Tips for Ruby Knight Vindicators?

[INoKnowNames]

Gah. Hit the home key and managed to delete my post...

I'm trying to help a friend build a Tristalt charater: he's got Feat Rogue (with a 3 la tempate) on one side, and a Tashalatora Psychic Warrior on the other. The last, to make up for the Bab, improve the hit dice, and add some more durability is going to be a Ruby Knight Vindicator. His overall focus is on Lock Down Style unarmed attacks of opportunity, possibly even two weapon attacks of opportunity (aren't there like 2 feats that allow for this, even if one is Dragon Material) if he can get it working (and get Unarmed Two Weapon Fighting approved).

His build is massively MAD: While he's going to need Dexterity the most for his To-Hit and Attacks of Opportunity (relying on buffs and special abilities, as well as Unarmed Damage for Damage), he'll also need good Constitution as a Front Liner. He'll also make good use of Wisdom for both the Cleric Spells he will receive and the Psychic Warrior Stuff, as well as further AC through Monk. Feat Rogue and those lovely skill points means that Int isn't as big a concern, though he'll need to avoid a penalty there and in Strength to avoid suffering from things. Charisma is... odd. I personally would never appreciate Night-Stick shenanigans, so I can't, in good faith, recommend them to another player in that way, so baring multiple pools of turning, Charisma will also need to be at least decent.

Any tips for him? Any feats or spells/powers that might make it hard for a Tumble to slip through his grip? He's looking to go Crusader 4 - Cleric 1 - RKV x, since that Full Bab, d10 Hit Dice, and increased Durability are all very, very yummy. I'm not sure if to recommend more Cleric Classes for more pools, or just more Crusader to keep up those awesome bonuses... maybe even dipping out of RKV early since it's only really Divine Impetus he needs there.

I'm curious about this because I'm also about to make a similar character, though with a bigger focus on Spell Casting: looking to be able to "Evard's Tentacles of Forced Intrusion" to the Action Economy, while maintaining 9th Level Spells... which means only 1 caster level can be lost while multiclassing for additional pools of turning...

Any tips for both of us?

[Snowbluff]

Yeah, Monk and Swordsage AC don't stack.

Bind Tenebrous. Achieve Turning.

[INoKnowNames]

Yeah, Monk and Swordsage AC don't stack.

Bind Tenebrous. Achieve Turning.

Um... who mentioned Swordsage? At least beyond you?

And Binder wouldn't actually fit either character. At least I'm not sure if it would fit him, but it definitely wouldn't fit mine, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fit him. Plus, I don't even know all the rules for binding yet...

[Nightraiderx]

When you say lockdown, do you mean tripping? Also the starting level of these characters would help us understand better what you were trying to do, and was there any other reason why he is taking RKV? It seems a bit of a waste if he wants a build that lockdowns, what are the character concepts? is RKV vital to it?

Also if you want to reduce mad I suggest this: use a psion instead of a psy warrior since you won't need the bab and you'll be casting off of your int which will increase your HP using the fairie initiate feat. So that's HP, SKILLS, and AC with int. and instead of RKV you can go straight factotem and be adding your int twice to ac, spam standard actions remove pesky DR so you can punch more.

you will need, just grab Knowledge devotion with all the Int you can get to get more to hit bonuses, Factotem can add your int to hit as well. combat expertise/ improved trip to lock down with your fists. There is a complete warrior feat, defensive throw that allows AoO trips if the opponent misses (which you can fix with Factotem inspiration points) Grab Combat Reflexes, Deft Opportunist which adds a +4.

You'll have med bab but that won't matter because psions can also grab healing and buff spells that can keep you hitting hard. Battle jump is also fun if you want to take the standard action, port in the air, use psionic lions charge and pounce.



and how does your concept differ from his?

[INoKnowNames]

When you say lockdown, do you mean tripping?

I suppose tripping would help, yeah. Between Thicket of Blades, Stand Still, Robilar's Gambit, Karmic Strike, Defensive Sweep, Mage Slayer, and any other options that get picked up (I know for a fact that there was a feat that lets you move around a foe you threaten, and attack it every time it -could- have attacked you but chose not to. the name escapes me, though) that lets you essentially shred foes via attacks of opportunity. That's the main fighting strategy to be, if I remember right. I suppose being able to trip such a foe as well, if need be, would also be useful.


Also the starting level of these characters would help us understand better what you were trying to do, and was there any other reason why he is taking RKV? It seems a bit of a waste if he wants a build that lockdowns, what are the character concepts? is RKV vital to it?


and how does your concept differ from his?

