OMG Planescape & Spelljammer Is Coming Back!!

[CyberThread]

Okay, take a deep breath....


read this bit


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20130701


Planescape and spelljammer are coming back for d&d next.

other few tidbits,


That means the return of the Great Wheel, the Blood War, and other classic elements of the D&D cosmos.

[Raineh Daze]

What, no love for Spelljammer in the thread title? B-B-But penguins and giant space hamsters! D:

... you know, I said I'd buy 5E if they put Spelljammer in. I didn't for a moment think they'd actually do it, though. Guess we've just got to wait and see.

[CyberThread]

fixed, now tell your friends how aweesome I am

[Scowling Dragon]

Oh deer oogly moogley. SpellJammer is my FAVOURITE setting....I would buy 5e if they had spelljammer.

Those bastards! :smallfurious:

[Raineh Daze]

But I already knew. @_@


Oh deer oogly moogley. SpellJammer is my FAVOURITE setting....I would buy 5e if they had spelljammer.

Those bastards! :smallfurious:

Bastards? For the return of Giant Space Hamsters?

Okay, the system isn't brilliant, and they really need to fix skills, but it's not exactly unplayable. Spelljammer is reason enough, I think. XD

[Scowling Dragon]

It means I actualy have to BUY next. :smallyuk:

But I hope the design team will understand that the DRAW of Spelljammer is it being silly (And Sometimes scary), but mainly creative.

If they Bastardize it (MAAAN, Space Hamsters are uncool. Lets make Gnomes a Generic Steampunk Race) I will be double pissed.

[137beth]

Yes! I hated the 4e cosmology:smallamused:

[CRtwenty]

Yes! I hated the 4e cosmology:smallamused:

They're going back to the Great Wheel? Wonder how they're gonna explain that happening. Hopefuly it's not "some Overdeity shows up and fixes everything" that'd be lame as hell.

[CyberThread]

:D welcome to forgotten realms, where everything with power, has to still look overeach shoulder, as always something with more power shows up.

[Tvtyrant]

Yes! Spelljammer is back! WOOOO! Time to roll up some encounters with Beholder ships.

[The Glyphstone]

Yes! Spelljammer is back! WOOOO! Time to roll up some encounters with Beholder ships.

Weren't Beholder ships just ship-sized Beholders with normal Beholders riding on the outside?

[Tvtyrant]

Weren't Beholder ships just ship-sized Beholders with normal Beholders riding on the outside?

Yesssss. But if I recall they had this one ship were a bunch of Beholders shot the smaller eyes of the ship with their own rays to fire a massive death-star style disintegrate ray.

[Doorhandle]

I agree that the skills for next could use some work but I love what they're doing with fighters, and the return of planejammer can only be good.

I'd need to read through the complete version of the rules before I would commit to it though.

[Darth Stabber]

>Real Spelljammer
>No THAC0

Choose only one.

[Silvanoshei]

Omg omg.... this could mean...... PLANESCAPE 2 !?!?!?!?! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[CRtwenty]

Omg omg.... this could mean...... PLANESCAPE 2 !?!?!?!?! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

After reading the article it seems the Great Wheel is back, but the Inner Planes are still all sorts of messed up. So pretty much. Wonder if Asmodeus is going to remain a God or not. Seems like it'd be difficult to continue the Blood War if he doesn't lose his divinity.

[Ashtagon]

They're going back to the Great Wheel? Wonder how they're gonna explain that happening. Hopefuly it's not "some Overdeity shows up and fixes everything" that'd be lame as hell.

Don't be silly. Overdeities only control a single world-sized campaign setting. This needs an over-over-deity.

[Yora]

There never was an explaination of the outer planes disappearing in Forgotten Realms, so I assume they just bring them back without ever mentioning that they were gone.

[BWR]

My initial reaction was WOOHOO!!!!
Then: waitaminute...

The article, it didn't actually say that Planescape was coming back, just that they would use the basic set-up of the Outer Planes from PS (which, strictly speaking, started in Dragon and more or less was the default for Greyhawk). So we could (most likely) end up with something like the 3E Manual of the Planes rather than Planescape 2.0.

