenbound summoning, or maybe planar shepherd at some point. I tend to avoid those though, because they just seem unfair to me. I prefer a build that uses a human, and takes spell focus (conjuration), augment summoning, ashbound summoning, natural spell, and when you hit 8th, rashemi elemental summoning. I like rashemi elemental summoning more than greenbound, just in general.

For not build stuff, I tend towards making the druid into a mobile defense platform. Wild shape into a desmodu hunting bat, and use some combination of (greater) luminous armor, heart of water, heart of air, primal instinct, and enhance wildshape. You end up being highly mobile, highly defensive, and with 120 foot blind sight for hours/level. Just summon giant crocodiles at things until they die, until level 9 when you start summoning orglashes and thomils at things until they die. Make your AC a fleshraker or brown bear, depending on preference. If you can, get a ton of cool items, and stick wilding clasps on them. Druids are sweet.

Edit: Note that this is all before you actually start prepping spells. You can do all of this stuff at any time, and pick your spells as you wish. Spontaneous summoning means never having to regret picking a situational spell in the morning.

Double edit: Wait, is this 3.P, or just pathfinder? This stuff is all rather 3.5 specific.

[Amidus Drexel]

...First things first: it's a bad idea to set out with the idea that you want to spend the whole game ruining the things your DM does. I'd strongly advise trying to fix the issues you have with the guy OOC, and not by wrecking his game.

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Personal opinion aside...

I'm not very familiar with Pathfinder, but in 3.5e you'd want to play as a wizard, and focus on spells that shut down enemies. Ones that either don't allow saves at all, or have negative effects even on failed saves.

Also, look to this (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Old_Man_Henderson)for inspiration.

[Spuddles]

Some things to break spellcasters with:

Two traits, magical lineage & wayang spell hunter, lower the spell level of a chosen spell by one when you apply a metamagic feat to it. Use with a +0 metamagic, like tenebrous spell, to get at will use of a 1st or 2nd level spell.

Pretty handy.

Dazing Spell metamagic, in conjunction with the aforementioned traits, can be brutal.

Blood Money, a first level spell, lets you ignore the material component cost of a spell you cast in that round.

There are some cross-blooded sorcerer builds floating around that have awesome damage output.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Personally, although what your DM did is outright dickish it's not a good idea to try to sabotage his campaign. You should be better than that be able to just walk out and quit a group you don't have fun with rather than invest months into simply ruining someone else's game.

I speak from personal experience here. I once had a DM who was outright horrid. He treated it as DM vs Players, his idea of fun was giving players penalties and taking their gear. His idea of challenge is just punishing and setting you up against impossible odds. He railroads completely and makes an unstated DM fiat NPC who could of solved the campaign in an instant but never did due to neutrality but had no issues with reversing everything we did because the DM needed a way to 'Keep control of the players'.

I spoke up during this and he refused to change. It got to the point he drove his campaign into the ground by doing this and quit because he was exhausted of dealing with 'disruptive players'. Shortly after this I DM'd a group with the same players, with this DM included. He blames me for his campaign dying and then does nothing except do everything possible to make my campaign miserable and end asap.

Basically, he acted like a child and killed everyone's fun by destroying a campaign that otherwise people could of been enjoyed. No one enjoys it, it just leaves anger, hard feelings and time wasted.

And such actions can have longer lasting effects too...
For example for what has recently happened to him due to this.

After my campaign was killed we got another player to DM a campaign. He was very good and the campaign ended well. Then the original DM mentioned above starts another group, he does all the bad things originally listed plus more such as DM fiat arm bands to prevent characters from fighting in anyway, 400gp room fee's so players don't get locked in a **** filled cramped room preventing them from doing any roleplaying for over an hour etc.

This caused 3/5 players to quit his group (me included) within 2 weeks (with the other 2 still very likely to quit) and all 5 of those players to start working on a new campaign. A new campaign he won't be allowed to join because he's proven in the past when a campaign of his falls apart, he doesn't learn from mistakes but rather blames others. He then aims to make their campaign as miserable as possible like some spoiled child, so since we cannot trust him not to do the same thing again he cannot play.

So him bothering to spend his time destroying a group has cost him being able to play in a campaign. And that's probably the same sort of prices you'll be paying if you choose to invest time in ruining others campaigns rather than being the better man and just leaving.

I'm not saying you're DM was right, he was dead wrong for what he did. But you will gain nothing from trying to sabotage his group.

[TheIronGolem]

[very good advice]

Listen to this guy.

Do not start some passive-aggressive grudge match with your DM. Act like a freaking grownup. That might mean finding a new group to play in.

[The Glyphstone]

Listen to this guy.

Do not start some passive-aggressive grudge match with your DM. Act like a freaking grownup. That might mean finding a new group to play in.

Ditto. There are many places you can go on the internet for advice on how to be immature and ruin other people's fun. This is not one of them. I recommend 4chan - the fa/tg/uys will be delighted to give you all sorts of awful ideas.

[Tvtyrant]

Ditto. There are many places you can go on the internet for advice on how to be immature and ruin other people's fun. This is not one of them. I recommend 4chan - the fa/tg/uys will be delighted to give you all sorts of awful ideas.

