-2 sword

[Zsaber0]

How much gold would it cost to improve the cursed -2 sword into a still cursed +1 sword?

This is mostly a joke attempt to never be disarmed because the owrding says that if you've been in possession of this weapon for more then a week, when ever you draw a weapon, it will always be this sword. Even if you are captured and have it taken from you and are put in prison, you can still draw this blade.

[Flickerdart]

Subtract the price of a longsword (the default base weapon, 15gp) from the -2 cursed sword (1500gp). The result is the cost of the magic property itself, which is 1485gp. The total cost of a +1 cursed longsword would therefore be 19,800gp.

[Absol197]

Subtract the price of a longsword (the default base weapon, 15gp) from the -2 cursed sword (1500gp). The result is the cost of the magic property itself, which is 1485gp. The total cost of a +1 cursed longsword would therefore be 19,800gp.

Almost, but the longsword is technically masterwork, so the price is 300 gp higher, meaning the price of the "enchantment" would be 1,185 gp.


~Phoenix~

[Flickerdart]

Almost, but the longsword is technically masterwork, so the price is 300 gp higher, meaning the price of the "enchantment" would be 1,185 gp.


~Phoenix~
No it isn't. Cursed Sword does not follow the normal rules for magic weapons. If it did, then the whole thing would have to be a +1 sword first, which would make the total cost of the weapon before the curse is applied 2315, and thus make the enchantment have a negative cost. Alternatively, the sword would actually have only -1 to attack rolls as opposed to -2.

[Nettlekid]

I think the question is, how much would it cost to upgrade from a -2 sword to a -1 sword to a +0 sword to a +1 sword? Since upgrading from a +1 sword to a +4 sword would cost (final-initial)=4-1=+3, would it cost (final-initial)=1-(-2)=+3? Or would it cost the price to get it to a +1 sword, ~2000, even though you're going through three points of upgrade? If that latter example is the case, then could you apply three +1 equivalent enhancements (like flaming and holy combined, for example) for that same ~2000 price, to have a -2 Holy Flaming Sword? Who knows~?

[Fable Wright]

Why make it a +1 sword? Just make it adamantine and use Greater Magic Weapon on it. Much more useful than a regular +X sword for breaking out.

[137beth]

Why make it a +1 sword? Just make it adamantine and use Greater Magic Weapon on it. Much more useful than a regular +X sword for breaking out.

Because if you make it a +1 sword then you can add other enhancements on it.

[the_david]

18000 gp, the same as a +3 bonus.

If you had the sword for more than 1 week though, you can't get rid of it. I assume that includes giving it to someone else to enchant it. If whoever enchants it has it in his keeping for more than a week, he can't return it to you.

[wharin]

Here's my unofficial take. Assumptions:

Penalties subtract an amount from the item cost equal to half the equivalent bonus.
Item costs (e.g. the 15gp for a longsword) are ignored for cursed items.


-2 Cursed Sword = 1500gp
-2 weapon = half cost of +2 weapon, but expressed as penalty = -4000gp
Cursed 'ability' therefore equals 5500gp.

+1 sword = 2315gp
+1 cursed sword = 2315gp plus 5500gp = 7815gp.

[Nettlekid]

18000 gp, the same as a +3 bonus.


But that's assuming that there's a static cost between the numbers, regardless of what the numbers are, and that's not the case. It costs 18000 gp to raise a +0 sword to a +3 sword. But it costs 30000 gp to raise a +1 sword to a +4 sword, that same +3 difference. And it costs 42000 to raise a +2 sword to a +5 sword.

So...extrapolating that, in that...um...the differences between the cost of a static +3 enhancement increase are +12000 each time...then I'd say that to raise a -1 sword to a +2 sword, logically and mathematically, costs 6000 gold. And so to raise it from a -2 sword to a +1 sword, it should cost -6000 gold. I KNOW THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. CURSES DON'T. THE CURSE IS ACTUALLY THE CURSE OF EVIL MATH.

[Zsaber0]

But that's assuming that there's a static cost between the numbers, regardless of what the numbers are, and that's not the case. It costs 18000 gp to raise a +0 sword to a +3 sword. But it costs 30000 gp to raise a +1 sword to a +4 sword, that same +3 difference. And it costs 42000 to raise a +2 sword to a +5 sword.

