PDA

View Full Version : Final Boss - Help?



Luna_Mayflower
2013-07-01, 04:12 PM
So this Thursday, my group that I DM will be finishing the story arc and that Final Boss, as it were. The boss itself is called Venazer the Meta-Serpent, and is basically a meta-god (the party is epic-level after over a year of playing every week). He's a god of law and order, and is summoned by the queen of the lesser order gods.

Anyway, that's not too important. What is, is how the battle will go. I was wondering if you guys had any advice for a good couple of final battles. Maybe its something you've ran or encountered, and loved. Maybe just something you've come up with.

Don't think I'm asking because I can't think of anything, I'm just interested what you guys think. Many brains are better than one, right?

Thanks,
Luna

Glimbur
2013-07-01, 05:31 PM
Final bosses should cheat. Not to the point that frustrates players and makes them think they cannot win, but they should be different from other encounters.

One way they can do this is by acting more quickly than people normally can. This is in the general role-playing games section of the forum, so I won't assume a system, but in at least one system the fact that the party outnumbers one boss is very significant in terms of how many actions everyone gets. One solution is to throw out a lot of action-denial, but this is boring for players. You can instead give the boss two or three sets of actions. Serpents have a head and a tail, and normally the head is the dangerous part. Meta-god serpents could have dangerous tails, and a second set of actions for it.

Law and order? Cheating? That says to me dictating the results of die rolls. Not every roll, of course, but the power to say 'don't roll that' should stick in the players' minds.

Law is also associated with imprisonment, but that is hard to do in a fun way. If they have to escape from the magic jail they were sent to, you really should send the whole party there so you don't split everyone's attention. Or you can imprison one person but make it much simpler for them to escape. The Maze (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/maze.htm) spell from Dungeons and Dragons is one example, but it is still pretty boring for the prisoner. Maybe you give them a (logic) puzzle to solve IRL and when it is done they can come back. Depends on the player if that will be ok or not.

Minions are also ok, but it is more work to make them unique and memorable too. If you're lucky there are some monsters that are thematic and of the right power level which have just never been used. Otherwise you might have to hack something together; or just forget minions.

Bulhakov
2013-07-01, 05:33 PM
Who's in your party?

Where will the fight take place?

Can the enemy be reasoned/negotiated with?

awa
2013-07-01, 07:42 PM
In my experience players would rather hit a foe 5 times before it dies then to miss 4 times and then one shot the monster. My point is defenses that are yes no like displacement and immediate action movement are less fun then defense like hp.

Personally i believe it is because if you hit a monster with high hp you have succeeded if you miss a monster because it used celerity or displacement the monster succeeded because it made you miss even if the total number of attacks made in the encounter is the same succeeding is more fun then failing.

Traab
2013-07-01, 08:04 PM
If this is going to take place in the meta gods place of power, I can see a god of law and order having a very specific set of unbreakable rules for the fight that will be followed. Think of it as if the players find themselves literally being pieces on a chess board. They can only move such and so, can only attack thusly, things like that. The rules also affect the god as well, so its not all one sided.

This leaves an interesting confrontation that could go a number of ways. From having to figure out the rules and beat him at his own game, to tricking him into breaking the rules somehow. As an example, in the Goblins webcomic, one of the party members agrees to trade his soul for the macguffin. Turns out it was a trick and they got a piece of garbage and the demon mocks them. He claims the party members soul, only to discover too late that this party member has TWO souls in him, and by claiming both, even by accident, he violated the rules and is himself severely punished. (basically dragged screaming down to hell) So your party could try to go this route too, make him violate his own rules, which leads to punishment from a higher power, which, considering he is a demi god, should be quite possible to have happen.

Luna_Mayflower
2013-07-02, 05:45 AM
Those all sound like great ideas. Thanks for the help and keep 'em coming. Oh and, yes, the system is D&D (3.5).


Who's in your party?

Where will the fight take place?

