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GreenETC
2013-06-30, 10:02 AM
My DM wants to have us play a one shot level 20 campaign, and since nobody else is up to the, admittedly daunting, task of playing a caster, I'm going to be the only one. I am a Counterspelling focused Master Specialist/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, using Divine Defiance and Veils to stop pretty much anything. However, I've run into the problem of which schools to ban. We are expected to be going down into the Abyss to fight demons, and this is where I'm having my problems, as I stare at the stat block of a Balor. Conjuration, Transmutation, Divination, and Abjuration are necessities which leaves:

Enchantment: Most things are immune to mind effecting spells, but I don't believe most demons make that cut. With my current focus, overcoming SR should be pretty easy for taking control of demons if I wanted. On the downside, Enchantment sucks and has less spells than any other school.

Evocation: Mostly bad, but there are a few gems, Contingency being one. Shadow Evocation cannot reproduce it, and Craft Contingent Spell is not allowed, so if I want it, I have to go whole hog, and there are other spells like Resilient Sphere that could be helpful.

Illusion: Overall an amazing school, but I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that most everything at this point that we'd be expected to fight will have constant True Seeing, which I believe beats all the good spells like Blur or Mirror Image. Not to mention the lack of Greater Shadow Evocation Contingency hurts it tremendously.

Necromancy: I'd like to avoid it, but Enervation is just calling out to me. The spell seems like the perfect way to prevent a TPK from Blasphemy, and I'm sure there's plenty of other demons with strong CL based abilities. Plus Death Ward is there, which could help my party tremendously, saving money on death effect prevention items.

I'm really at a loss for which two to lose, as each one has a specific niche where it will be incredibly strong. Can anyone help me try and sort this out?

Flickerdart
2013-06-30, 10:11 AM
Why are you a Focused Specialist? At your level, spell slots are bountiful.

GreenETC
2013-06-30, 10:35 AM
Why are you a Focused Specialist? At your level, spell slots are bountiful.
My apologies, by focused I meant that my build is focused on counterspelling, not that I am a Focused Specialist. I would never want to be a Focused Specialist Abjurer anyway, but yes, at this level there's no reason for me to be.

fryplink
2013-06-30, 10:37 AM
I'd ban Necromancy and Enchantment myself and/or Evocation if need be. Necromany has a lot of effects that are duplicated similarly elsewhere. Mind Blank turns Enchantment off. I like Evocation because of it's gems, plus it gives you an option every turn other than "outshine the rest of the party".

I wouldn't dump illusion because, while true sight turns the school off, the Shadow "X" spells are extremely versatile, even if you are unable to duplicate contingency with them.

Don't worry about losing enervation. If you really want to do negative level damage, take the Fell Drain feat and call it a day. It's hysterical when combined with magic missile (I'm pretty sure there is an errata somewhere that says the negative levels won't be applied with each missile, but it's amazing against small groups).

Karnith
2013-06-30, 12:07 PM
If you're going to specialize, Enchantment and either Necromancy or Evocation are the go-to choices. Enchantment resistance/immunity to mind-affecting effects is incredibly common, so unless you think you're only going to be facing demons taken straight out of the MM (with no items, class levels, or different feat choices), I'd recommend dumping it. Necromancy's debuffs are really strong, but you can get access to similarly-powered effects in other schools, so unless you're really set on using Enervation I'd recommend dropping it, but do note that it means you miss out on Astral Projection, probably the safest way to hang out in the Abyss.

I'm pretty sure there is an errata somewhere that says the negative levels won't be applied with each missile
No need for an errata; a Fell Drained spell gives one negative level to any creature damaged by the spell. A creature is damaged by a Fell Drained Magic Missile whether it gets hit with one missile or with five, so the negative level will only trigger once per creature damaged.

Rubik
2013-06-30, 12:28 PM
Necromancy's debuffs are really strong, but you can get access to similarly-powered effects in other schools, so unless you're really set on using Enervation I'd recommend dropping it, but do note that it means you miss out on Astral Projection, probably the safest way to hang out in the Abyss.Astral Projection is easily nabbable through Conjuration, as nightmares can use it at will, and they're easy to Planar Bind by level 20.

