Little bit of BBEG Help

[pbdr]

So the BBEG in my campaign is a dread necromancer.

My question is how many and what types of undead can he control? I know how many hit dice he can control (132HD) actually, but really, what flavors specific types, etc.?

And what level for a PC group to have the "final fight"?

[GilesTheCleric]

He can control whatever kinds he likes. As the DM, you should feel free to add undead templates (eg. skeleton) to any creature you like.

The EL the party can take him at depends on his CR, and the undeads he's got. If it's a couple of CR 20 dragons with ~30HD each, then that's a pretty difficult fight for non-optimized 20s. If it's 132 1HD skeletons, then even a level 2-3+ party should be fine save for crits.

[ArcturusV]

I suppose the thing is... that's... not a lot. I mean presuming you want sort of a standard adventure to kill the Necromancer, you're going to have to spread those HD around quite a bit. I mean they can't ALL just be lounging around next to the Necromancer waiting to fetch him his mint juleps and Cuban cigars. They need to be out there, doing stuff, and generally being spread out into other encounters for the heroes.

If I was going to make a rough adventure of it that would last for a single weekend gaming session? You're talking about 5-6 "Adventuring Days". Of which you can have 3-6 fights during it.

So you're talking roughly in the range of 25-30 encounters. So you're talking close to 4 HD of undead per encounter. Meaning probably a lot of humanoid/animal Skeletons and Zombies.

Which is okay for first level adventurers to face. Though this means your BBEG is probably faaaaaaar too powerful for your little crew to wreck the day of at the end of the adventure. Meaning they are either smart and run away, or the Necromancer just goes "Well... crap... my minions are dead" and decides to cut bait.

Both can be fodder for a recurring villain. But the one thing you definitely don't want to happen at all, is have your players feel that they can take on the Necromancer in a fight, and force that condition. Because he is gonna up and SLAUGHTER them. No contest. And since he's a necromancer, probably a fate worse than death as mindless zombies await them.

[ArqArturo]

I mean they can't ALL just be lounging around next to the Necromancer waiting to fetch him his mint juleps and Cuban cigars. They need to be out there, doing stuff, and generally being spread out into other encounters for the heroes.

You're right. Other have to roll the cigars and mix the mint juleps.

[pbdr]

SO, I'm not sure the a 12th lvl dread necro will "slaughter" the party of 10th lvl PCs....

I'm just wondering what kinds of undead the necro could create and control.

I'm thinking to spli them up into mutiplt encountrs, some tough skeletons and zombis as an early one, but from there?

Ho many will be with the BBEG....

[Stux]

Personally I wouldn't worry at all about the HD limit. Just make the CRs for various fights plausible. If you absolutely have to have your BBEG follow the rules, perhaps a devil has leant him undead minions as part of some pact so they don't count towards his HD limit?

My thinking is the priority as a DM is making the encounters fun and challenging. Not having to balance everything in the small print to make legal characters, when chances are your players won't even know anyway. There is nothing at all wrong with fluffing a reason for why an NPC doesn't have to stick to the same rules as the characters if it comes to it, such as the mentioned above pact with a devil.

As far as levels for the minions/the BBEG that will depend entirely on what level the party is and how many of them there are.

[ArcturusV]

Probably not with 10th level. But I was figuring that spread out logically the encounters leading to the Necromancer would be more fit for 1st level adventurers, maybe up to 3rd. And a 12 level character would slaughter them at that point.

At 10th level? You'd have to have a really truncated adventure if you were going to stick yourself to the HD limits. Other options being hiring random mortal thugs, etc. Or very dangerous options like having a single vampire or ghoul that he created which spawned a lot which are not at all loyal to him...

I dunno. Just if the villain at the end of an adventure/campaign is a Necromancer, I want a lot of undead encounters involved. Not just a few undead encounters with a lot of otherwise random enemies. And that HD cap isn't going to go very far.

[pbdr]

Yeah, reading back over that, I didn't really explain the situation well or what Iw as looking for.

Let's try again. In the campaign, the PCs are getting near to where they will be fighting the baddie that's been stalking them since 1st lvl. He is a 12th lvl human dread necro, that can control up 132 HD undead.

My plan is to have the PCs fight him when they are about 10th lvl.

The question should be more about what types of undead a 12th DN can create and/or control (skeletons, ghasts, wights, mummies, etc.) and what would be appropriate to have "on hand" for the final fight to be challenging, but not overpowering......

[GilesTheCleric]

As long as your PCs can hit CR-apprpriate enemies, then I recommend going with more creatures that are weaker as opposed to a few strong ones. It'll be easier to avoid the dice falling the wrong way and fragging someone accidentally.

MM1 has vampire, 5th level fighter, mohrg, and specters that are all CR ~8.

If you want a memorable, but not too difficult fight, you could use the swarm rules with some skeletons or some undead with a unique attack - be sure to do low damage, but add something fun like 1 wis damage per failed DC 15 will (if you're not using taint), or maybe a fear effect. Even if they're not at threat of actually dying, seeing your character's wis drop is pretty scary, and it's probably a dump stat unless they're casters or really into spot and listen checks.

I remember my DM pulled out these things called Bonespurs from MMV (they're CR3), and ran the "caravan of death" suggested encounter. Man, was that creepy. We were playing a game with some horror elements, though, so it was all good. In any case, set up the mood properly (we had just camped, and some innocent creature had run through our campsite and into the woods, where a broken cart and the skeletal remains of a teamster were lying, as if they had died instantaneously and then never been disturbed by nature).

Advance the HD on some of the lower-leveled undeads, and give them something unique - have them pop out of a tomato seller's cart, or maybe give them weapons made of barbed wire and some townfolk that the PCs just saw wandering off. If some players don't show up to a session, maybe the PCs wake to find that their friends are missing from their bedrolls and have been replaced by mohrgs.

In Und, IIRC, there's a stone called blightstone that kills plants and slowly drains the life force from creatures that stand on it. Even with low-HD creatures that the PCs can easily defeat, feel free to metagame a bit and make them think they're in more trouble than they actually are. Then you don't have to worry so much about CR-appropriate.

[Blackhawk748]

i believe a 12th lvl Dread Necro could make a Wight, not sure though, but i know he could have ghouls, 22 6HD ghouls. Sounds like a great honor guard to me.