Spelljammer seems promising, however, based on the negligible amount of info given.

[Eldan]

Judgement reserved. Planescape has very little to do with the Great Wheel. That's the place it takes place in. It could take place almost everywhere else. Planescape isn't about geography.

[Mithril Leaf]

:D welcome to forgotten realms, where everything with power, has to still look overeach shoulder, as always something with more power shows up.

I believe you mean;

Welcome to Forgotten Realms, the setting where power is made up and the levels don't matter.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Now they just need to bring back Project Javelin :smalltongue:

[Balor01]

Dnd Next
http://www.nightbiscuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/donotwant_picard.jpg

[Raineh Daze]

Dnd Next
http://www.nightbiscuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/donotwant_picard.jpg

I don't think anyone much does. But they appear to have stumbled across something desirable, whether that was intentional or not. :smalltongue:

[CRtwenty]

I'm still not entirely sure what D&D Next actually is except an apology for 4th Ed.

[Arcanist]

Ideally, our approach allows Dragonlance, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, the world of the Nentir Vale, Greyhawk, Mystara, Dark Sun, and your own campaign setting to work with the basic assumptions we make about the planes.

Just feels like they are crossing to many streams and might flood their own levees. I am quite eager to see how this is all going to work out, especially with the elements of a lot of these settings conflicting... I always thought this sort of thing might work if you focused it mostly on Spelljammer and made it so that the setting of Planescape worked with each Crystal sphere independently of each other. (The inner and outer planes are connected to the numerous prime material planes as required along with Sigil.)

I'm curious how the various campaign settings are going to interact, especially with the whole Hollow, Gray, Elemental plane of Silt and junk native to Dark Sun :smallconfused:

[JellyPooga]

Coo...I like the idea of the Tri-part Border/Deep/Primal Elemental Planes and other Planes/settings fitting in to this style of arrangement. It satisfies a certain part of me that was at odds with the descriptions as-given in previous editions.

[Deathkeeper]

I know absolutely nothing about 5e and little about 4e other than it looked not-to-my-liking, but I heard the lore got really screwy. Hopefully SJ will still be fun.

[dysprosium]

Now they just need to bring back Project Javelin :smalltongue:

YES!

One of the best ideas WotC had and NEVER followed through.

[Raineh Daze]

I'm still not entirely sure what D&D Next actually is except an apology for 4th Ed.

A system where, if they would explain why they're doing things and have someone check their maths and game balance, then they might actually have a competent system.

A good one if they could come up with some interesting ideas and not discard them repeatedly. :smallsigh:

[Clistenes]

I like Pathfinder's Solar System more than any of Spelljammer's Solar Systems. And truth to be told, I like the Spelljammer stuff centered around the Toril/Oerth/Dragonlance Triad more than the rest.

My question is: Will they tell us something new about Nentir Vale's World and Oerth? I have been starving for some brand new Greyhawk's stuff for years...

[Arcanist]

My question is: Will they tell us something new about Nentir Vale's World and Oerth? I have been starving for some brand new Greyhawk's stuff for years...

Wouldn't actually telling us about Nentir Vale, kind of defeat the purpose of Nentir Vale?

[Yora]

Greyhawk had a semi-zombie existance since way back in 2nd Edition. I think Gygax lost the rights to it when he left TSR in 1985 and ever since the owners of the D&D brand have been reluctant to really develop the setting any further. There was From the Ashes in 1992, but from what I've read it was a kind of gritty reboot, that wasn't exactly popular with the old fans. And subsequently wasn't continued.

[137beth]

Greyhawk had a semi-zombie existance since way back in 2nd Edition. I think Gygax lost the rights to it when he left TSR in 1985 and ever since the owners of the D&D brand have been reluctant to really develop the setting any further. There was From the Ashes in 1992, but from what I've read it was a kind of gritty reboot, that wasn't exactly popular with the old fans. And subsequently wasn't continued.

