Essentia is bugging me (Magic of Incarnum)

[NevinPL]

Hello

So I'm trying something new, but can't wrap my head around Essentia because, (standard) magic, psionics, whatever is: "/day". I know you need to have clear mind, good night sleep, etc., to shape soulmeds, but that's not what's bugging me. What's bugging me is, do Essentia points are used up, vanish, or just "float" around in un an in-vested state ?

Example:
If a 4th level Incarnate, with 4 Essentia points, invests 1 EP into a:
- weapon or,
- soulmeld or,
- chakra bind or,
- feat.
How much do he has left ?


P.S. #1
Your "welcome newbie" message, is directing to very old, and very closed hello thread.

P.S. #2
Is there's no "Search", because I can't seem to find it, neither general one, nor search thread ?

[Keld Denar]

The easiest way to think about essentia is that you have a bunch of stones or glass beads or something sitting in front of you. Now, put down a bunch of index cards and write on them "Totem Chakra" or "Incarnate Weapon" or something to remind you what you have bound where. The Essentia just sits in front of you in a pile. On your turn, as a swift action, you can take any or all of your counters and put them on as many of your cards as you want. You can also take them off of any card and put them on any other card, or just leave them in front of you in a pile.

The only thing you CAN'T take essentia out of is feats. Nearly all of the Incarnum feats have a special caveat that locks the essentia in them for 24 hours. Other than that, you are free to reinvest any or all of your essentia anywhere you want (up to the limit) any time you want at the expense of a swift action.

EDIT 1: Welcome!

EDIT 2: Forum search is turned off. See Board Issues forum for details (if you care). An easy work around is to go to google and type in "site:giantitp.com XXXX" where XXXX is whatever you want to search for. That uses the google search engine to search only a specific site (namedly giantitp). It works a lot better than the forum search ever did, and probably ever will ever again.

[Glimbur]

Another analogy about essentia I like is the star ship. You have a certain amount of power from your reactor, and you have various places you can put it. Full power to shields? Sure, but your weapons and engines will suffer. Maybe you need to put more energy into your trans-morphic spangbobulator so you can deal with the Threat of the Week. Or you can put a balanced amount in normal stuff, for general use.

The analogy breaks down both with Incarnum Feats, which lock essentia in, and with the fact that you can reshape soulmelds every day so you don't always have, say, shields. But it might help you to remember that essentia is a fluid resource you can usually move around freely.

Keld's idea about a bunch of cards and beads is a good one. For bonus points, you can write the effect of each soulmeld right on the card.

[BowStreetRunner]

Essentia = Energizer Batteries (or Duracell if you prefer). You have a whole bunch of appliances (soulmelds, feats, class features and other abilities) that all require batteries, but only a limited number of batteries to divide between them. Each day you decide how many batteries to put in each appliance. Many of these appliances work better if you put more batteries in them. The next day, you may reallocate your batteries to different appliances if you like. In many cases you may even decide to hold some batteries back and decide in which appliances to use them as the day goes by. Your total batteries available for the day determines how many appliances you can power, and your character level also determines the maximum number of batteries you can allocate to any single appliance.

[Rubik]

Essentia = Energizer Batteries (or Duracell if you prefer). You have a whole bunch of appliances (soulmelds, feats, class features and other abilities) that all require batteries, but only a limited number of batteries to divide between them. Each day you decide how many batteries to put in each appliance. Many of these appliances work better if you put more batteries in them. The next day, you may reallocate your batteries to different appliances if you like. In many cases you may even decide to hold some batteries back and decide in which appliances to use them as the day goes by. Your total batteries available for the day determines how many appliances you can power, and your character level also determines the maximum number of batteries you can allocate to any single appliance.Except you can reallocate as a swift action each round.

[NevinPL]

Thank you for your responses.

In that case, Incarnum is underpowered as Hades. Incarnate on higher levels manages to "limp through", but Soulborn fails miserably. That's probably why you don't need to be an "Incarnum class" to use Incarnum - only way to make it work: take other classes, and augment them with Incarnum feats.

[Rubik]

Thank you for your responses.

In that case, Incarnum is underpowered as Hades. Incarnate on higher levels manages to "limp through", but Soulborn fails miserably. That's probably why you don't need to be an "Incarnum class" to use Incarnum - only way to make it work: take other classes, and augment them with Incarnum feats.Totemist is quite powerful, actually. Incarnates are a bit on the weak side, though brimming with utilitarian function. And I have no idea what this "soulborn" you speak of is, but it sounds like Yamcha -- highly disappointing.