I'm a fat guy and I am a jovial and personable type of person... :smallfrown:

[ryu]

True but this isn't 4chan tropes. At least I hope not...

[angry_bear]

Get the full story about what happened in the GoT campaign... Not to sound rude, but it sounds like the DM actually took the time to read, and utilize your back story that some DM's never bother attempting. He shouldn't have executed your character while you were away; and the party probably shouldn't have thrown you under the bus like that. But it happened, talk to him, and explain to him why you're angry about what happened.

If you really want to screw with his new Pathfinder campaign though; I recommend a mailman sorcerer. I'm not very familiar with Pathfinder, but I'm pretty sure that a sorcerer can still do some scary levels of damage in the game. It's a low magic setting, so a sorcerer is easier to justify than a wizard or a cleric, and I'm not sure on the effectiveness of a druid in the game.

If a sorcerer isn't as good as it is in 3.5, how well do diplomancers work? Nothing screws over a campaign as good as a player capable of convincing the BBEG into giving up his wicked ways, and start to serve the forces of good from now on. 3.5 it's disgustingly easy to do with diplomacy, Pathfinder you might be able to do the same.

Still, I recommend you try talking to him first, and coming to a better understanding. A lot of the time, a dungeon master or player might not realize that they're being a jerk, and if you handle the situation properly, you can set things right.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Eh, it's not the most dickish move I've ever seen. I watched a friend get his character killed from a brain aneurism. He was kind of upset when he heard about it the next day.




But yeah, this seems like you really have more of an issue with the DM. Maybe suggest he try running an adventure Path or something of that sort. That way there should be less of a problem with him writing himself into a corner. If this is Pathfinder, then there are plenty of good ones to choose from.

List of decent to good APs for Pathfinder (in no particular order)
Rise of the Runelords
Skull and Shackles
Serpent's Skull
Legacy of Fire
Kingmaker Chapters 1-3
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Carrion Crown

[DustyBottoms]

As with what everyone else is saying, talk to your DM first - if he actually went through your backstory enough to use it in the campaign, he might even apologize and give you something in return for not going berserk over the situation.

[Feint's End]

Don't do it *period*. Let me get this straight ... you want to invest time, hours and hours of time (maybe over the course of weeks and months), to not only ruin somebody's else game but you will most likely be angry all the time? That is one of the biggest wastes of time I could ever imagine and it makes me sad that you honestly consider doing that.
Do something with your time! Dungeons and Dragons is meant to be a game! Have fun with games! If you don't have fun, don't play, but do something more fun with your time.
If you still want to play D&D (what I can totally understand) quit his campaign (talk to him once before though and be completely honest ... if he still doesn't listen you can at least say you really tryed). Start a campaign on your own and invite the players you actually enjoy playing with.

As hard as it sounds, if you are not having fun don't do it because fun is the reason we play this game we all love so much. We spend time on this forum discussing rules, doing TO and finding new combinations but in the end it comes down to fun.
Most experienced, long time players will tell you the same I just did here. Being angry and playing against your group and your Dm won't give you any satisfaction. It will ruin your day, it will ruin your dms day and most importantly you will ruin the day of the other players too.

To say it in other words.

If you do this you are not better than your Dm.

[Abaddona]

As others said - flat out destroying the game is bad option. But if you don't want to leave your group (maybe after few castings of Bigby's expressive single digits so your DM will know what you think about his plot-surprises) then you can simply make some high-op monstrosity immune to damage and play "normally" (well, if you want to be mean you can make him Chaotic Neutral and roleplay it in bad way as "nothing interests me"... as a bonus make him schizophrenic psycho and go full Old Man Henderson on him, but it's overkill) - if he can't respect your character concept, then ignore roleplaying and start rollplaying.

[Harlot]

Killing your character while you were in absentia was absolutely uncool. However, it would be even more uncool if you were to destroy his next game as puny revenge. That's unsympathetic and egocentric.

I don't know how old any of you are, but from what you write you all seem very young? Your behavior, at least, is very immature.

I strongly advice you to talk to the group - all of them at one time - and tell them that:
"I'm really ticked off with what happened. Initially I wanted revenge (as described, by destroying the next game), but now that I've had time to reconsider, I find that destructive and immature. The idea should be for all of us to have a good time, right? So I suggest that we all, together, lay down some basic houserules 'do's and don'ts - so that we may steer free of such conflict in the future. And as you can guess, my houserule suggestion is, that a character may not be killed, if the PC is not present. What do you think?"

Thus, you seem mature, they should feel ashamed, and hopefully the group can continue onwards.

In my curren't group, a basic houserule is that no character dies if the player is not present at the session. Ever.

[Hyler]

I made an account here specifically just so I could share this.
So you've waiting to tell us since October 2011?
Anyways, I recommend you listen to TheIronGolem. Your idea sounds like a huge waste of time in my opinion.

[Asgardian]

Yea, so everyone collectively threw my character under the bus (
Why are you blaming the DM when it sounds like the other players are the ones that took advantage of your absence and let you be the patsy?

[Studoku]

I know I'm echoing what everyone else is saying but don't do this. Not just because it's immature- because it won't work. You can't deal with OC problems with IC solutions. If you do build a broken invincible wizard of some kind, your DM will probably respond in one of two ways.