Gygax did attempt to further develop Greyhawk under a different name after leaving TSR, although he died before getting very far:smallfrown:

[Eldan]

YES!

One of the best ideas WotC had and NEVER followed through.

Care to explain what it is?

[Yora]

Some d20 modern adventure.

[CyberThread]

:D, just wanting for info on this sundering -_-

[Clistenes]

Gygax did attempt to further develop Greyhawk under a different name after leaving TSR, although he died before getting very far:smallfrown:

What are you speaking about? Castles & Crusades?


Greyhawk had a semi-zombie existance since way back in 2nd Edition. I think Gygax lost the rights to it when he left TSR in 1985 and ever since the owners of the D&D brand have been reluctant to really develop the setting any further. There was From the Ashes in 1992, but from what I've read it was a kind of gritty reboot, that wasn't exactly popular with the old fans. And subsequently wasn't continued.

I personally think that it's very stupid to let such an iconic setting to wither and die, specially now that they are struggling to recover from the post-fourth edition schism and the new Forgotten Realms thing.

Greyhawk is so loved that the fans have kept it alive for decades; they could use it to reclaim some of their old fanbase.

[Emmerask]

I have supreme confidence in Wizards to **** this up, one could give them a ton of pure gold one month with their current dev team and it would become ten tons of excrement :smallwink:

[erikun]

Wait, Ravenloft is between the Prime and Negative Energy Plane? The domain of dread, basically impossible to find and even harder to leave? And the Shadowfell, the shadowy border plane to the Prime that wizards and creatures casually enter and leave, is now part of Ravenloft?

Good to see that all the old stories and campaigns in Ravenloft will make perfect sense with the new setting. :smalltongue:


In other news, I will agree with what someone else said that Planescape was something different than just a bunch of elemental planes and alignment planes. Good to hear they're working on something for Spelljammer, for the fans of those though.

[ArqArturo]

It means I actualy have to BUY next. :smallyuk:

Well, there are other methods. But, will you be willing to join the dark side?.


Wait, Ravenloft is between the Prime and Negative Energy Plane? The domain of dread, basically impossible to find and even harder to leave? And the Shadowfell, the shadowy border plane to the Prime that wizards and creatures casually enter and leave, is now part of Ravenloft?

Could be worse, Ravenloft could be part of Aryth/Eredane.

[CyberThread]

This is going to be one of the biggest test for fans, will you support your new setting or steal from it and kill the entire thing off once again , while you mope and grope on how wizards ended your favorite thing.


Has anyone seen anything published yet for the sundering was suppose to be out today.

[Arcanist]

Wait, Ravenloft is between the Prime and Negative Energy Plane? The domain of dread, basically impossible to find and even harder to leave? And the Shadowfell, the shadowy border plane to the Prime that wizards and creatures casually enter and leave, is now part of Ravenloft?

They should have left Ravenloft the way it was. The land of mist should stay as deep into the Ethereal as humanly possible... I think it is fairly strange to put the Demiplane of Dread in such an obvious place as "Between the corners of Necromancer Blvd and Shade Place" :smallannoyed:

[TuggyNE]

I'm still not entirely sure what D&D Next actually is except an apology for 4th Ed.

Not a very good one. Kinda like saying, "Sorry you got mad because I called you ugly", or something.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Care to explain what it is?
Project Javelin was a d20 Modern campaign setting intended to ultimately tie the very different genres of d20 Modern (and potentially other d20 system games) together. The central conceit was dimensional travel and that each dimension would have different levels of technology and magic; so you could jump from Urban Arcana to Pulp Heroes to Genetech or whatever. They published an introductory adventure and then abandoned it to work on 4E.

[Raineh Daze]

Project Javelin was a d20 Modern campaign setting intended to ultimately tie the very different genres of d20 Modern (and potentially other d20 system games) together. The central conceit was dimensional travel and that each dimension would have different levels of technology and magic; so you could jump from Urban Arcana to Pulp Heroes to Genetech or whatever. They published an introductory adventure and then abandoned it to work on 4E.

