Getting Into Anime: Initial Thoughts

[Empedocles]

So, after enjoying enough manga in my life for it to be worth it, I'm starting to get into anime in earnest, watching what seem to generally be considered classic, or "must see" series. I'm just going to share a few of my initial reactions, ask a few questions, and then, of course, ask for recommendations. If there's a good series available on Netflix that you'd recommend, please do so!

Trigun: Trigun is one of the most highly recommended anime I've seen, but so far, it's disappointed me. It's just not...exciting enough. I'm about 10 episodes in, and besides the two episodes with B.D. Neon, nothing has really made me care much. Wolfwood is relatively interesting, but if things don't pick up soon I don't think Ill finish it.

Afro Samurai: While highly recommended, this didn't feel like many anime to me. It was more...Kill Bill, except in anime form. Very stylized, and very Tarentino-esque. That being said, I still really enjoyed it. RZA nailed the soundtrack and Samuel Jackson was a familiar touch of home that was quite welcome in a foreign genre. I plan on watching Afro Samurai: Resurrection soon.

Code Geass: WOW am I enjoying this! Brilliant series. However, things are moving quite...quickly, especially with Lelouch's ability, and I feel almost as if I'm missing something. Thoughts?

Soul Eater: I started watching this mostly because it's on netflix, and it feels pretty juvenile. Should I keep with it? Only went about 4 episodes in...

Gun X Sword: Maybe my favorite so far, except for Code Geass (not including the aforementioned confusion). Awesome characters, awesome fights.

So any recommendations, clarifications on Code Geass (are things explained? Or do I just need to pay more attention?), or comments?

[Grinner]

Soul Eater: I started watching this mostly because it's on netflix, and it feels pretty juvenile. Should I keep with it? Only went about 4 episodes in...

In spite of the Ms. Fanservice of the Year candidate (I don't remember her name), it does actually develop into a full narrative. And yes, it does hit the usual shonen tropes hard, though it passes pretty quickly once you get into it.

This seems to be a recurring theme in anime.

My advice is to watch at least the first season and then reevaluate your position.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Trigun: Trigun is one of the most highly recommended anime I've seen, but so far, it's disappointed me. It's just not...exciting enough. I'm about 10 episodes in, and besides the two episodes with B.D. Neon, nothing has really made me care much. Wolfwood is relatively interesting, but if things don't pick up soon I don't think Ill finish it.
That's fine. It probably won't appeal to everyone. You've already I'd say, if you don't enjoy watching Vash's antics and simultaneous idealistic struggle, juxtaposed against Wolfwood's cynical pragmatism, you don't need to go on. To me, that's the lifeblood of the show. Also, I've come to much prefer the Trigun Maximum manga. It picks up after the Fifth Moon incident and does a much better job with the material IMO.

Afro Samurai: While highly recommended, this didn't feel like many anime to me. It was more...Kill Bill, except in anime form. Very stylized, and very Tarentino-esque. That being said, I still really enjoyed it. RZA nailed the soundtrack and Samuel Jackson was a familiar touch of home that was quite welcome in a foreign genre. I plan on watching Afro Samurai: Resurrection soon.
WHAT. Okay, now I have to watch this. I did not hear that the RZA was behind the music.

Code Geass: WOW am I enjoying this! Brilliant series. However, things are moving quite...quickly, especially with Lelouch's ability, and I feel almost as if I'm missing something. Thoughts?
You'll have to give specific questions. But sometimes, it does get confusing, yes. Especially because the second season (R2) didn't get to devote enough episodes to the main plot, because of Executive Meddling.

[Empedocles]

In spite of the Ms. Fanservice of the Year candidate (I don't remember her name), it does actually develop into a full narrative. And yes, it does hit the usual shonen tropes hard, though it passes pretty quickly once you get into it.

This seems to be a recurring theme in anime.

My advice is to watch at least the first season and then reevaluate your position.

Hmm...okay, I'll give it another shot.


That's fine. It probably won't appeal to everyone. You've already I'd say, if you don't enjoy watching Vash's antics and simultaneous idealistic struggle, juxtaposed against Wolfwood's cynical pragmatism, you don't need to go on. To me, that's the lifeblood of the show. Also, I've come to much prefer the Trigun Maximum manga. It picks up after the Fifth Moon incident and does a much better job with the material IMO.


WHAT. Okay, now I have to watch this. I did not hear that the RZA was behind the music.

It's SO good, from a stylized perspective. And totally worth the 5 20 minute episodes.


You'll have to give specific questions. But sometimes, it does get confusing, yes. Especially because the second season (R2) didn't get to devote enough episodes to the main plot, because of Executive Meddling.

Um...I don't really have any I can put my finger on. I just felt as if the show was assuming I knew more about everything going on then I did. For example...in an early episode there's a narrative that occurs identifying his ability as Geass, but in the actual show it hadn't been called that yet.

[MLai]

Trigun: Trigun is one of the most highly recommended anime I've seen, but so far, it's disappointed me. It's just not...exciting enough.
It is a somewhat old anime, with an art style that IMO hasn't aged that well. And you may not like the main character's happy-go-lucky attitude? However, it does get more serious as the plot kicks in. Also, at the time it first aired, it was innovative and a trend-setter. For example, the anime came out in 1998; Devil May Cry the game came out in 2001.

Afro Samurai: While highly recommended, this didn't feel like many anime to me. It was more...Kill Bill, except in anime form.
It's a strange anime, in that it's a manga by a Japanese manga artist, who was making something he feels is "ghetto" or "gangsta" or whatever you want to call it.
It definitely succeeded in making me think I was watching something written personally by Samuel L Jackson, and drawn by Japanese animators with no editorial oversight. I don't really mean that as a compliment. YMMV.

Soul Eater: I started watching this mostly because it's on netflix, and it feels pretty juvenile. Should I keep with it? Only went about 4 episodes in...
I finished watching the entire series. Aside from an art style which started off interesting, and one awesome character (the snake witch), it is juvenile shonen. There are better action-packed series out there if you want something with more mature story and characterization.
I recommend you instead watch Full Metal Alchemist, and Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood.

[tensai_oni]

Trigun is not a classic or a must-see show, it's just that it was on Adult Swim and was really popular. It's the same reason that Gundam Wing is considered in many circles to be THE Gundam show, while others (read: people who didn't watch Adult Swim) consider it inferior to many others.

But anyway, I found Trigun to be a good show. There is a very noticable shift in the plot when it changed demographics from shonen to seinen. You may like it or not depending on whether you enjoy silliness or serious storytelling more.

My recommendations for shows that are not very long (26 eps or less) and considered must-see:
Cowboy Bebop (movie optional)
Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (season 1, in broadcast and NOT chronological order. Season 2 optional)
Ghost in the Shell (movie 1, movie 2, both TV shows... anything's good but you should probably watch the first movie first)
Neon Genesis Evangelion (controversial but a must-see regardless, just to say you watched it if anything else. Movie also recommended but very WTF)
Azumanga Daioh (don't expect much plot, just funny and light stuff. Still great)
Macross: Do You Remember Love? (alternate retelling of the first Macross TV show squeezed into movie length. Don't consider it an equivalent of watching the show, but it's a great watch anyway)
Puella Magi Madoka Magica (considered the most influential anime of the last years, and for a reason)

EDIT:
I'll also second the FMA suggestion, even if it breaks my up to 26 eps length rule.

[Empedocles]

How could I have forgotten to mention?! I also watched FMA. I thought it was really, really good, but got a little stale towards the end. If I hadnt been able to watch it so quickly (marathon style) on Netflix I likely wouldnt have stuck with it. I plan on watching Brotherhood as well.

@tensai_oni, thank you so much for the other recommendations! I hadnt even heard of a few of those before.

Edit: thought of a question for Code Geass!

If Lelouch is the prince, and he hasn't even changed his name, but Clovis thought he was dead...how has he stayed in hiding for so long?

[HamHam]

Edit: thought of a question for Code Geass!

If Lelouch is the prince, and he hasn't even changed his name, but Clovis thought he was dead...how has he stayed in hiding for so long?

He changed his last name. Lamperouge is not his real name, it's vi Britannia. Lelouch is presumably not that rare a first name. In addition apparently the Ashford family has been doing something to keep them from being noticed but it's never really detailed.

Code Geass doesn't really slow down. I'd say it usually does a pretty good job of explaining, but you do need to pay attention.

Soul Eater is pretty good shounen, but it's still shounen. Either you like the genre for what it is or you don't.

Has anyone mentioned Death Note? You should go... well probably read Deathnote, but the anime is good too.

EDIT:

Gundam should be obvious. Depending on taste you may or may not find original MSG a chore to sit through, but there is basically a Gundam series for any taste.

[Don Julio Anejo]

From the sound of it, you've got more or less the same likes as I do, and you don't like the inane silliness/stupidity.

So.. First, stay away from shows like Tenga Toppen Gurren Lagann or FLCL, or they will turn you off anime, at least in the first little while. Hell, I'm pretty into anime and I still don't get them at all.

In general, first look for Seinens (aka, "young adult male"). That is, shows targeted at young men. They tend to be more serious, deal with issues other than "but if we work together with the power of friendship, we can accomplish anything!" (even FMA is guilty of this at times). Code Geass is a seinen, for example. It wasn't even supposed to have giant mecha in it to begin with and was a show about politics and terrorism.

Now, here are some recommendations:

1. Full Metal Panic (other than Code Geass, my other favourite series). A combination of "real robot" (mecha are treated as a piece of military equipment rather than some piece of phlebotinum) and high school comedy. Child soldier (with all the things that entails, like a hilarious lack of social skills) gets sent to a typical Japanese high school to protect a high-value schoolgirl. Lots of military action and lots of high school comedy.

2. Ghost In The Shell. Near future, main character is a cyborg special forces commando. Politics, military action, cyberpunk.

3. Cowboy Bebop. Somewhat like Fifely - the story of a space cowboy bounty hunter out to catch a quarry. Awesome music, very unique style. Cool fights too.

4. Black Lagoon. Modern day pirates somewhere in Thailand. Gunfights, weapons smuggling, badass ex-paratrooper Russian Mafia. Main character is "fish out of water" Japanese salaryman who gets kidnapped by them, then decides "screw it, I'mma be a pirate now."

EDIT: how could I forget Fate/Zero. 7 mages summon mythical heroic servants to fight in a battle royale for a chance to make a wish. Any wish imaginable. Main character? Jaded Jason Bourne-like assassin. Backstabbing, covert urban war, magic ahoy. Best character? Alexander the Great, better known as "Broskander" because he's a total bro.

[MLai]

I see you found the latter part of FMA a little stale? Then you should absolutely love FMA: Brotherhood (no sarcasm at all). Basically, if you're at all hesitating to start on FMA:B because you're afraid it would be "a little stale" like FMA, you have no reason to fear at all.

I second Death Note cartoon, but only until the show's "jump the shark" point. After the shark-jumping, it's all downhill from there. I'm not even going to tell you what that point is; you'll definitely know it when you get to it.

I also found the 2-part Death Note live-action movies to be very good, and I had no problems with the changes the movies made to the manga storyline. Loved the movie ending.

[tensai_oni]

I see you found the latter part of FMA a little stale? Then you should absolutely love FMA: Brotherhood (no sarcasm at all). Basically, if you're at all hesitating to start on FMA:B because you're afraid it would be "a little stale" like FMA, you have no reason to fear at all.

I will explain on this point a bit more:
When the first FMA anime was being made, the manga was not finished yet. So it followed the manga plot until roughly halfway in, and then went in a different direction. But it was made with full knowledge and cooperation of the original author, so the final result was pretty good. Much better than you would expect from this setup anyway.
The Brotherhood anime follows the manga plot 100%. As a side effect, it rushes the "pre-split" parts pretty heavily, because it's done with an expectation that the viewer watched the first show already and wants to get to the new stuff fast. Of course this means new viewers can get confused instead.

[Empedocles]

He changed his last name. Lamperouge is not his real name, it's vi Britannia. Lelouch is presumably not that rare a first name. In addition apparently the Ashford family has been doing something to keep them from being noticed but it's never really detailed.

Code Geass doesn't really slow down. I'd say it usually does a pretty good job of explaining, but you do need to pay attention.

Soul Eater is pretty good shounen, but it's still shounen. Either you like the genre for what it is or you don't.

Has anyone mentioned Death Note? You should go... well probably read Deathnote, but the anime is good too.

EDIT:

Gundam should be obvious. Depending on taste you may or may not find original MSG a chore to sit through, but there is basically a Gundam series for any taste.

My friend lent me some Death Note manga a long time ago. I loved it, and in an odd little way Code Geass is reminding me of it. Lelouche as Zero versus Light as a punishing god, and Lelouche with the Geass ability versus Light with the Death Note (both powerful abilities with important limits).

Anyways, on to episode 9 of Code Geass, and I've put my reservations behind me. I shall, of course, look into Gundam, although I'm not really sure where to start.


From the sound of it, you've got more or less the same likes as I do, and you don't like the inane silliness/stupidity.

So.. First, stay away from shows like Tenga Toppen Gurren Lagann or FLCL, or they will turn you off anime, at least in the first little while. Hell, I'm pretty into anime and I still don't get them at all.

In general, first look for Seinens (aka, "young adult male"). That is, shows targeted at young men. They tend to be more serious, deal with issues other than "but if we work together with the power of friendship, we can accomplish anything!" (even FMA is guilty of this at times). Code Geass is a seinen, for example. It wasn't even supposed to have giant mecha in it to begin with and was a show about politics and terrorism.

Now, here are some recommendations:

1. Full Metal Panic (other than Code Geass, my other favourite series). A combination of "real robot" (mecha are treated as a piece of military equipment rather than some piece of phlebotinum) and high school comedy. Child soldier (with all the things that entails, like a hilarious lack of social skills) gets sent to a typical Japanese high school to protect a high-value schoolgirl. Lots of military action and lots of high school comedy.

2. Ghost In The Shell. Near future, main character is a cyborg special forces commando. Politics, military action, cyberpunk.

3. Cowboy Bebop. Somewhat like Fifely - the story of a space cowboy bounty hunter out to catch a quarry. Awesome music, very unique style. Cool fights too.

4. Black Lagoon. Modern day pirates somewhere in Thailand. Gunfights, weapons smuggling, badass ex-paratrooper Russian Mafia. Main character is "fish out of water" Japanese salaryman who gets kidnapped by them, then decides "screw it, I'mma be a pirate now."

EDIT: how could I forget Fate/Zero. 7 mages summon mythical heroic servants to fight in a battle royale for a chance to make a wish. Any wish imaginable. Main character? Jaded Jason Bourne-like assassin. Backstabbing, covert urban war, magic ahoy. Best character? Alexander the Great, better known as "Broskander" because he's a total bro.

These sound REALLY promising. I see Cowboy Bepop popping up quite a bit, as well as Ghost in the Shell.


I see you found the latter part of FMA a little stale? Then you should absolutely love FMA: Brotherhood (no sarcasm at all). Basically, if you're at all hesitating to start on FMA:B because you're afraid it would be "a little stale" like FMA, you have no reason to fear at all.

I second Death Note cartoon, but only until the show's "jump the shark" point. After the shark-jumping, it's all downhill from there. I'm not even going to tell you what that point is; you'll definitely know it when you get to it.

I also found the 2-part Death Note live-action movies to be very good, and I had no problems with the changes the movies made to the manga storyline. Loved the movie ending.


I will explain on this point a bit more:
When the first FMA anime was being made, the manga was not finished yet. So it followed the manga plot until roughly halfway in, and then went in a different direction. But it was made with full knowledge and cooperation of the original author, so the final result was pretty good. Much better than you would expect from this setup anyway.
The Brotherhood anime follows the manga plot 100%. As a side effect, it rushes the "pre-split" parts pretty heavily, because it's done with an expectation that the viewer watched the first show already and wants to get to the new stuff fast. Of course this means new viewers can get confused instead.

Ah, makes sense. In that case, I'll start watching Brotherhood soon. Is it repetitive with FMA in the beginning though?