So...extrapolating that, in that...um...the differences between the cost of a static +3 enhancement increase are +12000 each time...then I'd say that to raise a -1 sword to a +2 sword, logically and mathematically, costs 6000 gold. And so to raise it from a -2 sword to a +1 sword, it should cost -6000 gold. I KNOW THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. CURSES DON'T. THE CURSE IS ACTUALLY THE CURSE OF EVIL MATH.

I Like your explanation the most, it gives me 6000 extra gold to play with.

[Sith_Happens]

Enhancement Cost = 2000 * [(New Bonus)2 – (Old Bonus)2]

2000 * [(1)2 – (-2)2] = 2000 * (1 – 4) = 2000 * (-3) = -6000 gp

...Which I think is what Nettlekid said, but I'm not sure.

[TuggyNE]

Enhancement Cost = 2000 * [(New Bonus)2 – (Old Bonus)2]

2000 * [(1)2 – (-2)2] = 2000 * (1 – 4) = 2000 * (-3) = -6000 gp

...Which I think is what Nettlekid said, but I'm not sure.

Given that it comes out to the same result with different algorithms, I'm pretty sure that's the correct answer. I'm not even sure it's wrong in the sense of being more absurd than any other possibility.

[Pilo]

Does a -2 sword bypass DR/magic?

[AuraTwilight]

Yea, it's a magic item.

[TuggyNE]

Does a -2 sword bypass DR/magic?

Nope!
Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters.

Seemingly, WotC paid attention to that one, or maybe it was just luck.

[ericgrau]

The -2 isn't actually an enhancement penalty so I presume you could have a 3500 gp +1 -2 sword with a net -1 to hit and damage, which also bypassed DR/magic.

[Thurbane]

+1 Longsword plus an ounce of Sovereign Glue is 4,715gp :smalltongue:

[JusticeZero]

One of the big things with the "Cursed Sword" though is the strangeness of its stickiness. Specifically, you can manipulate it like a normal sword, sheathing it or putting it places or whatever, but you CANNOT get rid of it. This is not a directive but a statement of possibility. As such, you can be stripped naked to be hauled to the dungeon, but as soon as you try to do anything, poof, the sword is there whether you wanted it or not, doing wacky things like trading places with knives in the sheath or hiding itself or following or whatever to do it. This is intended to be an effect to prevent you from using other weapons, but it has some positive values.

[Zsaber0]

So using crafting rules, how long would you say it takes to enchant this? 6 days for -6000 gold, or would it suddenly spring into existence the moment you decide to enchant it since it was thus made 6 days ago.

[pendell]

At the risk of sounding silly, since this is well out of my field of expertise, might be easier and less expensive to curse a +1 sword than to take a cursed -2 and bring it up to +1?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Nettlekid]

So using crafting rules, how long would you say it takes to enchant this? 6 days for -6000 gold, or would it suddenly spring into existence the moment you decide to enchant it since it was thus made 6 days ago.

It'll pop up in the same place as a 1x1x1 ft block of sand shaped by a Sand Shaper.


At the risk of sounding silly, since this is well out of my field of expertise, might be easier and less expensive to curse a +1 sword than to take a cursed -2 and bring it up to +1?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Not at all. If the calculations done by several people on this thread are right, it costs -6000 gold to bring it from -2 to +1. Which in fact pays you back for the sword itself. There's probably some manic, absolutely insane Artificer sitting on a pile of gold, crafting cursed swords, then fixing them and watching money fall out.

[elonin]

How do you go about creating cursed items in the first place? In some video games it is possible to make items to kill shop keepers by selling them stuff. Would that work with cursed items?

[eggynack]

At the risk of sounding silly, since this is well out of my field of expertise, might be easier and less expensive to curse a +1 sword than to take a cursed -2 and bring it up to +1?

Respectfully,

Brian P.
Presumably, assuming that it's more expensive to go from -2 to +1, which may not be true, the goal is a magic sword that you'll always have access to. You could go anywhere, and do anything, and you'd always have a magic weapon at your service. That's a pretty cool ability to have, especially if you're not relying on soulknife levels to get it.

[Nettlekid]

How do you go about creating cursed items in the first place? In some video games it is possible to make items to kill shop keepers by selling them stuff. Would that work with cursed items?

Cursed items have their creation prereqs like any other item. Most involve Create Wondrous Item or Craft Magic Arms and Armor, as well as being able to cast Bestow Curse. As far as killing shopkeepers though, if you're amoral enough, you can kill them like you'd kill anyone. A Disintegrate spell, Sneak Attack when they're fetching something from the shelf, or a brutish Greatsword to the neck will do the trick. If you're feeling tricky then sure, you can hand them a cursed item, but if killing them is the goal then there are easier ways to do it. Hopefully the DM is operating with a bit more tact, assuming that it takes several days or even weeks for connections to be made and specific magic items to reach you following payment, and there are steps in place with powers higher than yours prepared to take you down if you operate against them. But try if you dare.

[Zsaber0]

Presumably, assuming that it's more expensive to go from -2 to +1, which may not be true, the goal is a magic sword that you'll always have access to. You could go anywhere, and do anything, and you'd always have a magic weapon at your service. That's a pretty cool ability to have, especially if you're not relying on soulknife levels to get it.

It also kinda has the returning property for thrown weapons.

Also, according to the rules it says that if you try to draw another weapon you will draw the cursed weapon. What if you have 2 of them? Do you draw both? Does one spill out and land on the ground? What if you have 1000 of them? and are flying above an enemy. Will 999 swords just fall onto the enemy.

[eggynack]

It also kinda has the returning property for thrown weapons.
It might even be better than the returning property. The returning property causes the weapon to come back before your next turn, while this thing can presumably be drawn and thrown repeatedly on the same turn. What's stopping you from throwing at an iterative based rate, when you can just draw the thrown weapon, and re-throw it?

[Nettlekid]

Or it might be a lot worse, if your DM rules that "The sword can be
gotten rid of only by means of limited wish, wish, or miracle." means that you can't even get rid of it temporarily by throwing it.

[Thurbane]

Depending on how you read the "return to hand" wording, could make for a great Iaijutsu weapon, if you can get your foe flat footed. Just keep dropping as a free action and then attacking - if the DM counts this as "drawing" the weapon each time.

Similar thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205319) I made a while back has some good ideas.

[eggynack]

Or it might be a lot worse, if your DM rules that "The sword can be
gotten rid of only by means of limited wish, wish, or miracle." means that you can't even get rid of it temporarily by throwing it.
Well, it's definitely one of the two. It's either significantly better than returning, or nothing like returning at all. I don't think there's much room for a worse version of returning.

[ericgrau]

Cursed items have their creation prereqs like any other item. Most involve Create Wondrous Item or Craft Magic Arms and Armor, as well as being able to cast Bestow Curse. As far as killing shopkeepers though, if you're amoral enough, you can kill them like you'd kill anyone. A Disintegrate spell, Sneak Attack when they're fetching something from the shelf, or a brutish Greatsword to the neck will do the trick. If you're feeling tricky then sure, you can hand them a cursed item, but if killing them is the goal then there are easier ways to do it. Hopefully the DM is operating with a bit more tact, assuming that it takes several days or even weeks for connections to be made and specific magic items to reach you following payment, and there are steps in place with powers higher than yours prepared to take you down if you operate against them. But try if you dare.
Presumably the shopkeepers are very well defended in proportion to their wealth, or one of the many villains in the D&D world would have taken it from them already.

But since an identify spell on a cursed item is highly likely to yield false information, you can sell cursed items to the shop staff in preparation for an attack. They might not use a lot of the gear they buy from you, but many items still work. A bag of devouring appears to be a bag of holding, great for transporting shop inventory from the back room to the front... and eventually eating the poor man that put his hand into it. Boots of dancing that seem to be striding and springing could likewise be handy for moving about, and they act that way and may even be removed until the curse triggers. Once you engage the shop in combat he gets tagged with irresistible dance. If you get some info about the shop guards you might find other items more tailored to their liking so that the items are equipped rather than sold.

[shaikujin]

IIRC, the rules for creating cursed items are in the DMG.

Gist of it is that one of the things that can go wrong is having an enhancement do the exact opposite thing.

There's also a feat (or class) somewhere (one of the OA expansion I think) that reduces crafting costs but all items comes with a curse.

So basically, it's a +2 sword that went wrong and became a -2 sword.

Pricing is probably due to the "forced to use this weapon" having a negative cost.

Now for munkin-ness, I'm thinking there are ways to get around this if you do not have easy access to Greater Magic Weapon.

1 - Use psychic weapon property. That makes the Enhancement bonus +5 if you have 130+ PP.

2 - Supreme munkiness - Deliberately make a cursed sword, then curse it so that the -2 does the opposite thing and becomes a +2.

3- Ludicrous mode : If your DM uses a different calculation method and considers the -2 to be the one that gives a discount, use step 2, but make it a -5 (or even -10) sword. Get a +5 weapon, while reducing costs at the same time...

(Yeah, I've toyed with this idea before).