need a good optimisation

[geonova]

i normally play a rogue but i now kinda wanna play a half-elf ranger/druid but don't have any ideas past that.

oh, and if i play a ranger i want to replace favored enemy over anything else

[Flickerdart]

Half-elves are massively underwhelming as far as optimization is concerned. There aren't many ways to replace Favored Enemy either; some ACFs will do it for a single instance, but not the whole thing.

Druid, on the other hand, is really easy to optimize. At 1st level take a Riding Dog and cast Entangle on stuff while it kills the stuff. Dump Strength and Dexterity, focus on Wisdom and Constitution. When you get Wildshape, turn into awesome combat forms and kill stuff. By level 8 you never need to be not Wildshaped. Take Natural Spell at level 6 so you can cast while Wildshaped.

Since druids have so many abilities that use monsters (Spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally, Wildshape, animal companion) it would be good for you to rifle through some Monster Manuals and see what neat animals you can find. Dinosaurs are usually a pretty strong bet, but a bear will do in a pinch.

[thethird]

I would go with: Deadly hunter Druid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm) into Prestige Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm) (for two levels)

There isn't much to replace favored enemy though.

[Emperor Tippy]

Do you actually want to play the Ranger or Druid classes or is there a specific archtype that you want to play?

Because Martial Monk 2/Targetteer Fighter 2/ Rogue 1/ Monk variant Druid 15 would give you a far better ranger.

Martial Monk gets you Distant Shot and either Swarm of Arrows or Shot on the Run (I recommend Shot on the Run so that you can take advantage of your speed).

Targetteer Fighter gets you Dex to damage instead of Str with a bow and one bonus feat.

Rogue 1 gets you sneak attack and thus lets you take Craven for +HD to damage on sneak attacks.

Drop Rogue and 1 level of Fighter if you want 9th level Druid casting.

Drop the Druid variant if you want Wildshape instead of a better Ranger.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Why would you want to replace FE? It's pretty much the only Ranger class feature that's at least worth something.

[geonova]

i actually enjoy the ranger for it's versatility and the fact that it is a martial, casting and stealth class all in one, and my idea for a ranger is that as a half-elf, and an outcast in both human and elven societies, i dislike discrimination of any form

[Flickerdart]

Why would you want to replace FE? It's pretty much the only Ranger class feature that's at least worth something.
It's...what? Rangers get some good spells that actually make archery usable, evasion, hide in plain sight, and the bonus feats don't hurt either. Favored enemy, on the other hand, is a small circumstantial bonus.

[geonova]

It's...what? Rangers get some good spells that actually make archery usable, evasion, hide in plain sight, and the bonus feats don't hurt either. Favored enemy, on the other hand, is a small circumstantial bonus.

exactly my reasoning

[thethird]

Well then I found myself that a Scout 4 / Deadly hunter 2 / Prestige Ranger 14 works pretty well. Grab swift hunter, improved skirmish and zen archery. It is quite SAD and versatile.

[geonova]

i don't really want to use the prestige ranger, and i want to be about level 6-9 right now since my dm acts knowledgeable but kinda sucks at it

[sleepyphoenixx]

Evasion at 9th? HiPS at 17th? I can't think of any build that would go that far into Ranger without having at least 2 or 3 better options available, no matter the purpose.
There is pretty much no reason to ever take more than 6 levels of Ranger unless you go for a swift hunter build.
HiPS at level 20 is a little late if it's a core component of your build.

Also, to get to the good archery spells using core Ranger you pretty much have to suck over half of your career. By the time you get them you're again too late and lag behind your opponents.

FE gets you a slight bonus right at level 1. Yeah, it's small, but it's something.

[thethird]

Then Druid and Ranger don't mix really well...

[Flickerdart]

Evasion at 9th? HiPS at 17th? I can't think of any build that would go that far into Ranger without having at least 2 or 3 better options available, no matter the purpose.
There is pretty much no reason to ever take more than 6 levels of Ranger unless you go for a swift hunter build.
HiPS at level 20 is a little late if it's a core component of your build.

FE gets you a slight bonus right at level 1. Yeah, it's small, but it's something.
I think you and I might have different definitions of "at least worth something".

