What would you do with these AP rolls (3.5e)

[pinnyo]

So I'm starting a new campaign in a few days and I got stuck with these rolls for AP: 14, 12, 10, 10, 8, 8...

We are playing Core only (basically anything from here (http://www.d20srd.org/)) and I have no idea what race / class to choose now. Also we already have 2 Druids and 1 Barbarian so I don't want to be either of those.

I am going to start at level 2 (was going to be level 3 but my DM let me level down and reroll my AP again because my first set of AP rolls didn't even have a 10...). I've recently played a Sorcerer so I don't really want to be a Sorcerer this time around.

We are starting with whatever weapons we want (nothing magical unless I have a really convincing backstory apparently) and whatever armor (no plate or anything and nothing magical).

Atm everyone else got pretty nice rolls and I don't want to be completely useless I suppose. Thanks!

[RFLS]

First, ask why you're being penalized for having bad luck. That's pretty much what happened.
Next, ask if you can use point-buy with points equivalent to 2 less than the rolled amount of the party's lowest character. This will probably be turned down.
Smash your head into the wall in frustration.
Revisit point number one and point out that, per rules, you should get a free reroll with no penalty because of how low your initial set was.
Smash your head into a wall. Seriously, rolling for stats can be awful sometimes. This seems to be one of those times.
Roll up a wizard or a cleric, age him to venerable. Accept that he's probably going to die soon, but at least your casting stat is decent.


EDIT: As was pointed out below, Warlock is a solid class for low ability scores. I'd like to add Binder to that suggestion.

[Talderas]

So I'm starting a new campaign in a few days and I got stuck with these rolls for AP: 14, 12, 10, 10, 8, 8...

What's sad is that stat array is one of the lowest possible. If any of your stats were 1 point lower it would cease to be a rules legal stat array since your total modifier would drop from +1 to +0 (permitting the reroll) or your 14 would become 13 (permitting a reroll).

--



Revisit point number one and point out that, per rules, you should get a free reroll with no penalty because of how low your initial set was.

The free reroll requires one of the following.


Your highest stat is 13 or lower.
The sum of your modifiers (before race adjustments) is 0 or lower.


His highest stat is 14 thus excluding the first case.
The sum of his modifiers is +1. 14 (+2), 12 (+1), 10 (+0), 10 (+0), 8 (-1), 8 (-1).

[Gwendol]

Not the greatest of rolls, but I will recommend wizard with the following allocation:

STR 8
CON 12
DEX 10
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 8

Suggested races: Human or dwarf. I guess gnome can work too, if you can stand switching WIS and CHA.

As you level up, keep putting points in INT.

[Talderas]

Dragonfire Adept is a good class to go. It's relatively stat independent. Dump the 14 into your constitution and apply normal DFA chedder.

[Gerrtt]

How about a rogue? I mean, if you play a dex-based combat focused rogue you don't need to worry about your charisma or INT as much, so you could put your stats like so:

Str 10
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 8

You're not going to be winning any awards with those stats, but it'll be playable, especially if the campaign/DM isn't too harsh at low levels. As you get higher level keep putting your points in dex and pick up weapon finesse. Again...not going to be winning any awards, but it's not terrible.

[AWiz_Abroad]

When luck screws you over,

WARLOCK

Make a deal with a malevolent outsider (or Chaotic Fey) for more power.

You don't need good ability scores, particurally if you stay ranged while plinking with EBs. It's suboptimal, but may fit in better depending on the level of your party (If it's a high op group, go wizard)

[Drelua]

The free reroll requires one of the following.


Your highest stat is 13 or lower.
The sum of your modifiers (before race adjustments) is 0 or lower.


His highest stat is 14 thus excluding the first case.
The sum of his modifiers is +1. 14 (+2), 12 (+1), 10 (+0), 10 (+0), 8 (-1), 8 (-1).

No, he was talking about the first set when the OP didn't even get a 10, and was therefore penalized by starting at a lower level than everyone else. This would be completely ridiculous and unfair even if there wasn't a rule clearly saying he should get a free reroll with stats like that.

