Archer Class?

[GimpLemons]

Whats the best way to make a efficient ranged character in DnD?

I'd like to primarily use bows, and I was thinking maybe an Artificer?

The general consensus seems to be that ranged martial classes just suck, but is there any way to be a bow user and be good?

[Darth Stabber]

Ranged combat tends to be better accomplished via magic. There are multiple problems with archery, and one of the biggest ones is that without some source of extra damage it can't even remotely keep up with melee. Sneak attack is frequently looked to, but it's hard to get it every turn since you can't rely on flanking. Scout gives you the easier to activate skirmish, but the problem is that it becomes very difficult to get a full attack off, thus leaving you with the same low damage problem. You can work it out to get a massive number of attacks, but they deal so little damage that any DR you can't bypass will ruin your day completely. If you can solve the scout's movement problem it becomes doable (travel devotion or what ever that training dummy is combined with a strong UMD), and there are a couple of weird ways to do it with rogue.

If you are intent on doing it, you would do well to have a DFI bard in the part.

[Devronq]

Well its not that it sucks its just harder to make it good. Theres archer builds that do thousands of damage a round enough to basically one shot anything not immune.

Anyways a good start is these two weapon abilities
arrow splitting (+3)- all arrows split into another arrow so doubles your attacks per round.
transmutating (+1?)- cant remember is this is +1 or +2 but if you attack someone your weapon changes to be able to beat thier damage reduction

theres also a force one that makes your arrows force arrows so no type of damage reduction works

[magwaaf]

feats and gear, multi shot, many shot, etc...

then you build the bow cannon you want to maximize you damage.

then you cast gravity bow and start winning.

[Fyermind]

I like soulbows with levels in Kensai personally. They are far from high OP, but they get some nice things if you have enough feats.

[GimpLemons]

I was playing earlier and the Bane ability Artificers get is pretty good early on, is artificer archer viable?

[Tokiko Mima]

I'd suggest being a Warlock, and re-flavoring the eldritch blast to being arrows shot from a magically limitless quiver. Ruathar (Races of the Wild) PrC is easy to grab, and lets you easily qualify for more martial/ranger type classes, if that is your wish. :smallsmile:

[ddude987]

I suggest going cloistered cleric archer. Divine metamagic persisting divine might for full bab. You get knowledge devotion for early, and later, free pluses to hit and damage every combat and you get two domains on top. Also you get full cleric casting!

[Darth Stabber]

Artificer can do archery, the hallmark of tier 1 classes is doing anything it wants to do better than a lower tiered class designed for such a thing.

[Psyren]

It's a little easier in Pathfinder thanks to feats like Clustered Shots and Deadly Aim to address the DR/damage problem and generally archer-friendly feats like Parting Shot.

[Curmudgeon]

Here's a fairly useful build:

Start with a race which has Ranger as their favored class (example: Wood Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#woodElf)); choose a Lawful alignment. At 1st level choose the Arcane Hunter ACF (Complete Mage, page 32): you'll have "Arcanists" as your favored Enemy, and that covers a lot more of the tougher enemies than your standard favored enemy choices. Then add the following:

3 levels Scout. After that, take Swift Hunter (Complete Scoundrel) to stack your Ranger+Scout levels for both skirmish damage and favored enemy bonuses.
2 levels Monk, swapping evasion at level 2 for Invisible Fist (Exemplars of Evil, page 21): become invisible for 1 round, every 3 rounds.

Continue with Ranger levels, with archery as your combat style. When you can afford it, train with a Sparring Dummy of the Master (Arms and Equipment Guide, page 137). This will let a Monk take a 10' step when they would normally be allowed a 5' step. Moving 10' enables skirmish damage. (You can sell the Sparring Dummy afterward; all you need is the 4 weeks of training, and you're set.)

When you can afford it, get your bow enhanced with splitting (Champions of Ruin) to double all the arrows you fire.

[Slipperychicken]

The general consensus seems to be that ranged martial classes just suck, but is there any way to be a bow user and be good?

Pathfinder (best described as 3.5 plus a few houserules) introduced some feats and items to fix archery. The system was built to be backwards compatible with 3.5, so it's easily adapted to a 3.5 game.