[HamHam]

I will explain on this point a bit more:
When the first FMA anime was being made, the manga was not finished yet. So it followed the manga plot until roughly halfway in, and then went in a different direction. But it was made with full knowledge and cooperation of the original author, so the final result was pretty good. Much better than you would expect from this setup anyway.
The Brotherhood anime follows the manga plot 100%. As a side effect, it rushes the "pre-split" parts pretty heavily, because it's done with an expectation that the viewer watched the first show already and wants to get to the new stuff fast. Of course this means new viewers can get confused instead.

I don't think Brotherhood rushes all that much if at all. Rather, the original show added a bunch of filler in the early part of the story before you-know-what which actually had some good effects (liking give us more time with you-know-who before you-know-what). But it basically goes off the rails by like ep 27 when Izumi shows up... which is equivalent to volume 5 out of 27 for the manga. In Brotherhood Izumi shows up in ep 12.

In other words, Brotherhood matches the pacing of the manga closer than the original show... which is not necessarily a complete improvement.

EDIT:


My friend lent me some Death Note manga a long time ago. I loved it, and in an odd little way Code Geass is reminding me of it. Lelouche as Zero versus Light as a punishing god, and Lelouche with the Geass ability versus Light with the Death Note (both powerful abilities with important limits).

The parallels are rather obvious. It doesn't help that they came out around the same time. The difference is that Lelouch is actually a good person... more or less.


I shall, of course, look into Gundam, although I'm not really sure where to start.

If you want the original continuity, aka Universal Century, I would recommend the OVA War in the Pocket or 8th MS Team. The latest OVA series Gundam Unicorn is going to be the most visually impressive... but if you are completely unfamiliar with the setting you will be incredibly confused. Hell, if you know the setting you are still going to be confused because frankly Unicorn makes little sense. If you really like those, then you can start at the beginning with Mobile Suit Gundam and proceed to the dozens of sequels (Char's Counter Attack, Zeta, Double Zeta, I don't even know).

Gundam WING as mentioned before was super popular "over here" cause it was on Toonami but... it's pretty bad. The other newer series of note are Gundam SEED and Gundam 00.

And of course let's not forget G Gundam. Streetfighter with Culturally Insensitive Giant Robots. The only anime you are ever likely to see where both Windmill Gundam and a horse that has it's own giant robot that it pilots are things.


Ah, makes sense. In that case, I'll start watching Brotherhood soon. Is it repetitive with FMA in the beginning though?

Yes and no. There are enough differences at some points that if you try to skip you will probably get confused later.

[tensai_oni]

I shall, of course, look into Gundam, although I'm not really sure where to start.

If you have tolerance for 70s animation, then the first Mobile Suit Gundam from 1979. If you'd rather watch a new show, Gundam 00.


Ah, makes sense. In that case, I'll start watching Brotherhood soon. Is it repetitive with FMA in the beginning though?

It covers the same ground but as I said does it much more quickly. Also some plot points are different. So while you may get the justified feeling of having seen this before, I don't recommend skipping.

[MLai]

Do you really want to watch Gundam? As in, do you really love giant phlebotinum robots? It's such a huge universe with different stories and different writers, it becomes more a quest than a pasttime. I'd imagine it's easier to get into Naruto or One Piece, and those are hundreds of gigabytes worth of episodes..

how could I forget Fate/Zero. 7 mages summon mythical heroic servants to fight in a battle royale for a chance to make a wish. Any wish imaginable. Main character? Jaded Jason Bourne-like assassin. Backstabbing, covert urban war, magic ahoy. Best character? Alexander the Great, better known as "Broskander" because he's a total bro.
I wouldn't watch Fate/ Zero before watching Fate/ Stay Night. You don't have to watch FSN to understand FZ but you'll miss a lot of subtext; FZ is not a prequel for no reason.

Alternatively you could watch F/Z first, and then F/SN. You kind of run into the same problems doing that, as you would if you watched Star Wars Prequels first and then the Original Trilogy.

[tensai_oni]

Gundam series are usually 54 episodes per, sometimes less. You don't have to watch all of them, especially since most are self-contained stories and even set in their own continuities. Just watch a few crucial series to know what the franchise is about.

But do that only if you really want to watch Gundam. I personally think the whole franchise is nothing special. Okay, some OVAs and manga are really good, but the TV shows tend to drift towards okay-to-average. They're the most "mainstream" mecha anime in that you can judge if something is good or bad by comparing it to a recent Gundam show. Well, there are exceptions - SEED Destiny and Gundam AGE for example, everyone will tell you these two are really bad.

[Haruki-kun]

So any recommendations, clarifications on Code Geass (are things explained? Or do I just need to pay more attention?), or comments?

If I may ask: What kind of things do you usually like in other media? Fantasy? Science-fiction? Slice-of-life? Mystery?

I see anime as a medium more than a genre, and the sort of genre you like in books, movies, or television may color your interests in anime a lot. So what kinds of genres do you usually like?

On the same note: Favorite books? Favorite movies? If you can name a few titles we might be able to drop a few anime titles that match your tastes.

[Kitten Champion]

I tend to overdo teh animu recommendations because I'm used to anime forums where you're lucky to find something people haven't mentioned dozens of times before.

So this time, I'll just go with one.

*reaches into hat and picks out name*

Oh, here we go.

Slayers, an anime which blends a Western fantasy adventure story with Japanese comedy for one of the best parodies I've seen. It's also capable of some compelling stories when played straight, with a basic understanding of its tone to know when to go for laughs and when it's being serious. The main character and her supporting cast are well written, they have their comedic niches but they're left in such a way that they can expand beyond them. It's 90's anime, so the art is what you'd expect usually on the bright side of things and thankfully light on the fan-service which is openly mocked.

It's one of the better anime produced in the 90's and beyond.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I wouldn't watch Fate/ Zero before watching Fate/ Stay Night. You don't have to watch FSN to understand FZ but you'll miss a lot of subtext; FZ is not a prequel for no reason.

Alternatively you could watch F/Z first, and then F/SN. You kind of run into the same problems doing that, as you would if you watched Star Wars Prequels first and then the Original Trilogy.
While that's true if you want to get into Nasu, the problem with Fate Stay Night is that it's precisely the type of "if we work together, we can accomplish anything!" type anime, albeit with more serious drama and good character interaction. There's more focus on Shirou and Saber's relationship rather than on the actual war/battle royale going on. Heck, on some level it can be considered a harem (obviously it's not, but there are quite a few elements).

Fate/Zero is exactly the opposite: all the characters are absolutely fascinating, whereas in F/SN they're often stereotypes, even if subverted stereotypes. However, all the characterization is done in the context of their strength/weaknesses as servants/masters and how they go about accomplishing their goals.

[Togath]

One that I rarely see mentioned, but personally liked;
Mushishi
it's mostly episodic, but a very good one.. though it's in no way an action anime(it has a solemn but mysterious tone).
it also has a fairly unique art style.
Plot-wise; it follows the journeys of a man named Ginko, sort of a shinto priest crossed with a doctor, as he goes around helping villages who are having trouble with mysterious energy creatures called "mushi".

[HamHam]

Gundam series are usually 54 episodes per, sometimes less. You don't have to watch all of them, especially since most are self-contained stories and even set in their own continuities. Just watch a few crucial series to know what the franchise is about.

But do that only if you really want to watch Gundam. I personally think the whole franchise is nothing special. Okay, some OVAs and manga are really good, but the TV shows tend to drift towards okay-to-average. They're the most "mainstream" mecha anime in that you can judge if something is good or bad by comparing it to a recent Gundam show. Well, there are exceptions - SEED Destiny and Gundam AGE for example, everyone will tell you these two are really bad.

SEED Destiny was amazing.

[BWR]

nth-ing Ghost in the Shell. The movie Innocence was something of a let-down and didn't really fit in with the established art and design of the rest of it, but the first movie and the prequel series are excellent.

Personally, I have a fondness for Super Dimension Fortress Macross. The art is dated, but it works as a story. Macross Frontier was good, but the rest of the sequel series are forgettable. Avoid Macross 7 like the plague.

[Yora]

What exactly do you want to see? Kids cartoons? Comedy? Crime shows? Action shows? Mystery shows? Horror?

[Terraoblivion]

In general, I think that going for the classics is dangerous with anime for roughly the reasons the oni said earlier, it's more defined by what was available on Adult Swim back in the day than on the kind of wider consensus that is found with other media. More specifically, I consider Trigun one of the most overrated anime ever, because while it's a decent enough show longtime anime fans have a tendency to wax poetically about it as if it was the most brilliant work of art ever while it really isn't. That said, the ones who become classics tend to be among the better works from that period and not all the schlocky ovas based on sex and violence or all the forgettable kids' shows. The only 90s anime I've personally seen that I think strongly hold up today are Cowboy Bebop, which is just as much of a fun and accessible show as when it was new, and Neon Genesis Evangelion and Revolutionary Girl Utena for how influential they are and how impressive the direction is.

And from the recommendations that have been given so far, I strongly second Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya and Puella Magi Madoka Magica. These are quite likely the two most discussed shows of the last decade and Haruhi, the older of the two, has proven itself to be as influential as you would expect. I'd also say that Haruhi is one of the most clever shows out there, while Madoka is one of the most powerful emotional experiences I've watched in any medium, just like both are generally excellent in all aspects of production. For Haruhi, I'll have to disagree with the oni though and say that season 2 is pretty much required too, as long as you skip episode 3-8 of it due to them being a pretty obvious gimmick you'll understand when you watch episode 9, both because the stories are pretty good in their own right and because it's necessary to set up the movie which is the best part of the entire series.

Full Metal Panic! and Azumanga Daioh are two other recommendations I can strongly support. The former manages the balance between comedy and drama surprisingly well and manages to make characters that work great for both, while the latter is just that funny and quite likely the best pure gag series ever. At least I can't think of any I consider as funny.

Another recommendation is Chuunibyo Demo Koi Ga ****ai, which was done by pretty much the exact same people who did Haruhi, but is sort of an opposite version of the former. Even so it delivers a nice, touching story about growing up and dealing with crippling social problems, while also being absolutely hilarious much of the time. I especially like the ending, thanks to the clever resolution and understanding of things like identity and human behavior it comes to.

Finally, I'd recommend against watching Fate/Zero, other than having a massive budget with the great visuals that brings there just aren't many good aspects to it. With the exception of Waver and Rider, some bits of Saber and Iri's interactions and the black humor of Ryunosuke and Caster the characters tend towards kind of self-important, one-dimensional twits, just like the show takes itself entirely too seriously for such an ultimately silly premise. Especially Kiritsugu the main character is awful, displaying barely any personality and the few bits there are are wholly repulsive.

Even more crippling than the characters and self-importance, however, is the fact that as pretty as the show is, the direction is awful with dramatic scenes that both me and my girlfriend ended up laughing at due to how overblown and silly they were, a man whose arms are apparently magnetic given how he can block bullets with them without moving them and lots of conversation scenes where no real attempts at making it anything other than talking heads are made. That said, I think some of the problems stem from the writing being by Urobuchi at his hackiest, which is quite bad once you take some of his other works into account. There's a generally big tendency towards things happening because the plot says so with little care for the internal logic of the story.

Finally, it has the problem of being hideously sexist. Women in the show exist to be extensions of the male characters, suffer horribly and die sexualized deaths with Rin's, one of the main characters of Fate/Stay Night, cameo being the only female character to escape those fates and she still ends up with a broken family and in the care of one of the most evil characters in the show.

Really, all there is there is pretty art and if you want that there are other, better shows out there, so skip this one.

[Empedocles]

Alright, so a couple of people asked what sort of genre I'm looking for, and what besides anime I'm into, so I'll rattle off a few of my favorite movies, tv shows, and books.

Books: The Dark Tower series by Stephen King, the original Dragonlance books (Chronicles and Legends), The Dresden Files, Codex Alera, A Song of Ice and Fire, LotR, Hunger Games, and so on...pretty typical fantasy, really.

Movies: Star Wars, Watchmen, Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, The Avengers (and to a lesser extent, the various movies that fed into it), Dr. Horrible's Sing along Blog, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Hero, and...Im having trouble thinking of more stuff, but I hope you get the point.

TV Shows: Doctor Who (old and new) as well as Torchwood, Buffy, Firefly, Battlestar Galactica, Heroes (Season 1), and Star Trek. Outside of the fantasy genre, I enjoy The Office, Arrested Development, Weeds, The Increasingly Poor Decisions of Todd Margaret, and Archer.

The things probably most reflective of my overall taste in media are Doctor Who, Firefly, Heroes, and the Dark Tower Series.

[Yora]

In that case I think Ghost In the Shell might be worth a shot. The old movie is a bit more "artsy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yemnjIS7aVs)" than the series, but might give you a general impression. And the production value of the show is still incredibly high.
It's centered around the commander of a special forces unit, who got almost her entire body replaced by machines but is also extremely intelligent and as a result is almost superhuman and getting close to immortal. Japan and the rest of the world is in a really crappy state and she is mostly disconnected from humanity, but the unit still goes out hunting terrorists and corrupt politicans who make the world a lot worse than it already is. Quite often, they end up fighting other police and military units, which are paid by a different political faction in the government.
And there's sooo much details and cool stuff for robot and gun fans. :smallbiggrin:

If you did not read the incredible manga, I've heard the anime series of Monster is really good.

While I think Record of Lodoss war is rather chaotic and didn't age well, Rune Soldier is losely based on it and in my oppinion one of the funniest fantasy anime there is. It's basically a D&D parody and still one of my favorite anime, even though it was the first one I've seen.

Stepping onto very thin ice here, maybe you might be one of those people who could enjoy Neon Genesis Evangelion. It's about a depressed kid getting cought up in an invasion of Earth by gargantuan aliens, and who ends up being forced to fight them with an equally giant robot to prevent the end of all mankind. The action is fun, but the real plot is rather heavy stuff and difficult to untangle, so it's easy to see it as nothing but stupid and pretentious nonsense. Approach this one with care. While it's a classic, it's entirely justified to dislike it.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Monster (if this has turned into a recommendation thread lol) is superb. Dark, tangled, intriguing, well-paced. It has made me squeamish about nail clippers, and it just pulled an absolute hum-dinger plot turn that I should've seen coming but didn't. If you liked Death Note (and are enjoying Code Geass for the same reason), you'll like this--in my opinion, it's put together much better. It's also more grounded in its approach.

Madoka (recommended more than once above) is a must; I'll agree that it's quite possibly gonna be the show of the decade, and what it does is masterful on multiple levels. It's also very enjoyable, and the composer for the music is one of my favorites.

I'm told that Steins;Gate is absolutely masterful--and it's a show all about wibbley-wobbley timey-wimey, so...

[Eldan]

Monster is difficult. I tried loving it. The first few episodes were utterly fantastic, but it is the slowest thing I ever saw. I mean, you might think Space Odyssey is slow, but that's a racing movie compared to Monster.

[Haruki-kun]

Alright, so a couple of people asked what sort of genre I'm looking for, and what besides anime I'm into, so I'll rattle off a few of my favorite movies, tv shows, and books.

Books: The Dark Tower series by Stephen King, the original Dragonlance books (Chronicles and Legends), The Dresden Files, Codex Alera, A Song of Ice and Fire, LotR, Hunger Games, and so on...pretty typical fantasy, really.

Movies: Star Wars, Watchmen, Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, The Avengers (and to a lesser extent, the various movies that fed into it), Dr. Horrible's Sing along Blog, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Hero, and...Im having trouble thinking of more stuff, but I hope you get the point.

TV Shows: Doctor Who (old and new) as well as Torchwood, Buffy, Firefly, Battlestar Galactica, Heroes (Season 1), and Star Trek. Outside of the fantasy genre, I enjoy The Office, Arrested Development, Weeds, The Increasingly Poor Decisions of Todd Margaret, and Archer.

The things probably most reflective of my overall taste in media are Doctor Who, Firefly, Heroes, and the Dark Tower Series.

If you liked Firefly, check out Cowboy Bebop. It's another sort of Space Western, with a similar feel: Little underlying plotline, more of a monster-of-the-week thing.

I've also heard good things about Outlaw Star (slightly older than most stuff I watch) but I have never seen it, so I can't say for sure how good it is.

If you like the comedy genre, I would recommend two things. First, Gintama, a sort of fantasy/science-fiction/no fourth wall anime that I always found clever in its delivery. It starts out slowly, especially the first two episodes, which were not based on the manga AFAIK and were kind of meh, but it gets really good the farther you go into it. Second, I would recommend Azumanga Daioh, but I would tell you to steer clear of it when you're just starting to get into Anime, it's a little hard to get into if you're not used to the tropes.

