PF sorcerer crossblooded archetype

[Negher]

Hello, I'm reading the crossblooded archetype for sorcerers in Ultimate Magic handbook and I 've doubts in the drowbacks interpretation.
The handbook says that you have one fewer spell known each level, it means that, for example, you have to wait level 5 to have access to Level 2 spells??
As a sorcerer you have access to spell one level later than wizards, in this case the levels became 2.
I think that is a great drowback (considering that is not the only).
Is my interpretation correct or there is an errata of this archetype that let you have at least one spell known every level?
Thank you.

[Krazzman]

Hello, I'm reading the crossblooded archetype for sorcerers in Ultimate Magic handbook and I 've doubts in the drowbacks interpretation.
The handbook says that you have one fewer spell known each level, it means that, for example, you have to wait level 5 to have access to Level 2 spells??
As a sorcerer you have access to spell one level later than wizards, in this case the levels became 2.
I think that is a great drowback (considering that is not the only).
Is my interpretation correct or there is an errata of this archetype that let you have at least one spell known every level?
Thank you.

Nope it is as it is intended. It is afaik mainly an option for dipping.
The hit spell progression really hurts the willsave is just adding insult to injury.

[JellyPooga]

I've always read it that you still get your ability to cast second level spells, you just don't know any second level spells. This doesn't stop you from using those slots with metamagic, for instance. So whilst you can't cast Flaming Sphere at level 4, you could still cast (for example) Extended Mage Armour.

Also, if you have a Racial Favoured Class option like the Humans Sorcerers, or a Feat that allows you to add Spells Known, you could also use them to add Spells Known and cast.

It is a pretty gnarly drawback, but it can be worked around and the benefit of being able to cherry pick Bloodline Powers and Spells is pretty sweet, not to mention that you get two Bloodline Arcanae. The -2 to Will saves can be a pain in the buttocks, but all it's doing is negating the +2 bonus you get to it anyway (and if you're that fussed about it, Iron Will is always available!).

If I'm playing a Sorcerer, I almost always go Crossblooded.

[Negher]

I've always read it that you still get your ability to cast second level spells, you just don't know any second level spells. This doesn't stop you from using those slots with metamagic, for instance. So whilst you can't cast Flaming Sphere at level 4, you could still cast (for example) Extended Mage Armour.

Also, if you have a Racial Favoured Class option like the Humans Sorcerers, or a Feat that allows you to add Spells Known, you could also use them to add Spells Known and cast.

It is a pretty gnarly drawback, but it can be worked around and the benefit of being able to cherry pick Bloodline Powers and Spells is pretty sweet, not to mention that you get two Bloodline Arcanae. The -2 to Will saves can be a pain in the buttocks, but all it's doing is negating the +2 bonus you get to it anyway (and if you're that fussed about it, Iron Will is always available!).

If I'm playing a Sorcerer, I almost always go Crossblooded.

Ok, I haven't considered the use of spell slot for spell with metamagic modifier.
Now I'm playing a summoner so the crossblooded is only a curiosity, but I joked creating an efreet sorcerer crossblooded with dragon/efreet bloodlines and I think it will be my next character if the summoner die (at 15 level you can cast enpowered selective fireballs at will!!!)

[JellyPooga]

The "Arcane (Sage)" bloodline is pretty good for Crossblooding with any Race that boosts Int (Elf comes to mind...). The Bloodline Arcana speaks for itself, but it's the Bloodline Powers that are particularly useful for Crossbloods; Metamagic Adept and New Arcana definitely help make up for the neccesity of using Metamagic and the loss of Spells Known.

A particular favourite of mine, recently, has been an Elemental (Air) crossed with Stormborn. The Bonus Spell lists synch up nicely to ditch the rubbish and leave you with lots of lightning-blast goodness!

