suggestions to help new RP

[tim01300]

So I've been DM for a irl group for a few months now and I am still having a hard time getting them to role play. The group right now is two new players and one experienced player.

The problem is the experienced player will only role play what he himself calls *******s. So dialogs with NPCs always end up resorting to insults or just how much will you pay. For literally all dialogs. Any attempts to introduce NPCs or creatures in dungeons that are neutral to the party always end up resulting in combat. When enemies attempt to surrender he murders them before there is a change for dialog. I've talked to him outside of the game and he insists that he is just a "better roleplayer" because that is how his character would act. I don't want to kick this player out of the group because he is the only experienced player, we only have 4 players total (including myself) and he is my roommate so it may be akward.....

An example from our last game is in a dungeon they found a cleric speaking to a small group of zombies. The cleric was clearly dressed in white but the symbol of his god was unrecognized to the party. When they approached and he seemed overly friendly this player just started dropping fireballs on the cleric and the zombies. Saying later that anyone who talks with zombies is clearly going to be trouble..... Without trying to figure out, who this guy was or why he was there or anything.

The other players I feel are looking for action also, but are feeling there is zero roleplaying because he steamrolls everything.

Is there any situations that Force dialog, that he may actually enjoy playing an *******? I don't want to be heavyhanded and just have him insult an epic lvl and wipe the floor with him to "teach him a lesson". How do you encourage RP

[Lanson]

Honestly, sounds like you have a problem player on your hands. And even if you were being heavy-handed and killed the player, sounds like they're high enough level to pay for resurrection costs.

I would warn him that doing such things in game WILL have consequences if he does them to particular npcs. Next time he does it to a lord/king/ruling-body, have them put a bounty on his head, basically, turn it into a roleplaying opportunity that punishes him for being a jerk.

Do the other players mind how he plays? If he's causing problems in the group they may ostracize him naturally, and if you want to keep your group together you'll want to avoid this before either he leaves or they do. Dealing with problem players is always hit and miss, what works on some won't on others.

If all else fails, just keep a cool head and remind him that a cooperative group is always more important to maintain than his characters integrity, and his disruptive gameplay is forcing everyone else into a RL situation they want to avoid. He will probably get mad by the sounds of it, but if he can't respect the decisions of the other characters and their players, and your requests, then he's forcing himself out.

[CaladanMoonblad]

Giving in to bloodlust is Chaotic. Killing innocents is decidedly Evil. After another such incident, feel free to shift their PCs alignment. This can really screw a Cleric, or a Paladin.

Alternatively, feel free to also sick older siblings on the heroes who seek justice (along with a posse).

Another method... Make a dungeon of all riddles and traps. No combat. Don't even give them the opportunity to fight something.

[tim01300]

a dungeon of all riddles might work, can't fireball a riddle.

His alignment is chaotic neutral mage and I've toyed with the idea of making him chaotic evil but I'm worried that would only make him worse.

How does alignment shifts work if they don't know if someone is good or evil before they decide to attack? In one of the above mentioned moments he started attacking the cleric that was talking to zombies. Also in the party is a cleric of Pelor, who once the fireballs started to fly, helped kill the man. They never talked to him to find out who he was so they don't know if he was evil or good or neutral. I know that the man was once a good cleric who went insane after his family died, fell from his grace, and raised other bodies as zombies and thought he was communicating with his family(he was't).

So should the cleric of pelor be at fault at all?

[BowStreetRunner]

I would warn him that doing such things in game WILL have consequences...turn it into a roleplaying opportunity that punishes him for being a jerk.

Any time I DM for a player whose PC is 100% predictable, I will not hesitate to set him up big time. Put him in a situation where you KNOW he will do the wrong thing and where doing the wrong thing will bite him in the @$$.

Set up a situation where he makes such an attack in front of witnesses. Let word get out publicly. Have him turned away at the gates of every town as unwelcomed.
Put family and friends of his 'victims' out there who will want to get revenge. Not just low-level types who will only result in extra XP for him either. I would put a Bloodhound from CAd who is at least 5 levels higher on him and see how he likes it.
Use his family and friends to apply peer pressure. Next time he gets turned away from a town, with the bloodhound hot on his trail and needs refuge. Tell him a friend or relative's home is nearby. When he goes there seeking shelter, have them let him in but roleplay them telling him that he needs to change his ways or the family/his friends will cut him off.
Make it hurt. Set up a situation where the BBEG actually benefits from the PC's actions. Turns out the NPC he just killed was the only one who could activate the MacGuffin needed to defeat the BBEG, so now the PC is going to have to come up with a Raise Dead for the NPC. Only when he goes to raise the NPC, the NPC proves unwilling to be raised. The BBEG wins and the PCs now have to retreat and go on the defensive.

Furthermore, check the PC's alignment. If he keeps doing things that are both chaotic and evil (and I think some of his behavior would definitely qualify as either or both) then his alignment should change accordingly.

[BowStreetRunner]

How does alignment shifts work if they don't know if someone is good or evil before they decide to attack?

Killing someone without just cause is generally considered evil. (Not to mention illegal in most places.) Even during the crusades the knights asked for and received special dispensation when they went to war against the 'infidels'.

Just whack them with a "Thou Shalt Not..." from their deity and most PCs will realize they need to follow the gunslinger's code: Draw second, shoot first. "It was self-defense, your honor!"

[CaladanMoonblad]

a dungeon of all riddles might work, can't fireball a riddle.

His alignment is chaotic neutral mage and I've toyed with the idea of making him chaotic evil but I'm worried that would only make him worse.