I have never seen Buffy, but if you're overall into Supernatural fiction, I would recommend that you watch xxxHOLiC (sic). It follows the life of a young man who works for a witch in a shop that grants wishes. Fantastically written and developed. The art is hard to get used to, though.

Both of the following from the same author: Baccano!, if you have interest in alchemists combined with gangsters in 1930s New York (and a few other American locations), is a marvelous work. And Durarara!!, an urban fantasy, same author, similar concept, similar feel, completely different setting.

And if you feel like watching a movie or two, I'll drop a couple of titles:

Anything by Hayao Miyazaki (or Studio Ghibli), but my three favorites are, in descending order, Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle, and Princess Mononoke.

Akira is a critically-acclaimed film. I thought it was great, but it is one of those films that you have to watch at least once to have watched it, but a couple more times to fully understand it.

Paprika, a film somewhat similar in concept to Inception and Tokyo Godfathers, both by the late director Satoshi Kon.

Summer Wars, kind of a fun-to-watch movie for when you feel like watching something more light-hearted.

[Brewdude]

Ok...

Regarding Puella Magi Madoka Magica. It is the ASOIAF of magical girl anime in how in completely deconstructs the genre. But, like Game of Thrones, if you haven't watched other works in the genre, the deconstruction has somewhat less meaning.

Steins;Gate takes a few episodes to get rolling, but once it does, it owns your emotions.

Some solid good recent action? Sword Art Online. For the mmo players in all of us.

Creepy mystery with uncomfortable truths? From the New World.

THE heartwarming slice of life high school kid show? Pet Girl of Sakara Hall. There are so many of these, but this one will resonate with anyone in their junior or senior year of high school or college.

Economics and trade in 15th century europe? Spice and Wolf. Come on. It's more interesting than it sounds.

Oh, And Tiger and Bunny. Finally an anime hero who is a single father over 40. Also over the top in your face absurd.

[Eldan]

If you like martial arts (you listed Hero and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon), I just finished watching Seirei no Moribito, which has the best fights I've ever seen in an Anime. Now, not good as in spectacular, most of the time. They are quite low-key. But very well made. It also has supernatural elements, but they only show up in a few episodes, and before the finale, they are quite low-key as well.

[Yora]

I want to get around watching that one for ages. I really like the anime by Production I.G. They also did GitS, which looks just as gorgeous.
And spears are never given enough love in fantasy.

[Eldan]

That too, yes. It has a few fantastic spear fights. Especially in a few of the flashbacks, towards the end, where everyone has spears.

[Terraoblivion]

I personally watched Azumanga Daioh as one of my first two anime, the other was Neon Genesis Evangelion, and I honestly don't think there was a single even slightly significant thing I missed the first time around. There are barely any references, few bits tying heavily into pieces of Japanese culture that aren't easy to grasp on their own and most of the jokes are ones that could work more or less anywhere. Honestly, I'd personally rank it as one of the most accessible anime for newcomers.

Also, talking about the deconstruction in Madoka is not only selling the show short as it does a lot more than that, it also misses the heart of the story. It is not about magical girls, it just uses the trappings and one bit of the terminology. It is about growing up, grim realities, being honest with yourself and whether or not determination and daring to wish pays off. None of that really has anything to do with magical girls and selling it as if it was about doing stuff with the magical girl genre makes it sound both more esoteric and less interesting than it really is.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Oh, And Tiger and Bunny. Finally an anime hero who is a single father over 40. Also over the top in your face absurd.

Great series. The mix of super hero and buddy cop show tropes works really well.



One that I rarely see mentioned, but personally liked;
Mushishi
it's mostly episodic, but a very good one.. though it's in no way an action anime(it has a solemn but mysterious tone).
it also has a fairly unique art style.
Plot-wise; it follows the journeys of a man named Ginko, sort of a shinto priest crossed with a doctor, as he goes around helping villages who are having trouble with mysterious energy creatures called "mushi".

Cannot endorse this series enough. Wonderful visuals and excellent music to boot.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Monster is difficult. I tried loving it. The first few episodes were utterly fantastic, but it is the slowest thing I ever saw. I mean, you might think Space Odyssey is slow, but that's a racing movie compared to Monster.
The comparison I'd make is to Alfred Hitchcock's work. Monster is build-build-build-build-WHAM, repeated in cycles. I've found it best when you watch 4-5 episodes at a time.

Also, TerraOblivion is spot-on about Madoka.

[zorenathres]

I've also heard good things about Outlaw Star (slightly older than most stuff I watch) but I have never seen it, so I can't say for sure how good it is.


well, compared to Bebop, watch Bebop...

its not that bad, but its basically a space opera, & Bebop is "Harder" (as in Hard space tech, harder, not completely HARD, hehe). A lot more goofy characters & moments, the soundtrack is like you are watching something meant for kids, & the cheesy intro... I dunno, I own it but never actually get around to watching it. I like the plot (seeking the galactic leyline, in a stolen prototype, running from space pirates), but the individual episodes can sometimes be a chore to watch until it gets near the end.

Maybe I'm too hard on Outlaw Star, its just more lighthearted than what I prefer to watch, & I would put in the same category as Trigun, its "popular" (Outlaw Star was on Adult Swim too), but not for the right reasons.

Bebop I can still watch today, grab any random episode & sit back, you just can't do this with Outlaw Star... IMO


Afro Samurai is another I would not recommend, got it, never watch it, & if I do, I am almost always skipping everything but the first & last episode (as Justice & the backgrounds are really the only parts of the series that I enjoyed), IMO, Samuel Jackson just "goes through the motions" with this anime & its sequal (even worse, IMO).


What I might recommend (though lightly), the last anime I picked up was Ergo Proxy & its not bad... It takes a long time to get moving, the pacing is pretty bad (a lot of quiet moments), but its a mystery show in a post-apocalyptic setting, so that's expected. I wont go defending it or praising it, just that its watchable.


After reading my post it looks like I might be overly critical of some Anime, but I am just not a fan of the more childish/ teenage stuff & its getting harder to find stuff that I enjoy watching. Anyway, YMMV, as I am learning.

[Terraoblivion]

Wouldn't it get easier rather than harder to avoid child or teen-oriented stuff? I mean, given how anime seems to increasingly target an adult audience and do it without adult meaning gore, tits and ass, you'd think that more mature fare was getting easier, rather than harder to find.

[zorenathres]

well you would think it gets easier, but I am not anime expert, when I look for a new series I must not be doing it right, as I have little to go on but the IMDB & other sites (I like using the forums here, but tend to avoid others so I rarely get good recommendations for Anime).

Not to mention that I find myself increasingly disinterested in most new Anime out there, but I am probably the least exposed to the new stuff out there, of anyone here. I guess the last anime series that I watched turned me off, Technolyze or whatever just kinda made me give up on looking through the thousands of series out there to find one worth watching.

[Terraoblivion]

Trying to watch even the first episode of everything that comes out seems like a mad proposition. I know a lot of people do, but I really can't figure out how they manage it. I mostly keep track of what gets buzz and what sounds interesting and I don't think there has been any season where I've tried watching more than five shows and usually it's around 0-2.

However, talking recent shows, I'd recommend Chuunibyo and Bodacious Space Pirates as relatively smart, mature newer shows. The former seems like a zany comedy at first, but it handles the theme of growing up, finding your identity and learning how to handle trauma more maturely than most stuff. The latter just puts in a lot of effort in creating rounded, believable characters who act like the smart, competent people they're supposed to be.

Of shows that have been discussed here before, I'd also say that Madoka is pretty mature in that it chooses not to dwell on the gruesome details of the story, but instead letting the knowledge of what is going on and empathy with the characters do the work. It also hits a nice balance in handling its themes, neither hitting immaturity naiveté or immature cynicism and emphasizing thinking things through as central.

And Spice and Wolf is pretty much the go-to show for smart, mature writing. It's got a very detailed and accurate look at medieval economics as its base and a romance between two smart adults on top of it. It also does the romance based on shared respect, interests and people who are defined independently of each other.

[Prime32]

On some of the suggestions made so far:

FMA: Brotherhood has better raw material to work with than the original anime, but it's not as good at adapting it - it misses out on the first anime's emotional torque without really capturing the manga's energy. The manga tells the same story with more detail and fewer jarring shifts in tone. Also, don't be tempted to start "at the point where the first anime diverged" - there are differences from the beginning, including some of the most fundamental assumptions of the setting, even if they might not be obvious at first.

Fate/Zero... is a prequel. There are a lot of mysteries in Fate/stay night which you uncover with the characters, but FZ assumes you know the answers already. In other words, FZ will ruin your ability to enjoy FSN if you watch it first. Don't watch the FSN anime either - it's far from bad, but it covers only the first third of the story from the visual novel, and the weakest one at that. Read the original, or at least a Let's Play (http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/).


I second Steins;Gate and Chuunibyou Demo Koi ga ****ai! (just call it Chuu2 if you can't remember all that :smalltongue:)

[Terraoblivion]

Honestly, the best way to experience anything Fate/X related is to listen to people talk about the series and Nasu's other stuff for a while, watch Carnival Phantasm and just ignoring the rest from there.

[zorenathres]

did you mean Chuunibyou demo Koi ga ****ai? cause several conflicting results came up... ok, ninja'd, although I am not typically a fan of anime featuring schoolkids, I will look deeper into this.

& seeing as how I still have a weakness for space pirates (why else would I oen Outlaw Star?), Bodacious Space Pirates, I will be checking this out, thank you for the recommendation!

[Terraoblivion]

Chuunibyou is about schoolkids, yeah, but it really couldn't be about anybody else. It would seem ridiculous if it was about college students and even more so if it was about working adults past college. It is, however, not about being nostalgic for high school or presenting high school as an innocent time. It's about growing up and balancing wonder with realism, as well as about overcoming trauma. It also ends with a surprisingly clever use of 90s academic theory, which is thankfully not used to clobber the audience over the head to prove how smart the writer is.

[Haruki-kun]

I personally watched Azumanga Daioh as one of my first two anime, the other was Neon Genesis Evangelion, and I honestly don't think there was a single even slightly significant thing I missed the first time around. There are barely any references, few bits tying heavily into pieces of Japanese culture that aren't easy to grasp on their own and most of the jokes are ones that could work more or less anywhere. Honestly, I'd personally rank it as one of the most accessible anime for newcomers.

Well, it's not hard to UNDERSTAND, but if you're not used to Anime style it might put people off. I guess it's not the worst for a little after entry-level.


Wouldn't it get easier rather than harder to avoid child or teen-oriented stuff?

Not always, because the most heavily marketed shows are for teens and kids (Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Fairy Tail, etc.) And a lot of older fans watch them anyway, especially when closer to entry-level. You have to be actively searching to find the more mature anime stuff, and talking to more experienced fans.

Even the most hardcore anime fans know the "popular" shows, like the ones mentioned above, but a selected few know the "underground" ones.

[Terraoblivion]

I'm not entirely sure how Azumanga Daioh differs significantly from western gag comedies other than visual differences, to be honest. Other than maybe being a bit more grounded, while still being far too fast paced and crazy to be a sitcom.

And how is that difference from the past? I mean, the first things a fan in the 90s was likely to run into was DBZ and Sailor Moon and then during the Adult Swim era whatever was big was whatever was on Adult Swim, much of which wasn't exactly high minded, mature fare either. The difference is that today shows that are more mature are more common and information is more readily available thanks to how widespread the internet is.

[Don Julio Anejo]

And spears are never given enough love in fantasy.
Spears are amazing weapons for a formation to use, especially if you want to mass-drill a bunch of conscript peasants instead of training a swordsman from scratch, but they're pretty sucky as individual weapons. Fantasy focuses on small groups of highly skilled individuals, and the only place for a spear in such a group would be to take out a horseman. Otherwise, something like a sword or an axe is almost always better.

[HamHam]

I'm not entirely sure how Azumanga Daioh differs significantly from western gag comedies other than visual differences, to be honest. Other than maybe being a bit more grounded, while still being far too fast paced and crazy to be a sitcom.

There are quite a few cultural jokes which is good because it's informative to someone who doesn't already know it but if you have to explain the joke, it's not funny.

Also Azumanga Daioh has a bizarre sense of comedic timing.

[zorenathres]

getting back to some recommendations for the OP:

Not sure how they rate on other people's lists, but these are some that I regard as "must see" after looking through my collection not yet mentioned,

Desert Punk: (AKA Sunabuzou?): Post-Apocalyptic fun in the desert, with an actually watchable english dub, with its own unique humor separate from the japanese version (its almost like watching two alternate shows of the same character), I bought the box set of 26 ep's for 25 bucks at Fry's.

Vision of Escaflowne: Not sure about the film as I have yet to see it, but the setting & characters actually intrigued me & I once made a homebrew setting for that nonsense... long long ago.

Tekkonkinkreet: a movie not a show, but Its on this list because it really made an impact, the music, composition, & animation is top quality & its about two street kids, which is much more relatable for me than japanese school kids. 10+ rating in my book.

Iria, The Zeiram Animation: (The animated series in a unique space/ fantasy setting): Though only 6 episodes, this was very re-watchable in retrospect over the years, the animation might look a little outdated, but IMO this is way more entertaining than shows like Outlaw Star & Trigun.

[MLai]

Books: The Dark Tower series by Stephen King, the original Dragonlance books (Chronicles and Legends), The Dresden Files, Codex Alera, A Song of Ice and Fire, LotR, Hunger Games, and so on...pretty typical fantasy, really.

Movies: Star Wars, Watchmen, Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, The Avengers (and to a lesser extent, the various movies that fed into it), Dr. Horrible's Sing along Blog, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Hero, and...Im having trouble thinking of more stuff, but I hope you get the point.

TV Shows: Doctor Who (old and new) as well as Torchwood, Buffy, Firefly, Battlestar Galactica, Heroes (Season 1), and Star Trek. Outside of the fantasy genre, I enjoy The Office, Arrested Development, Weeds, The Increasingly Poor Decisions of Todd Margaret, and Archer.

The things probably most reflective of my overall taste in media are Doctor Who, Firefly, Heroes, and the Dark Tower Series.
Based on what you typed above, I would say you should watch Fate Stay Night, and then Fate Zero. The universe has lots of parallels with the works you like, including Dark Tower, Hunger Games, Crouching Tiger, Hero, Heroes, Buffy, and lol Archer. FZ is no worse than many of your favorite things you listed up there, while it has the highest TV animation production budget you will have ever seen in your life.
Sorry but don't listen to ppl who tell you not to watch FSN, and instead read the old Japanese-localized visual novel computer game, or watch a Let's Play. That is being unrealistic, and the only guarantee is it ruins your ability to enjoy the anime.
And the absolute worst thing you can do is just watch Carnival Phantasm, or just read about ppl's musings on Nasu-verse in forums. You will understand nothing of CP if you don't watch/read the other animes/games/books first. And the only thing ppl talk about on forums are AD&D-like stats and spells of Nasu-verse, which is frankly the most boring and stupid part of the verse. Like midichlorians.
I absolutely loved FSN. I really liked FZ. I hate Nasu-verse with a passion.

Since you are not averse to British TV sensibilities, I'd also say you should try Wakfu, a French fantasy anime series. Here's a clip for you to check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2JrWJfdoqk

Bodacious Space Pirates is like My Little Pony Equestria Girls, in space. I'm completely serious. And that was a compliment.

Oh, you like martial arts? Tell me, have you played or do you like fighting games? Because they have animes.
You like serious-ninjas and super-samurai? Do you want more? Because they have animes. LOTS of (great) animes.

Spears are amazing weapons for a formation to use, especially if you want to mass-drill a bunch of conscript peasants instead of training a swordsman from scratch, but they're pretty sucky as individual weapons. Fantasy focuses on small groups of highly skilled individuals, and the only place for a spear in such a group would be to take out a horseman. Otherwise, something like a sword or an axe is almost always better.
In Europe, maybe, with those long heavy clumsy polearms.
The spear is tied with the sword as the premier personal martial arts weapon in Asia. The Chinese term for weapons is "sword & spear."