So, ask your DM why you're being forced to play a weaker character than everyone else just because you had a spot of bad luck. He will not be able to offer a good reason because there is no such thing. The point of this game is to have fun, not to bet your fun on the roll of a few dice. Sure, you can still enjoy playing a character who's inferior to the rest of the party, but it will be almost certainly be frustrating at times.

Just so we know exactly how screwed you're getting, do have a good idea what stats everyone else has?

[mattie_p]

First, ask why you're being penalized for having bad luck. That's pretty much what happened.

So when I fail a save in your game and die, I get to ask why I am penalized for having bad luck? Rolling for stats is the default method in the rules. In games where you roll for stats, this sometimes happens. Life goes on, the game can still be fun.


When luck screws you over,

WARLOCK


Dragonfire Adept is a good class to go. It's relatively stat independent. Dump the 14 into your constitution and apply normal DFA chedder.


We are playing Core only (basically anything from here (http://www.d20srd.org/))


Not the greatest of rolls, but I will recommend wizard with the following allocation:

STR 8
CON 12
DEX 10
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 8

Suggested races: Human or dwarf. I guess gnome can work too, if you can stand switching WIS and CHA.

As you level up, keep putting points in INT.

Gwendol hit it on the head. This right here will build an effective character.

[RFLS]

The free reroll requires one of the following.


Your highest stat is 13 or lower.
The sum of your modifiers (before race adjustments) is 0 or lower.


His highest stat is 14 thus excluding the first case.
The sum of his modifiers is +1. 14 (+2), 12 (+1), 10 (+0), 10 (+0), 8 (-1), 8 (-1).


I am going to start at level 2 (was going to be level 3 but my DM let me level down and reroll my AP again because my first set of AP rolls didn't even have a 10...).

I'm just going to leave these two things here that are in some way relevant to each other.

I was pointing out that the reroll rules that you quoted say he should have had a reroll without dropping a level. It was a separate point.

[RFLS]

So when I fail a save in your game and die, I get to ask why I am penalized for having bad luck? Rolling for stats is the default method in the rules. In games where you roll for stats, this sometimes happens. Life goes on, the game can still be fun.

So uh...if you'd thoroughly read the OP, you'd notice that his DM forced him to play a level lower if he wanted to reroll his stats from his initial set, which very much qualified for a reroll. Hence, being punished (lower level) for having bad luck (the rolls). I didn't feel that that was difficult to follow.

[pinnyo]

Just so we know exactly how screwed you're getting, do have a good idea what stats everyone else has?

They got: [16, 14, 13, 11, 10, 10] , [16, 14, 12, 12, 10, 10], [16, 14, 12, 11, 11, 10].

But yeah I think I'm going to see later today if he will let me reroll / regain that level.

Thanks for all your help guys! If he doesn't let me reroll I think I'll go Wizard. Luckily I'm playing with some awesome people so it should still be fun. DM is just a hardass for some reason. If you have some more suggestions I'm all ears :P

[mattie_p]

So uh...if you'd thoroughly read the OP, you'd notice that his DM forced him to play a level lower if he wanted to reroll his stats from his initial set, which very much qualified for a reroll. Hence, being punished (lower level) for having bad luck (the rolls). I didn't feel that that was difficult to follow.

Yeah, but you listed that as step 4 in your not terribly helpful itemized list of things to do. To summarize your list of steps...



Complain to DM.
Complain to DM again.
Smash your head into the wall in frustration.
Complain to the DM yet again.
Smash your head into a wall, again.
Accept your PC will die.


It is not the end of the world. XP being a river and all that, he'll catch up soon. It is a game. It can still be fun without having any stat above 14.

[Drelua]

They got: [16, 14, 13, 11, 10, 10] , [16, 14, 12, 12, 10, 10], [16, 14, 12, 11, 11, 10].

But yeah I think I'm going to see later today if he will let me reroll / regain that level.

Thanks for all your help guys! If he doesn't let me reroll I think I'll go Wizard. Luckily I'm playing with some awesome people so it should still be fun. DM is just a hardass for some reason. If you have some more suggestions I'm all ears :P

Well, that's weird. Those stat rolls are remarkably similar, all three of them even adding up to a 28 point buy, a fairly common PB value. Not saying they cheated or anything, but... huh. That also happens to be double your point buy of 14, I believe.

