[PF] Survive being launched from a catapult

[Jaraak]

Ok. Here is the deal. We're in a spelljammer-esque campaign and want to send our marines (party tanks) a distance of approximately 500-1000ft across the expanse of space to land relatively safely aboard the enemy vessel.

As far as resources go we have a Inquisitor and Magus for spell casters, the rest are all non-magic users.

I want to be able to launch the Fighter, Barbarian and Magus across to other ships. We tried a scroll of dimension door, which was fine, but too expensive for regular use.

So my questions are:

1. What sort of damage can we expect from getting fired from a catapult onto a 5ft square aboard another ship?
2. Some options for mitigating this damage as much as possible?
3. Avoiding conditions like prone through acrobatics

We were thinking of attaching a harness/rope to the lucky space travelers in case we missed our target and they ended up getting shot into space they can pull themselves in.

[Gwaednerth]

Well, as far as damage...
you're firing the boarders about 750'. If we pretend that they go along a semicircle (because I have a half-irrational absolute loathing of parabolas) they are going to fall about 375' as that would be the radius of our semicircle. Falling deals 1d6/10'. thus only taking into account vertical distance, you'd each take 37d6 of damage. (average 129.5 damage) So you probably want some Epic level mattresses/trampolines/being caught by superman if you don't want to turn your legs into jam. (plus, strawberry jam is clearly superior to leg jam) As far as avoiding some of this hurt, can the Magus use featherfall? I'm not very familiar with them.
-T.

[Jaraak]

The simplest answers are always the best, thank you very much Gwae. Can't believe I didn't thin of it myself!

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-feather-falling

[Doorhandle]

Yes featherfall would work, but you wouldn't have the same impact.

Also, I think pathfinder fall damage caps out at about 20d6 normally.

Not sure what else you could do to migrate the damage. Get halfway there and then fly to a stop? really, really, good acrobatics roll?

I know there's a feta that lets you instantly get up, and Monkey style will let you fight with no penalty while prone, but I don't think that's your interest.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Well, as far as damage...
you're firing the boarders about 750'. If we pretend that they go along a semicircle (because I have a half-irrational absolute loathing of parabolas) they are going to fall about 375' as that would be the radius of our semicircle. Falling deals 1d6/10'. thus only taking into account vertical distance, you'd each take 37d6 of damage. (average 129.5 damage) So you probably want some Epic level mattresses/trampolines/being caught by superman if you don't want to turn your legs into jam. (plus, strawberry jam is clearly superior to leg jam) As far as avoiding some of this hurt, can the Magus use featherfall? I'm not very familiar with them.
-T.

Does spelljammer remove the 20d6 cap from falling damage?

If not, then that (average 70) will be what you're looking at for a maximum.

Also, is spelljammer space anything like regular space? If it is then there's not going to be any arc; just a straight line; and you really couldn't call that "falling," since speed would either be constant or constantly dropping depending on whether there's breathable air between the vessels.

Granted; all I know about spelljammer is that it's basically a naval campaign moved into the "sea of space," and that there's a race of giant hamster people.

[malonkey1]

Also, is spelljammer space anything like regular space? If it is then there's not going to be any arc; just a straight line; and you really couldn't call that "falling," since speed would either be constant or constantly dropping depending on whether there's breathable air between the vessels.

Well, that's not totally true. The arc will probably be imperceptible except with egregiously large ships, but gravitational attraction will pull them toward it. Again, not really important, and mathematically negligible at those distances for reasonably-sized ships. I wonder, though, would you be allowed to use jet-like fire spells or breath weapons as impromptu course-correction/deceleration boosters? Then you could have them carry wands of Burning Hands or something...

[Jaraak]

I'm not hugely versed on spelljammer myself but from my understanding their is an atmospheric bubble surrounding the ship about double the distance (in radius I assume) of the ships hull. In this case our ship is about 80ft long. So thats a 160ft radius air bubble. Gravity too? I think. Not sure.

Anyway. Shooting a catapult from one air bubble/gravity field across wild space into another bubble of air/gravity would be somewhat tricky. And for the sake of complexity we've just houseruled it as the same as a normal catapult working in a planet with normal gravity/air etc. Cause why bother getting carried away?

I do like the idea of course correction. I think it might be better to use gas/air spells rather than fire spells.

[Drelua]

These are probably too expensive to be practical for this at 1,000 gold a pair, but Boots of the Cat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots-of-the-cat) minimize falling damage and let you always land on your feet, so the most damage you'd have to worry about is 20.

[Grollub]

I'm not hugely versed on spelljammer myself but from my understanding their is an atmospheric bubble surrounding the ship about double the distance (in radius I assume) of the ships hull. In this case our ship is about 80ft long. So thats a 160ft radius air bubble. Gravity too? I think. Not sure.

Anyway. Shooting a catapult from one air bubble/gravity field across wild space into another bubble of air/gravity would be somewhat tricky. And for the sake of complexity we've just houseruled it as the same as a normal catapult working in a planet with normal gravity/air etc. Cause why bother getting carried away?

I do like the idea of course correction. I think it might be better to use gas/air spells rather than fire spells.


Okay , seeing that you have Trajectory worked out... you could simply launch them so they land within the gravity plane of the other ship so they wouldn't impact anything. They would just have to have a way to "board" the ship from the floating gravity plane.

IE: you launch them... they "land" in the gravity plane.. worst case, they "float" under the ship to the other side, or bottom of the ship.