[Metahuman1]

Just a quick pop in:

If you don't my historical fiction that doesn't mind showing the fact that there are large swaths of history that are in fact R rated, I recommend Vagabond. It's a somewhat larger then life (hence historical fiction.) but still generally physically possible account of the life of Miyamoto Musashi, author of the book of five rings and his path to mastery of the martial arts and to achieving the enlightenment that brought him to write the book of five rings.

[123456789blaaa]

Honestly, the best way to experience anything Fate/X related is to listen to people talk about the series and Nasu's other stuff for a while, watch Carnival Phantasm and just ignoring the rest from there.

So...are you saying the series and Nasu's other stuff is bad? :smallconfused:.

[Yora]

There are quite a few cultural jokes which is good because it's informative to someone who doesn't already know it but if you have to explain the joke, it's not funny.

Also Azumanga Daioh has a bizarre sense of comedic timing.

I LOVE Azumanga Daioh! It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
And the anime does very well at recreating the long pauses from the manga. Usually a joke becomes boring if you drag it out too long. Azumanga Daioh keeps dragging it out to two or three times that much and it becomes hilarious. (It's much better than it sounds!)

I love Azumas humor. It's at the same time blatant slapstick and quite subtle and intelligent.

Spears are amazing weapons for a formation to use, especially if you want to mass-drill a bunch of conscript peasants instead of training a swordsman from scratch, but they're pretty sucky as individual weapons. Fantasy focuses on small groups of highly skilled individuals, and the only place for a spear in such a group would be to take out a horseman. Otherwise, something like a sword or an axe is almost always better.
No, that's what fantasy writers who love swords make everyone falsely belive. A spear is an amazing weapon in 1 on 1 fighting. Samurai carried their swords as symbols of their station, for duels, and as a weapon you can easily carry around in town or in the castle. For battle, spear was the weapon of choice for centuries.

[Tengu_temp]

So...are you saying the series and Nasu's other stuff is bad? :smallconfused:.

Nasu's great at making memorable characters, but his storytelling and world-building are horrible. Fate/Stay Night put me off urban fantasy for a few years.

[Eldan]

No, that's what fantasy writers who love swords make everyone falsely belive. A spear is an amazing weapon in 1 on 1 fighting. Samurai carried their swords as symbols of their station, for duels, and as a weapon you can easily carry around in town or in the castle. For battle, spear was the weapon of choice for centuries.

I know very little about actual fighting with polearms or swords. But I think I'd rather have the weapon that allows me to place my meaty bits a bit farther away from the enemy and his pointy bits.

[Komodo]

Just wanting to take a moment to mention a few titles that haven't been mentioned yet...

Wolf's Rain: I freely admit that this one isn't for everyone. But I was surprised by how much I liked it, in fact, it's probably my favorite after Death Note. The story concerns four wolves that are capable of making people see them as fellow humans via magic or something who are searching for a vaguely-defined "paradise" as the world slowly comes to an end while being aided by a young enigmatic girl who is apparently also a flower. Now, I should warn that, without trying to spoil, this one does tend to dip into tragedy, especially toward the end. Also, the ending is rather confusing. That said, I still look back on this one with extreme fondness. The characters were memorable, the setting was interesting, the soundtrack was downright awesome, and any questions I'm left with I'm happy enough to overlook for my love of its good points.

Air: Don't even bother with this one unless you're in the mood for a tragedy. While not as blatant as, say, Grave of the Fireflies, this one does like to grab for the heartstrings. I love how it isn't just tragedy, though. It's filled with lighthearted moments and interesting lore. I loved this one.

Grave of the Fireflies: Yeah, remember how I said above that Air has lighthearted moments scattered throughout? Not quite so much, here. In this look at WWII from a child's perspective, the opening scene shows the main character dying in a train station, and then goes back to show how this point was reached. He had a little sister, and yes, what you think happens does happen, except worse. Still, if you want a no-holds-barred look at the horrors of war without even needing blood and guns, look no farther.

[MLai]

Ha, I remember Wolf's Rain as having an interesting, but realistic subversion: the least physically attractive, and least emo, guy out of the 5-man band gets the hot girl.

Also memorable for having a "The Kid" that I not only do not find annoying, but freakin' love.

[Terraoblivion]

So...are you saying the series and Nasu's other stuff is bad? :smallconfused:.

That is indeed what I'm saying. Nasu can create interesting characters, though he's hit and miss with them and better at female characters from what I've seen, but his prose is terrible and his plotting is a sort of weird trainwreck of generic harem anime, bad porn and stupid grimdark nonsense crashing together.

Also, MLai, what I described was how I approached it and I enjoyed Carnival Phantasm far more than my later attempts at anything Nasu-related. So it's clearly possible, although I'll admit that I've never seen anybody talk about the D&D stats and such, but rather about more substantial aspects of his work.

And, Yora, you do know that the spear is one of the four weapons of kung-fu, right? As in a major weapon used in one of the major styles of martial arts in Asia. Japan also does have a spear-fighting tradition that is, among other things, shown in Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress and quite likely other chanbara movies as well.

[HamHam]

Grave of the Fireflies:

Oh god why would you inflict that on someone. Do you want to be depressed for like a week? Then watch Grave of the Fireflies. Otherwise run. Run and don't look back.

[Komodo]

Oh god why would you inflict that on someone. Do you want to be depressed for like a week? Then watch Grave of the Fireflies. Otherwise run. Run and don't look back.

Hey, I gave fair warning. But your name reminded me of something: you want a happy anime? Then watch Porco Rosso. The story: A pig gets into plane-fights. In my opinion, one of Studio Ghibli's most underrated films. (for comparison, this is coming from a guy who didn't like Howl's Moving Castle).

Ooh! I can't forget...The Cat Returns! God, I loved that one! A girl who saves a cat's life suddenl gets whisked away to a cat-themed Wonderland to marry the Prince of Cats as her reward! If younger-leaning shows are your thing at all, this one won't disappoint.

There. Hopefully the injection of happy animes will recompense my recommendation of sad ones. :smallbiggrin:

[MLai]

That is indeed what I'm saying. Nasu can create interesting characters, though he's hit and miss with them and better at female characters from what I've seen, but his prose is terrible and his plotting is a sort of weird trainwreck of generic harem anime, bad porn and stupid grimdark nonsense crashing together.9
Is it that bad? I just thought it's due to me reading a fan-translation (FSN VN), so I forgave all the prose weirdness.

MLai, what I described was how I approached it and I enjoyed Carnival Phantasm far more than my later attempts at anything Nasu-related.
Don't see how you could have. I watched FSN, FZ, Tsukihime animes, and read Mirror_Moon forums before I ever watched CP, and I still only "got" about 50-75% of it. That anime was ALL in-jokes.

although I'll admit that I've never seen anybody talk about the D&D stats and such, but rather about more substantial aspects of his work.
All I ever read was what Nasu vampires were like (the Super Saiyans of Nasu-verse, apparently), WTF the throne of heroes is (and all the rest of that convoluted theology), and how Nasu-magic works. Almost sucked dry all the post-FSN afterglow I was basking in.

I view the Grail War the same way I view Highlander 1: I do not want it explained. You explain it you only ruin it.

[endoperez]

And, Yora, you do know that the spear is one of the four weapons of kung-fu, right? As in a major weapon used in one of the major styles of martial arts in Asia.

What you said is almost correct, but the details are off just enough that it becomes quite meaningless.

Spear is one of the 4 major weapons of Chinese martial arts, and is taught in many kung fu styles, some of which are wide-spread in Asia. There are hundreds of kung fu styles which teach many more than four weapons. However, I'd bet that most of the kung fu styles that teach weapons at all include either spear or staff in their curriculum.

I'm not an expert, but I do agree that a spear doesn't automatically lose against a sword. Having longer reach is very, very important, and even if the swordsman comes close, the spear's haft can still be used to block, parry and even strike. Range is so important that even a simple two-handed staff has 'vantage against a sword (according to one George Silver), and on the other hand, Japanese writers such as Miyamoto Musashi say that spears (and halberds, but they're more defensive) are only inappopriate indoors and for taking prisoners. They are essentially weapons for the field. (http://www.bookoffiverings.com/EarthBook.htm)

[GloatingSwine]

Finally, it has the problem of being hideously sexist. Women in the show exist to be extensions of the male characters, suffer horribly and die sexualized deaths with Rin's, one of the main characters of Fate/Stay Night, cameo being the only female character to escape those fates and she still ends up with a broken family and in the care of one of the most evil characters in the show.



It's worth remembering that Fate/Stay Night was originally a pornographic video game.

[Terraoblivion]

What does that have to do with sexism in Fate/Zero? Especially since it is not really porny sexism, but more all the sexist tools in the hackwriter's tool set. F/SN is kinda sexist too, but from what I know actually less so than Fate/Zero and the ways it is are more in line with genre conventions for what it is.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Empedocles, how's the show-watching been going for you? I know you mentioned you were about 20% of the way through Code Geass.

[123456789blaaa]

That is indeed what I'm saying. Nasu can create interesting characters, though he's hit and miss with them and better at female characters from what I've seen, but his prose is terrible and his plotting is a sort of weird trainwreck of generic harem anime, bad porn and stupid grimdark nonsense crashing together.
<snip>

Well yeah, what you say is all true. I think what you're missing however is that trainwrecks can be thoroughly enjoyable.

For example, you say "bad porn", I say hilarious porn. How? How could someone think it was a good idea to compare genitals to molluscs in a sex scene? In what parallel universe-I mean wut. I enjoyed reading them because of the anticipation of what insane thing was going to be written next.

And unlike movies like Battlefield Earth, there are some good things in Nasu's works. You half enjoy them because of stuff you like that's in them and half enjoy them because of what a trainwreck they are.

The prose can be terrible and horribly bloated yes but I think the writing can paint scenes very well when the Nasu-babble stops. For example, that bit in Tsukihime when Shiki is lying on the bed and sees that his arm has just fallen off. Or in that creepy dream in FSN when Shirou has sex with Rider disguised as Rin. I think that's one of the only times when a sex scene is kind of horrible instead of funny. The action scenes can also be pretty cool.

I also like some of the concepts and philosophies that are presented. I've seen this opinion echoed on other forums as well. Like when Shiki talks about how great it is to just live life. Or that fantastic conversation when Shiki is (maybe) dreaming and talks with Roa (probably Roa).

The worldbuilding is both a strength and a weakness. A weakness in that it's pretty convoluted and clashing (though IME that's kind of par for the course in Japanese fantasy). However it's also quite complex and interesting. For me and some other people interested in Nasu's works, speculating and trying to figure out how everything fits together is quite fun.

And as mentioned by you: the characters. In the words a member from another forum: "The action, the philosophy, the world-concepts can range from incredible and awesome and thought-provoking at their heights to cheesy, ass-pulled, and pure drivel on the other." However, the characters are great. I don't think I dislike a single one (well, I don't care about the undeveloped ones but I don't dislike them). This is of course opinion-you mentioned only liking some-but I've seen this opinion echoed quite a lot as well. The way Nasu puts a new spin on overused concepts is refreshing. Kotomine for example. The pure evil villan has been done so many times but the way Kotomine is presented and developed just makes him very interesting. Rin is also another character like that. I usually find tsundere characters groan-worthy but I like Rin because you tsundereness is rooted in a believable psychology. From a person on another forum: "the tension between the fact that she's a genuinely "good" person, sympathetic to others, with a deep capacity to love, etc., and the way she's not only been raised in the twisted morality of a Magus family but also in trying to live up to the memory of her father whom she loved (and who looks better by the day when she's raised by Kotomine :smallbiggrin: ) and wants to fulfill his hopes.".

Now Type-Moon isn't for everyone. It has a ton of problems and even its good stuff can be bad. However, I do think that you shouldn't direct people away from it. At least let them read some of the works and decide for themselves. While I'm not a die-hard fan of Type-Moon, I do think my life would be a little bit worse for having not experienced their works.

[Velaryon]

So, after enjoying enough manga in my life for it to be worth it, I'm starting to get into anime in earnest, watching what seem to generally be considered classic, or "must see" series. I'm just going to share a few of my initial reactions, ask a few questions, and then, of course, ask for recommendations. If there's a good series available on Netflix that you'd recommend, please do so!

I used to be in a somewhat similar situation to you. Exposure to a couple anime series that I particularly loathed turned me off the entire medium for many years, and only about two years ago did I start checking them out again. As a result I missed out on many of those that are considered classics, and haven't gotten around to tracking them all down yet.


Trigun: Trigun is one of the most highly recommended anime I've seen, but so far, it's disappointed me. It's just not...exciting enough. I'm about 10 episodes in, and besides the two episodes with B.D. Neon, nothing has really made me care much. Wolfwood is relatively interesting, but if things don't pick up soon I don't think Ill finish it.

This is one I did go back and watch. I found that it dragged horribly in the early parts, but once Wolfwood became a regular part of the show it improved noticeably. Not only did he become my favorite character pretty much instantly, but he changed the dynamics between the other characters which made them more enjoyable as well. If you got as far as Wolfwood fully joining the cast and still don't enjoy the show, then you should probably stop.



I have never seen Buffy, but if you're overall into Supernatural fiction, I would recommend that you watch xxxHOLiC (sic). It follows the life of a young man who works for a witch in a shop that grants wishes. Fantastically written and developed. The art is hard to get used to, though.

If you can get past the fact that the main character Watanuki is perhaps the only character in all of fiction that manages to out-whine both Anakin Skywalker and Connor from Angel, and that his love interest Himawari is more of a blank-slate personality than Bella from Twilight, then xxxHolic does have some enjoyable qualities. The premise of the show is interesting, Yuuko is downright awesome, and the art style is nice after you get used to it. I definitely think this show is not for everyone, but if you can forgive a couple things then it's a fun watch.


And now for my own few recommendations:

You really can't go wrong with Samurai 7. It's sort of a steampunk adaptation of the classic film Seven Samurai, and it's pretty well executed. It's still set in medieval Japan, but there are robot samurai in addition to humans and a fair amount of vehicles and stuff.

Samurai Champloo is another interesting one. In short, a young girl gets two samurai to accompany on her journey searching for someone, and their vastly different personalities bounce off of each other. The animation is excellent, the action and dialogue are good, the plot actually makes sense, and the use of hip hop music here and there gives the show a truly unique feel in my experience.

Durarara!! is an interesting one. It's a modern, urban setting with a whole ton of characters, in which some some supernatural elements (a man with incredible super strength) are accepted without thought and others (a Celtic dullahan looking for her missing head) are looked at as unusual. There are a whole lot of characters to follow and honestly keeping them all straight is a little confusing, but their stories all eventually weave together. I found it all to be pretty well written and acted, and though it's very unlike other anime that I've seen I found it completely engrossing.

Highschool of the Dead is hit and miss. It's a zombie apocalypse story with gratuitous amounts of fanservice (bouncing chests and panty shots, etc.). If neither of those two facts rules this one out for you, then I recommend looking into it. The characters are well-developed, the narrative is pretty good, and the animation is excellent as well.

And last but not least, I want to give a little mention to School Rumble. I can't give a good reason why you should check this out - it's a high school romantic comedy anime which is well outside most of the interests you've listed - but my tastes in other media are similar to yours and this is my favorite anime of all time. You should be able to tell within one or two episodes whether you will enjoy the show, though, so why not give it a try?

[Moak]

Oh god why would you inflict that on someone. Do you want to be depressed for like a week? Then watch Grave of the Fireflies. Otherwise run. Run and don't look back.

I second this A LOT. Grave of the Fireflies is magnific, but sad. Truly sad.

I Nth Ghost In the Shell, in order: first movie -> Stand Alone Complex -> Stand Alone Complex: the 2nd Gig. The other movies, only if you like the rest. Even if the first movie doesn't "get you", try SAC, at least 3-4 episodes. They change rythm and are less mind-blowing. It flows "smoothly" than the movie.

Full Metal Panic is simply VERY good. EXPECIALLY if, immediatly after the 1st series, you look FMP:FUMOFFU.

Neon Genesis Evangelion is very intresting. I haven't seen the Rebuilds, so, Playgrounders, what's better for him? Original series or the rebuild?

Basilisk is a little bit "fantasy" with the characterization. But is good. Feudal Japan, war between Ninja Clans... with a lot of political background: the war explode when both the Clans are working to a peace treatment.