I suppose more information would be helpful. His original character was a Cleric/Monk/Sacred Fist. Basically a super monk. But he's expanding it to Tristalt. So 1 full path can be dedicate to the monk-y goodness (and made even better with Tashalatora), while another can be dedicated to Cleric goodness (the last one being feat-rogue just helps with ensuring he has enough feats for everything he wants to do, in addition to skill points and a good reflex save).

I recommended RKV because he needs Thicket of Blades, and it's one of the few classes off of the top of my head with good hit dice, full bab, -and- provides other goodies. His character will be at level 6. Though I'm starting to think that Divine Impetus might be worth dropping in exchange for other Cleric-y goodness, so long as Thicket of Blades can still be grabbed with some Multi-classing and near Full BAB / Bulky HD can be kept.

My character, on the other hand, is just to be a Super Caster that, as I could have sworn I mentioned before, beats the action economy like a sack of potatoes. He'll actually be my first near epic level character, and swift action quickened spells sound delicious.


Also if you want to reduce mad I suggest this: use a psion instead of a psy warrior since you won't need the bab and you'll be casting off of your int which will increase your HP using the fairie initiate feat. So that's HP, SKILLS, and AC with int. and instead of RKV you can go straight factotem and be adding your int twice to ac, spam standard actions remove pesky DR so you can punch more.

Without Psychic Warrior, there's absolutely nothing that makes his character even remotely Monkish beyond 2 levels of Monk. And nothing that makes his punching even worth writing home about. And dropping both RKV and Psychic Warrior reduces his hit dice to d6s, which is kinda weaksauce. Working harder and dropping core parts of the character to make an unneeded stat do what good stats already do seems entirely counter intuitive. Rogue pretty much covers skills, he's already needing to pump Dexterity for his Attacks of Opportunity anyway so that will be covered (in addition to the bonuses he gets from Monk and Wisdom, which also synergize with Clerical spells and Psychic Warrior Powers, as well as buffs Will Saves), and Constitution also buffs his Fortitude Save.

Though I did just learn, for the first time ever, that RKV only has d8 hit dice... that's a downer, even if it does still have Full Bab...

[Nightraiderx]

Ah, ok. Then for trisalt is this- Crusader 4/Cleric 1/RKV1// Psychic Warrior 6// template +3/Feat Rogue 3

You do not need levels in monk for tash to work. Unless you are specifically using martial monk feats or are even bothering with stunning fist I suggest the full psychic warrior. Martial monk feats are quite nice and it can net you the double hit AoO and improved trip feats without having to waste them through your feat rogue.

If you dip prestiege pally later in the build and take serene it'll make his build
more wis for turning otherwise don't worry as much and take extra turning feats so he can use his swift action spamms more frequently. taking the second level will make him be able to recover his abilities faster and get what he wants. I wouldn't worry about ur cha but ur still going to be MAD what template is he applying?



So casting why not take all the casting classes then?

Ideal Time mantle Ardent//Wizard with reduced metamag//Cleric Focus RKV

u have swift actions, you only have to worry about Wis and Int
You have spammable actions, linked metapsionics for time borking,
reduced metamagic quicken maybe using beguiler and double progression class to use your beguiler casting to fuel your wizard quicken metamag. you can have int to hp become undead and what not.

[INoKnowNames]

Ah, ok. Then for trisalt is this- Crusader 4/Cleric 1/RKV1// Psychic Warrior 6// template +3/Feat Rogue 3

You do not need levels in monk for tash to work. Unless you are specifically using martial monk feats or are even bothering with stunning fist I suggest the full psychic warrior. Martial monk feats are quite nice and it can net you the double hit AoO and improved trip feats without having to waste them through your feat rogue.

2 levels of monk bring 3 free feats (yes, he's gonna go with the Martial Monk Feats), Evasion, the Decisive Strike Feature, and a small yet appreciated saving throw boost. Definitely worth it.


If you dip prestiege pally later in the build and take serene it'll make his build
more wis for turning otherwise don't worry as much and take extra turning feats so he can use his swift action spamms more frequently. taking the second level will make him be able to recover his abilities faster and get what he wants. I wouldn't worry about ur cha but ur still going to be MAD what template is he applying?

Technically, Serenity applies to basic Paladin, not Prestige (and given that one is a base class and one is a prestige, and they work different enough for a DM to comment on it, that distinction is worth noting), but that is an option. Though I thought it specifically says in the notes on Prestige Characters that Prestigious and Base Classes shouldn't be offered together, and Base Paladin already exists.

As for my character, the only thing I'm trying to figure out is where I can grab the extra turning pools from to abuse Divine Impetus while still maintaining 9th level spells. The other parts of the build, I'm hammering down a step at a time, but I've pretty much got that figured out.