The first (and judging by what you've said about him the more likely) is to respond in kind. It'll probably begin with something straightforward like anti-magic fields and spell resistance. When you defeat that, it'll escalate into an arms race between you trying to break the game and your DM trying to stop you.

Here's the thing- the DM isn't bound by the same rules you are. He can invent anything he likes to render your character useless. He can ban things. He's willing to kill you between session- he's not going to think twice about stealing your spellbook so you can't cast anything.

The second is to realise that you're deliberately ruining the game and kick you out of the group.

If you have that much of a problem with your DM, actually try talking to him about this and explaining how annoyed you are about your character dying offscreen. I'd wait until you've calmed down about it before you do this though- if you get as angry as you did towards the end of your post you'll get nowhere.

If this doesn't work, don't play in this guy's game. Judging by your rant you're unlikely to enjoy it so find a new group or DM something yourself instead of trying to ruin things for everyone else.

[Karnith]

Generally speaking, escalating against the DM is a losing proposition not only because you are trying to solve a personal problem through a fantasy tabletop game, but also because the DM holds all the cards and will always beat you if he wants to. Try talking to your DM/group about the problem, and if that doesn't work, find another group to play with or stop playing.

Bad D&D is worse than no D&D.

I'm a fat guy and I am a jovial and personable type of person... :smallfrown:
Ah, so you're more of an elegan/tg/entleman then, eh?

Long story
Hey, it's good to hear that you got your terrible DM situation sorted out in a mature and satisfactory manner.

[Humble Master]

This is an out of game problem that needs an out of game solution. Talk with your DM. Respectfully explain your dislike with his actions and try and come to some sort of an agreement. But please don't wage a personal war on the DM. That is a bad idea that will only result in more strife.

[SethoMarkus]

Killing your character while you were in absentia was absolutely uncool. However, it would be even more uncool if you were to destroy his next game as puny revenge. That's unsympathetic and egocentric.

I don't know how old any of you are, but from what you write you all seem very young? Your behavior, at least, is very immature.

I strongly advice you to talk to the group - all of them at one time - and tell them that:
"I'm really ticked off with what happened. Initially I wanted revenge (as described, by destroying the next game), but now that I've had time to reconsider, I find that destructive and immature. The idea should be for all of us to have a good time, right? So I suggest that we all, together, lay down some basic houserules 'do's and don'ts - so that we may steer free of such conflict in the future. And as you can guess, my houserule suggestion is, that a character may not be killed, if the PC is not present. What do you think?"

Thus, you seem mature, they should feel ashamed, and hopefully the group can continue onwards.

In my curren't group, a basic houserule is that no character dies if the player is not present at the session. Ever.


This. Seriously, this. Either talk it out and set "do's and don'ts", or don't play with that DM/group again. Yeah, it sucks what happened to your characters, but it doesn't really sound like it was done in spite. Talk it out, or move on to other gaming groups.

[RFLS]

Ditto the general advice. Talk to the DM or walk away. Now that that's out of the way....obligatory link. (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Old_Man_Henderson)

[Zubrowka74]

Do it! Do it! Common, don't be a wuss and DO IT! Ruin his game, his campaing, his life!

...mmmh seriously, no. Just listen to what's been said already. If you can't resolve this OOC, just find another DM or group.

[killem2]

Read the title.

Won't read anymore.

Solution: Don't get into an arms race with your DM because you are unhappy.

[mangosta71]

You made an account over a year and a half ago just to share this? Really?

Anyway, getting into an arms race with the DM isn't going to go your way. Rule 0 means he can wave his hand and say "you fail and die." There is nothing that you, as a PC, can do in that situation.

Maybe someone else in the group would like to try their hand at running a campaign.

[cerin616]

I dunno, if you can convince him to start a campaign at level 20, you should play "The Word" and maybe convince another character to play "The Wish"

The Wish and The Word were made in an optimization contest and was disqualified for being far over the top in game breaking power. The wish exploited summoning and crafting to gain a ring of infinite wishes. The word exploited a number of things to cast crazy high spells.

"So The Word casts all Arcane Spells at level 28, and all Divine spells at level one hundred and twenty-two."

Whats more fun than walking up to the BBEG, gentle caressing his face, saying "hush now... it will all be over soon..." and watching him crumble into dust.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/The_Wish_and_the_Word_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Bu ild)


But then again, its usually better to not **** on his day, and its much better to work it out so everyone can have fun.

[137beth]

Wait a minute, didn't you start an idendical thread (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pw98?So-my-DM-is-a-****-and-I-want-to-make-a) on Paizo's forums? And didn't you get the answer "just walk away, don't be a ****"?
And now, it appears GitP has given you the same advice, so I'm going to fifth it or whatever:

Talk it out. If that doesn't work, walk away. Don't be a ****.

[Barsoom]

For malicious campaign breaking, mind control is your friend. Charm or Dominate a major NPC, have them do your bidding.

I'm not sure if it works in Pathfinder, but in 3.5 there are ways to get Dominate Person as a 4th level spell. If you can't, Suggestion and Charm Person may work.

But seriously, walk away. Life's too short.