How does alignment shifts work if they don't know if someone is good or evil before they decide to attack? In one of the above mentioned moments he started attacking the cleric that was talking to zombies. Also in the party is a cleric of Pelor, who once the fireballs started to fly, helped kill the man. They never talked to him to find out who he was so they don't know if he was evil or good or neutral. I know that the man was once a good cleric who went insane after his family died, fell from his grace, and raised other bodies as zombies and thought he was communicating with his family(he was't).

So should the cleric of pelor be at fault at all?

My suggestion for this: at the next gaming session, give the Cleric a sheet of paper with the following (or something similar)...

"Troubled Dreams;
The hallway is dark, just as it was. Ahead is the figure in white, plaintively asking questions of the corpses... "Laura? Why won't you answer me? Tell me what I have done? Sister! Beautiful Sister, please answer me, why are my nephews dead? What happened to them? Who did this?"

Your steps are slowed as you approach. BLANK the chaotic neutral mage is to your right, his baleful eyes as red as blood as he starts his incantations. You know what is coming next. It's already happened.

SHIFT...

You weep in front of Pelor's throne, but it is empty. The entire church is empty of the living, but in the pews are corpses you recognize... each head turning towards you... there, on the left is the first (insert a list of the victims)..."

It might scare the Cleric to be suspicious of the chaotic mage.

Chaotic mage? Cripes- how does this person stand studying such a lawful endeavor as magic? I can understand a sorcerer being chaotic, but a wizard?

Sue the bastard. Some family member who was able to cast "Speak with Dead" and access to a Jusiticiar or Inevitable is a good way to spank the wizard.

[PriestOfPelor]

how i do good RP to cleric of pelor? i only play 2 years so i need some help with that

[BWR]

Yup, this is a problem player. Out of game problems should in most cases be handled out of game.
Explain on no uncertain terms that always playing borderline evil jerks is not appropriate for the type of game you try to run.
Explain that no, trying to excuse his jerkish behavior with "I'm just roleplaying my character" isn't good enough. If all he can do is go against the grain of the setting, then he's not a player you want in this particular game. Maybe if you start up another game where people can shoot first and ask question later and get away with it, you'll invite him back but he obviously doesn't fit in with or appreciate the game you are trying to run, so it's better for everyone if he just doesn't come back to this one.

Harsh? Yes, but really it's better than trying to apply in game consequences to a player who obviously doesn't care about working with the DM or the group.




Chaotic mage? Cripes- how does this person stand studying such a lawful endeavor as magic? I can understand a sorcerer being chaotic, but a wizard?

I don't think those words mean what you think they mean. Law and Chaos are how you feel about society, community and tradition compared to individuality, freedom and change.
Lawfulness is not the same as discipline, capability and intelligence, and Chaos is not the same as lack of discipline or personal codes. Otherwise you would never have any Chaotic high-level anythings because they lacked the discipline or mental capacity to perfect their skills.

[Inevitability]

how i do good RP to cleric of pelor? i only play 2 years so i need some help with that

You may want to start a new thread for that, instead of necromancy'ing an one-year old thread.

*Turns undead*

[John Longarrow]

Cleric of Palor?

Undead?

Expect IMMEDIATE combat. Clerics of Palor are ardent about destroying undead. There also VERY GOOD at it. Surprised the Cleric didn't just TURN the zombies and watch them go poof.

For your room mate, I'd suggest having a chat about what YOU enjoy in game. If he doesn't want to play the same kind of game as you, let him know your not interested in HIS game.

This may wind up with the following happening

DM "OK, you enter the bar. The old gentleman behind the counter calls a greeting to you and asks how he may be of assistance"
Player "I swagger in, spit in the fools face, and grab what ever I want!"

YOU "OK, were stopping now. Let me know when you want to play D&D." You begin packing up. When the others ask why, be VERY OPEN about the kind of game you want to run. Be straight up and let them know you are not enjoying the game. You will probably have either a very short talk or a long talk about what should be happening.

Worst case, you need to find a new group to play with.
Best case, your game gets back on track and you can teach two new players how to play.
Middle ground, you and the two new players do a few sessions without your rommie to get them playing in a way that is similar to your style.

[jedipotter]

Is there any situations that Force dialog, that he may actually enjoy playing an *******? I don't want to be heavyhanded and just have him insult an epic lvl and wipe the floor with him to "teach him a lesson". How do you encourage RP

I would not say this is a problem player. But you do have a problem. It is a common disconnect between DM's and Players. The DM wants a role-playing game, the player wants a roll-playing one. The Dm wants lots of talk and interaction, the player wants a little less talk and a lot more action.

D&D is really set up for more action and combat. Just look at the feats, skills, spells weapons, and classes. In D&D you have a fighter with armor, weapons, and magic items......not a peacemaker with buddy bands, flowers, rainbows. So, chances are if they encounter something, they will attack it.

And the old bait and switch is just a bad idea. Where you have a ''misunderstanding'' to teach the players don't judge a book by it's cover. Sure, if you see a guy talking to zombies it might.... might be for some good reason. One time out of a hundred...but the other 99 times are evil, evil, evil and more evil. So when a players sees something wrong expect them to react the right way, and try and kill it.

Also along the lines of D&D having a combat focus. Most players like the line of 50% combat/50% role play. So if they just role-played in town for like an hour (real time) and then headed out to some caves....they would be expecting combat. Not more role-playing.

[Urpriest]

If you've told the player their character is disruptive and their response is "but my character would act that way", your response should be "yes, and that's why we're going to have your character undergo character development so they stop acting that way".

Think about any TV show where one of the characters gets too disruptive to have meaningful plots. Almost always, the character has some sort of revelation or otherwise hits rock bottom, figures out the error of their ways, and changes. Just tell your player that's the kind of plot you're going to need to go through.

And if your player still insists on being an *******, then point out that in that case it's the player choosing to be disruptive, not the character.