I shudder at the thought of binding D20 modern's settings to mainstream D&D. :smalleek:

[Phelix-Mu]

Project Javelin was a d20 Modern campaign setting intended to ultimately tie the very different genres of d20 Modern (and potentially other d20 system games) together. The central conceit was dimensional travel and that each dimension would have different levels of technology and magic; so you could jump from Urban Arcana to Pulp Heroes to Genetech or whatever. They published an introductory adventure and then abandoned it to work on 4E.

I'm actually playing in a campaign that is very much along these lines. I wonder if my DM ever heard of this. We are currently skipping between the universes of various video games. Pretty damn awesome concept, really. (It's really hard to get between the various multiverses/dimensions. Requires deity-level coolness that the party hasn't mastered yet.:smallfrown:)

And, as usual, WotC looks at pure awesome and thinks "Man, I think if we gut this and stuff it with hackery, we can net us some more $$."

[Kuulvheysoon]

:D, just wanting for info on this sundering -_-


I have supreme confidence in Wizards to **** this up, one could give them a ton of pure gold one month with their current dev team and it would become ten tons of excrement :smallwink:

I still cannot come to terms with the Spellplague... I'm not even sure that I'll stick around for The Sundering. I've only read a few novels of 4e Realms, but that's enough to know that I'm not a fan.


They should have left Ravenloft the way it was. The land of mist should stay as deep into the Ethereal as humanly possible... I think it is fairly strange to put the Demiplane of Dread in such an obvious place as "Between the corners of Necromancer Blvd and Shade Place" :smallannoyed:

Agreed. Ravenloft's inaccessibility is part of it's intrigue, it's charm. Making it "easily" accessible is not only a crime, it's a perversion of everything Ravenloft stands for.

[ArqArturo]

Not a very good one. Kinda like saying, "Sorry you got mad because I called you ugly", or something.

More like 'Sorry I ran over your cat, here's a goldfish'.

[Bogardan_Mage]

I shudder at the thought of binding D20 modern's settings to mainstream D&D. :smalleek:
Pretty sure that ship sailed when Urban Arcana included Estavan and the Planar Trade Consortium.

[Arcanist]

I still cannot come to terms with the Spellplague... I'm not even sure that I'll stick around for The Sundering. I've only read a few novels of 4e Realms, but that's enough to know that I'm not a fan.

Nobody can come to terms with the Spellplague and I doubt, even if WoTC retcons it out, will ever forget that they did that to us. Sure, I worked around the Spellplague and implemented rules into my 3.5 game that allowed for post-spellplague gameplay, but it still feels like a huge slap in the face.


Agreed. Ravenloft's inaccessibility is part of it's intrigue, it's charm. Making it "easily" accessible is not only a crime, it's a perversion of everything Ravenloft stands for.

It isn't just about Ravenloft's inaccessibility, it is it's mystery that makes it so charming and for some reason? It feels so close to how an actual game of D&D would be if real people where tossed into it. Everything is trying to kill you, everything is much more powerful than you, survival is your goal (not victory) and I really like that feeling. I like those kinds of games where no matter how hard I optimize or how intelligently I play, the BBEG is 12 steps ahead of me. Makes victory that much more delicious to obtain :smalltongue:

[TuggyNE]

More like 'Sorry I ran over your cat, here's a goldfish'.

More or less, I guess.

[dysprosium]

Project Javelin was a d20 Modern campaign setting intended to ultimately tie the very different genres of d20 Modern (and potentially other d20 system games) together. The central conceit was dimensional travel and that each dimension would have different levels of technology and magic; so you could jump from Urban Arcana to Pulp Heroes to Genetech or whatever. They published an introductory adventure and then abandoned it to work on 4E.

The main antagonist was an alternate history Germany that won WWII in the future that had pretty much sucked out all of the resources of their planet and discovered the only way to save their world is to drain the resources of other alternate dimensions' worlds. There was an introductory adventure(?) and a players guide. The PCs were agents that went around to thwart their plans.

And of course WotC decided that idea was too cool to run with so "let's destroy everyone's favorite rpg instead!"