Anyway, at least their rolls aren't too impressive. If they had rolled nothing below a 15, which I've seen happen, then you'd probably feel pretty weak at times, especially alongside two druids. It should be manageable. Losing a level wouldn't be completely crippling if you can't talk him out of it or anything, it's just the complete arbitrary unfairness of it that bugs me.

[Gwendol]

More to the point, by playing a wizard he will barely feel the lack of AP at the level he starts play, and as he levels (hopefully) he will be able to increase INT fast enough to stay relevant.

[RFLS]

Yeah, but you listed that as step 4 in your not terribly helpful itemized list of things to do. To summarize your list of steps...

It is not the end of the world. XP being a river and all that, he'll catch up soon. It is a game. It can still be fun without having any stat above 14.

I mean, if we're doing bad impressions...


Suck it up.

But, as down that road lies madness, I'll just explain the steps. Since they weren't clear. Or something.

I'm advising he check why the ability generation rules weren't followed. I'm sure the DM has a reason. Aside from that, and given the general lack of complaint from the player, the DM sounds reasonable. I disagree with him (the DM) on this aspect of character generation, is all, and it seems (key word) reasonable to at least ask.

Next I'm advising he ask, roughly, "Can I play a character with stats that are at least in the same ballpark as the other players'?" This wouldn't be on the list, really, if it weren't for the fact that the OP specifically mentioned that the other players' stats were very good compared to his current ones.

Smashing his head into the wall is purely voluntary. I tend to do it when working with rolled stats, but that's just personal preference. Seriously, though, rolling stats is obnoxious if you have a particular character in mind, because they very rarely line up to something you'd like.

Yes. You will die faster if you have low stats. I don't know why this is even up for debate. Low stats at low levels on any of the SAD or NAD classes with their typically low HD can very much be a death sentence. It's the name of the game.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Forest Gnome should make a good race to be as hard to find and/or hurt as possible. If that's not to your taste consider something else that's small/good at hiding. You definitely don't want to get hit.
If LA buyoff is allowed consider the Dark template for HIPS, otherwise save up some money to buy the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis asap.
You can be nearly impossible to find with minimal/no skill investment for the first few levels.

[Krazzman]

I would kindly ask why he uses these houserules for stat generation. Then ask if you can use the "by the book" method.

Since you don't want to be a Sorcerer, Wizard will probably be too similar for you. As will be a Psion.

Druid would be your best bet to be effective thanks to wildshape...
But that is a few levels away AND already 2 guys are druids and the Shapeshifter variant wouldn't help too.

How about a Bard?

Put 10 in int, 14 in cha and 12 in con and wis. make him 2 steps older and play him as a frail collector of stories (having 6 str, 6 dex, 10 con, 12 int, 12 wis and 16 cha) and songs and such stuff that has already seen his best days.

[Gildedragon]

Core only? Tiefling or grey elf
Necropolitan grey elf if possible
Go wizard and fight from range. A lot of range.

[Gwendol]

Yeah, bard was my second suggestion. Core only though and with those rolls the bard will be a bit lackluster. Wizard is still your best bet.

[BowStreetRunner]

What would I do with these rolls? I wouldn't. In over 25 years of gaming I have never, ever been required by a DM to play under such circumstances. (Keep in mind that I played 1st edition and we DID roll for our stats.) If one player was stuck with such a raw deal, the DM usually just waved his hand and made an adjustment that everyone felt was fair and we moved on.

Remind your DM that the game is supposed to be fun. Direct him to the point-buy system and show him how all the others effectively have a 28 point buy already.

[Novawurmson]

If anything from the SRD is allowed, remember the Psion is in your calculations. Core-only, Wizard is probably the best remaining option.

[Medic!]

Games are supposed to be fun, so take those rolls and have fun with them...I once played a venerable jermlaine monk/druid gestalt and voiced him like Yoda...sure he had a strength score so low that he couldn't carry a tune but it didn't matter.