[Yora]

While I frequently read that the series and the movies of GitS are in different continuities, they actually all fit very well together chronologically.
But I would also start with the first movie because that one helps learning a lot about the depths of the characters that Stand Alone Complex just glances over in favor for more awesome action. I think it makes one appreciate the series even more when one knows that the characters are not just big damn action heroes. It's a bit like Star Wars, it just works out so much better if you watch them in the order that the writers created them and the fans first got to see them.

The second movie, Innocence, is also amazing, and by far the most artistic one. That one is worth watching just for the visuals and the style, even if one doesn't care too much about GitS otherwise.
But I would stay away from Solid State Society. That one seems like a late cash in, that has pretty action scenes, but does not contribute anything to the story, and actually makes some statements that try to reverse the most intelligent parts of the movie. (As if they thought they were too confusing for simple fans who require a normal action movie ending.)

With NGE, I am a big fan of the original version. I am one of the very few people who actually liked the massive mindscrew ending with all its chaos and confusion. Personally, I think making it easier to understand what's going on takes away from the magic.
But if you don't tend to get super exited about the endings of Blade Runner and Inception, then maybe one of the never versions might be better. :smallwink:

[Eldan]

Strange. I always felt the opposite. With the exception of the major herself, no one really seemed to get much character in the first movie, while the series tried to devote at least one episode and often more to everyone on the team and their backstory.

I also love Inception and Blade Runner. I love Philip K. ****'s novels even more. And I can't stand Evangelion. At least not without End of Evangelion. That movie made the series right again.

[Kitten Champion]

The Ghost in the Shell movie was more about the concept and symbolism than the characters. I think there was even an effort to make the characters seem less sympathetic and more alien in order to better exemplify the feminist and existentialist themes.

As to NGE, I loved the television ending of Evangelion, perhaps because it's the most invasive and personal work I've seen in anime.

[Eldan]

Ghost in the Shell had feminist themes? I mean, sure, it had a strong female protagonist, but surely there's more to it than that?

[zorenathres]

in the GITS manga, they were deliberately vague as to the major's original gender, & hinted that she may not even know herself. Not to mention the manga ended with her occupying a "male" body taken from thieves.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Neon Genesis Evangelion is very intresting. I haven't seen the Rebuilds, so, Playgrounders, what's better for him? Original series or the rebuild?

Both. The original is basically a gritty psychological drama cleverly hiding in the corpse of a mecha sci-fi show, although it takes some time for the true nature of the show to reveal itself. It's also pretty mind-screwy towards the end, although not as much as the hype would tell you. Definitely watch End of Evangelion after you're done with the show.

Rebuild is sort of the same thing, but it's the condensed version with some more popcorn moments added. Twin Peaks, but Agent Cooper carries a katana and gets into a swordfight with BOB. It's also set-up to subvert audience expectations, so I'd definitely watch the original show first.

I would also second Baccano (http://www.hulu.com/baccano) and Durarara (http://www.hulu.com/durarara). You can find both of them on Hulu, with the links above, if you're an American. Baccano has a fantastic English dub, so I'd recommend you watch that.

[Kitten Champion]

Ghost in the Shell had feminist themes? I mean, sure, it had a strong female protagonist, but surely there's more to it than that?

Ask yourself why you think Motoko Kusanagi is a woman, and then consider the implications.

[Winter_Wolf]

I might be digging back into the stone age of anime, but two series that I think have merit (and are widely apart in tone and style) are Kimegure Orange Road and G.T.O. (Great Teacher Onizuka).

I'm also a sub/original language snob, and I have a little background in Asian culture in general and Japanese in particular, so I could afford the luxury of avoiding dubs of anything. Several jokes just fail in translation and one often ends up with weird editing choices when marketing to non-Japanese. I bring this up because both of the series I mentioned kind of require at least a little understanding of what's "normal" from a Japanese cultural perspective.

Now if you just want a little OVA action (kind of like a mini-series) and you're okay with complete WTF, Koko wa Greenwood (Here is Greenwood) has that, but it's still what I'd consider "watchable".

I don't know your access to things like an anime club, but I was exposed to many many different anime through the club at my college when I was in school: Macross Plus, Orguss, Kishin Corps come to mind. There were a lot of misses, too, and I can't recall them off the top of my head.

Oh wait, I remember Fushigi Yuugi as a good series (and it's freaking long).

[Moak]

While I frequently read that the series and the movies of GitS are in different continuities, they actually all fit very well together chronologically.

Are really in different continuity? Never seen that. Even reading the manga, everything flows incredibly well together.



The second movie, Innocence, is also amazing, and by far the most artistic one. That one is worth watching just for the visuals and the style, even if one doesn't care too much about GitS otherwise.
But I would stay away from Solid State Society. That one seems like a late cash in, that has pretty action scenes, but does not contribute anything to the story, and actually makes some statements that try to reverse the most intelligent parts of the movie. (As if they thought they were too confusing for simple fans who require a normal action movie ending.).

Now I'm very curious about Innocence. I've avoided it after some "meh" comment of a friend of mine, but perhaps he was speaking about SSS (he said something alike you said, about throwing the baby with the bathwater).



With NGE, I am a big fan of the original version. I am one of the very few people who actually liked the massive mindscrew ending with all its chaos and confusion. Personally, I think making it easier to understand what's going on takes away from the magic.
But if you don't tend to get super exited about the endings of Blade Runner and Inception, then maybe one of the never versions might be better. :smallwink:

I LOVED the ending. The last 2 episodes were awsome. But I was the only one in my neighbourhood to appreciate it.


Ask yourself why you think Motoko Kusanagi is a woman, and then consider the implications.

Yes. Let's reason why (if the body is full artificial, and there is a mind/soul inside it) she has so prominent female features and is so sexy. And why all the female cyb body are so feminine and perfect. The body can be anything. But the society restricted it to that.

[HamHam]

Basilisk is a little bit "fantasy" with the characterization. But is good. Feudal Japan, war between Ninja Clans... with a lot of political background: the war explode when both the Clans are working to a peace treatment.

Basilisk is terrible. I didn't think you could go wrong with a series about ninjas killing each other, but they managed to somehow make it boring and stupid.


Ask yourself why you think Motoko Kusanagi is a woman, and then consider the implications.

Because she clearly self identifies as such? Not really sure where you're going with this.

[Eldan]

Ask yourself why you think Motoko Kusanagi is a woman, and then consider the implications.

Ooh. Interesting. And a good point.


Innocence is a serious contender for my favourite movie of all times. Now, it is certainly even more artsy than the first. But, well, it clearly had a huge budget and the advantage of much newer CGI and it is gorgeous. The composition, the music, the art, the shots, everything is beautiful. And the story isn't bad, just told very slowly, often with entire long scenes where not a word is spoken. THere's also a bit of mindscrew when the viewpoint character's brain is hacked.
The Major is barely in it. That might be a turn off. But since it's a sequel to the first movie centering on Batou, that is sort of to be expected.

[Tengu_temp]

The Major is barely in it. That might be a turn off. But since it's a sequel to the first movie centering on Batou, that is sort of to be expected.

A turn off for some, a selling point for others. And yes, I loved Innocence. One of the best anime movies I've seen.

[Finlam]

One that I rarely see mentioned, but personally liked;
Mushishi
it's mostly episodic, but a very good one.. though it's in no way an action anime(it has a solemn but mysterious tone).
it also has a fairly unique art style.
Plot-wise; it follows the journeys of a man named Ginko, sort of a shinto priest crossed with a doctor, as he goes around helping villages who are having trouble with mysterious energy creatures called "mushi".

This one cannot be seconded enough, though if you are all geared up for an action/robot/power of friendship anime you will be sorely disappointed. Mushishi is not like any other anime. It's like finding a strange abandoned cityscape, as you walk down the abandoned avenues you turn only to discover that the glass side of that skyscraper was never really glass, but a beautiful, living mural.

[Eldan]

IT's been on my list for a while. Probably the next thing I'll watch after Seirei no Moribito.

[Terraoblivion]

Ask yourself why you think Motoko Kusanagi is a woman, and then consider the implications.

You mean the implication that the reason people consider her feminist is because she's a female character who solely engages in male-coded behavior and as such is considered strong by denying female-coded behavior? Which is, you know, incredibly anti-feminist in that it builds on and reinforces the belief that what is traditionally considered male is more worthy than what is traditionally considered female. Now as any feminist would tell you, a lot of traits that are by definition negative are female-coded, however a lot of female-coded behavior is neutral or even positive, but consistently denigrated as either less worthy or forced on women as a straightjacket. Is, say, knitting less worthy than messing with mechanics and how exactly is there an inherent conflict between it and a confident leader or competent and independent member of the workforce? The conflict only exists because of the devaluing of what is considered traditionally female and praising the Major as being a strong character for being indistinguishable from a conventional male lead other than through physical appearance reinforces that by insisting that strength equals a focus on male-coded behavior.

Beyond that, there are several other reasons why GitS isn't feminist despite its reputation among people who haven't heavily engaged with feminist theory. These include how much the Major is fetishized, especially in the manga, and the fact that she's the only recurring female character as well as the only female character in a position of authority in at least the manga, the original movie and the first season of SAC and even she is ultimately working for a man, something that is especially important in SAC. There isn't made any effort to create a feminist point about the marginalization and sexualization of women either, it simply is there as a default part of the series that is never commented on.

So, no, I don't think GitS is in any way feminist, even if there are traits that some people who don't know feminism mistake for feminist. It is not hugely sexist either, but it's pretty baseline and unremarkable other than the disproportionate following its supposed feminism has.

Also, I have to agree with Tengu, having less of the Major would be a selling point of anything GitP-related as she's easily the least interesting or likable major character.

[Grinner]

You mean the implication that the reason people consider her feminist is because she's a female character who solely engages in male-coded behavior and as such is considered strong by denying female-coded behavior? Which is, you know, incredibly anti-feminist in that it builds on and reinforces the belief that what is traditionally considered male is more worthy than what is traditionally considered female. Now as any feminist would tell you, a lot of traits that are by definition negative are female-coded, however a lot of female-coded behavior is neutral or even positive, but consistently denigrated as either less worthy or forced on women as a straightjacket. Is, say, knitting less worthy than messing with mechanics and how exactly is there an inherent conflict between it and a confident leader or competent and independent member of the workforce? The conflict only exists because of the devaluing of what is considered traditionally female and praising the Major as being a strong character for being indistinguishable from a conventional male lead other than through physical appearance reinforces that by insisting that strength equals a focus on male-coded behavior.

Wow. Color me impressed...

[Eldan]

Maybe not feminist (I agree on that point by Terraoblivion) but it does raise a few interesting questions on sex and gender ideas, at least, since changing bodies is something the major (and I think also a few others) can perform. Though identity questions in general is probably more accurate, as that's a major theme throughout.

[Kitten Champion]

Why do you people think feminist has to mean female empowerment? I would say most of Feminist speculative fiction is unrelated to strong female characters, I've read decisively feminist SF where women do not appear at all but explore the related themes.

It's about critiquing gender roles, sexual identity, societies' power relations between sexes, embodiment and its meaning to the individual, objectification, biological destiny, and essentially what it means to be a woman to one's self and society.

What separates Ghost in the Shell from a Burst Angel, Black Lagoon, or Cowboy Bebop is the ideas it brings forth. What Motoko Kusanagi is is the central concern of the movie - she's a post-human certainly but what that means is for you to question and consider. Her sex is technically irrelevant as she lacks sexual organs or the capacity to reproduce. Her form is as much Woman as mannequins you see in department store windows. We know this because we see her being "born" and fully-formed without genitalia in the first minutes of the movie. One of two scenes where she is naked, the other one she tears her body apart in an herculean effort of strength. Both of which utterly lack eroticism, as you see the surface ripped away and the machine reduced to the human-like components.

She is, literally, an object. The comparison the show develop is a person driving a car, she manipulates a body but isn't that body. The movie takes the practice (particularly prevalent in anime) of reducing women to objects of sexual fetishism by presenting a sexualized object (Mokoto's body) and deconstructing it literally and figuratively. Her sexuality and sexual identity are an abstraction, a self-determined projection which we accept because there's a pretense of perfect woman in front of us. This is how she represents herself to the world. At the same time, the writer treats her more or less asexually, she's a comrade at arms and a friend but nothing more. Her central identity is that of a soldier and cyborg, so why bother with a Sex?

Well, this future isn't on the other side of a singularity, cybernetic values haven't replaced traditional biological ones. Why do the members of Public Security Section 9 still eat? Why does Batou have clearly defined robotic eyes while most choose more passably human equivalents? Why do they still converse verbally when links are more efficient? Why doesn't everyone become cyborgs when clearly there are significant advantages to post-human existence? Ghost in the Shell is still on the turning point, where these things still matter to people.

Sexuality and sexual identity are problematical in a cyborg reality, the nature of our understanding of what a woman and man is grounded in a assumed natural dichotomy, SF such as Ghost in the Shells plays off those assumptions in subtle ways using significant visuals and dialogue.

[Eldan]

Yes, but what Feminist point does the series make? Gender is barely every mentioned at all. Sex comes up a few times, but never really as anything central.
It talks about individual identity on a much broader scale. It doesn't make a point about sex or gender. It makes points about humanity and whether there is even a persistent individual that exists from one point to the next or only a biological machine that has a vague concept of memory that can be manipulated and changed anyway.

[Terraoblivion]

Because female empowerment and the end of structural gender inequality is the purpose of feminism? That seems like a pretty big point in why feminism has to mean it. Feminism is ultimately a political movement, not a philosophical school, a branch of psychology or anything else relevant. More broadly speaking feminism, when it is sensible, also emphasizes intersectionality with other groups harmed by structural inequalities, most commonly race, sexuality and gender identity issues.

In any case, GitS does not engage in either political struggle for the ending gender-based inequality, nor does it actually discuss gender in any way. It is never even a topic that is raised, even in the face of rigid gender roles throughout the entire franchise providing plenty of opportunity to do so. Other than the Major women are engaged in traditionally female roles, from hostesses to secretaries to being relevant due to being the mothers or lovers of male characters, while men are engaged in traditionally male roles. If it was actually interested in exploring questions of the mutability and diversity of gender in the face of a cyborg future, it would actually raise the question at some point instead of uncritically presenting a society with more conservative gender roles than modern Japan.

The franchise concerns itself with more traditional questions of identity, loss of identity and how to keep identity in the face of a mutable physical form. This is somewhere gender could very easily be discussed, but it isn't. It never comes up, it's never mentioned nor is there anything implying that it is in any way significant to the story. Unlike pretty much every other aspect of identity, GitS takes gender completely at face value, reifying gender roles as so self-evidently normal as to not need to be commented on. Any exploration of how gender is performance, queer theory or even something as simple as gender roles changing as society does is curiously absent. That is not to say a feminist reading is impossible, but a feminist reading of anything is possible, however, feminism is in no way, shape or form inherent to GitS.

Also the Major is most definitely sexualized in the extreme in the original manga. Most obviously it contains a graphic, gratuitous lesbian orgy with her at the center. It was one of the many things cut out for the movie version, but it was still there. Similarly, she dresses the way she does because Shirow Masamune thinks it's hot. At least no hint that there is anymore to it exists anywhere in either the manga, nor the anime that follows the original designs.

[Kitten Champion]

Yes, but what Feminist point does the series make? Gender is barely every mentioned at all. Sex comes up a few times, but never really as anything central.
It talks about individual identity on a much broader scale. It doesn't make a point about sex or gender. It makes points about humanity and whether there is even a persistent individual that exists from one point to the next or only a biological machine that has a vague concept of memory that can be manipulated and changed anyway.

The existential themes and feminist themes tie into one another. Although I will admit much of the more dominant feminist themes are Oshii's subtext, rather than being explicitly explored. The subtext is however, not unapparent.

Ghost in the Shell puts forth ideas more than arguments. That's a weakness many critics in academia point to, it's lack of true subversiveness.

[MLai]

There's no need to discuss the manga of GitS. Masamune Shirow is one of my fav manga writers of all time, and I can vouch that he doesn't have a feminist bone in his entire body. Unless anyone here thinks approving of lesbian action means you're a feminist.