The main thing was the feat Deadly Aim (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat). It's basically ranged power attack (an effect sorely lacking in 3.5, which is one reason the Energy Bow is so desirable), and it gives archers the damage they need to stay competitive with melee.

They also have the Seeking (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/seeking) enchantment and Improved Precise Shot (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-precise-shot-combat---final), which generally make life much easier on archers as concealment doesn't gimp them as much.

[Eslin]

Hello Luke.

[Alienist]

Acherficery:

If you have a (Cannith?) dragonmark you can summon a homunculus with a level 1 infusion. One of the options is the arbalester. The arbalester has a decent chance to hit (compared to many other low level options), and lasts for an hour.

That duration makes it the best level 1 summoning spell by a large margin.

You could easily have a couple of these running around with you through the majority of most dungeons, so long as you're not worried about traps or searching every room for treasure.

As an artificer there are other things you can do to pump them up, things like haste, or bane. If the dungeon has a variety of monsters then setting them on fire is probably going to be better than bane.

Level 1 scrolls are cheap, so there's really no upper limit to how many of these things you can bring to the battlefield (!!!). Action economy? No ... no, we don't do that around here ...

A level 4 artificer should be able to come up with about a dozen different ways to SOLO That Damned Crab, including things like fly and haste (each of those on it's own (well, plus arbalesters) is basically enough to guarantee a win), but if you're doing it right you can actually go toe to claw with the crab and beat it - you can actually heal faster than it can damage you, and there are a variety of spells you can get hold of that damage things when they grapple/melee you.

[Piggy Knowles]

Artificers make great archers, honestly. They get all the buffing goodies of clerics and wizards, and then some.

Curmudgeon's suggestion of going Swift Hunter certainly isn't mad, although my own preference on a swift hunter build is a cloistered cleric dip for Travel Devotion rather than a monk dip for Sparring Dummy. Still, both work.

As was mentioned, the magical classes tend to do better as archers, both because spells can do far more than a martial chassis on an archer build, and because spells can give you something useful to do when archery isn't viable (and oftentimes it won't be).

In addition to the big 3 (artificer/wizard/cleric), all of which make fantastic archers, some other mid-range classes that make good archers include...


Bard, with decent spell access, excellent knowledge skills and access to the damage engine that is Inspire Courage/DFI.
Psychic Warrior, with the bonus feats to support the fairly feat-intensive fighting style and the buffs and utility to stay competitive. Your best source of bonus damage will probably be expansion, giving yourself high damage on each successful shot; Zen Archery mitigates the low Dex you'll have as a result.
Warblade, possibly with a dip into other ToB classes, as a surprising number of counters, boosts, etc. work with ranged attacks. Not necessarily mind-blowing, but you can put together a fun and flexible archer this way.
Factotum, because a factotum can do anything. They get a lot of neat attack boosting options, access to some spells and fantastic skills, and bonus actions that can be a huge boon to any build that relies off of volley style attacks.


I've got several archer builds in my sig, although most of them are variations on using DMM Persist alongside Chameleon, to get access to all the best archery buffs. Still, that's not ALL that's there, so feel free to peruse. I don't currently have an artificer build up, but that's mostly because a decent archer artificer is going to have more to do with proper item management and infusion choice than a good build skeleton.

[Talionis]

Piggy (above me has a great archer thread in his signature).

But I will also say that dipping into Magic of Incarnum can grant some nice bonuses for not too much expense.

You can build total Incarnate Archer and do respectably, but you'll be better as a Cleric or Artificer.

Another thought is dipping into Chameleon prestige class from Races of Destiny. The Chameleon has access to all spells level 6 or lower. This grants you all the Assassin Spell list and all of the Ranger's Spell List. Both have some of the best archery buffs. You'll also get them faster than either would because of the way that Chameleon casting progresses.

[SowZ]

I like going Targeteer, Crossbow sniper and Dead-Eye Shot for 2.5x Dex to damage. Then a Distracting shot Ranger 4 for reliable Sneak Attack and Rapid Shot. Then get two splitting Hand Crossbows with Lucky bolts of various kinds, (some bane, some of various materials, a few force for really tricky damage reduction.)

A level of Halfling Sub. Rogue for +2d6 Sneak Attack with bows and the craven feat slaps on some extra damage. The Penetrating shot ACF is nice, too.

You'll need Hand Crossbow Focus, (not weapon focus,) and glove of the master strategist along with the TWF feat chain. By level 20, you get 18 attacks per round with each attack probably doing a minimum of 60 damage each and two attack rolls per attack.

[Darth Stabber]

Warblade, possibly with a dip into other ToB classes, as a surprising number of counters, boosts, etc. work with ranged attacks. Not necessarily mind-blowing, but you can put together a fun and flexible archer this way.


Actually that reminds me of something. If you are willing to use thrown weapons over archery Bloodstorm Blade is fun option. Start off as a warblade and then pick up the ability to throw your greatsword and have it return to your hand and several SCARY things on top of that.

[hobbitkniver]

It really depends how optimized your party is. The first time I played DnD, I was a ranger in a party with a wizard and other casters and I outshined them all because I got help from people on this forum and they weren't optimizing. Personally, I've never liked the idea of doing a weird workaround to make an archer out of a class like cloistered cleric.

[Dimers]

Psychic Warrior, with the bonus feats to support the fairly feat-intensive fighting style and the buffs and utility to stay competitive. Your best source of bonus damage will probably be expansion, giving yourself high damage on each successful shot; Zen Archery mitigates the low Dex you'll have as a result.

Ardents are good too, in different ways. Still Wis-based for Zen Archery, a potentially wider array of powers to choose from, way more power points to apply. They don't get the psychic warrior's bonus feats, though.

[Piggy Knowles]

Ardents are good too, in different ways. Still Wis-based for Zen Archery, a potentially wider array of powers to choose from, way more power points to apply. They don't get the psychic warrior's bonus feats, though.

True. The only downside is that I don't think any mantles have any of the neat archery powers from CPsi, although honestly, EK for Extend Range and you're good to go. Well, that and weapon proficiencies, but that's easily circumvented.

[GimpLemons]

Can you stack bonus feats?
for example can I take Fighter2/Feat Rogue 2/psychic warrior2 and have 6 bonus fighter feats?

[Piggy Knowles]

Can you stack bonus feats?
for example can I take Fighter2/Feat Rogue 2/psychic warrior2 and have 6 bonus fighter feats?

Yes, you can. Throw on Simple Wizard 1/Cloistered Cleric 1 and you're up to 10 in 8 levels.

[Curmudgeon]

Curmudgeon's suggestion of going Swift Hunter certainly isn't mad, although my own preference on a swift hunter build is a cloistered cleric dip for Travel Devotion rather than a monk dip for Sparring Dummy. Still, both work.
Yes, both work to enable skirmish damage. I like the Monk 10' step approach because that counts as "no action", whereas Travel Devotion uses up your swift action every round. There are a number of swift action Ranger spells which are just too delicious for an archer to resist: Arrow Storm, Exacting Shot, and others in Spell Compendium; Bloodfreeze Arrow, Doublestrike Arrow and other juicy options in Champions of Ruin; and let's not forget the awesome Hunter’s Eye in Player's Handbook II.

[Zombulian]

I suggest going cloistered cleric archer. Divine metamagic persisting divine might for full bab. You get knowledge devotion for early, and later, free pluses to hit and damage every combat and you get two domains on top. Also you get full cleric casting!

I second this. Zen Archery as well as a persisted Cloud of Knives work fairly well.

[ddude987]

I second this. Zen Archery as well as a persisted Cloud of Knives work fairly well.

Only problem I've seen with the build is early on you have very low BaB until you can persist 4th level spells, which is level 7. Knowledge Devotion helps with this a little bit.

[Piggy Knowles]

Yes, both work to enable skirmish damage. I like the Monk 10' step approach because that counts as "no action", whereas Travel Devotion uses up your swift action every round. There are a number of swift action Ranger spells which are just too delicious for an archer to resist: Arrow Storm, Exacting Shot, and others in Spell Compendium; Bloodfreeze Arrow, Doublestrike Arrow and other juicy options in Champions of Ruin; and let's not forget the awesome Hunter’s Eye in Player's Handbook II.

True, although Sparring Dummy and a monk dip requires a specific 30,000gp item and time to train with it.