I'd kill Necromancy for sure, and replicate its effects through Conjuration for summons and calling, as well as the Fell Drain feat.

I'd also heavily consider killing off Enchantment as well, due to most things being immune or highly resistant.

Look into heavy use of Conjuration to Planar Bind or summon things to use these for you. Most things in both of them aren't self-only, and thus can be pulled in from elsewhere.

GreenETC
2013-06-30, 12:39 PM
Astral Projection is easily nabbable through Conjuration, as nightmares can use it at will, and they're easy to Planar Bind by level 20.
I was actually tempted to go Necromancy for Astral Projection first, but then I saw the "if the body is hit by a Dispel Magic" clause, and I was a little worried, though Spellblades can probably help ease my fear.

mattie_p
2013-06-30, 12:54 PM
You know, a 1-level cleric dip might be real nice here. Not only do you get cleric wands and such, you can take the inquisition domain for +4 to all your dispel checks, not just cleric ones. Yes you lose an 8th and 9th level spell slot, but +4 to dispel checks is nothing to sneeze at if that is your focus.

Rubik
2013-06-30, 12:55 PM
I was actually tempted to go Necromancy for Astral Projection first, but then I saw the "if the body is hit by a Dispel Magic" clause, and I was a little worried, though Spellblades can probably help ease my fear.Don't worry; nightmares get it as a supernatural ability. (Protip: Supernatural abilities are undispellable.)

Karnith
2013-06-30, 12:58 PM
You know, a 1-level cleric dip might be real nice here. Not only do you get cleric wands and such, you can take the inquisition domain for +4 to all your dispel checks, not just cleric ones. Yes you lose an 8th and 9th level spell slot, but +4 to dispel checks is nothing to sneeze at if that is your focus.
Well, he's using Divine Defiance, so presumably he's already dipped into cleric.

GreenETC
2013-06-30, 01:03 PM
Well, he's using Divine Defiance, so presumably he's already dipped into cleric.
And not only that but I've been allowed to use the Dragon Mag 347 ACF to double the bonus of a domain at the sacrifice of another domain, so I've got dispelling under lock and key. My build is basically solidified outside of one spell school to ban besides Enchantment and a single feat at level 18, which has now been changed from Lifebond to Fell Drain.

And of course all the spells I need to shove into my Boccob's Blessed Book.

mattie_p
2013-06-30, 01:09 PM
Well, he's using Divine Defiance, so presumably he's already dipped into cleric.

Oh, missed that. Also, the cleric dip wasn't spelled out in the OP. GreenETC, note you'll need practiced spellcaster (cleric) in order to qualify for divine defiance.

Can we see your full proposed build with feats?

GreenETC
2013-06-30, 01:29 PM
Necropolitan Naenkrau Illumian
Abjurer 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Master Specialist 10/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Archmage 1
Inquisition and Undeath Domain

1. Precocious Apprentice
F. Spell Focus: Abjuration
3. Spell Focus: Conjuration
C. Extra Turning (Undeath Domain)
6. Divine Defiance (Using Krau sigil to qualify)
9. Arcane Mastery
12 Quicken Spell
15 Chain Spell
18 Fell Drain

I have been allowed to be made a Necropolitan by a Dread Necromancer with Corpsecrafter, Bolster Resistance, and Nimble Bones in an area of Desecration with an Alter. And Precocious Apprentice has been allowed to qualify me for MS early, so no worries there.

Mishkov
2013-06-30, 06:58 PM
At this level, in the abyss, anything that's not consistently mind blanked and doesn't have true seeing, your big stupid fighter friends can destroy in a few rounds.

So, barring other specialized tactics (that you DO have at your disposal), I'd ban illusion and enchantment.

If you are planning on doing things like blasting people with antimagic rays/dropping an antimagic field on your fighter and have him charge in, or using other measures to strip their defenses, and then hit them with illusions or enchantments, then change your bans. I really feel like evocation is undervalued--there are some fun tricks.

Necromancy is another potential ban. A lot of things are immune to ability drain/negative energy.

Eldariel
2013-06-30, 07:47 PM
Enchantment and Necromancy. If you can't get Contingency/Instant Refuge otherwise, Evocation has slight edges over Necro and Simulacrum > Animate Dead for minions.