[Komatik]

Maybe it's a new name for Crusaders? Or Mystic Fire Knight?

[Darth Stabber]

Soulborn was the half of a class they printed in MoI to finish the half class that was soulknife.

But as was stated before totemists are vicious combatants, and incarnates are skill monkies extrordinaire.

[NevinPL]

And I have no idea what this "soulborn" you speak of is, but it sounds like Yamcha -- highly disappointing.
Living in trauma-induced denial, huh ? ;)

[Rubik]

Living in trauma-induced denial, huh ? ;)Nope. I can't hear anything you're saying.

Ooh, a yellow-bellied snarfblat! Peanut brittle! Sixty-one!

[Waker]

Thank you for your responses.

In that case, Incarnum is underpowered as Hades. Incarnate on higher levels manages to "limp through", but REDACTED fails miserably. That's probably why you don't need to be an "Incarnum class" to use Incarnum - only way to make it work: take other classes, and augment them with Incarnum feats.

Incarnum is a much weaker system when compared to straight up power that one can have when using spells. And while you can play one of the two Incarnum classes straight through, they tend to shine brightest when mixed with another class. Since you can learn your entire meld list with just a level and maximum essentia investment increases by character level rather than class level, Incarnum is exceptionally multi-class friendly.

[BowStreetRunner]

Since you can learn your entire meld list with just a level and maximum essentia investment increases by character level rather than class level, Incarnum is exceptionally multi-class friendly.

I've only just begun to learn about Incarnum myself and haven't figured out all of the nuances so please enlighten me. If you just dip an Incarnum class, how do you continue to increase the size of your Essentia pool to be able to power your melds up to your maximum investment allowed?

[Waker]

I've only just begun to learn about Incarnum myself and haven't figured out all of the nuances so please enlighten me. If you just dip an Incarnum class, how do you continue to increase the size of your Essentia pool to be able to power your melds up to your maximum investment allowed?

Most of the Incarnum feats give you essentia. There are certain items that can grant you temporary essentia, though I would have to rummage through the MiC to find them. Certain class features like the Soulcasters Magic Distillation lets you expend a spell to get more essentia or Necrocarnates can harves it from corpses.
Really, the biggest reason to stay in as an Incarnate or Totemist is for the extra essentia and total melds, though getting chakra points for free is nice too.

[Fouredged Sword]

You don't, but really consider the binds you seek to fill.

One bind takes 4 essence to fully charge. Thus, if you want to have one fully charge ability at a time, you just need one level in incarnate and one feat (any incarnum feat, you are one point shy). You can pick one combat meld, one utility meld, and one mobility meld, and have one powered fully at all times right through 20.

Or consider the mid to low level artificer, seeking every UMD boost he can get. So he takes shape soulmeld (mage's spectacles), giving him an essence and the ability to shape the soulmeld. It is better than skillfocus right off the bat. Now he can take extra essence for +2 essence, again better than skillfocus.

[Person_Man]

Thank you for your responses.

In that case, Incarnum is underpowered as Hades. Incarnate on higher levels manages to "limp through", but Soulborn fails miserably. That's probably why you don't need to be an "Incarnum class" to use Incarnum - only way to make it work: take other classes, and augment them with Incarnum feats.

Everyone agrees that the Soulborn is terrible. Here's my homebrew fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156441), and there are at least a dozen others floating around the forums as well.

Totemist and Incarnate are both Tier 3. Each class has one big thing that it does really well, and can fill in for other roles as needed. In particular, like full spellcasters they can change their soulmeld and chakra binds every day (and rebind them with class abilities), allowing them to change what role(s) they fill as needed.

Totemist is a melee offense monster, who is easily capable of getting 8+ melee attacks with lots of melee buffs, with a few good options for defense, mobility, ranged attacks, area of effect attacks, Save or Lose/Suck, and Skills. For example, at first level you can get unarmed strike + Claw/Claw/Tail (or wing buffet/wing buffet, if you're allowed material from Dragon Magazine). At second level, you can get unarmed strike + claw/claw/claw/claw/tail. At 6th level you've picked up a few utility abilities, 1-2 more attacks, and add Pounce. And so on.