I believe Kitten Champion's opinion is entirely about the movies and TV shows, the latter of which takes Shirow's original ideas and expands upon them.

[Kitten Champion]

There's no need to discuss the manga of GitS. Masamune Shirow is one of my fav manga writers of all time, and I can vouch that he doesn't have a feminist bone in his entire body. Unless anyone here thinks approving of lesbian action means you're a feminist.

I believe Kitten Champion's opinion is entirely about the movies and TV shows, the latter of which takes Shirow's original ideas and expands upon them.

I haven't read the GitS manga, although I did get through Appleseed and Dominion.

Shirow has a thing about sexual fetishism and technology, which is interesting in its own right but largely disrupted rather than supported Oshii's vision for the GitS movie. He isn't known for being meticulous with canon or following stereotypical tropes, he puts a lot of emphasis on visuals and layered complexity.

Pretentious? Probably. He's the one that make GitS interesting for me and worth re-watching.

[Logic]

My advice is to watch at least the first season and then reevaluate your position.

I disagree with this notion. A series has to have a relevent hook in the first 2 or 3 episodes. I say this because I don't want to trudge through another 10-20 episodes to determine if it has potential. Either the show proves its worth early, or it doesn't.

[Terraoblivion]

I have to agree. It's one thing to say that the first episode or two is boring setup or the director hasn't quite got a feel for it yet, but a full season? That's a big investment in stuff that isn't that good, especially since it also means settling in for a very long show which just plain isn't to everyone's tastes. Looking at the shows I've personally liked the longest is Full Metal Panic! and that's still only forty five episodes and the content is highly variable and some parts can be skipped or watched as stand-alones.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I disagree with this notion. A series has to have a relevent hook in the first 2 or 3 episodes. I say this because I don't want to trudge through another 10-20 episodes to determine if it has potential. Either the show proves its worth early, or it doesn't.
Yeah, I think my threshold tends to hover around 3-4. A friend of mine observes the 4-episode rule just to give the benefit of the doubt. The only time I'll draw an exception is if a friend I know and trust highly recommends it to me.

[Forrestfire]

I'm gonna third Baccano!

I think it's probably the single best anime I've ever seen, with a beautifully-done dub, great characters, great animation, great plot... :smallbiggrin:


Also, this one isn't a classic, seeing as it's currently ongoing, but you might want to also check out Attack On Titan. It's somewhere between a grimdark war story and a zombie apocalypse with (non-infectious, so the simile kinda ends there) giants.

Although one thing I have to say is that I cannot tell you anything past the premise, lest spoilers happen, and I would highly suggest avoiding any and all text or descriptions that aren't the title of the episode and/or... nope... That's all you can really look at safely without running into spoilers. :smalltongue:

Both Baccano and Attack on Titan are on Hulu.

[Eldan]

Baccano just had a little bit too much pointless slapstick and unfunny jokes to me. Which is sad, given that hte rest would have been quite interesting. It just destroyed the tone, didn't fit even remotely.

[TheDarkDM]

Taking an aside from the debate on feminist theory, I'd disagree with the earlier poster's advice to avoid Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann and flcl. While I'll admit that both require an above-average tolerance for bizarreness, they're highly enjoyable works that make full use of their odd premises. flcl is easily the stranger of the two, a short little six episode series about a boy, his brother's girlfriend, and the intergalactic mercenary who runs into him on a vespa. Before long, they're having lightsaber duels with electric guitars, transforming into robots to fight bigger robots, and throwing a wrench into a vaguely defined universal conspiracy to iron free will out of existence. It's an excellent vignette of what is implied to be a much larger story that manages to tackle the themes of emerging puberty, maturity, and identity with some truly crazy visual metaphors. And it also has a fantastic soundtrack by The Pillows. By the end of the last episode, you may not completely understand what's happened, but you'll almost certainly have enjoyed the ride, and it's a nice palate cleanser before diving into another long series.

Meanwhile, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a triumphant example of a universe that runs on Rule of Cool while still maintaining internal consistency. It starts simply enough as a rather wacky but conventional giant-robot show, but rather than settle into a comfortable norm it raises the stakes every few episodes. Part coming-of-age tale, part celebration of the human spirit, it's something you should watch if you're able to turn off the cynical part of your brain and enjoy the ride. At 26 episodes long, it's pretty lean, though it's still burdened by one clip show that marks a mid-season time skip. Also of concern is the fact that the show's worst episodes are 4, 5, and 6, which can kill the forward momentum of the three opening episodes. However, if you can endure to episode 7 and enjoyed the first three episodes, it's smooth sailing until the end.

Now, as far as new recommendations, it sounds like you'd enjoy Blood+. It's essentially an anime version of Buffy - chosen girl, fights vampires, has a trusted band of friends, hunts down the big bad, you know the drill. However, it executes its tropes extremely well, and has a fairly novel and interesting take on vampires. Also of note is the excellent score by Hans Zimmer and Mark Mancina.

Another excellent soundtrack can be found in Noir, which is an odd little anime centered on two female assassins operating in modern day Paris. Remarkably, there is neither fanservice nor superpowers, and the simple premise eventually goes down the rabbit hole of an ancient conspiracy without drowning you in questionable symbolism and jargon. And the soundtrack is truly fantastic, especially if you enjoy jazz.

You might also enjoy Claymore, though your mileage may vary. It focuses on a group of mutated female monster hunters in a faux-medieval world, and has some redeeming qualities. The art and lore are interesting, and it is fairly light on ridiculous anime superpowers (they do show up, but usually with some caveats and some body horror). However, it is weirdly paced, has an annoying (and useless) sidekick, can get a bit fanservicey (though thankfully not with the main character), and is unfinished.

Speaking of fanservice though, I noticed someone recommended High School of the Dead. Whoo boy, is that one problematical. On the one hand, a fairly strong zombie drama that doesn't pull its punches and provides a uniquely Japanese perspective on a commonly western brand of fiction. On the other hand, you won't be able to recommend it to anyone without immediate caveats. The artist got his start in Hentai, and boy does it show in his sensibilities. Thankfully the fanservice ramps down around the midway point, but most of the female cast is made up of ridiculously proportioned horny teenagers, and the only other female main character is an even more ridiculously proportioned airhead. And it has a bath episode. That said, the show is also a fairly accurate portrayal of the issues involved in the apocalypse (transportation, fuel, weapons, other survivors, the reactions of other nations), and the characters manage to defy their appearance and actually approach becoming well rounded. So, you know, it's worth a watch if you understand what you're getting into.

Veering away from fanservice though, another interesting option is Last Exile, which I recommend even more if you're a fan of dieselpunk. It presents a fascinating and slightly horrifying world in much the same vein as Nausicaa, and has some excellently done aerial sequences. It gets weird near the end, and has a drastic shift in tone about six episodes in, but it's very well drawn and eventually has an enjoyable cast of rogues not dissimilar from, say, the Night's Watch.

If you're a fan of the ole' ultraviolence, I'd also recommend the Hellsing Ultimate OVA. I've never seen the original anime, but I understand the OVA stays much more faithful to the manga, and it is a bloody good time. Not the most complex characters or plots, but if you find the ideas of a thinly veiled Dracula analogue fighting a war against an army of vampire Nazi's in any way exciting, you'll enjoy this show. Just be aware that is is fond of its gore, and go forward with both eyes open.

Finally, if you do decide to watch Neon Genesis Evangelion, do yourself a favor and have End of Evangelion on hand. You may enjoy the ending to the series, but there's also the possibility that you'll come out of it wondering what the hell was going on behind the scenes (running out of money and the creator's psychotic break, as it turns out). End of Evangelion at least attempts to tie up the series' loose ends into something coherent. Then when you're done with them, hunt down the Rebuild of Evangelion movies for some sweet, sweet catharsis and high budget slaying of eldritch abominations.

[Grinner]

I disagree with this notion. A series has to have a relevent hook in the first 2 or 3 episodes. I say this because I don't want to trudge through another 10-20 episodes to determine if it has potential. Either the show proves its worth early, or it doesn't.

The problem is that Soul Eater is a bit of a special case. They spend the first four or five episodes alone introducing the protagonists. They certainly could have introduced Medusa earlier, but I guess they decided to play a long game instead.

[Finlam]

Another excellent soundtrack can be found in Noir, which is an odd little anime centered on two female assassins operating in modern day Paris. Remarkably, there is neither fanservice nor superpowers, and the simple premise eventually goes down the rabbit hole of an ancient conspiracy without drowning you in questionable symbolism and jargon. And the soundtrack is truly fantastic, especially if you enjoy jazz.

Save yourself the trouble and just listen to the Noir soundtrack. There is no reason to watch the anime.
/edit
I also disagree with the lack of superpowers. The two leads clearly have superpowers. The shootout on the giant white staircase was proof enough. It's hard to get into an anime that protects its protagonists with plot armor no matter what situation it throws them into. It completely kills all dramatic tension, unless gunshots are synonymous with dramatic tension for you, in which case you'll like both it and Stormtroopers. Not to mention how terrible the plot was. I've yet to see an anime fail at suspending disbelief so hard. I guess if you watch for just visuals and music and plot, substance, and world consistency don't matter to you, then this is definitely your anime.

[Tengu_temp]

Noir has some issues, such as too many episodes that are just Jerkass Target Of The Week or fights with MiBs that serve no purpose other than padding, but it's still a pretty good show with a fantastic atmosphere that captures real life Paris perfectly. Also, hhnnggg Kirika.

[HamHam]

Taking an aside from the debate on feminist theory, I'd disagree with the earlier poster's advice to avoid Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann and flcl.

TTGL is not something you should watch without the proper grounding in Giant Robot shows.

[Eldan]

Save yourself the trouble and just listen to the Noir soundtrack. There is no reason to watch the anime.
/edit
I also disagree with the lack of superpowers. The two leads clearly have superpowers. The shootout on the giant white staircase was proof enough. It's hard to get into an anime that protects its protagonists with plot armor no matter what situation it throws them into. It completely kills all dramatic tension, unless gunshots are synonymous with dramatic tension for you, in which case you'll like both it and Stormtroopers. Not to mention how terrible the plot was. I've yet to see an anime fail at suspending disbelief so hard. I guess if you watch for just visuals and music and plot, substance, and world consistency don't matter to you, then this is definitely your anime.

Really? I thought Noir was fantastic from start to finish. Yes there's meters of ablative plot armour and gun-fu superpowers. It was still great.

[Empedocles]

Empedocles, how's the show-watching been going for you? I know you mentioned you were about 20% of the way through Code Geass.

Well...the thread has sort of run away from me. My computer is broken so I haven't been checking on here BUT BOY OH BOY IS CODE GEASS FANTASTIC. Im absolutely loving it, having completely dropped my former misgivings. Finished season 1, but I will say that R2 isn't quite as intense. It's great, but there's been a loss of tension in many places (especially in the Lelouche-Suzaku relationship).

In other anime news, I've watched several Studio Ghibli works. Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, and The Castle in the Sky were brilliant. Howl's Moving Castle wasn't bad, but I felt like I missed some things, and the plot rambled.

[Tengu_temp]

TTGL is not something you should watch without the proper grounding in Giant Robot shows.

The only other mecha anime I saw before TTGL was Evangelion and Full Metal Panic (and some ancient shows like Daimos when I was like 7 years old). I still enjoyed it immensely. I mean, Gurren Lagann is a huge Getter Robo homage, but you don't need to know anything about Getter to watch and enjoy it.

[Eldan]

I agree on that. Never seen anything else with Mecha except Evangelion and still loved TTGL.

I tried watching a few mecha shows later and haven't found one I didn't think was boring.

[MLai]

Save yourself the trouble and just listen to the Noir soundtrack. There is no reason to watch the anime.
/edit
I also disagree with the lack of superpowers. The two leads clearly have superpowers. The shootout on the giant white staircase was proof enough. It's hard to get into an anime that protects its protagonists with plot armor no matter what situation it throws them into.
If you didn't like Noir for the reasons you listed... I think you would absolutely hate Black Lagoon.
Plot kevlar and gun-fu are just par of the course when we're dealing with John Woo-inspired anime. For example, did you like or dislike movies such as Equilibrium, Face Off, Charlies Angels etc due to the choreography?

[TheDarkDM]

TTGL is not something you should watch without the proper grounding in Giant Robot shows.

Why? It's not like giant robot shows deal with any themes unique to giant robot shows, and TTGL is internally coherent. Also, what exactly defines a "proper grounding" in Giant Robot shows, and what genre of Giant Robot shows are you proposing he get a solid grounding in?

[tomandtish]

A lot of good suggestions here, so my .02 worth:

Claymore: TheDarkDm’s review is pretty good. The anime is considered complete since Claire makes the decision not to pursue Priscilla but to live her life so you can watch it all.

Hellsing is enjoyable and complete, but veers away from the manga pretty quickly. Hellsing Ultimate follows the OVA, but only 8 episodes are available in the States so far. Very enjoyable vampire action, but very violent.

High School of the Dead: Take The Walking Dead. Set it in Japan. Make your cast a group of high school kids. And .. oh yes. Put it on HBO. Well, not quite that bad in terms of gratuitousness, but close. It can be an enjoyable zombie apocalypse story, but be prepared.

Most people here probably know this, but probably a good time to point out that the age of consent in Japan is 13, so scantily clad or nude high schoolers in manga and anime is not unusual. Be warned and decide how comfortable you are with that.

[Terraoblivion]

Claymore: TheDarkDm’s review is pretty good. The anime is considered complete since Claire makes the decision not to pursue Priscilla but to live her life so you can watch it all.

So basically she stops trying to stop a terrifying destructive monster, to live the life that's she's basically ruined completely already? Not like a claymore can live a normal life, what with everyone being terrified of them, the constant horrible pain and the way she's been indoctrinated for years to kill monsters.

[Nekura]

The first Anime I watched was Dragonball and it was years after that that I ever even heard the word anime. It by itself is good to watch. Dragonball Z isn’t as good but still ok however I couldn’t get into Dagonball GT at all.

After that I was introduced to anime with The Slayers which was mentioned once and Ranma ½ which are still among my favorites. I feel your pain about people hyping up Trigun so much but not everything that aired on cartoon network was bad Tenchi Universe was great. Some other good ones that I didn’t see mention yet are Martian successor Nadesico and Saber marionette J. Another one I don’t hear mentioned much anymore but was still good is El-hazard.

Wow just realized that most of those were harem anime but was the general order I watched them in taking out ones mentioned several times like Gundam , Cowboy Bebop and Neon Genesis Evangelion, or which I wouldn’t really recommend like Iria Zeriam the Animation.

[HamHam]

Why? It's not like giant robot shows deal with any themes unique to giant robot shows, and TTGL is internally coherent. Also, what exactly defines a "proper grounding" in Giant Robot shows, and what genre of Giant Robot shows are you proposing he get a solid grounding ut in?

I really should have said Super Robot.

As to why, because you will get more out of it if you get what it's about. It's not necessary, but being able to place TTGL in the proper context of the old Super Robot shows (Getter Robo etc) and just as importantly the post-Evangellion shows because TTGL is a reaction to the latter and an homage to the former lets you appreciate it in a much deeper way.

[tomandtish]

So basically she stops trying to stop a terrifying destructive monster, to live the life that's she's basically ruined completely already? Not like a claymore can live a normal life, what with everyone being terrified of them, the constant horrible pain and the way she's been indoctrinated for years to kill monsters.

It’s apparently supposed to be a question of choices and growth. Is she just a Claymore, focused on revenge and defeating Yoma? Or is she also a person with a right to live? She has two promises: one to defeat Priscilla (which she isn’t strong enough to do without fully awakening) and one to return to Raki. She can’t honor both of them. The organization has pretty much made it clear that she and all the other partially awakened are already suspect anyway, so they are going to be on their own (Manga does this better).

Look at it like Star Wars. There is room for continuation, but if Star Wars had been the only movie, it would have been just fine.

[Tengu_temp]

I thought the ending of the Claymore anime was just a lame semi-cliffhanger from which they could easily continue in case they decided to turn more of the manga into an anime. But that never happened. It was probably the most obvious "the manga doesn't end here and goes on but our anime only covers so much" ending that I've ever seen, and definitely the worst part of that show.