[sleepyphoenixx]

I think you and I might have different definitions of "at least worth something".

You can get a decent damage boost on an archer by investing a few resources into FE. Improved FE & a Hunting enhancement = +10 damage against FE.
I'll take that over 2 spells at level 10 any day.

[geonova]

FE is only good against specific enemies and my DM is extremely erratic in the types of things we encounter so i'll get the bonuses less 20% of the time

[sleepyphoenixx]

FE is only good against specific enemies and my DM is extremely erratic in the types of things we encounter so i'll get the bonuses less 20% of the time

That's what FE:Arcanists is for. If your DM never sets you up against arcane casters because you took it you win anyway :smalltongue:

[Flickerdart]

You can get a decent damage boost on an archer by investing a few resources into FE. Improved FE & a Hunting enhancement = +10 damage against FE.
I'll take that over 2 spells at level 10 any day.
And next level, you get Arrowsplit, Arrowstorm, and Blade Storm. Even at level 10, you have Burrow, Hunter's Eye, Scent, Spellslayer Arrow, Arrow Mind, Entangle, and Hunter's Mercy.

+10 damage against some creatures? Psh.

[Emperor Tippy]

FE is only good against specific enemies and my DM is extremely erratic in the types of things we encounter so i'll get the bonuses less 20% of the time

Well lets see. There is Arcane Hunter. Loose favored enemy, gain Favored Enemy (Arcanists).

There is also Rival Organization. Loose your favored enemies and gain what is basically "favored organization".

That's all there is for giving up Favored Enemy.

[geonova]

my DM normally just finds a random monster from the mm1 with a CR close to the parties and chucks it at us with no prior thought to the encounter

[sleepyphoenixx]

And next level, you get Arrowsplit, Arrowstorm, and Blade Storm. Even at level 10, you have Burrow, Hunter's Eye, Scent, Spellslayer Arrow, Arrow Mind, Entangle, and Hunter's Mercy.

+10 damage against some creatures? Psh.

You still have only 1 3rd level spell/day unless you somehow have 24 Wisdom.
+10 Damage on every attack beats that easily.

[Flickerdart]

You still have only 1 3rd level spell/day unless you somehow have 24 Wisdom.
+10 Damage on every attack beats that easily.
>every attack
>have to choose a narrow category of creatures
what

In the meantime, scrolls, wands, and pearls of power are quite cheap, and Mystic Ranger is a thing which exists.

[Somensjev]

yeah, or he gives us something with no possible way of getting past, and when the fighter makes a strength check, there hundred-odd gp sword gets shattered "oh, but you can go past now"

edit: i was referencing our DM

[geonova]

oi chaotic remember to state when your talking of our dm

[sleepyphoenixx]

>every attack
>have to choose a narrow category of creatures
what

In the meantime, scrolls, wands, and pearls of power are quite cheap, and Mystic Ranger is a thing which exists.

FE: Arcanists, Abberations, Undead, Evil Outsiders covers the majority of enemies you'll encounter in your standard campaign. That's hardly "a narrow category".
Unless your DM randomly throws monsters at you you should have at least some idea what you'll face.
All your archery spells won't do much if your arrows don't deal any damage in the first place.

Mystic Rangers are good not because of Ranger class features but because of Sorcerer-like spell progression and Sword of the Arcane Order.
Still doesn't mean you can't PrC out and get the casting on a better chassis.

Also i don't consider "be somewhat viable 3-4 rounds/day as long as you invest a lot of money" a good class feature.
Scrolls and wands can be used by anyone with a 2 level dip or UMD.
You don't need to take 11 or more levels of Ranger for that and can instead take something that boosts your damage all day.

Rangers are just inferior as a class choice for pretty much any role.
While that doesn't mean that you can't build a functioning Ranger it also doesn't mean you can't do better.

[Flickerdart]

I'm not saying Rangers are great. I'm saying that out of the things they get, a small circumstantial damage bonus isn't exactly their best foot forward.

And if you think that Mystic Ranger is only good with SotAO, then you need to take a look at the other things they have on that spell list of theirs that become viable with more slots per day and faster scaling.

[Somensjev]

-snip-
Unless your DM randomly throws monsters at you you should have at least some idea what you'll face.
-snip-

yes, yes he does