Incarnate is amazing at defense, has one amazing Summons ability (Necrocarnum Circlet bound to Crown, which you get at second level), has some decent backup offensive abilities, and is great at certain Skills if know what you're doing. Most people make the mistake of playing the Incarnate as a low-rent Wizard or Soulknife. He sucks at that. He's ridiculously hard to kill, so his job is for him and his Summons to be the center of attention and try and lock down the main enemy so that his allies can do their jobs.

[Karnith]

Incarnate on higher levels manages to "limp through"
Actually, by the numbers even single-classed Incarnates hold up pretty admirably (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870566/Incarnate_by_the_numbers) compared to the numbers you can get out of other classes, in addition to the multitude of options offered by their soulmelds.

[undead hero]

Don't forget that the max number of essentia that you can place into any one receptor is determined by your character level...

At level 1 you can't dump all 3 or so essential into your Blue Steel Bracers. You can only place 1 unless you have a feat for it.

Like PP this is something that usually slips by.

[Karnith]

Don't forget that the max number of essentia that you can place into any one receptor is determined by your character level...

At level 1 you can't dump all 3 or so essential into your Blue Steel Bracers. You can only place 1 unless you have a feat for it.

Like PP this is something that usually slips by.
It bears mentioning that there are ways of increasing this limit (and it's a lot easier than getting past the PP limit); Incarnates get Expanded Soulmeld Capacity as a class feature, Totemists get an expanded capacity for soulmelds bound to their Totem chakra, and Incarnum Foci increase the soulmeld capacities of certain soulmelds, for instance.

[NevinPL]

Don't forget that the max number of essentia that you can place into any one receptor is determined by your character level...
Yeah, I know. Table 2–1, got me thinking that maybe Incarnum is better that I thought at first glance :(

[undead hero]

Yeah, I know. Table 2–1, got me thinking that maybe Incarnum is better that I thought at first glance :(

Incarnate better than you think.

Even with that cap the Incarnate/Totemist are fun as hell and can keep up with tier 3 classes.

Make a Goliath Totemist grappler sometime and go pick up a tarrasque.

Though really the Totemist is a tier 4 to tier 3 Druid.

[Nightraiderx]

incarnate 20 has the capacity to have 6 essentia for all their soulmelds and they get pretty good amounts of essentia, I think you can bind a soulmeld to a chakra you can shape a soulmeld on top of it. Could prove very nice. Incarnate can make decent melee gishes as well.

[Tulya]

I've always been put off that Incarnates weren't 3/4th BAB. Incarnum effects really don't feel like they offer more than Bardic casting, or anything else similar gish base classes get. Certainly, a great deal more flexibility than the spontaneous caster gishes, but not necessarily more than the prepared ones.

My impression on reading Magic of Incarnum was that Incarnates got 1/2 BAB simply to emphasize the differences in martial prowess between the three classes. If Soulborn never existed... mmm, full BAB Totemist.

[Person_Man]

I've only just begun to learn about Incarnum myself and haven't figured out all of the nuances so please enlighten me. If you just dip an Incarnum class, how do you continue to increase the size of your Essentia pool to be able to power your melds up to your maximum investment allowed?

Essentia is only important for certain soulmelds and/or chakra binds. A lot of them provide a very potent base ability without essentia. And there are various tricks for getting extra essentia, so keeping a small number of soulmelds "full" is rarely be a problem, and you can switch your essentia allocation as a Swift action as needed.

Maximum essentia capacity of each soulmeld is always a number between 1-8, and you only "need" 1 + your character level divided by 4 essentia for any particular soulmeld to be useful in most cases. (If it needs any at all, as mentioned above). The first 4 points scale off of your total hit dice. You can get up to +2 from Totemist (for soulmelds bound to your Totem chakra, with the first +1 coming at Totemist 2) or Incarnate levels (for Incarnate soulmelds, with the first 1 coming at Incarnate 3). You can get +1 for one soulmeld if you spend a Feat on it. And +1 for any soulmeld in a specific body slot if you spend a lot of money on a magic item. So you can just take 2 or 3 levels of either (or both) classes, maybe buy a magic item or take a feat, and you're good to go on essentia capacity.

You can get access to any soulmeld with the Shape Soulmeld Feat. This includes things like Diehard (for 1 Feat), at will Detect Magic or Undead, immunity to Flanking, immunity to Bull Rush, Uncanny Dodge, flight, an infinite healing trick, a variety of natural weapons, and many other solid options.