As to why, because you will get more out of it if you get what it's about. It's not necessary, but being able to place TTGL in the proper context of the old Super Robot shows (Getter Robo etc) and just as importantly the post-Evangellion shows because TTGL is a reaction to the latter and an homage to the former lets you appreciate it in a much deeper way.

No, I disagree. TTGL is perfectly enjoyable on its own merits, and you don't have to know any other super robot shows to appreciate it fully. I know because that's how I watched it.

By the way, the idea that Evangelion turned super robot shows from fun-loving, hot-blooded silly romps into serious, deconstructive and philosophical angst-fests, and TTGL restored them to their old format, is completely and utterly WRONG. We had a lot of serious super robot shows that deconstructed the genre way before Evangelion - hell, Tomino did it as early as in the seventies with Zambot, and the original Mazinger manga has a surprising amount of dark and mature content. On the other side of the spectrum, there was a lot of lighthearted super robot shows in the time between Eva and TTGL (Gao Gai Gar for starters, which came out almost immediately after Eva ended), and very few if any of them were direct responses to Evangelion. All Eva did was spawn a bunch of imitators of various quality, and that's not enough to talk about a whole genre.

Sidenote: I have an issue calling Getter Robo an old super robot show, considering that all the good Getter manga and anime are from the nineties or oughties. And from the good ones, only the Getter Robo Go manga (the anime is barely based on it and not good at all) is older than Evangelion.

[Terraoblivion]

Yeah, I honestly don't understand this gnostic approach to anime as something you need to gather secret knowledge to appreciate. Most anime is perfectly capable of standing on its own, its mostly made to do so after all.

Not all of it, of course. Watching Lucky Star without knowing Haruhi might be a bit of an odd experience for example. Really, given how much the show relies on references it's probably a good idea to have a broad knowledge of what otaku in 2007 would know about before watching it. But most anime isn't based on constant references and in-jokes to that degree.

[Tengu_temp]

Actually, even aside from shows referencing and homaging other shows, there's quite a bit of anime that simply doesn't work that well on entry level. Some shows assume that the viewer is familiar with various anime character archetypes and standard plot elements. And other stuff might be simply too weird and/or uncomfortable for someone who hasn't seen much anime, while veterans barely bat an eyelid at it. I wouldn't recommend Nanoha for a newcomer, for example.

[MLai]

I really should have said Super Robot.
As to why, because you will get more out of it if you get what it's about. It's not necessary, but being able to place TTGL in the proper context of the old Super Robot shows (Getter Robo etc) and just as importantly the post-Evangellion shows because TTGL is a reaction to the latter and an homage to the former lets you appreciate it in a much deeper way.
I'm guessing it's because the older posters will remember having watched Voltron and/or Robotech during schoolday afternoons, so they don't think super robots are so difficult to "get" even if they've never watched proper anime before. But there are younger posters who are post-Voltron/Robotech/Evangelion, who aren't familiar with the concept and conventions.

[Eldan]

Not familiar with that either. TTGL was pretty much the first thing I saw were robots of more than human size played a prominent role. Or at least the first thing I remember. And I "got" it. I think. At least I liked it.

[tensai_oni]

Watching Gurren Lagann without any prior mecha knowledge is perfectly fine, as long as people don't go "okay, I watched TTGL and now I don't have to see anything else, all those shows are inferior even though I didn't watch them".

Which is what a disappointingly large part of the Gurren Lagann fanbase believes.

[Eldan]

I've tried. I've tried watching some different Gundam shows later. It was so incredibly dull and boring.

[Brewdude]

I hated dragonball and all its sequels.

However, Dragonball Z Abridged (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nYozPLpJRE) is the greatest show ever made. Look for it on YouTube, by TeamFourStar

[tensai_oni]

I've tried. I've tried watching some different Gundam shows later. It was so incredibly dull and boring.

Gundam is always the middle of the road show: rarely terrible, but rarely really good either. That it's always long doesn't help - it's much better if the writers can contain the story in 26 or 13 episodes.

Watch FMP instead. Or one of the newer Getter OVAs.

[Empedocles]

Well...I have more then enough recommendations...thank you all so much! :smallbiggrin:

[Winter_Wolf]

I think that if you can buy into the belief that:
1. giant robots = awesome
2. giant robots in space = awesome in space

then you are in fact fully prepared for the robot/super robot/mecha genre.

Robotech (I believe it is originally called Macross)was Saturday morning cartoons for me growing up. Now the thing to understand about Robotech (if you don't know already), is that it's space opera and the robots get a lot less time than one would think, considering the series is called Robotech. But when they showed up they were awesome and fun.

Speaking of which, Macross Plus is all of 4 1-hour episodes and is a story that can be enjoyed sans knowledge of the rest of the Robotech/Macross universe.

And I'm probably remembering through rosy nostalgia, but I did like Grendizer for giant robot anime. About 30ish years ago on VHS.... :smallredface: For some reason my isolated little hometown had a large amount of Japanese anime available at Bob's Video Shack.

If you're into severely depressing anime, the Japanese versions of The Little Mermaid and The Last Unicorn are options, if you can even find them anymore. As it turns out, I'm not one of those people who feels better after watching/reading severely depressing or sad movies, films, series, what have you. I refuse to watch movies like Eight Below or Hachi for that reason. But if that kind of thing floats your boat, there's an abundance of it in many genres of anime.

[HamHam]

Robotech (I believe it is originally called Macross)

Robotech and Macross are not the same thing. They may use the same footage, and the first season of Robotech that is made from Macross is probably the closest to the source material compared to later seasons (which are based on completely unrelated mecha anime). But the amount of changes is still significant enough that Robotech cannot be considered a translation or localization of Macross.

Which one you should watch... I for one like Robotech and every newer Macross series I've seen has been dumb. *shrug*

[Magatsu Izanagi]

Now, as far as new recommendations, it sounds like you'd enjoy Blood+. It's essentially an anime version of Buffy - chosen girl, fights vampires, has a trusted band of friends, hunts down the big bad, you know the drill. However, it executes its tropes extremely well, and has a fairly novel and interesting take on vampires. Also of note is the excellent score by Hans Zimmer and Mark Mancina.
Blood+'s pacing was absolutely glacial, taking 50 episodes to tell a story that could have easily been told in 24-26. There was also the way that people like David, Lewis, and Kai were rendered superfluous thanks to authorial fiat.

[Empedocles]

So I've started watching Neon Genesis Evangelion, and I'm really enjoying it, but from what I've heard there's a lot of controversy surrounding it. Why is that?

In other news, most of the anime I've really enjoyed have been all about big robots...Code Geass, Gun X Sword, Neon Genesis Evangelion...maybe Im more of a kid then I thought :P

[Kitten Champion]

So I've started watching Neon Genesis Evangelion, and I'm really enjoying it, but from what I've heard there's a lot of controversy surrounding it. Why is that?

A variety of reasons. To begin, the main characters all have pressing psychological issues leading to them being unpalatable to some, particularly Shinji Ikari. Many seem unwilling to accept that Shinji is non-heroic in the extreme, I've heard quite a bit of grousing about him being emo or whiny.

Secondly, there is the layered and terse symbolism, which certainly has grounds for allegations of pretentiousness. It's plot, while not exactly nonsensical, is not really that important. It's mostly there to push the abstract visual symbolism and character monologues. Piecing together what's literally happening isn't easy, and a lot of your questions are going to be left unanswered.

Lastly, the ending. The ending was shot on a nothing budget, it's essentially Shinji talking to himself for 20 some-odd minutes and is mostly about the slow progression out of a depressive thought patterns over a random collection of still life images. It's intriguing but more or less leaves you completely outside of anything resembling a narrative. The movie conclusion does give you an ending to the events in the story, but... it's still anticlimactic to sit 25 episodes and end on that.

Mostly, it's just very dark and full of stuff which if you aren't intrigued by it you're probably going to be disappointed when reality starts to unwind and the surface of a lighthearted slice-of-life/comedy and super heroic-mecha fantasy get wiped away by mind-screws and dissonant psychological and philosophical rhetoric.

[MLai]

I've just finished binging through all 2 seasons of Code Geass thanks to recommendations from this thread. Thanks forum, you've never let me down! I agree this anime can be succinctly described as "Death Note + mechas". I disagree with the OP that season 2 isn't as good as season 1. I was hopelessly addicted through both seasons.

As for Suzaku? I hate the smug self-righteous deluded little traitor. I had feared while watching the series, that the ending would give me something infuriating like Suzaku triumphant over Lelouche, i.e. the writer trying to impose onto me his (the writer's) views of morality which I would completely disagree with. Thankfully that did not happen; this show kept surprising me with its even-handedness and lack of preconceptions.

For example, during the first several eps of Code Geass, I was laughing (derisively) at how the show is going to be about half-Japanese half-Caucasian heroes rescuing Righteous Japan from Big Bad Imperialistic United States, while those same half-Japanese half-Caucasians show how much more superior and beautiful they are than pure Japanese. Thankfully I was wrong. I wonder if the show intentionally wanted me to think that! But that's not the show at all.

In other news, most of the anime I've really enjoyed have been all about big robots...Code Geass, Gun X Sword, Neon Genesis Evangelion...maybe Im more of a kid then I thought :P
You need to go watch Pacific Rim. Right now!

Blood+'s pacing was absolutely glacial, taking 50 episodes to tell a story that could have easily been told in 24-26. There was also the way that people like David, Lewis, and Kai were rendered superfluous thanks to authorial fiat.
Agree. The best part of that entire long show was the relationship between Kai and that blonde vampire hunter girl. And it lasted all of 1 episode because of authorial fiat. I would have loved it if her subplot stayed for the rest of the series; would've given Kai some meaning.

[HamHam]

So I've started watching Neon Genesis Evangelion, and I'm really enjoying it, but from what I've heard there's a lot of controversy surrounding it. Why is that?

It's pretentious and the director went crazy into depression while making it. The result is about what you would expect.

[Fri]

For me, the problem with Code Geass season 2, is the Lensman arm race. In season 1 the knightmare frame were on the level of wanzer from front mission, and they're cool for their limitations. Suddenly, in season 2 it's all flying around and beamspam for everyone.

[Mr.Bookworm]

the director went crazy into depression while making it.

Totally incorrect, actually, although that's a super-persistent Internet rumor. Anno did suffer from severe depression, but that was pre-Evangelion, and he was totally stable while he was making it. The original outline shows that the show was always like that in broad thematic terms.

The problem was the budget; they just plain ran out of money.

EDIT: The proposal below, if you're curious.

In The Year 2015

Humanity has reached its evolutionary limit. Their salvation lies in invoking the Human Complementation Project. In order to disrupt the plan, a group of unidentified giant battle weapons have invaded.

The Apostolos. They've been given the names of angels, but can they really be Messengers of the Gods?

In order to obtain the great power needed to resist the Apostolos, humanity has developed the all-purpose artificial battle weapon Evangelion. After fourteen years, three units have been completed. However, only appointed fourteen-year-old boys and girls can possibly manipulate the Evas.

And now, the fight for humanity's existence rests with them.

Episode 1: People's Reunion: The story begins with a two-car train moving through the mountain terrain of Hakone, headed for the city of Tokyo-3. On board is the main character, Shinji Ikari. He has been summoned by his father to come to Tokyo-3. Suddenly the trains stops. Through the mountains and trees can be heard the sound of emergency sirens. Two giant figures appear, before Shinji's eyes and begin a raging battle. Misato Katsuragi appears and saves Shinji. The battle is between the robotic giant "Evangelion" Unit-00 and the metallic "Apostolo" Rajiel. The unit-00 defeates the Apostolo, but not without heavy damage. The Angel disappears into a lake and the damages Unit-00 is taken back to whence it came. Shinji, under the guide of Misato, is taken to underground "artificial evolution" laboratory where he meets Ritsuko and Rei, and, for the first time in years, sees his father. Shinji confronts the Evangelion Unit-01. He learns that he has been chosen to pilot it. The Apostolo, Rajiel, appears once again. The Unit-01 is prepared for battle, and Shinji, clueless of what is going on, takes his seat in the piloting chair under the orders of his father and the other grownups. The unit-01, though unable to even walk straight, is sent to fight. In the dark of the night, in the fortress city of Tokyo-3, the two giants clash and the people who created the "Eva" see the true power of their own creation and are awed.

Episode 2: Unrecognizable Ceilings: During battle, the Eva Unit-01 goes out of control and shows unpredicted strength. Shinji's will defeated the Apostolo. After battle, the civilians' reaction to the Evas and Apostolos is shown. For Shinji, it is the beginning of a new life in an unknown land filled with unknown people. The reoccurring fear from the battle. Misato and Shinji's interaction.

Episode 3: The first telephone call: Shinji's new school. His first friends there. A heavy battle in Tokyo-3.

Episode 4: 14 years, the first day: Shinji's birthday. But his father holds no words of congratulation for Shinji. Misato's decision for Shinji. A drama story of the people of "Nerv."

Episode 5: Rei, Beyond the Heart: Interaction between Rei and Shinji. The fearsome power shown by an Apostolo. The Eva's defeat. The laboratory's oncoming peril.

Episode 6: Deciding battle in Tokyo-3: A battle between human wit and the Apostolo. The Eva's revenge. Shinji begins to understand the people of Nerv.

Episode 7: A man-made thing: A new man-made humanoid battle machine besides the Evas. What happens during its test run. A different side of Nerv is shown.

Episode 8: Asuka's morning arrival: Asuka, Eva Unit-02, and Kaji's arrival. Battle ships vs. a giant robot. A battle held on the deck of an aircraft carrier.

Episode 9: A split second, hearts overlap: The Eva's first beside-water battle. Shinji and Asuka's interaction. A double battle with 2 Evas.

Episode 10: In the still darkness: An inoperative laboratory. The sadness of modern civilization deprived of electricity. A time suspense story.

Episode 11: Magma diver: For the first time, Nerv strikes first against an Apostolo. An Eva is sent into a volcano, specially equipped to capture the Apostolo. Battle in the magma.

Episode 12: An 18 second miracle: A highly explosive, unstoppable Apostolo descends towards Tokyo-3. Absolute peril. Misato's high-risk plan.

Episode 13: What comes after fear: The great defeat Shinji had never expected to come. The breakdown of the Eva Unit-01. Shinji gets trapped inside.

Episode 14: An illness that leads to death, and: A rescue from the damaged Unit-01. A drama of people. Shinji learns true fear and hopelessness.

Episode 15: Shinji, once again: After his recovery, Shinji's decision to ride the Eva unit-01 once again. The Eva Unit-01 is given an overhaul remake job.

Episode 16: In the heart of the enemy: Shinji is taken into an Apostolo and for the first time, communication is made. Part of the Apostolo's objective is brought to light.

Episode 17: Asuka's 1st date: Asuka goes to an amusement park for the first time. Misato's past. A romance comedy.

Episode 18: the choice of life: Shinji fights the Apostolo-controlled Eva Unit-03 piloted by his friend. The choice Shinji makes.

Episode 19: A man's battle: Asuka is heavily wounded protecting Shinji. Shinji tries to prove himself to her. The Evas' first aerial battle. Kaji's death.

Episode 20: Nerv's birth: The Eva unit-05 is sent to Nerv from Germany. A story of what happened 15 years ago: The evaporation of the Dead sea, the creation of Nerv and the Evas. A story of Shinji's father.

Episode 21: At least, like a human: An underwater battle around a sunken ship. Shinji receives a mental attack by an Apostolo. A story of Shinji's mother.

Episode 22: The cat and the transfer student: The first humanoid Apostolo (child with a pet cat) Nerv's accidental allowing of the Apostolo's entry into the laboratory. Shinji's dilemma of fighting a humanoid Apostolo. The laboratory's greatest secret is shown.

Episode 23: The Human Completion Program: The truth behind the Evas and the Human Completion Program, as well as Ritsuko and Shinji's father's plot is revealed.

Episode 24: The promised time, now: Rei breaks down. Her secret is revealed. The final twelve Apostolos awaken, at last, and descend to Earth from the Moon. The American Continent, along with the Eva Unit-06 is erased from the surface of the Earth. Humanity learns futility against the Apostolo's absolute power. The promised time, when humanity will return to nothing, approaches. A human drama of hopelessness.