[Jaraak]

@Grollub

The only issue with this is that leaving a zero gravity environment into one with an atmosphere and gravity is that you're going to keep your current vector of trajectory. So if you come in at 30mph you're still traveling at 30mph before the gravity kicks in. This is why we're just treating it like a normal ballista, to save on complexity. Otherwise you'd have to work our the angle and speed (vector) on entering the bubble then adjust it for other forces (such as gravity and air friction) acting on the object. Either way you're coming in fast and hard.

I think the boots or featherfall will do the trick nicely. I may have to convince the DM that the featherfall can be activated 60ft prior to impact instead of say 180ft (from a 90ft ships air bubble) thus only shaking off 60ft of the 90ft fall (to the center of the bubble); since the featherfall ring is CL1.

Might be fun blasting the tanks onto the deck and the archers into the rigging/crows nest. pew pew pew!

[Lord Vukodlak]

To figure out how this would work you need to play angry birds space. In any event you probably shouldn't take more damage being flung out of a catapult then you would being hit by the regular rock flung out of the catapult.

[Rabidmuskrat]

I hope you are going to dress your marines in space suits before launching them. If air only extends 180ft from both ships, that leaves about a 400ft gap of hard vacuum in between that is rather hazardous to squishy meatsacks.

Endure elements should protect against the cold, but I have no idea how to handle the vacuum - bottle of air won't cut it, neither would holding your breath.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I hope you are going to dress your marines in space suits before launching them. If air only extends 180ft from both ships, that leaves about a 400ft gap of hard vacuum in between that is rather hazardous to squishy meatsacks.

Endure elements should protect against the cold, but I have no idea how to handle the vacuum - bottle of air won't cut it, neither would holding your breath.

You'd only be exposed to the vacuum for a second or two not long enough to do any real harm. What kills you in a vacuum is the lack of air, the second thing that can kill you is getting the "bends", and the third thing is radiation. Surprisingly vacuum is a good insulator heat loss would be the least of your worries. D20 modern actually has rules for surviving in a vacuum and you don't start suffering the effects until the third round.(which begin with the bends)

[Rabidmuskrat]

If you breath out. Otherwise air pressure will explode you like a balloon, nevermind the bends.

[Barstro]

I was hoping to throw in some wind resistance arguments, but then saw that this takes place in a vacuum.

How about a stronger catapult and an elastic tether? Provided the "ammo" could cut the line at the right moment, there wouldn't be much damage. Of course, if they for get to cut the cord then they will fly back into the first ship for much more than 20d6.

[Angelmaker]

I don't know, but this plan is pure suicide.

Until you have a surefire way of really hitting the enemy vessel with your "ammunition" ( maybe a casting of truestrike? ) what happens when you fire short? You'd fall through the enemy air bubble thanks to gravitation and then just dangle at the end of a very long rope in vacuum.

If you overshot featherfall won't help ypu either since it does not stop your forward trajectory. Now you just dangle on the end of a rope which can be cut by the enemy vessel's crew. And space it is once more.

Forget the rope, it does not help. I'd say truestrike is mandatory for the catapult crew and then you'd need featherfall/cats boots/something similiar to break your fall.

Edit: still then, you'd have to deal with the impact of vacuum, so a neckalce of adaption maybe, because even a single combat round in space would warrant a dc30 constitution save or be sickened dazed and whatever for a good few minutes. But that is just my gut feeling. I have no idea what RAW say about space.

Also, reloading a catapult takes quite some time. Until you can make sure you really are able to survive until reinforcements are cow-apulted in, this begs the question"why not do it the old fashioned way and just board it". I'd say, a ship which cannot deal with one enemy per six rounds ( 5 rounds reload, 1 round flight time ) is not a threat to begin with.

[Slipperychicken]

Feather Fall should work if you get shot all the way to the target and then cast it right before you hit the ground.

[Jaraak]

Thanks for all the input. You guys have given me some great ideas and lots to think about.

We did consider the idea of boarding the ship in the traditional fashion, through either boarding pikes or ramming it. But we want to keep their adventurers/marines away from our crewmen.

Does anyone know where to find the d20 rules on surviving in space?
Will a necklace of adaption really help?

I figured if we miss the ship we can have the crew simply wind them in and fire them off again. This way we can jump on the enemy flag ship, keep the crew pre-occupied with us marines whilst our ship positions to fire cannons onto the enemy crew from above.

[Komatik]

Anyone in their right mind knows that the only suitable live ammunition for catapults are minotaur commanders drunk on cider, with the target preferably being a dragon. Ammunition should be crazy enough to survive being shot at a goddamn dragon and to be responsible for there not being a single minotaur left in the First Dragonarmy.

[Jaraak]

Planetary Adaption http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/planetary-adaptation

Should take care of surviving in space, not sure if it provides breathable oxygen so a necklace of adaption might help too. Otherwise... well... hold your breath for the 6 seconds it takes to get over there.

Unfortunately a level 4 cleric spell. Perhaps the Magus can take it as a special spell?

Feather Fall should help mitigate the damage.

Now to find a catapult big enough to launch a fighter in full plate and a tower shield. May have to opt for a trebuchet or a bigger boat.

[Barstro]

If you overshot featherfall won't help ypu either since it does not stop your forward trajectory.

The enemy's gate is down.

But I think Featherfall fails for other reasons.

[ArqArturo]

Depends. I think orcs and half-orcs do extra damage on objects when thrown into catapults (http://youtu.be/oO7ZZEqj_YA).