[Pesimismrocks]

Ditto the general advice. Talk to the DM or walk away. Now that that's out of the way....obligatory link. (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Old_Man_Henderson)

No living person, no matter how good or evil
Deserves to have that as a player in their campaign.

As to the OP, you unfortunately drew the shortest stick. If you try to break campaigns it'll annoy other players and if you quit other players may even think your immature. Explain it to him, and just play a normal character. And if you want advice on how to deal with your DM other than walk away, you're on the wrong forum.

[navar100]

Play a wizard, Illusion specialist. Have as your signature spell Invisibility. Take the Silent Spell feat as well. Roleplay this as exacting as possible, literally being invisible and silent. The best way to do this is next gaming session don't be there. No one will be able to see you or hear you, roleplaying your character perfectly. Repeat this process for all further gaming sessions. If you get bored, in the meantime perhaps you can play a second character with another gaming group and have the fun of being in two gaming groups. For the second group go back to the old-fashioned way of showing up. They wouldn't know you as well so you'd have to cut back on the perfect roleplaying you're giving your original DM.

[nedz]

Lots of good advice here, but I've a better idea: Why don't you try DMing yourself ?

This would give you another perspective on issues like this, and produce the kind of game you want.

[Mutazoia]

My parent's live out in the boonies. Like 2 hr drive from the city boonies. They have a bit of land and naturally a barn. When they first bought the place the took in a couple of stray cat's to live in the ban and eat mice. They gave the cat's names: This one because he acted like a specific actor, that one because the color of his fur...

Flash forward a few years. Only two of the original named cat's remain. There are now just "kitty 1, kitty 2" and so on. Why? Because it's sort of a harsh existance and cats disappear, never to be seen again, replaced with some other stray that shows up for the free food. Naming them turns out to be a waste of invested time and emotion. Not that they don't love all the cats, they just don't get too attached any more.

D&D characters are kind of like barn cats. You'll go through a bunch of them over the years, and only one or two will be around for a long time. Inventing in a 5 page back story on a PC may be lots of fun for you, but it also causes you to invest a lot more emotionally in a character that you know is apt to die or be forgotten once the campaign is over.

To get so worked up over the death of a fictional character that you want to spend the next several weeks/months doing nothing but sabotaging everybody else's fun is a bit unhealthy, not to mention childish. I would echo other posts here and suggest you work this out with your DM out of game, otherwise you'll just make things worse, and get a reputation as THAT guy who nobody wants to game with.

[Grinner]

Lots of good advice here, but I've a better idea: Why don't you try DMing yourself ?

This would give you another perspective on issues like this, and produce the kind of game you want.

I'm going to second this. When you write things like...


To keep that story short, he was trying to railroad the story and our characters broke that story over our knee and he didn't know what to do so he wiped the slate clean.

...I get the impression you have no idea how difficult it is to put a campaign together. He could just be a doormat and let you walk all over the setting, but that wouldn't be fun for anyone.

[RFLS]

No living person, no matter how good or evil
Deserves to have that as a player in their campaign.

Ehh....I dunno. Debatable, at least. You have to at least admit that it's a hilarious read.

[Razanir]

No living person, no matter how good or evil
Deserves to have that as a player in their campaign.

Why? Ignoring the 300-page length, writing such a meticulously thought out backstory sounds fun

[undead hero]

Do it. *peer pressure*

Get it out of your system now or you will look back on this experience and think about the time you could have gone out the way you wanted instead of the way that "you should have".

Edited our to out... Damn autocorrect

[MukkTB]

It is possible to win in a player vs DM engagement. Mostly this is done by making the DM look like an idiot out of game while he roasts your character alive in game. People do it. I've seen long threads on the subject. I don't recommend it. D&D is a cooperative game. Everyone works together to have fun. When that process breaks down its time for an attempt at communication. Then you boot the offending player or leave the game.

[The Glyphstone]

Do it. *peer pressure*

Get it out of your system now or you will look back on this experience and think about the time you could have gone out the way you wanted instead of the way that "you should have".

Edited our to out... Damn autocorrect

And by 'go out the way you wanted' you mean 'destroy your friendships and never play games with any of these people again'? Easy advice to give when it's not your friends or gaming circle on the line...:smallconfused:

[Alienist]

Ask yourself: "What Would Tyrion Do?"

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Most of the game-breakers that I've seen gravitate towards Psion. If you can read the bad-guys thoughts that breaks roughly 70% of all plots right there.

Mother Cyst would be another way.

Tome of Battle to simply outshine everyone else with a melee character.

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But since this is Pathfinder, here's my suggestion:

A Summoner that spams summons.

This allows you to (a) crush all encounters with 0 risk, and (b) suck all the fun out of the game for everyone else.

Make sure to (among other things) make some wands of summon monster. They're not that expensive, and using one ~17 times per level (so 1.5 times per combat on average) means you get three levels out of each one.

Then go for staves, they're cheaper than wands for situations where a high caster level is important.

[Bryguy]

He posted this on the PF Forums as well. Thats probably where the made an account here thing came from.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pw7r&page=1?So-my-DM-is-a-jerk-and-I-want-to-make-a

Anyway the easy answer is not to play with him.