[CyberThread]

uhg...why is everyone on the 3.5 forums if you all hate what wizard does....

You are still playing 3.5 *go away pathfinder players, and don't ruin my arguments*

[ArqArturo]

You are still playing 3.5 *go away pathfinder players, and don't ruin my arguments*

*Kicks can, leaves*

[ThermalSlapShot]

uhg...why is everyone on the 3.5 forums if you all hate what wizard does....

You are still playing 3.5 *go away pathfinder players, and don't ruin my arguments*

I've always found this funny.

Also I find those set of houserules (pathfinder) to be a slap in the face of the D&D brand... *sigh*

Anyways, one thing I really hope WoTC actually (in)directly mentions or at least leave hints at is that Pelor is actually the evil bastard from 2e... Whatever his name was then...

[Arcanist]

uhg...why is everyone on the 3.5 forums if you all hate what wizard does....

You are still playing 3.5 *go away pathfinder players, and don't ruin my arguments*

You can still find the flaws with the things you love (Hell, if you find no flaws with something you love, then you should really consider if you actually love it in the first place).


*Kicks can, leaves*

Oh neat, Forum "Kick the can"! *Kicks can back to ArgArturo* :smalltongue:

[AuraTwilight]

uhg...why is everyone on the 3.5 forums if you all hate what wizard does....

You are still playing 3.5 *go away pathfinder players, and don't ruin my arguments*

Ugh, why is everyone on these original Star Wars trilogy forums if you all hate what George Lucas does?

People can have good ideas and then after awhile just start doing nothing but bad ones. Shock, I know.

[Phelix-Mu]

Ugh, why is everyone on these original Star Wars trilogy forums if you all hate what George Lucas does?

People can have good ideas and then after awhile just start doing nothing but bad ones. Shock, I know.

And discussing the highly subjective spaces that constitute the realm of the "good" and the realm of the "bad" is an activity that will endlessly attract new iterations, rehashes, new takes, angles, opinions, contributing elements, and the like. This will all go on irrespective of how any of us actually feel.

I agree that "loving" something does not preclude obsessively thinking about it, dwelling on flaws, questing for perfection, ridiculous preening, cults of personality, and holding logically inconsistent views.

THAT'S WHAT MAKES LOVE SO DAMN COOL.

[Kuulvheysoon]

uhg...why is everyone on the 3.5 forums if you all hate what wizard does....

You are still playing 3.5 *go away pathfinder players, and don't ruin my arguments*

These guys below know where it's at.


You can still find the flaws with the things you love (Hell, if you find no flaws with something you love, then you should really consider if you actually love it in the first place).


Ugh, why is everyone on these original Star Wars trilogy forums if you all hate what George Lucas does?

People can have good ideas and then after awhile just start doing nothing but bad ones. Shock, I know.


And discussing the highly subjective spaces that constitute the realm of the "good" and the realm of the "bad" is an activity that will endlessly attract new iterations, rehashes, new takes, angles, opinions, contributing elements, and the like. This will all go on irrespective of how any of us actually feel.

I agree that "loving" something does not preclude obsessively thinking about it, dwelling on flaws, questing for perfection, ridiculous preening, cults of personality, and holding logically inconsistent views.

THAT'S WHAT MAKES LOVE SO DAMN COOL.

[CyberThread]

*kicks the can back to astral*

[137beth]

*casts Symbol of Death on the can, to be triggered when somebody kicks the can*:smalltongue:

[G.Cube]

Sort of a newbie here, what is Spelljammer? Apologies if it was already explained earlier in the thread, I don't particularly enjoy browsing through pages on a cell phone.

[Grinner]

Sort of a newbie here, what is Spelljammer? Apologies if it was already explained earlier in the thread, I don't particularly enjoy browsing through pages on a cell phone.

It's D&D...IN SPACE!

[Yora]

Basically it's D&D in SPACE!!!

I think basically all the AD&D worlds are part of the same universe and you can travel from one planet to others with magic spaceships. And apparently Githyanki, Illithids, and Beholders are among the major space races.