The Open Chakra Feats are poorly worded, and arguably give you an extra chakra bind. The Customer Service answer is that they do not, and that they only give you access to higher level chakra binds, not additional ones. (Thus you must take at least 2 levels of Totemist or Incarnate and then multiclass or enter a prestige class for the Open Chakra feats to be worthwhile). But if your DM is nice, it basically gives you access to a ton of great abilities without ever needing to take any levels of either class. (Though it's worth noting that you cannot access the Totem chakra with a Feat, or the Heart or Soul chakras pre-Epic).

Even if you follow the Cust Serv ruling, you can still get access to most higher level chakra binds for a minimal Incarnate or Totemist investment, and almost all of the abilities are continuous or at-will. This includes Mindlink, Telepathy, Animate Dead, (poorly worded) Greater Invisibility, Ethereal movement, Evasion, Displacement, Magic Circle, Suggestion, save or Daze, and other solid options.

You can also Open Chakra with spells and psionic powers, making it a tempting option for certain builds.

Totemist is just a great way to add lots of attacks, which is useful for certain triggered effects.

Incarnate is a great way to add +6 to +14 to pretty much any Skill for a fairly small investment. I know people who have taken 3 levels of Warlock just to take 10 on UMD, when Incarnate 3 can grant you +10 to UMD, Spellcraft, Decipher Script (Mage's Spectacles), +10 to Tumble, Balance, Escape Artist, Jump (Acrobat Boots), and one other soulmeld and chakra bind to use for offense/defense/summons/utility.

[Darth Stabber]

I think you can bind a soulmeld to a chakra you can shape a soulmeld on top of it. Could prove very nice.

Nope, one meld per chakra unless you have the feat double chakra, though it does get a bit a confusing when you realize that some melds can sit on a couple different chakra. You can rebind your chakra on the fly a few times per day as an incarnate.

[Rubik]

wing buffet/wing buffetMmm. Hotwings buffet...

[Talionis]

There are some good tricks to fill essentia too. There is a feat that says that you can fill a soulbind with essentia for one round by using your Psionic Focus. I forget the name of the feat. Sorry away from Books.

My reading was it even works on the feats that otherwise lock your essentia in them. This is useful for some of the save boosting soulmelds and feats.

Psionic Focus has many ways to get back fairly easily.

[Big Fau]

Meldshapers also work really well with Legacy Items (strange, isn't it?). That allows you to gear your soulmelds to other spots (and in the case of the Incarnate, get Medium BAB and archery support) and can boost your essentia if you can get your DM to allow Soul Boon as an SLA for the item.

[NevinPL]

Yes, yes. Incarnum is the best. It can bring back the dead, and other way around, make sky (more) blue, grass green-er, and everything in between.
But it doesn't for me. So since I got the answer, I consider my matter closed. But feel free to use this thread, to answer other people questions, discus things, if you wish.

[BowStreetRunner]

Is there's no "Search", because I can't seem to find it, neither general one, nor search thread ?

Use Google to search this site by typing "site:www.giantitp.com" and then your search terms.

[undead hero]

Yes, yes. Incarnum is the best. It can bring back the dead, and other way around, make sky (more) blue, grass green-er, and everything in between.
But it doesn't for me. So since I got the answer, I consider my matter closed. But feel free to use this thread, to answer other people questions, discus things, if you wish.

:smallconfused:

[Rubik]

Yes, yes. Incarnum is the best. It can bring back the dead, and other way around, make sky (more) blue, grass green-er, and everything in between.
But it doesn't for me. So since I got the answer, I consider my matter closed. But feel free to use this thread, to answer other people questions, discus things, if you wish.The tone of that comment was uncalled for, especially since the rest of us are trying to help you.

[NevinPL]

Use Google to search this site by typing "site:www.giantitp.com" and then your search terms.

I know Keld Denar explained that. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15529489&postcount=2) After that I looked through "Board/Site Issues", and clicked on stuff, so now I know that all search options (ego\own posts\threads, the "Today's Posts" from "Quick Links" thingy, etc.) aren't working.


The tone of that comment was uncalled for, especially since the rest of us are trying to help you.
And you did, and I thanked you all here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15533454&postcount=6

You quoted it, so I know you saw it. So I don't understand ? I got my answer. I said that I got it. Thanked for it, but some of you still want to make me believe, that you know better what I wanted from Incarnum.
If my little sarcasm was uncalled, then that attitude is definitely a no-no too.