In fact its probably the only right one.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Hey, it's good to hear that you got your terrible DM situation sorted out in a mature and satisfactory manner.

Thanks.

Though that DM probably would be allowed as a player in future groups if we can trust he won't pull what the OP has trying to do with his group. But we've learned from experience that if joins a campaign that starts right after one of his dies due to bad DM'ing he'll just blame the DM of that group and get revenge on them.

---

Also, unimportant but to correct a small piece of info in my story above I relized I miss-said. We started with 5 players, 1 of which was absent. So the first week of that one of the players had quit making it 1/5 gone. Next week I quit so it became 2/5 and the absent player having heard all the stuff the DM was puliing left as well making it 3/5. But this also caused the other 2 players in an odd circumstance, one is still willing to be in his group if the other player stays, while the other player is debating leaving himself and has confirmed he will leave if the DM doesn't change his time form D&D since that's when our new group will now be taking place during.

[Gwazi Magnum]

To get so worked up over the death of a fictional character that you want to spend the next several weeks/months doing nothing but sabotaging everybody else's fun is a bit unhealthy, not to mention childish. I would echo other posts here and suggest you work this out with your DM out of game, otherwise you'll just make things worse, and get a reputation as THAT guy who nobody wants to game with.

To be fair, I get out right pissed and annoyed at the DM when he allows a character to die unfairly, without a fight etc. If the situation just got really and I died, or I knowingly made a stupid choice to charge at the demon in another Plane the DM warned me to run from and I had to break free of an ally's grapple to fight with, I understand the death and ain't mad.

But if it's something like "Player L got board and make a Player Killing character, he coup de graces you" or the DM uses DM fiat and/or purposely makes lethal encounters for that purpose to get someone killed I would be annoyed and be in good grounds to leave.

Yes it's true that its in d&d's nature to lose your characters eventually, but to unfairly lose them is a different matter all together.

[Friv]

Well, everyone else has given the "nooooooooo" advice, so I won't bother doing that.

Instead, I will give you some constructive advice!

Offer to run a very short campaign so that the DM has time to get a new setting together. Just a couple of weeks, nothing excessive.

Run Paranoia.


That should help you get the fury out of your system without ruining friendships.

[drack]

Yeah... don't become him. :smallwink:

[Spuddles]

Yes, yes, let the hate flow through you....

[Trinoya]

Alright, now that I have your attention, let me provide a bit of backstory here. I made an account here specifically just so I could share this.

So, a little less then six months ago my DM ends his pathfinder campaign because he worked himself into a corner and wanted to try a new system. To keep that story short, he was trying to railroad the story and our characters broke that story over our knee and he didn't know what to do so he wiped the slate clean.

So after that we made characters in the Song of Ice and Fire RPG ruleset. Me being a huge fan of Game of Thrones, I was actually pretty excited to try this because his campaign was starting to get rather dull and I was losing interest in my character (who has a 5 page backstory). But now I can make a new rogue-type character and have it actually be effective. There are rules for how to handle social encounters well and I am just all sorts of pumped.

Since then we have been playing that game and I had been having a lot of fun with it. The ruleset is different enough to be enjoyable and it felt like we were actually in a song of ice and fire. We got to build a house, I made another huge backstory and had a strong character concept to go with which I was proud of because that's an aspect of tabletop gaming that I have honestly struggled with (I tap on the fourth wall a bit too much).

Our last session in that game was last thursday, but I told him I was going to have to miss it because I was going with the family on vacation, which he was fine with and I was told wouldn't impact the session too bad. So I leave and I go dark without real internet connection for the next 5 days assuming that all would be well.

Come to find out when I come back that they had my character accused of murder and executed. It was apparently some big background plot he was running of a third party trying to pit houses against each other but we weren't making his rolls to properly discover evidence and found out about this plot. Our family was accused of poisoning and murdering a rival houses heir at a tourney with Braavosi poison, and guess who happens to have written a backstory where his character visited Braavos for a while and competed in a joust of honor with said heir at the tourney? Yea, so everyone collectively threw my character under the bus (Me being the only one who was really invested a character or had a real backstory) which I guess my character pleaded guilty to an just accepted his fate because I wasn't there to actually play him. Oh, did I mention my character was a staunch passivist and hated killing and didn't want to compete in the tournament to begin with?

But I'm told it's okay, because the DM ran out of ideas for that campaign and surprise! He cut it and wants to go back to his old Pathfinder campaign that I was getting bored of because he ran out of ideas and wrote himself into a corner in the Song of Ice and Fire RPG! Anyone else noticing a trend here? If he had just cut the game in favor of the old one I would have been fine with it, but the fact that he had my character killed for something so entirely against his backstory without me being there to apparently be the only one to offer protest has frankly pissed me the **** off. I felt like he robbed me of my own character, like his will and what I do with him is no longer my choice. He has his own character in another campaign out friend runs that he likes to play all mysterious and won't tell us **** about him that I thought about killing just out of spite, and I would do it too if not for the fact that it would undermine my friends campaign and I don't want to do that to him (even though he never spoke up to defend my character, still a little mad about that) and the fact that it goes against that character's personality, and I'd rather not sacrifice two characters I care about for this.

