Concentration and Constitution

[Sparkzlight]

Why the heck is concentration constitution? It should be wisdom or charisma, possibly.

Does anybody think that this makes sense whatsoever? Is it just because there's a lack of constitution based skills?

[ArcturusV]

Possibly. But it also makes sense in a certain context. I mean usually if you're making a constitution check, what happened was someone just put something pointy into you. Least that was the idea that the designers seemed to have. You just got AoOed or Ready Action Arrowed, etc. So it made sense as Con because you were trying to hold your constitution through the wave of pain that is being stabbed, etc.

Of course that's not how it does happen practically. Casting Defensively is piss easy and more common. Or casting in an area of distraction like a hurricane. Which I guess makes some sense as Constitution as you're trying to ride out and ignore the effects of driving rain, high winds, etc.

[limejuicepowder]

I still think it makes a lot more sense to be based on wisdom. Any and all uses of concentration revolve around ignoring distractions and keeping focused on the task at hand. Mental discipline. That's pretty clearly wisdom, IMO.

[eggynack]

Well, obviously it's because they start with the same three letters.

[TuggyNE]

Why the heck is concentration constitution? It should be wisdom or charisma, possibly.

Does anybody think that this makes sense whatsoever? Is it just because there's a lack of constitution based skills?

More the opposite; pegging it to any mental stat would make casters that use that stat too strong, and at the time 3.x was being designed, it was thought that most casters would be squishy, perhaps dumping Con.

So basically, a somewhat misguided attempt at game balance, as near as I can figure.

[Slipperychicken]

Because the main function is about resisting or supressing pain while casting?

[ryu]

Have you ever attempted to hold focus on something for an extended period of time? Bonus points for something complex? Concentration isn't a matter of noticing some faint detail, being the life of the party, or even learning things efficiently. It's the ability to endure things on a mental level despite distractions and dangers. Tell me what was the stat for enduring things again?

[Chronos]

You're toughing it out, ignoring the pain. That feels reasonably Constitution-ish to me.

[SiuiS]

Why the heck is concentration constitution? It should be wisdom or charisma, possibly.

Does anybody think that this makes sense whatsoever? Is it just because there's a lack of constitution based skills?

Shallow monks first began to practice Kung fu as an exercise system. They did so specifically to give them the physical endurance necessary to meditate for hours at a time.

Concentration is hard. It really is. Hours-long, focused diligence is not a mental skill, it is very definitely governed by constitution.

[Sparkzlight]

You're toughing it out, ignoring the pain. That feels reasonably Constitution-ish to me.
I see. I always thought it was more about mental fortitude.

[Grinner]

Shallow monks first began to practice Kung fu as an exercise system. They did so specifically to give them the physical endurance necessary to meditate for hours at a time.

Concentration is hard. It really is. Hours-long, focused diligence is not a mental skill, it is very definitely governed by constitution.

I think that kind of focus is definitely a function of endurance of some kind, but on the other hand, what attribute is used for willpower?

I think the easiest answer here is "D&D doesn't make sense. Ever."

[Gildedragon]

Willpower is based of: Cha in fluff, wis in crunch.

[Deophaun]

I think that kind of focus is definitely a function of endurance of some kind, but on the other hand, what attribute is used for willpower?"
Well, I've got two answers for you, as there's no "Willpower" save.

Instead, we have two synonyms. First, there's Will, which is Wisdom, and then there's Fortitude, which is Constitution.

[Grinner]

Well, I've got two answers for you, as there's no "Willpower" save.

Semantics has its place. Pedantry, not as much.


Instead, we have two synonyms. First, there's Will, which is Wisdom, and then there's Fortitude, which is Constitution.

The first of which deals with willpower (i.e. Charm or Dominate), among many other things, and the second of which represents the body's ability to deal with trauma. Ostensibly, at least. I don't know, really. There might be some obscure illusion that targets Fortitude.

Again, D&D doesn't make sense.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Have you ever attempted to hold focus on something for an extended period of time? Bonus points for something complex? Concentration isn't a matter of noticing some faint detail, being the life of the party, or even learning things efficiently. It's the ability to endure things on a mental level despite distractions and dangers. Tell me what was the stat for enduring things again?

Bingo, that's exactly why it uses Con.

[Deophaun]

Semantics has its place. Pedantry, not as much.
This is what happens when you miss the point.

Fortitude is not a word that describes the body's resistance to poison or disease. It's a word that means "courage." AKA: Willpower.

[Grinner]

This is what happens when you miss the point.

Fortitude is not a word that describes the body's resistance to poison or disease. It's a word that means "courage." AKA: Willpower.

And yet that's exactly what it's used for.

[Deophaun]

And yet that's exactly what it's used for.
:smallsigh:

Where's an eyeroll smilie when you need one?

[limejuicepowder]

Hehe. It seems it's evening split over which score it should be tied to. Perhaps the game developers had this exact same discussion, and decided it with a coin toss, knowing they'd be making ~50% of the players scratch their heads in confusion either way.

[Grinner]

:smallsigh:

Where's an eyeroll smilie when you need one?

If you think I'm missing something, then explain it.

Your dictionary defines fortitude as a thing of willpower, and in certain usages, that's absolutely true. It's also used to refer to physical resistance, as in "intestinal fortitude". But we're not talking about your dictionary nor some flowery prose.

Language is a slippery thing.


Hehe. It seems it's evening split over which score it should be tied to. Perhaps the game developers had this exact same discussion, and decided it with a coin toss, knowing they'd be making ~50% of the players scratch their heads in confusion either way.

Honestly, both sides have good points. Physical training will certainly greatly ease the burden of a long period of strain, but the ability to maintain focus is a mental one.

I'm going ArcturusV's theory that they did it for balance reasons, seeing how much the rules for it focus on spellcasting.

[navar100]

Well, obviously it's because they start with the same three letters.

Hey, you're right! It's all just a con.

[Jeff the Green]

Shallow monks

So, these are the ones that make vows to wear the latest fashions?


Fortitude is not a word that describes the body's resistance to poison or disease. It's a word that means "courage." AKA: Willpower.

That's only one usage, and not the primary one in my mind. It comes from fortis, "strong," and includes the ability to endure.

[ryu]

See previous points made about mental endurance and real world monks training up their bodies to be better at maintaining meditation.