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Sylthia
2013-06-30, 05:58 PM
I've found that at higher levels, using a full-round attack, especially with dual-wielding, can make the game grind to a halt, as the player rolls off 8 attacks and does "...28 hit?, um uh does 31 hit? etc" I've thought of a possible fix that would reduce the amount of attacks a player gets during a full-round attack.

It would be the same until the third iterative attack at BAB+11. Instead of a third attack at a -10 penalty, the player would have his first attack benefit as though the first strike has the Vital Strike feat applied to it. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/vital-strike-combat---final (However, I'd have these extra dice be able to be multiplied on a critical hit.)

So instead of a greatsword being 2d6+1.5 Str mod, it would be 4d6+1.5 Str mod.

At BAB+16, when the player would get a fourth iterative attack, the vital strike bonus would apply to the second iterative attack as well.

It should in the long run benefit the player, since the last two attacks are the least accurate and miss most of the time anyway, unless the enemy is really easy to hit.

Tovec
2013-06-30, 07:32 PM
For me, I'm definitely not sold.

Vital strike itself is woefully useless as you get higher in attacks. Also this requires a lot more calculation and math on the front end, before a roll. Helpful only if you are doing a full attack against one target, ignoring the benefit of 4 attacks at different creatures, if you want.

There are other solutions. The one I saw fairly recently that seems to be a solution to your problem here is if your iterative attacks don't become -10,-15 but instead remain the same -5 that monsters get, the same as the first second attack.

Then it would be 20/15/15/15 instead of 20/15/10/5. It gives the fighter much more power to play around with too.

Also, if you think 8 attacks (well 7) with TWF is too many, you can then apply the same as the monster feat "multiattack" and it becomes... 20/18/18/18 or something.

Sylthia
2013-06-30, 08:30 PM
For me, I'm definitely not sold.

Vital strike itself is woefully useless as you get higher in attacks. Also this requires a lot more calculation and math on the front end, before a roll. Helpful only if you are doing a full attack against one target, ignoring the benefit of 4 attacks at different creatures, if you want.

There are other solutions. The one I saw fairly recently that seems to be a solution to your problem here is if your iterative attacks don't become -10,-15 but instead remain the same -5 that monsters get, the same as the first second attack.

Then it would be 20/15/15/15 instead of 20/15/10/5. It gives the fighter much more power to play around with too.

Also, if you think 8 attacks (well 7) with TWF is too many, you can then apply the same as the monster feat "multiattack" and it becomes... 20/18/18/18 or something.

The 8 attacks was a reference to having haste up as well. It's more looking for a way to reduce the amount of attacks than purely buffing them.

Alabenson
2013-06-30, 08:45 PM
Frankly, as a player I'd see this as a huge nerf to melee. The problem is that most melee damage either comes from adding and multiplying Str or sneak attack damage, neither of which would be multiplied under this system.

Elricaltovilla
2013-06-30, 08:51 PM
I think a simpler solution is what my dm does: Just tell us the AC of the target. That way we can roll out the dice nice and quick, even if we have 8 attacks.

Sylthia
2013-06-30, 08:54 PM
I suppose I could just double everything on the first attack, then on the second with the would be fourth attack.

Rainbownaga
2013-06-30, 11:31 PM
The 8 attacks was a reference to having haste up as well. It's more looking for a way to reduce the amount of attacks than purely buffing them.

If you have the penalty to iteratives stop at -5 you could roll them all at once. It is a buff, but mainly to classes that are weaker anyway.

That is assuming you have enough d20s.

Tovec
2013-07-01, 07:31 PM
The 8 attacks was a reference to having haste up as well. It's more looking for a way to reduce the amount of attacks than purely buffing them.
1. I assumed the 8th was from a speed weapon (or haste) but TWF only gives you 7 which is what I said./
2. I gave a solution for the amount of attacks. I provided 20/18/18/18 as the TWF alternative to my suggestion of 20/15/15/15.
The reason for that of course being..

If you have the penalty to iteratives stop at -5 you could roll them all at once. It is a buff, but mainly to classes that are weaker anyway.

That is assuming you have enough d20s.
(Bold for reference, not directed at you Rainbownaga)

The classes that would be affected by this are the ones who NEED the help. Keeping martial classes in line with casters is hard enough. Reducing their damage potential because you dislike the amount of d20s they have to roll seems like a flaw to me.

The solution I presented has fewer attacks, simpler numbers, higher damage potential, and the similar stats (when compared natural attacks) as before as to keep that in line too.

Your solution, again talking to Rezkeshdadesh, has a few problems that I noticed as well as ones others have noted. Ultimately if it works for you then do it, but be aware of what you are doing. It doesn't affect me either way. Good luck and have fun.