Episode 25: Aluka, the promised land: The laboratory seeks the ancient ruin, and key to everything: "Aluka." The UN decides to abandon the Human Completion Program and focus on the destruction of the 12 Apostolos. Shinji's father opposes the idea. Shinji and the others stay in the laboratory for Rei. A human drama of people's conflict over differing objectives.

Final Episode: The Only Neat Thing To Do: The ending. The laboratory's destruction and completion to all the secrets and dramas. Finale.


A variety of reasons. To begin, the main characters all have pressing psychological issues leading to them being unpalatable to some, particularly Shinji Ikari. Many seem unwilling to accept that Shinji is non-heroic in the extreme, I've heard quite a bit of grousing about him being emo or whiny.

Secondly, there is the layered and terse symbolism, which certainly has grounds for allegations of pretentiousness. It's plot, while not exactly nonsensical, is not really that important. It's mostly there to push the abstract visual symbolism and character monologues. Piecing together what's literally happening isn't easy, and a lot of your questions are going to be left unanswered.

It eternally fascinates me that episodes 24+ of the show and EoE seems to be literally the only thing that people ever remember. A lot of the kvetching only makes sense in the context of those few episodes. I mean, hell, even you're doing it here. Most of the show is pretty uncomplicated; it's only when it descends into allegorical hell in the last two episodes that it gets mind-screwy.

Oh, and to be completely fair, some of the symbolism is nonsense. Cross-shaped explosions are just there to look cool.


For me, the problem with Code Geass season 2, is the Lensman arm race. In season 1 the knightmare frame were on the level of wanzer from front mission, and they're cool for their limitations. Suddenly, in season 2 it's all flying around and beamspam for everyone.

The main characters were pretty much all running around in super-mechs from the beginning, though. Laser arms and hover-systems galore.

[MLai]

The main characters were pretty much all running around in super-mechs from the beginning, though. Laser arms and hover-systems galore.
I would have to agree with the previous poster that Code Geass would be a lot cooler if all the mechas remained sensible, and at most achieved Lancelot Mark 1's level of power. Strategy loses a lot of meaning when each side has multiple gods of war running around.

I hated a lot of the characters and wished they'd die (ALL of the Knights of the Round, for example), but they were protected by bishounen/kawaii armour to the point of eliciting disgust. If you replaced all the dashing guys and cute girls with old bearded men, the blinders would be off and you'd see they're all murderous fascists. But as usual, only the older side characters die satisfying wartime deaths (Guiford, Bismarck, etc).

[Magatsu Izanagi]

I would have to agree with the previous poster that Code Geass would be a lot cooler if all the mechas remained sensible, and at most achieved Lancelot Mark 1's level of power. Strategy loses a lot of meaning when each side has multiple gods of war running around.

I hated a lot of the characters and wished they'd die (ALL of the Knights of the Round, for example), but they were protected by bishounen/kawaii armour to the point of eliciting disgust. If you replaced all the dashing guys and cute girls with old bearded men, the blinders would be off and you'd see they're all murderous fascists. But as usual, only the older side characters die satisfying wartime deaths (Guiford, Bismarck, etc).
The sadder thing is, the first season of Code Geass also demonstrated that non-Knightmare Frame vehicles could still be viable combatants. The JLF was able to put up a very effective defense at Narita with just five Burais and a buttload of tanks and anti-aircraft guns. And then the Black Knights brought the entire mountain down on them. A shame.

As for the Knights of the Round, I liked Anya, but I agree that Gino should have died. At least the rest of them got what they deserved.
Also, didn't Guilford survive having a nuke go off in his face? It may be Darlton you're thinking of.

[HamHam]

For me, the problem with Code Geass season 2, is the Lensman arm race. In season 1 the knightmare frame were on the level of wanzer from front mission, and they're cool for their limitations. Suddenly, in season 2 it's all flying around and beamspam for everyone.

That's part and parcel of the escalation of R2. CG always had some ludicrous elements, like Spinzaku, but in R2 all the limiters are off.

[Tengu_temp]

So I've started watching Neon Genesis Evangelion, and I'm really enjoying it, but from what I've heard there's a lot of controversy surrounding it. Why is that?

I've seen dozens of reasons why people don't like Evangelion, of various levels of viability, but the most common ones seem to boil down to "I don't get the show and its themes". Complaining that Shinji is emo and not a badass hot-blooded hero is the best example.

[Eldan]

That's a bit insulting, isn't it? I can get things and still dislike Shinji as a character.

[tensai_oni]

I've seen dozens of reasons why people don't like Evangelion, of various levels of viability, but the most common ones seem to boil down to "I don't get the show and its themes". Complaining that Shinji is emo and not a badass hot-blooded hero is the best example.

That's simplifying things. For example, you can dislike that Evangelion is pretentious and all its symbolism is skin-deep - because even Anno acknowledged that.

Or you can dislike its fanbase because it's very vocal and it can get annoying.

[MLai]

That's simplifying things. For example, you can dislike that Evangelion is pretentious and all its symbolism is skin-deep - because even Anno acknowledged that.
Is it only skin deep, though? I had thought that the Angels in the series are literal Old Testament angels, not (simply) extraterrestrials of unknown origin. And that the Human Instrumentality Project is literally a reality-bending process using this divine power, rather than (simply) some ancient extraterrestrial advanced technology.

When you look at it in that light, the angels literally are God's agents sent specifically to Shinji: To create the life experience that is Neon Genesis Evangelion the series, to specifically make him the ambassador of humanity at the very end, and to decide on the next step humanity would take. In that light, his internal struggle at the end is God's true test for him. Not all the physical battles with the Angels beforehand.

[Tengu_temp]

I said that the most common reasons people don't like Eva boil down to "I don't get the show and its themes", not all of them. As much as I like the show, it is deeply flawed, and I understand if someone doesn't like it for the right reasons. It's just that most people hate it for the wrong reasons.

@Mlai - none of your interpretation is canon. All the Old Testament references and imagery in Eva were put there only because Anno thought is cool.

[tensai_oni]

Is it only skin deep, though? I had thought that the Angels in the series are literal Old Testament angels, not (simply) extraterrestrials of unknown origin. And that the Human Instrumentality Project is literally a reality-bending process using this divine power, rather than (simply) some ancient extraterrestrial advanced technology.


Nope.

Terrible spoilers follow: link (http://wiki.evageeks.org/First_Ancestral_Race).

[Water_Bear]

I would have to agree with the previous poster that Code Geass would be a lot cooler if all the mechas remained sensible, and at most achieved Lancelot Mark 1's level of power. Strategy loses a lot of meaning when each side has multiple gods of war running around.

Obviously there's a lot of YMMV here, but I never saw the newer 'Super Robot' Knightmares as any less plausible than the older 'Real Robot' models. Even Glascows and Southerlands fought with gigantic spinning drill-bit lances and could pull themselves hundreds of feet through the air with their Slash Harkens, and the Lancelot was doing Spinzaku kicks from episode 2.


I hated a lot of the characters and wished they'd die (ALL of the Knights of the Round, for example), but they were protected by bishounen/kawaii armour to the point of eliciting disgust. If you replaced all the dashing guys and cute girls with old bearded men, the blinders would be off and you'd see they're all murderous fascists. But as usual, only the older side characters die satisfying wartime deaths (Guiford, Bismarck, etc).

I don't think there're any named characters in Code Geass, except maybe Rivalz and Milly, who you can't make a case for them 'deserving' to die. Especially since the question of whether the ends justify the means / the value of good intentions was so central to the show. It's not really reasonable to expect karmic comeuppance when the show doesn't actually paint any side as being right or wrong.

I do wish the Knights of the Round were less obnoxious though. Gino was excruciatingly boring to watch, Luciano was cliche to the point where it was actually funny, Anya and Bismark hardly got any screentime and the other members might as well not have existed. The idea of the twelve greatest pilots in the empire, each with custom Knightmares, should have been a little more interesting than that.

[Eldan]

Another thing the series really could have improved on are the incredibly silly names some characters have. No, not Lelouch. That's a real name. But a lot of the others.

[Water_Bear]

Another thing the series really could have improved on are the incredibly silly names some characters have. No, not Lelouch. That's a real name. But a lot of the others.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4540222720/h1975B829/

[MLai]

@Mlai - none of your interpretation is canon. All the Old Testament references and imagery in Eva were put there only because Anno thought is cool.
I just followed that link that explained FAR. Ha, ha, what a bunch of cliche crap. So Anno thought ripping off 2001 and countless other spires & togas is preferable to having a pretty innovative (at the time) conflict between man and God. The direction the story took doesn't even make thematic sense unless the story is about something metaphysical/ religious.

Just confirms my opinion that anime backstories are pretty much always s**t and it's better to pretend they don't exist, so that the mystery isn't ruined. Thank goodness Anno didn't put that crap in the actual anime series; I can legitimately not acknowledge it if I only watch the anime itself.

My hostility isn't directed at you, mind. You're just the messenger. It's just that I used to think NGE is actually pretty good despite the no-budget "last battle". But if it's just "sufficiently advanced aliens", then no, NGE sucks.

and the Lancelot was doing Spinzaku kicks from episode 2.
Yet it's still tame compared to R2.

I don't think there're any named characters in Code Geass, except maybe Rivalz and Milly, who you can't make a case for them 'deserving' to die. Especially since the question of whether the ends justify the means / the value of good intentions was so central to the show.
It's not just "oh they killed ppl" that makes certain characters deserving of karmic death. I think Karen is awesome no matter how many soldiers she's blown up; she's essentially a legit resistance fighter.

It's the named Britannian officers who I'm singling out, for the most part. Some officers are just career soldiers so I hold no real enmity at them. But those who participated in the 2 ghetto genocide operations in the series are all war criminals.

What's hilarious to me is how Suzaku is all self-righteous about how he's saving his countrymen through law & order, but he seems perfectly okay with Britannia's ethnic cleansing of Tokyo ghettos as a military tactic.

And you know how near the end of R2, Princess Cornelia is portrayed as some sort of resistance fighter? I was like, wut, I'm supposed to sympathize with you now? Didn't you previously order your soldiers to gun down every Area-11 man/ woman/ child in order to draw out one rebel? Am I supposed to have forgotten about that?

[Water_Bear]

What's hilarious to me is how Suzaku is all self-righteous about how he's saving his countrymen through law & order, but he seems perfectly okay with Britannia's ethnic cleansing of Tokyo ghettos as a military tactic.

Yeah, it always makes me laugh when in episode 2 he's like "If I can stop all the Knightmares, this battle is over!" Well, technically yes he is right about that, but is a one-sided massacre really any better than a battle?


And you know how near the end of R2, Princess Cornelia is portrayed as some sort of resistance fighter? I was like, wut, I'm supposed to sympathize with you now? Didn't you previously order your soldiers to gun down every Area-11 man/ woman/ child in order to draw out one rebel? Am I supposed to have forgotten about that?

No, but they have; the whole point of the Zero Requiem is that Lelouch became such a monster that it overwhelmed any previous animosities people had towards each other. He's spilled enough blood to make people forget about 'Princess Massacre', so why shouldn't that apply to Cornelia's actions?

Not that that makes any sense, but it's a core part of the finale.

[Magatsu Izanagi]

No, but they have; the whole point of the Zero Requiem is that Lelouch became such a monster that it overwhelmed any previous animosities people had towards each other. He's spilled enough blood to make people forget about 'Princess Massacre', so why shouldn't that apply to Cornelia's actions?

Not that that makes any sense, but it's a core part of the finale.
That the Zero Requiem actually worked is (more) proof that people in Code Geass are generally a very gullible bunch. If Schneizel could successfully dupe Colonel Tohdoh and the rest of the Black Knight/UFN leadership into following him (of course, Ohgi's betrayal didn't help matters in that situation either), of course Lelouch could successfully get away with burying Cornelia's crimes as part of his harebrained Zero Requiem.

[jseah]

With all other recommendations of the more known series, allow me to recommend something different.

I don't put much stock in the popular series as I find that what other people like alot is rather hit-and-miss with me. Thus, my recommendations will be focused on the less well-known series.

For less action related stuff, you can find my post on slice of life here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15446256&postcount=15).


Denno Coil
A science-fiction/action/adventure/slice of life/coming-of-age story that I heartily recommend. My favourite anime ever.
Explores philosophical points about the border between reality and virtual but remains light-hearted and grounded in the issues of the children.
Interesting action scenes and a good mystery/adventure that explores the setting and plot. Good comedic moments and characterization. A well-matching soundtrack.


Jinrui wa Suitai Shima****a (Humanity Has Declined)
Absolutely ridiculously hilarious. If the first two episodes don't make you roll on the floor and scratch your head with sheer "wtf", you must be an alien.
Cutting wit and parody, must watch!


MaoYuu Mao Yuusha
What happens in a fantasy story if the bad and good guys decide to work together to improve the world? This runs alot like a D&D group who have made it their mission to end the medieval stasis.
Complete with poor characterization but insanely brilliant moments and setting manipulation.


Shin Sekai Yori (From the New World)
Not much to say here if I'm to avoid spoilers. But this series is really big on world-building and Big Reveals. So much so that there's 4-5 Big Reveals That Explain Everything (or not as you find out in the next arc).


Uuchu no Stellvia (Stellvia of the Universe)
A more traditional linear story. 200 years after an apocalypse, Katase Shima goes to school in space.
It feels alot like the SF version of Harry Potter but better written. Also, it's rare to have a protagonist who's good at math, but Katase is also a genius programmer on top of that. ("Security? Oh, that, I turned that off. ")
Also, their curriculum has some elements of the International Baccalaureate. =X


Utawarerumono
A small village in Feudal Japan picks up a strange masked person and he solves their problems. Which includes a revolt against their superior... and it escalates from there, and keeps escalating.
The scope expands as the series continues, from the troubles of one village to one country and then the known world.


To Aru Kagaku no Railgun (A Certain Scientific Railgun)
Ah, Railgun. What Index should have been.
Action-packed with an interesting setting. Feels alot like superheroes without the annoying (to me) bits.


Yoku Wakaru Gendai Mahou (Comprehensible Modern Magic)
And my complimentary guilty pleasure. Comprehensible Modern Magic is not a well-known series for a reason, that being that its pretty mediocre.
Nevertheless, its charming in its own way.


Dark side stuff
Sword Art Online. It's only here because of certain elements that it shares with the darker/pandering side of anime. A pretty good series overall and you can start with it, but SAO does contain tropes and references that those... ahem, familiar with them will recognize.

Strike Witches is popular among a... certain segment of anime watchers. Hm, I wonder why. Definitely not something for a newbie.

Omamori Himari... wasn't good at all, but it's an example of a series that is definitely on the dark side of action anime. Muhahaha. Touch this at your own risk.

[HamHam]

Denno Coil is amazing.

MaoYuu had potential but the finished product is boring, flat, somehow both rushed and meandering at the same time... basically it's a mess.

[Prime32]

MaoYuu had potential but the finished product is boring, flat, somehow both rushed and meandering at the same time... basically it's a mess.The anime sure. The "Hero, become mine!" "I refuse!" manga is far superior.

[Mr.Bookworm]

The anime sure. The "Hero, become mine!" "I refuse!" manga is far superior.

Note that there are literally four or five different mangas of the series, for some reason, so you do want the one with that particular subtitle. I agree that it's the superior version.

And I'll second Dennou Coil and Humanity Has Declined from the above post. Both are awesome in completely and totally different ways.

[HamHam]

The anime sure. The "Hero, become mine!" "I refuse!" manga is far superior.

This is an anime recommendations thread.

[Velaryon]

Blood+'s pacing was absolutely glacial, taking 50 episodes to tell a story that could have easily been told in 24-26. There was also the way that people like David, Lewis, and Kai were rendered superfluous thanks to authorial fiat.

I definitely agree with this. While I didn't hate any episodes, and there wasn't any one time that I felt an episode was out of place or broke the flow of the narrative, a lot of it could have been condensed. In particular, the beginning took far too long to get going, and Saya's reluctance to fight chiropterans seemed artificially drawn out to pad the series length quite a bit. However, I felt that it was worth the trouble getting into, and even though I felt the series could and should have been done in fewer episodes, I was left wanting more, which is always good.

And honestly, sometimes you're lucky just to get an ending at all when it comes to anime. Many otherwise great anime just sort of stop in the middle because funding ran out or whatever, so they never reached the ending.