So now I'm out for blood. I don't really care as much about my old character (he railroaded us too much for me to stay invested, seems to be a trend), so I'm totally okay to start fresh. But I don't just want to start over with a normal character. No, I want to break his campaign. Last time we broke his story by accident (probably because he railroads so much that once we do one thing he doesn't expect us to do he can't comprehend how to respond), but now I'm out to do it on purpose. And not just his story, I want to break the whole setting, from smallest to largest possible detail.

I don't want to beat his encounters, I want to nullify them and make all his work for naught.

I want to take crucial NPCs and erase them from existence.

I want to be able to waltz in to places he would never expect us to be just to **** with things.

I'm going to hunt down the big bad guy and the big good guy and kill them both just so that way he has no way to rebuild the story.

If I could I would wipe the whole continent off the map.

But, my restrictions are that the characters are only level 7 and I am in a low magic setting, so I probably won't start with full gold on a new character. So, I need some help with what I should make here. A cleric that just stands there and debuffs and denies encounters to the point of making them trivial. A wizard who just sends things to another plane just because **** you he can. A rogue assassin who bluffs his way through the gates, invisibly walks up to the king, and then studies him for 3 rounds. I can't really decide what would be best to break the whole world, what do you guys think?

For the mean time, I think I'm going to play an old human wizard with alzheimer's and dementia just so I can be an annoying ****, but make no mistake I'm ready to take this for the long con. I don't care if it takes me weeks or months to break this campaign, but he was an ******* and shows no remorse for my characters. So if he wants to declare war, I'm ready to declare war. I'm going to take down a God and fight the DM at his own game.

TL;DR I worship a new god, his name is "**** your Encounter". Who wants to help me make a character to do it best?

It sounds to me like you're taking a game far too seriously and that you get enjoyment out of the idea of ruining other peoples fun, and their hard work. You're basically the worst type of player if that is the case and I highly recommend you find a new hobby. In short my advice is quit now and save everyone the headache of your tantrum.

Frankly "The DM was mean to me" isn't an excuse to try and ruin his work, because you're not going to accomplish anything. You can speak by talking or you can speak by walking to accomplish change, but you just seem to want to destroy the efforts of another individual over a game, a game that they provided.

Ultimately if you sabotage his game you're not only no better than your DM was for killing your character the way he did (presuming that is the whole story), but you're actually far worse since your very goals cited could destroy your entire D&D group and fracture your friendships should it go on long enough.



TL:DR Don't be an ******* just because you're mad. :smallcool:

[Gildedragon]

Not worth it. Regardless of it all, talk with the DM, who is, I presume, a friend and try and move on. Ask him to, in the future, consult the player of a character to whom stuff happens while their player is away. They are PCs, not NPCs, they are one of the few things where the DM should not meddle*, especially if the absence is brief and forewarned**.

As the campaign is changing: offer to DM, do not take revenge. One up him, DM better than the other guy, show him how it's done.

If the campaign wasn't changing: ask for a retcon of some more egregious aspects or ignore the rulings. Your character didn't die; just some other fella that looked very much alike. The challenging of narrative authority can, however, be disruptive.

Remember these people are your friends. They take longer to make than a 300 page backstory.

*There are limits to this. The DM can dictate what aspects are suitable to the game, and can offer suggestions, but the particulars are outside their purview.
**That's just rude. Though if a player unexpectedly leaves for an extended time, that their character gets NPCed ought be no surprise.

[Blackhawk748]

Play a druid, destroy the universe with an army of ents made with the Awaken spell, and summon a horde of creatures with Summon Natures ally. Now im all for working with your DM out of game to resolve the issue, hell yell at him, killing your character when your not there makes him deserve that much, but i also agree that there are times when the only way to make them get how pissed you are is to go full Henderson on him, and for that i recommend Druid. Or to really piss him off play a Dread Necromancer and Animate whatever he throws at you, then throw it at him, works great with hydras.

[Beowulf DW]

I've had two friends who were killer railroading DMs and gamebreaking munchkins who went into a fit when their druid's animal companion got killed (for the record, I damn near lost my character in that session and I thought it was awesome. He lost a class feature). The thing is, as bad as things got, those guys weren't doing what they did out of any sense of malice. That was how they had learned to play, and they saw no reason to change. So we parted ways and we're all still good friends to this day. We have simply agreed that our styles of play aren't compatible. Most of us are still in one group, but the two I mentioned are now in their own groups, and we get along just fine. Talk things over if he's a friend. If he's not a friend, then go to town and get it out of your system. Not venting your anger can really eat you up, trust me. Or even if you are friends, you might just agree to slug it out with each that way.

Basically, take a deep breath, get some sleep behind you, and try to think things through. Then decide on a course of magic.

[Kane0]

Don't do it man, it's a trap!

[Mutazoia]

To be fair, I get out right pissed and annoyed at the DM when he allows a character to die unfairly, without a fight etc. If the situation just got really and I died, or I knowingly made a stupid choice to charge at the demon in another Plane the DM warned me to run from and I had to break free of an ally's grapple to fight with, I understand the death and ain't mad.