[Rubik]

And you did, and I thanked you all here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15533454&postcount=6

You quoted it, so I know you saw it. So I don't understand ? I got my answer. I said that I got it. Thanked for it, but some of you still want to make me believe, that you know better what I wanted from Incarnum.
If my little sarcasm was uncalled, then that attitude is definitely a no-no too.It wasn't just sarcasm. It was snide sarcasm, which made the ensuing "thanks" seem snide and sarcastic as well. It seemed like you were metaphorically spitting in our faces with the attitude, and while I know tone is difficult to pin down over text, yours came through pretty clear.

[AuraTwilight]

You quoted it, so I know you saw it. So I don't understand ? I got my answer. I said that I got it. Thanked for it, but some of you still want to make me believe, that you know better what I wanted from Incarnum.
If my little sarcasm was uncalled, then that attitude is definitely a no-no too.

Uh...no one is trying to say they know what you want from Incarnum better than you, or something. Shock and awe, threads continue with conversations long after the original point was made! It stopped being about you several posts ago. Stop being a jerk to people.

[NevinPL]

...which made the ensuing "thanks"...
And now you're "altering reality" - the "sarcasm" was ensuing, not the other way around.
Don't believe me ? Check the post numbers yourself:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15533454&postcount=6

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15535779&postcount=29


Uh...no one is trying to say they know what you want from Incarnum better than you, or something.
How about: some of you still want to make me believe, that Incarnum is better, than I know\think it is ?


Shock and awe, threads continue with conversations long after the original point was made!
After reading Rules, and those reminders that "this forum is not as others, it's stricter", yes it is.


Stop being a jerk to people.
...

[Rubik]

And now you're "altering reality" - the "sarcasm" was ensuing, not the other way around.
Don't believe me ? Check the post numbers yourself:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15533454&postcount=6

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15535779&postcount=29I was referring to the "thanks" in the second post, which ensued after the snide sarcasm. My point still stands rather well.

[NevinPL]

I was referring to the "thanks" in the second post, which ensued after the snide sarcasm. My point still stands rather well.
Second post isn't mine, and my second post is that one with 6 on the end, and there's no "thanks" in later posts, only my mentioning it from earlier post (#6), so I really don't know what you're talking about. You sure you are ?

[Rubik]

Second post isn't mine, and my second post is that one with 6 on the end, and there's no "thanks" in later posts, only my mentioning it from earlier post (#6), so I really don't know what you're talking about. You sure you are ?I was referring to the second post you linked.

I think I got mildly confused somehow. I could've sworn there was thanks in the second one. However, it's still snidely sarcastic, which just comes across as you being nasty. Please don't do it again.

[AuraTwilight]

How about: some of you still want to make me believe, that Incarnum is better, than I know\think it is ?

Like who? :l All I see is people talking about the merits and caveats of Incarnum with each other, not necessarily in response to or because of your opinion on the subject.

Indeed, a good portion of the thread after your initial issue was resolved was BowStreetRunner asking a few questions out of inexperience with the subsystem on his own.

There was absolutely no point to your statement here:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=29

Aside from being nasty to people. There was no possible purpose to it that wouldn't of resulted in negativity.


After reading Rules, and those reminders that "this forum is not as others, it's stricter", yes it is.

Context is a thing. :P This forum is very chatty, and as long as threads remain on-topic, they can carry on for quite a few pages after an initial Q&A has been resolved. Don't like it, stop reading the thread. What was the point of getting nasty with people? It doesn't effect you in any way, does it?

[BowStreetRunner]

I know Keld Denar explained that. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15529489&postcount=2)

Sorry, I missed that he had already addressed that question. I think I read his post before the edits, so never went back and looked at it again.

[Chronos]

Quoth Person_Man:

Incarnate is a great way to add +6 to +14 to pretty much any Skill for a fairly small investment.
Well, not "pretty much any". There's no way to use Incarnum to get a useful bonus to Hide or Move Silently. Those are the only really notable omissions, though.

As for the usefulness or power of the Incarnate, they do have the distinction of being one of the few classes which doesn't suck at first level. Start with either a race with bonus essentia or one with a bonus feat that you spend on an incarnum feat (or both, with Azurin), which are pretty much the best race options for an incarnate anyway. Now take the Expanded Soulmeld Capacity feat, which is a pretty good feat in the long run. Now shape Dissolving Spittle, and put two essentia into it. You now have an at-will ranged touch attack that does 3d6 damage, which will one-shot most first level enemies. Oh, plus some other trick of your choosing, from whatever other soulmeld you have.

