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View Full Version : [3.5] To lazy to look this up about metamagic, And AFB



Menzath
2013-06-26, 07:18 PM
So let's say that I have a bit of metamagic, and a few metamagic reducers(all of which can get spell adjustment to +0).
Is the spell adjustment going to be calculated as an overall +/- or done on a per metamagic application.

Example ;Spell level 2, total reducers of -2 , silent +0, energy substitution +0, heighten +5. Would that be an adjustment of (0-2)+(0-2)+(5-2)=0, or just 0+0+3=3?

papr_weezl8472
2013-06-26, 07:56 PM
I think the total adjustment would be +5. Metamagic cost reducers do not, AFAIK, apply to Heighten, as it increases the actual level of the spell rather than just the level of the slot required.

Roguenewb
2013-06-26, 11:49 PM
Welcome to the deep, brain numbing world of metamagic reducers! [also, silent is a +1 metamagic, not a +0 metamagic]

1.) Most metamagic reducers include the phrase, "Not to Less Than +1".
2.) The feat Arcane Thesis, king of the metamagic reducers, lacks this phrase. However it has recieved errata. This errata says the final level of a spell, after all metamagic can't be less than the spell's normal level. This doesn't mean a given metamgic can't go below zero, but that the final amount is the spell's normal level.
3.) Heighten is excluded from many metamagic reducers. Notable exceptions are Easy Metamagic, Practical Metamagic, and the Incantatrix (BUT NOT THE DWEOMERKEEPER's) improved metamagic ability.
4.) Even the three sources listed above that can interact with Heighten say to a mininum of +1 (see 1!), as a result they only function with Heighten to 2 or more.

Now, where you found 2 that can reduce a given metamagic to +0, I dunno, I'm only aware of Arcane thesis and the ability of the class from BoEF, but whatever.

In the situation you listed, with 2 sources that can't go less than 0, you're looking at level 5.

For a more realistic situation, if you have arcane thesis to this spell (Scorching Ray is Fun!) and Incantatrix's Capstone, here's what happens!
Silent is reduced to a +0 by thesis, and doesn't interact with I's C, so +0 so far. Energy Sub is reduced by thesis to -1, but doesn't interact with I's C, so -1 so far. Finally a +5 levels of Heighten. Hieghten is reduced by 1 from I's C, but no interaction with Thesis, so its +4. +4-1=+3, so its a 5th level spell.

In the final, beautiful dream, where you have feats that interact with everything and can go to anything, its -1, -2 and +3 respectively, which would even out a +0, using a 2nd level spell.

TL;DR We need to know your sources. Probably 5th level spell.