Eventually he died and I made a new PC but I had a ton of fun with him RPing in the mean-time.

Put together a venerable wizard or something and ask your fellow players to help you with some of your shortcomings...be a gnome and get them to carry you or something...or take your level loss as a reincarnate and roll a race off the reincarnation table.

Hell take/create tables for every aspect of your PC and roll him completely random and just have a good time with it...call it a critical thinking exercise.

[pinnyo]

Thanks for all the suggestions. My DM let me reroll again and I got [17, 16, 15, 14, 12, 9] o.O So I'm pretty happy about that.

He still wanted me to be level 2 for some reason but I don't mind anymore, he is pretty fair when it comes to exp so in a few levels I won't be behind really.

Thanks all! ^^

[Invader]

Dragonfire Adept is a good class. you're good to go. relatively stat independent. Dump the 14 into your constitution and apply normal DFA chedder.

This is what I'd do. Also add on Dragonborn for a little more con and you're good to go.

[eggynack]

Thanks for all the suggestions. My DM let me reroll again and I got [17, 16, 15, 14, 12, 9] o.O So I'm pretty happy about that.

He still wanted me to be level 2 for some reason but I don't mind anymore, he is pretty fair when it comes to exp so in a few levels I won't be behind really.

Thanks all! ^^
Huzzah then. Fortunately for you, the answer to, "What do I do with low stats, and a low level compared to the party?" and, "What do I do with high stats and a low level compared to the party?" are both, "Play a wizard." This might be because the answer to most questions in the game is, "Play a wizard." Actually, my answer to most questions in the game is, "Play a druid," but the other members of your group already took that advice to heart. You could always play a not-wizard, but what's the point of that? Wizards are sweet.

[Roguenewb]

This is gonna be crazy hard to play. If you do go wizard, your save DCs are gonna be between 1 and 3 points lower than they should be. That translates to between 5% and 15% easier chance to make them from foes. So you can stick with spells that don't ride saves, but it will hurt your effectiveness, especially with color spray and glitterdust being your normal spell heroes.

Can I recommend artificer? First, the play will be wildly different from sorcerer. Second, because magic items are capped at the minimum Ability score to cast the spell, you won't be losing save DCs or the like. Finally, the earlier spell access will boost class power level. Its also a great class.

[BowStreetRunner]

The XP differential for being lower-level than the rest of your party will catch you up fast enough. In fact, I used to watch the party Crafter play the XP game on a regular basis and he was always hanging just a level behind the rest but it never seemed to hurt him.

[137beth]

This is gonna be crazy hard to play. If you do go wizard, your save DCs are gonna be between 1 and 3 points lower than they should be. That translates to between 5% and 15% easier chance to make them from foes. So you can stick with spells that don't ride saves, but it will hurt your effectiveness, especially with color spray and glitterdust being your normal spell heroes.

Can I recommend artificer? First, the play will be wildly different from sorcerer. Second, because magic items are capped at the minimum Ability score to cast the spell, you won't be losing save DCs or the like. Finally, the earlier spell access will boost class power level. Its also a great class.

They are playing core only, so I highly doubt artificer will fly...
Wizard will work, put your 17 in INT, and your next highest ability scores in dex and con, and you will be set.

[Gwendol]

Thanks for all the suggestions. My DM let me reroll again and I got [17, 16, 15, 14, 12, 9] o.O So I'm pretty happy about that.

He still wanted me to be level 2 for some reason but I don't mind anymore, he is pretty fair when it comes to exp so in a few levels I won't be behind really.

Thanks all! ^^

Those are really good rolls! If you plan to stick with wizard, you should definitely go with INT 17 and CON 16. The others depend on what kind wizard you want to play, I'd probably put 15 in WIS and 14 in DEX (helps with aiming rays and other ranged touch spells). You could go mystic theurge, for dual casting advancement (suggest cleric with magic and whatever, war maybe), since you got the WIS for it.

[Maginomicon]

Buck the trend, play with psionics (which are also in the SRD).

Play a Psychic Warrior and put the 14 into WIS.

Play up the stealth potential psionics has because you can dispense with displays by expending psionic focus. Act in-game like a civilian.