[Waker]

Well, not "pretty much any". There's no way to use Incarnum to get a useful bonus to Hide or Move Silently. Those are the only really notable omissions, though.
Well that isn't entirely accurate. Many of the Totemists melds increase Hide and Move Silently. Worg Pelt for instance grants an initial +2 and +2 more for each essentia invested. Is the complaint that it is competence bonus?

[Karnith]

Well, not "pretty much any". There's no way to use Incarnum to get a useful bonus to Hide or Move Silently. Those are the only really notable omissions, though.In addition to the aforementioned Worg Pelt, there is also Kruthik Claws, both of which are on the Totemist list but can be obtained by an Incarnate for a feat. Granted, because of chakra bind benefits and chakra overlap issues, Worg Pelt is usually a better choice, but they're there.

[Piggy Knowles]

Well that isn't entirely accurate. Many of the Totemists melds increase Hide and Move Silently. Worg Pelt for instance grants an initial +2 and +2 more for each essentia invested. Is the complaint that it is competence bonus?

I see this complaint a lot. True, competence bonuses are less useful than insight or untyped bonuses, but worg pelt and kruthik claws pretty handily outstrip your main source of competence bonus for hide/move silently until fairly high levels (ie, when you can afford the greater version of Shadow and Silent Moves armor). That's not going to be for some time, and when that finally rolls around, well - just go ahead and shape a different soulmeld.

[Darth Stabber]

In addition to the aforementioned Worg Pelt, there is also Kruthik Claws, both of which are on the Totemist list but can be obtained by an Incarnate for a feat. Granted, because of chakra bind benefits and chakra overlap issues, Worg Pelt is usually a better choice, but they're there.

Actually kruthic claws is slightly better if you are just shaping it as the flat effect is +4 instead of +2 and they scale with invested essentia at the same rate. Plus kruthic claws are pretty decent when totem bound, giving you the option of a bunch of acid damage, worg pelt's bit isn't bad, but the claws are generally better (unless you are already using girallon arms).

[Piggy Knowles]

Actually kruthic claws is slightly better if you are just shaping it as the flat effect is +4 instead of +2 and they scale with invested essentia at the same rate. Plus kruthic claws are pretty decent when totem bound, giving you the option of a bunch of acid damage, worg pelt's bit isn't bad, but the claws are generally better (unless you are already using girallon arms).

For a totemist, sure. An incarnate probably isn't going to want to give up the hands chakra though, especially if they're focusing on skills - no Theft Gloves on a skill build hurts.

[Karnith]

Actually kruthic claws is slightly better if you are just shaping it as the flat effect is +4 instead of +2 and they scale with invested essentia at the same rate. Plus kruthic claws are pretty decent when totem bound, giving you the option of a bunch of acid damage, worg pelt's bit isn't bad, but the claws are generally better (unless you are already using girallon arms).
Sorry, I should have been clearer, I was only thinking in terms of getting one of the two as an Incarnate through Shape Soulmeld. Without being able to Totem Bind it and only being able to consider regular binds, I feel that Worg Pelt's land speed bonus is better than Kruthik Claws offering Resistance to Acid or Weapon Finesse for natural weapons, and even better doesn't take up the hands or shoulder slot. Kruthik Claws wins just on efficiency of boosting Hide/Move Silently, but I like Worg Pelt more on an Incarnate.

EDIT: Aaaand swordsage'd.

[Darth Stabber]

For a totemist, sure. An incarnate probably isn't going to want to give up the hands chakra though, especially if they're focusing on skills - no Theft Gloves on a skill build hurts.


Sorry, I should have been clearer, I was only thinking in terms of getting one of the two as an Incarnate through Shape Soulmeld. Without being able to Totem Bind it and only being able to consider regular binds, I feel that Worg Pelt's land speed bonus is better than Kruthik Claws offering Resistance to Acid or Weapon Finesse for natural weapons, and even better doesn't take up the hands or shoulder slot. Kruthik Claws wins just on efficiency of boosting Hide/Move Silently, but I like Worg Pelt more on an Incarnate.

EDIT: Aaaand swordsage'd.

Ah, I have not played incarnate, and as a gm I have them twice, once on a GMPC (I give the party a choice from a stable of allies when a player is missing), and one necrocarnate villian. Totemist I have played the crap out of, and use frequently as a gm (I frequently make characters, tweek some things, and and describe it as a monster, and totemist is invaluable for that method of monster brewing). It's actually kinda hard to say I am huge fan of incarnum when the only class in the book I like is totemist.