The Oracle's Answers

[Mollez]

I didn't see anyone touching on this, so...I thought I'd go back and see how the Oracle's answers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) were shaping up. What we learned then versus what's happened since and where we are now.

Durkon: "How will I finally be returning to my beloved dwarven homelands?"
Oracle: "Posthumously."

This takes on a sinister new meaning now that Durkon is a vampire. Now that he's post-living (I don't want to get into a dead-not dead-undead debate), he might just return to his home as a vampire.

Vaarsuvius: "How will I achieve complete and total arcane power?"
Oracle: "By saying the right four words to the right being at the right time for all the wrong reasons."

Now, I think one of the theories is that this already happened...but I don't buy that. V never had "total arcane power". V was never unstoppable, clearly; the fight with Xykon proves that. V just had an awful lot of power for a short time. I think that moment might be coming up. Like, maybe the words are "Roy, destroy the gate", and it's the right thing to do and the right time but V is doing it because of the fiends. I don't know. I'm watching carefully.

Haley(translated): "What can I do to restore my speech?"
Oracle: "When the gift horse comes calling, don't look it in the mouth."

This one is rather obvious. Haley didn't question "Elan" wanting to date her, and that ended up leading to getting her voice back. She even explains this in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0568.html).

Elan: "Will this story have a happy ending?"
Oracle: "Yes--for you, at least."

Pretty self-explanatory. We don't know what happy ending that will be, but Elan gets a happy ending. Woo.

Belkar: "Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Roy, Vaarsuvius, or you?"
Oracle: "Yes."

And he does. Even if you don't believe all the crackpot stuff, he definitely stabs the Oracle to death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html). (Don't worry, he got better (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html)!)

Lastly...

Roy: "There are two magical gates that Xykon might try to control next: Girard's Gate, on the western continent, or Kraagor's Gate, near the northern polar cap.
If the lich sorcerer commonly referred to as 'Xykon' will ever be, at some future point in time, within a 1000-foot radius of one of these two magical gates, of which of those locations will he be within said radius first, chronologically?"
Oracle(after some griping): "Of those two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first."

Even though this was, at the time, a huge subversion (the gate he DIDN'T mention was the one Xykon was attacking,) this seems like it's going to be relevant soon. Xykon will get within at least 1000 feet of Girard's gate, while it still exists. And he really is going there BEFORE the other gate. He isn't faking us out again.

What do you guys think? How do you think these prophecies will manifest themselves? Thoughts, theories, ridiculous epi trees?

[Forbiddenwar]

Vaarsuvius: "How will I achieve complete and total arcane power?"
Oracle: "By saying the right four words to the right being at the right time for all the wrong reasons."

Now, I think one of the theories is that this already happened...but I don't buy that. V never had "total arcane power". V was never unstoppable, clearly; the fight with Xykon proves that. V just had an awful lot of power for a short time. I think that moment might be coming up. Like, maybe the words are "Roy, destroy the gate", and it's the right thing to do and the right time but V is doing it because of the fiends. I don't know. I'm watching carefully.


The Giant has confirmed this, however. V did have ultimate arcane power, by saying "I . . . I must succeed." to herself. It was for all the wrong reasons (to prove herself superior, not to save her family, since there was a better and easier way). X defeated V not through superior arcane power, but through poor will saves. And no where does it say "Arcane Power = unstoppable" People also contemplate what would have happened if that X vs V combat happened when V still had all three splices.

So like it or not, V's prophecy has already been fulfilled, at least according to the author.

Which leaves only Durkon's prophecies That he will return home and (On the Origin of the PCs spoiler)

Destroy it ( i think, I'm away from the book)


And Elan's, although some might think he already got his happy ending. It was an illusion, but it was still a ending and it was a happy one.

[137beth]

"ultimate" also referred to the fact that he/she got access to every kind of arcane spellcasting that he does not have: necromancy, conjuration, and spontaneous casting.

[thereaper]

The Giant has confirmed this, however. V did have ultimate arcane power, by saying "I . . . I must succeed." to herself. It was for all the wrong reasons (to prove herself superior, not to save her family, since there was a better and easier way). X defeated V not through superior arcane power, but through poor will saves. And no where does it say "Arcane Power = unstoppable" People also contemplate what would have happened if that X vs V combat happened when V still had all three splices.

So like it or not, V's prophecy has already been fulfilled, at least according to the author.

Which leaves only Durkon's prophecies That he will return home and (On the Origin of the PCs spoiler)

Destroy it ( i think, I'm away from the book)


And Elan's, although some might think he already got his happy ending. It was an illusion, but it was still a ending and it was a happy one.

The story will have a happy ending for him.

The story has not ended yet, therefore the illusion can't count.