But if it's something like "Player L got board and make a Player Killing character, he coup de graces you" or the DM uses DM fiat and/or purposely makes lethal encounters for that purpose to get someone killed I would be annoyed and be in good grounds to leave.

Yes it's true that its in d&d's nature to lose your characters eventually, but to unfairly lose them is a different matter all together.

On one hand I agree totally. If the DM had killed off the OP's character while he was away and then made him re-roll a new character to continue the campaign I would definitely file that in the **** bin.

But the campaign ended. The character wasn't going to be played again regardless so does it reall matter if he lived or died? Is it really worth getting all bent out of shape and spending the next few weeks/months trying to ruin the DM's next campaign? Because your not really ruining just the DM's fun..but that of everybody else at the table. Is having a character killed by DM fiat when a campaign is ended worth all that?

[Gwazi Magnum]

On one hand I agree totally. If the DM had killed off the OP's character while he was away and then made him re-roll a new character to continue the campaign I would definitely file that in the **** bin.

But the campaign ended. The character wasn't going to be played again regardless so does it reall matter if he lived or died? Is it really worth getting all bent out of shape and spending the next few weeks/months trying to ruin the DM's next campaign? Because your not really ruining just the DM's fun..but that of everybody else at the table. Is having a character killed by DM fiat when a campaign is ended worth all that?

I'm not supporting sabotaging the campaign in the slightest.
I'm just highlighting how the DM isn't really innocent in what he did.

[Roguenewb]

Hmm. I normally play a DM, so let tap into my inner hate file.

1.) Powerful divination can destroy plots with any degree of mystery involved. Plots within plots, secrets behind secrets all unraveled in like half a day's spell slots. Element to use: Spontaneous divination, Wizard ACF level 5.

2.) Totally self focused characters. Don't care about driving forces of everything else. Just do what they want. Take anything they can get away with. Betray other players and NPCs and governments all over the place. Don't need a class feature, just be a jerk. Wizards can do this best, again.

3.) Karma Chameleons. Characters who just always avoid whats coming to them. They never take responsibility for anything at all. Evade the law or any repurcussions. Magic jerks, are the key here again.

4.) Characters who disable BBEGs and minibosses totally, but leave them alive for high-tension to become laugh fests. The whole atmosphere is just ruined because somebody had a Save-or-Lose up the sleeve.

5.) Characters immune to too many things. Just laughing in the face of all different assorted threats and plot elements.

So, the sum total, a Warforged Wizard with Spont. Div. who uses immunity buffs on themselves, betrays constantly to get what they want, and uses magic to totally evade the law and pissed off NPCs. Mindblank/nondetection+teleport/disguise self makes you stupid hard to run down. Charm/Dominate means you can really screw the plot, and divination means you always know what the plot is. Look up the batman guide to wizardry, combine those power suggestions with my personality suggestions and you'd make me tear my hair out.


To all those people telling you to grow up, remember that catharsis is a thing, and that turnabout is fair play. I don't recommend doing it for too many sessions, as then its a fresh sin, but a little bit of turn-about is fine.

[Augmental]

To all those people telling you to grow up, remember that catharsis is a thing, and that turnabout is fair play. I don't recommend doing it for too many sessions, as then its a fresh sin, but a little bit of turn-about is fine.

Even if turnabout is fair play (which I don't believe, but let's assume it is), this form of turnabout has a high risk of alienating fellow players.

[NeoPhoenix0]

In general I agree with the people telling you to not do it.


To all those people telling you to grow up, remember that catharsis is a thing, and that turnabout is fair play. I don't recommend doing it for too many sessions, as then its a fresh sin, but a little bit of turn-about is fine.

Two words: collateral damage.

I recommend making a powerful caster of some kind who is capable of slacking off in comical ways and generally not taking the DM's plot seriously. Maybe disabling a second in command with a single spell if you feel the urge. If done right you are much less likely to destroy other players fun and possibly piss off a DM if they put any kind of work building up tension. Basically try to find the part of the campaign the DM cares about most apart from encounters and try to make it insignificant.

[Arbane]

So after that we made characters in the Song of Ice and Fire RPG ruleset.

How appropriate. (http://www.dorktower.com/2013/06/19/revenge-of-the-nerd-dork-tower-19-06-13/)

[Trinoya]

Even if turnabout is fair play (which I don't believe, but let's assume it is), this form of turnabout has a high risk of alienating fellow players.

I can't second this enough. You only need a drop of venom to permanently poison a group, to say nothing of the fact that any of them could be browsing this very forum and now know your intention to ruin the game they are going to.

[Vortenger]

Huh. Three days later... the OP hasn't responded... and people are still posting.

Yep, nothing to see here folks, please move along. Successful troll was successful.

[Killer Angel]

Huh. Three days later... the OP hasn't responded... and people are still posting.

Yep, nothing to see here folks, please move along. Successful troll was successful.

Or, given that the OP posted this thread as its single post, we could imagine that the answers leaved him unsatisfied and followed Gliphstone's advice... :smalltongue:

[Zerter]

I am perfectly fine with losing characters based on the dice going that way, me making a wrong decision or the right call. Losing them because the DM simply decides so? Unless that was explicitly part of the deal, that's a major offense in my eyes.