[Raineh Daze]

Sort of a newbie here, what is Spelljammer? Apologies if it was already explained earlier in the thread, I don't particularly enjoy browsing through pages on a cell phone.

You also have a race of merchant penguins, hippomen, and giant space hamsters.

I think there's stuff about crystal spheres and possibly phlogiston, but it's been aaaaages since I checked in detail.

Spelljammer is awesome.

[DeltaEmil]

Sort of a newbie here, what is Spelljammer? Apologies if it was already explained earlier in the thread, I don't particularly enjoy browsing through pages on a cell phone.
http://www.kraproom.com/pacman/aod/gallery/d/3787-2/spelljammer.jpg
It has space versions of everything. Space orcs are called scro, and are smarter and better than normal orcs. Space elves are smarter and better than elves. Space gypsis are smarter and better than normal gypsies. Space sphinxes are smarter and better than normal sphinxes. Space dragons are smarter and better than normal dragons.

[Yora]

I am actually suprised that this thread exists and that people are feeling exited about it.

This is the first time ever that I've seen anyone mention liking Spelljammer. Of all the official AD&D settings, it's probably the most obscure. (Or tied with Birthright.)

[Deathkeeper]

Don't forget space kobolds who are smarter and better than regular kobolds.
I can't believe I went four months in a SJ campaign without noticing that little bit of lore.

[Grinner]

So in short, they pretty much guaranteed that D&D Next will sell in spite of being a rehash of previous editions.

[Yora]

It is? I was under the impression that nobody really cares for it and almost everybody dislikes it for different reasons.

[Grinner]

It is? I was under the impression that nobody really cares for it and almost everybody dislikes it for different reasons.

I've only read through the playtest files, but it seems strongly reminiscent of 3.X.

[Yora]

But I doubt it comes as close to 3rd Edition as pathfinder does.

Of course it will sell to some degree. 4th Edition did also sell. But currently I am not convinced that it will sell better than 4th did.

[undead hero]

I've only read through the playtest files, but it seems strongly reminiscent of 3.X.

Sadly you are correct. They pulled a paizo, say they are making one thing then go in another direction.

My first d&d campaign started with darksun and ran into spell jammer... Twas an epic combination for a newb.

[Raineh Daze]

I think I remember reading an article that pointed out Spelljammer was a test in what they could get past the editors. :smallbiggrin:

[Grinner]

Sadly you are correct. They pulled a paizo, say they are making one thing then go in another direction.

I think the problem is that they lack vision. They're so wrapped up in trying to please the 4e and 3.PF fans that they've failed to create something worth buying...Something with it's own identity, y'know.

[DeltaEmil]

I think the problem is that they lack vision. They're so wrapped up in trying to please the 4e and 3.PF fans that they've failed to create something worth buying...Something with it's own identity, y'know.Wizards of the Coast: "But if feels like D&D, right? Right? RIGHT? PLEASE SAY IT FEELS LIKE D&D, PLEASE!!!"

[RFLS]

Okay, take a deep breath....


read this bit


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20130701


Planescape and spelljammer are coming back for d&d next.

other few tidbits,


That means the return of the Great Wheel, the Blood War, and other classic elements of the D&D cosmos.

Hey, did you post this over on reddit, too? (http://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/1hh2n2/spelljammer_and_planescape_are_coming_back/)

[TuggyNE]

It is? I was under the impression that nobody really cares for it and almost everybody dislikes it for different reasons.

This is generally true, but it seems that that's because of, not despite, its nature as a mish-mash. See, they mished the wrong things together in the mash, so it comes out to be something like half of the worst bits each of 1e, 2e, 3.x, and 4e. (Loosely speaking.) It's most apparent with 3.x/4e parts; 3.x-lovers complain about the chunks of 4e they can see floating in the soup, while 4e-lovers are disgruntled about going back to the bad old days of 3.x chunks.

[Scowling Dragon]

It realy IS all the worst bits of all tge editions in a single "Game loaf" as I would call it.

Without a EXACT direction (other than make it like DND) its a fantastic mess.