[Macros]

V's arcane power was pretty much "ultimate" in the sense that I doubt any kind of caster got as much raw power as he, ever. But it's hardly the fiends (or the Oracle) problem that he was inept at wielding it.

As for Xykon being near Girard's Gate hile it's still standing... for all we know, he already is in a 1000-foot radius. Well, okay, maybe not right now, but he's closing in, and since things are going to hell (literaly) at the Gate, I think he has time to make an appearence. At the worst possible moment, of course.

[ChristianSt]

Which leaves only Durkon's prophecies That he will return home and (On the Origin of the PCs spoiler)

Destroy it ( i think, I'm away from the book)


"When next he returns home, he will bring death and destruction for us all".

But this isn't a prophecy from the Oracle, it is from the High Priest of Odin (or some other priest of Odin, it isn't specified that he is the High Priest, but he has similar clothing like the High Priest of Thor). So while I think it is a true prophecy, it could even be a false one (we don't see any Oracle-trance-mode, he only talks normally to the High Priest of Thor).
And it is a bit uncertain what is meant with "home"(Dwarven lands? Temple of Thor? Some other location?), and how large "death and destruction" will be, and even who is "us all"(All dwarves? The Priesthood of Odin and/or Thor? Maybe even all humanoids?).

[malloyd]

"When next he returns home, he will bring death and destruction for us all".

But this isn't a prophecy from the Oracle, it is from the High Priest of Odin (or some other priest of Odin, it isn't specified that he is the High Priest, but he has similar clothing like the High Priest of Thor). So while I think it is a true prophecy, it could even be a false one (we don't see any Oracle-trance-mode, he only talks normally to the High Priest of Thor).
And it is a bit uncertain what is meant with "home"(Dwarven lands? Temple of Thor? Some other location?), and how large "death and destruction" will be, and even who is "us all"(All dwarves? The Priesthood of Odin and/or Thor? Maybe even all humanoids?).


Further obscuring the point, Nergal (Malack's god) is the god of "death and destruction", and Dwarves currently seem to have a rather impoverished set of afterlife choices....

[NerdyKris]

Now, I think one of the theories is that this already happened...but I don't buy that. V never had "total arcane power". V was never unstoppable, clearly; the fight with Xykon proves that. V just had an awful lot of power for a short time. I think that moment might be coming up. Like, maybe the words are "Roy, destroy the gate", and it's the right thing to do and the right time but V is doing it because of the fiends. I don't know. I'm watching carefully.


That's not a theory, that's a statement of fact by the author in both the commentary and on this board. See the Index of the Giant's Comments thread for the quote. (edit- no, it's not)

Ultimate doesn't mean "unstoppable". Neither does "total". V was the most powerful spellcaster ever. But having a nuclear bomb against a group of knights on horseback doesn't do squat if you launch it at the wrong side of the continent.

[Ellye]

@OP:

You missed the whole point about V's prophecy and the speak Xykon gave her.

It wasn't "ultimate power". It was "ultimate arcane power". The whole point of Xykon's speak to V was that arcane power wasn't the only type of power that mattered - every kind of power was important and oddly balanced.

V had more arcane power than anyone who has ever lived in the OotSverse. But he still had low hit points, low saving throws, negligible physical strength, terrible battle tactics, terrible preparations, negligible equipment...

V was easily defeated because she thought that "ultimate arcane power" meant "ultimate power". She thought herself the most powerful creature in the world, but she ended up being beaten because of the qualities she lacked. Xykon was much more prepared for battle, having appropriate magical items and having allies by his side that complimented his abilities. He had much better battle tactics, due to having actual experience battling powerful Wizards. And he also was physically much, much stronger than V.

Even the very first thing that happens when V teleports to that room is that she loses her surprise round and her casting of Time Stop because she blew an easy skill check, because her Ultimate Arcane Power didn't came bundled with Ultimate Skill Ranks.

[Mollez]

The Giant has confirmed this, however. V did have ultimate arcane power, by saying "I . . . I must succeed." to herself. It was for all the wrong reasons (to prove herself superior, not to save her family, since there was a better and easier way). X defeated V not through superior arcane power, but through poor will saves. And no where does it say "Arcane Power = unstoppable" People also contemplate what would have happened if that X vs V combat happened when V still had all three splices.

So like it or not, V's prophecy has already been fulfilled, at least according to the author.

Can I have a source on this? I'm not calling you a liar, but I haven't seen this.

[ChristianSt]

Can I have a source on this? I'm not calling you a liar, but I haven't seen this.

The source is DStP, Round 7: Deus Elf Machina commentary (just before strip 623).

Since it is book-commentary it is off-limit for the Index of the Giant's Comments, so without getting a look at the book, there is not really a possibility for you to see it. (If you are really lucky the Giant will say it here, but I wouldn't count on that)

[Ellye]

Can I have a source on this? I'm not calling you a liar, but I haven't seen this.It's in the commentary of DStP.

[WowWeird]

Just jumping on the bandwagon- yeah, the Giant confirmed that V's prophecy was fulfilled in DSTP commentary. If I remember (I don't have the book nearby at the moment) he actually did a word-by-word breakdown of the prophecy - Complete set of soul splices, with Total access to all their abilities, etc. So it's not just an interpretation thing - he's very explicit.
As for Elan's prophecy, I'm a little skeptical that the phantasm could be classified as an ending. Elan asked if "this" story would have a happy ending, and though that's a little ambiguous, I doubt he meant any story with an endpoint set around the middle of the second-to-last dungeon. But, as Tarquin put it, 'There are no endings, only places where the storyteller stops talking.'
WaXP commentary

[137beth]

Just jumping on the bandwagon- yeah, the Giant confirmed that V's prophecy was fulfilled in DSTP commentary. If I remember (I don't have the book nearby at the moment) he actually did a word-by-word breakdown of the prophecy - Complete set of soul splices, with Total access to all their abilities, etc. So it's not just an interpretation thing - he's very explicit.
As for Elan's prophecy, I'm a little skeptical that the phantasm could be classified as an ending. Elan asked if "this" story would have a happy ending, and though that's a little ambiguous, I doubt he meant any story with an endpoint set around the middle of the second-to-last dungeon. But, as Tarquin put it, 'There are no endings, only places where the storyteller stops talking.'
WaXP commentary

Yea, IIRC (AFB right now) he said it was ultimate in the sense that it was more arcane power than any other mortal had ever had (up to that point), and "complete" in that it contained all the types of arcane casting which V normally doesn't have: Spontaneous casting, necromancy, and conjuration. The being V is saying the four words to is V him/herself (he/she is speaking to hirself when s/he says "I...I must succeed"). The wrong reasons part is because V is not doing it to save V's family, or to stop Xykon, but to prove to him/herself that he/she is sufficently powerful to meet his/her own standard. He/she didn't want to admit to him/herself than he/she was not capable of solving everything with arcane might. That was the wrong reason to make a deal with the IFCC.

[WindStruck]

Further obscuring the point, Nergal (Malack's god) is the god of "death and destruction", and Dwarves currently seem to have a rather impoverished set of afterlife choices....


...so, it may be that Durkon merely brings the religion of following Nergal to the Dwarven lands and doesn't actually kill everyone? :smallamused:

[Mollez]

The source is DStP, Round 7: Deus Elf Machina commentary (just before strip 623).

Since it is book-commentary it is off-limit for the Index of the Giant's Comments, so without getting a look at the book, there is not really a possibility for you to see it. (If you are really lucky the Giant will say it here, but I wouldn't count on that)


It's in the commentary of DStP.


Just jumping on the bandwagon- yeah, the Giant confirmed that V's prophecy was fulfilled in DSTP commentary. If I remember (I don't have the book nearby at the moment) he actually did a word-by-word breakdown of the prophecy - Complete set of soul splices, with Total access to all their abilities, etc. So it's not just an interpretation thing - he's very explicit.
As for Elan's prophecy, I'm a little skeptical that the phantasm could be classified as an ending. Elan asked if "this" story would have a happy ending, and though that's a little ambiguous, I doubt he meant any story with an endpoint set around the middle of the second-to-last dungeon. But, as Tarquin put it, 'There are no endings, only places where the storyteller stops talking.'
WaXP commentary


Yea, IIRC (AFB right now) he said it was ultimate in the sense that it was more arcane power than any other mortal had ever had (up to that point), and "complete" in that it contained all the types of arcane casting which V normally doesn't have: Spontaneous casting, necromancy, and conjuration. The being V is saying the four words to is V him/herself (he/she is speaking to hirself when s/he says "I...I must succeed"). The wrong reasons part is because V is not doing it to save V's family, or to stop Xykon, but to prove to him/herself that he/she is sufficently powerful to meet his/her own standard. He/she didn't want to admit to him/herself than he/she was not capable of solving everything with arcane might. That was the wrong reason to make a deal with the IFCC.

Thanks! Very informative, now I know. :smallsmile:



Further obscuring the point, Nergal (Malack's god) is the god of "death and destruction", and Dwarves currently seem to have a rather impoverished set of afterlife choices....



...so, it may be that Durkon merely brings the religion of following Nergal to the Dwarven lands and doesn't actually kill everyone? :smallamused:

I really like this idea. I never thought of that. They have made a point of showing that dwarves don't end up with the best lot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html). (There's at least one more comic depicting this but I can't find it.) It would be cool if that was all foreshadowing.