I would not deal with this in-game. First I would talk to him reasonably. The second step would be to tell him straight up that he overstepped his fiat and to undo the situation. This would be an ultimatum. If he does not go along I would inform him I will never accept him as DM again and that as a player I would have to see how it goes. None of this would be personal, but ultimately it might be him or me in the group. Given the situation, I am guessing it is him however.

As a DM you have huge power. With this comes huge responsibility, you are invested with this power to serve your players. I can't accept a DM that does not accept this, but I will fully accept anything from a DM that does.

[Emmerask]

TL;DR I worship a new god, his name is "**** your Encounter". Who wants to help me make a character to do it best?

Here is the thing, not only will the other players not react kindly if you actively try to destroy the game, also the dm always has the longer reach if there is only 1 player trying to destroy the game.

"10 balors suddenly appear kill you and vanish afterwards"

So I would highly suggest to try to talk to your dm outside the game.

[Sparkzlight]

Pun-pun. Pun-pun is the answer.

Or a wizard. Whichever floats your boat.

Fly, invisibility, fireball... Havoc. Pure havoc.

Of course, your DM's guards are probably level 26 epic paladins or something ridiculous.

[buttcyst]

everybody that has posted to this so far is absolutely correct.


As a DM, if a player had a problem with anything I made a call on, up to and including death while absent, first, I would not expect to not have some sort of retaliation from the PC/group, in game. Second, it should be dealt with out of game so that any issues could be resolved before the next session and the game can either continue smoothly or, if starting over is the case, begin on a good note.

But, as a DM, there are very few instances where an absent player has been killed, once by accident (double "1"... critical miss... 9 lives stealer... it was yucky), and once because the player had bee3n absent for 2 sessions and was going to be moving soon, he asked to be removed.

There has only been 1 incident of me DM ordering the assassination of a character. said PC was caught cheating and the assassination was approved after extensive research and an attempt to rebuild his character which uncovered illegal feats and a couple of gestalt levels and the use of an ability that doesn't even exist, the ability that brought the PC into question in the first place, some kind of destroy everything chaotic burst thing.

That being said, player v DM is always a bad idea, it tends to ruin games and ultimately, the player always loses, either characters or friends. simply playing a spellcaster with some imagination is enough to break most games/worlds anyways, without ruining fun for anybody as long as you don't set out with it having malicious intent.

remember though, as annoying as a character as Henderson would be to have in a game, his exploits at game breaking actually became a centerpiece for the campaign.

also mentioned is DMing your own game, give it a try, it's not too difficult to do if you have the time it takes to work that extensively on a character. it is equally, if not more rewarding to see a world you made up be inhabited and explored as it is to explore someone else's with a well made, well thought out character.

if you do go the DM route, remember everything you don't like about games and make it better. Dealing with the game breaking spells isn't difficult if you have already thought of it happening, and then accommodating for it.

and if YOUR DM is on this forum and reading this... dude, making stuff up when the party turns left isn't that hard and can be written in between sessions, you don't need to know how a campaign ends in order to start one, and even if the group doesn't finish what they started, that doesn't have to mean game over, that should mean "help us find person x... totally unrelated to this quest...". Person x is blah blah blah from overthere associated with whocares wanting the party to find and deliver a ton (2000 lbs) of guano to his friend "grand wizard forgotisname"... promise of great rewards... encounter encounter encounter... xp xp xp... lvl lvl... onward elsewhere. it will in turn give you the DM a break from your mindset in your storyline and could be an unknowingly needed turn of events and mood. ending the game because your players aren't going where you want them to go is going to end up with a lot of ended games. PC know no boundaries, and half don't even know most of the rules... just a given

[Mutazoia]

Try reading THIS thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288091)...from a DM's point of view about a player who is doing exactly what you are considering doing.

[Soupz]

Most times we get PCs who aren't happy about games they decide to run a campaign themselves and either fail horribly or succeed and start negotiating out which friends go with which person and trying to screw over the other games.

Try DMing. Say it's only a few sessions and you want to try your hand at it. End each session with a good hook.

[Socratov]

just to drive the point home: don't. I mean, revenge is a dish best served cold, becuase once you get it, the food (once warm) will have colled down the the temperature of your ex-girfriend's heart.

My advice (like many others before me) would be to speak with the DM out of game and tell him how you feel about his actions with respect to your character, to his handling of a campaign and general style of DMing. Then you will need to liste to what he has to say in defence of himself and what he thinks of you and your characters (this is the hard part) and finally you agree on a new course of action.

[Beandip]

Just become a "Rules Lawyer" and contradict everything you can. Slows down the campaign and makes you a jerk!

[Emmerask]

Just become a "Rules Lawyer" and contradict everything you can. Slows down the campaign and makes you a jerk!

And a month later wonder why you never got an invite for the next session... you heard there was one last Saturday... maybe your phone company canceled service so they couldnt reach you?! :smallbiggrin:

[Beandip]

Just take an eagle to Mount Doom and throw the ring into the fire and end the campaign...oh wait...:smallconfused:

[Techmagss]

Instakilll rule
On every crit on major characters or enemies, roll another roll to see if you instakilll them. It has to be a crit though so this only works sometimes