Can the enemy be reasoned/negotiated with?

We have a Vampire Psion Nomad, a Vampire Rouge and a Werewolf Warlock (I know, quite the colourful lot). There's also an Elf Wizard, but the character's player sometimes can't make it to the sessions, so I may be playing the character as an NPC.

The battle wil be taking place in two locations, as the battle will be in two halves. Firstly, they'll be fighting a kind of 'shell'. Basically a large golem-like creature that acts as a protective shell while the serpent finishes forming.

After they beat that boss, the sepent finish forming and transport itself to the outer realms (a plane that most of the adventure has taken place in). It plans to purify both the outer realms and the material plane by crashing what could be thought of as the outer realms's sun into both planes. This is where the part will be fighting the serpent the next time, but of course. he's no longer in his own realm. I plan for a time limit of a few in-game minutes (so a certain number of rounds) before the 'sun' is crashed into the realm below, and bad things happen.

As for reasoning, the golem isn't sentient, so nope. However, the serpent, while extremely zealous, may be able to be reasoned with somehow.


If this is going to take place in the meta gods place of power, I can see a god of law and order having a very specific set of unbreakable rules for the fight that will be followed. Think of it as if the players find themselves literally being pieces on a chess board. They can only move such and so, can only attack thusly, things like that. The rules also affect the god as well, so its not all one sided.

This leaves an interesting confrontation that could go a number of ways. From having to figure out the rules and beat him at his own game, to tricking him into breaking the rules somehow. As an example, in the Goblins webcomic, one of the party members agrees to trade his soul for the macguffin. Turns out it was a trick and they got a piece of garbage and the demon mocks them. He claims the party members soul, only to discover too late that this party member has TWO souls in him, and by claiming both, even by accident, he violated the rules and is himself severely punished. (basically dragged screaming down to hell) So your party could try to go this route too, make him violate his own rules, which leads to punishment from a higher power, which, considering he is a demi god, should be quite possible to have happen.

I like the plan, but you've got to remember he's a meta-god, as in a god of gods. This means there's little above him. However, maybe his power is depends on him 'sticking to the rules', as it were?

Traab
2013-07-02, 07:58 AM
Those all sound like great ideas. Thanks for the help and keep 'em coming. Oh and, yes, the system is D&D (3.5).



We have a Vampire Psion Nomad, a Vampire Rouge and a Werewolf Warlock (I know, quite the colourful lot). There's also an Elf Wizard, but the character's player sometimes can't make it to the sessions, so I may be playing the character as an NPC.

The battle wil be taking place in two locations, as the battle will be in two halves. Firstly, they'll be fighting a kind of 'shell'. Basically a large golem-like creature that acts as a protective shell while the serpent finishes forming.

After they beat that boss, the sepent finish forming and transport itself to the outer realms (a plane that most of the adventure has taken place in). It plans to purify both the outer realms and the material plane by crashing what could be thought of as the outer realms's sun into both planes. This is where the part will be fighting the serpent the next time, but of course. he's no longer in his own realm. I plan for a time limit of a few in-game minutes (so a certain number of rounds) before the 'sun' is crashed into the realm below, and bad things happen.

As for reasoning, the golem isn't sentient, so nope. However, the serpent, while extremely zealous, may be able to be reasoned with somehow.



I like the plan, but you've got to remember he's a meta-god, as in a god of gods. This means there's little above him. However, maybe his power is depends on him 'sticking to the rules', as it were?

Ah, my mistake, I thought meta god was like a demi god, almost a full god but not exactly, or something like that. But even so, it could be argued that a god that acts against his own domain can no longer be empowered by it. In other words, if a god of law and order acts in an unlawful and chaotic fashion by violating the rules, he can no longer be considered a god. Possibly be depowered, possibly just be weakened somehow. Treat it like a paladin falling. Maybe not to that full extent, but enough so he becomes a far easier target to defeat.