For Metamagic to "fill the gap" on your dead Spells Known levels:
4th level: Toppling Magic Missile - AKA "Mass Trip"
6th level: Extended Glitterdust or Rope Trick
8th level: Toppling or Reach Force Punch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/force-punch) or Extended Haste

By level 10, you probably want to be looking at jumping the gun and getting extra spells known rather than ad-hoc-ing it using metamagic. Those higher level spells are just that much better!

[CockroachTeaParty]

Words of Power might also be worth consideration as a cross blood, as you can combine multiple lower level effect words in higher level spell slots, effectively granting you 'new spells known.' Words of Power is particularly useful for blisters and summoners.

[Deathkeeper]

Cross blood with Primal element/Orc/dragon etc can be very good for blasters. Add Half-Orc FCB and you've got a pretty hefty damage boost for early levels. Words of power can also be very useful.

[Eldonauran]

Words of Power might also be worth consideration as a cross blood, as you can combine multiple lower level effect words in higher level spell slots, effectively granting you 'new spells known.' Words of Power is particularly useful for blisters and summoners.

Yes. I have done this with my Crossblooded sorcerer. Take Experimental Wordcaster and get all the target words, boost and one effect word. At level 3, you can take Burning Flash (level 1 fire spell effect word that can be boosted to a 2nd level).

I highly recommend never taking Wordcasting as your main method of spellcasting. Wordcasting is best suited for simple effect, like damage.

Also, hedgehog familiar gives a +2 to will saves. That will almost completely eliminate the penalty for being crossblooded. Take Improved Familiar later when the -2 doesnt hurt so much.

[Zubrowka74]

Please do tell me more about this "drowback" concept. Is it using a drow as a mount ? Can I get as a Paladin mount ??

[grarrrg]

I like combining Draconic bloodline with something else "smashy", like Orc, and going into Dragon Disciple.
As written, Dragon Disciple stacks for ALL of your Bloodlines.
You can ditch a LOT of the duplicate-ness that Dragon Disciple would normally give you, AND you do _NOT_ have to learn ALL THREE FREAKING "Form of Dragon" spells as your bonuses.

[Eldonauran]

I like combining Draconic bloodline with something else "smashy", like Orc, and going into Dragon Disciple.
As written, Dragon Disciple stacks for ALL of your Bloodlines.

Interesting. Let's look at that:

A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline. ...
Since Dragon Disciple was written prior to the Crossblooded archetype, they apparently felt there was no need to make the 'bloodline' plural. Sorcerers were expected to have one, and only one, bloodline.

So, my guess it was intended (RAI) to only stack with the Draconic Bloodline. Does it allow for creative optimizing the way it was written? Yes. Yes, it does.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I shall now pour over books to see what kind of melee monster I can bring to life with this new information. :smallamused:

EDIT: Hmm, look at this...


At 3rd level, a dragon disciple gains the breath weapon bloodline power, even if his level does not yet grant that power. Once his level is high enough to grant this ability through the bloodline, the dragon disciple gains an additional use of his breath weapon each day. The type and shape of the breath weapon depends on the type of dragon selected by the dragon disciple, as detailed under the Draconic sorcerer bloodline description.
You don't even have to TAKE the breathe weapon power! You get it from DD levels and get an additional use the moment you COULD take the power normally.



At 9th level, a dragon disciple gains the wings bloodline power, even if his level does not yet grant that power. Once his level is high enough to grant this ability through the bloodline, the dragon disciple's speed increases to 90 feet.
AND THE SAME WITH WINGS!

:smallsigh: What a monster....

[grarrrg]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I shall now pour over books to see what kind of melee monster I can bring to life with this new information. :smallamused:

Been there, done that :smallwink:
Link 3 is the most recent.
Link 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229425)
Link 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231385)
Link 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246107)

"Caster" Link 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245501)

[Negher]

Please do tell me more about this "drowback" concept. Is it using a drow as a mount ? Can I get as a Paladin mount ??

gosh!!! Things that happens when you sleep during English lessons!!!!!

But the idea of using a drow as a mount may be interesting:smallbiggrin: