Optimizing a ranged rogue build (dagger throwing)?

[Gargravarr]

Trying to build a Rogue throwing daggers...

Fist off, unsure which race to choose:

either
Strongheart Halfling
Halfling Pros: Bonus feat, +1 attack roll with ranged, RoTW Halfling levels (+1d6 SA/Sniping @Lvl10
Halfling Cons: Movement speed 20ft, No darkvision/low-light vision

or
Whisper Gnome
Gnome Pros: +8 on Hide checks +2 CON, Movement speed 30ft, Darkvision 60ft Low-light vision, SLAs
Gnome Cons: -2 CHA (for maxing UMD this is less ideal), no feat

I'm trying to build a synergy with focus on stealth, UMD and sneak attacks, sneak attack need not be maxed but should be viable...

Build idea for good synergy

RotW Halfling Rogue10/Warlock2/Incarnate1/Swordsage1/Warblade1/Bloodstorm Blade4/Master Thrower1

Pros: Good concealment for sneak attacks, versatility, throwing synergies
Cons: Pathetic 7d6 SA @L20, mediocre BAB 13

Dip Reasons:
Rogue SubLevels 1+10 for extra SA and sniping as free action
Warlock Darkness/Devil's Eyes invocations
Incarnate UMD +6 soulmeld
Swordsage for Assassin's Stance
Bloodstorm Blade for immediate returning weapons as free actions
Master Thrower for throwing trick

Build alternative for better sneak attacks


RotW Halfling Rogue11/Ninja1/Swordsage1/Assassin1/Fighter SA Variant1/Invisible Blade1/Shadow Dancer2/Nightsong Enforcer1/Dread Commando1

Pros: 15d6 SA @L20
Cons: less versatile, mediocre BAB 13, feat intensive and useless feat reqs

Dip Reasons:
Rogue see above
ShadowDancer replace Warlock concealment dips for HiPS, darkvision
Rest for straight 1st level sneak attack, no other main reason



Can you help me optimize this?

Rules: only 3.5 core and supplements allowed, no FR/3.0 but web enhancements are probably ok (need to check with DM), also no level adjustments/templates

Also throwing daggers seems a bit weak because of the range penalties and/or extra feat requirements? Should I go archer instead?

[Humble Master]

Looking at your first build I kind of feel like your trying to do too much at once. Try removing the Warlock and Incarnate levels as they seem to not do much for throwing stuff. Also you can get Assasin's Stance without a level in Swordsage. Just get the Martial Stance feat at 12th level.

As for the second build you are throwing away a lot of stuff just for more Sneak Attack dice. Sneak Attack is a decent class feature but it shouldn't control your build unless you have someway of making a ton of attacks in one round to get your Sneak Attack dice multiple times.

[Gargravarr]

Looking at your first build I kind of feel like your trying to do too much at once.

Well trust me, I've got the same feeling myself :D


Try removing the Warlock and Incarnate levels as they seem to not do much for throwing stuff.

True but the reasoning behind the dips you mentioned is as follows:

Warlock is so I can sneak attack all day at lower levels since darkness paired with Ring of darkhidden and Darkstalker provides some decent (total) concealment.

Incarnate to get UMD high quick and (ab)use wands at early levels.
This way I can get UMD to +19 at Level 6.


Also you can get Assasin's Stance without a level in Swordsage. Just get the Martial Stance feat at 12th level.

Swordsage so I have access to the stance plus the useful Shadow Hand maneuvers.


As for the second build you are throwing away a lot of stuff just for more Sneak Attack dice. Sneak Attack is a decent class feature but it shouldn't control your build unless you have someway of making a ton of attacks in one round to get your Sneak Attack dice multiple times.

True that but I felt that 7d6 @Level20 seemed fairly weak so I looked at a way to maximize it but I don't know how I should optimize the build without throwing away too many SA dice at the same time.

[Karnith]

Incarnate to get UMD high quick and (ab)use wands at early levels.
This way I can get UMD to +19 at Level 6.
Depending on your alignment, Incarnates also get combat soulmelds that increase your effectiveness with ranged attacks; all Incarnates get access to Bluesteel Bracers (+1 insight bonus to weapon damage rolls per point of essentia invested) and Sighting Gloves (+1 insight bonus to ranged weapon damage, +1 per point of essentia invested), and Chaos Incarnates get to improved their ranged to-hit bonus with Incarnate Avatar (+1 insight bonus to ranged attack rolls per point of essentia invested).

[juicycaboose]

Warlock is so I can sneak attack all day at lower levels since darkness paired with Ring of darkhidden and Darkstalker provides some decent (total) concealment.

Darkness gives concealment not total concealment

[Gargravarr]

Darkness gives concealment not total concealment

True but "Blend into Shadows" makes it possible through swift hiding ;)