D&D 3.5 level 1 ninja

[sideswipe]

i'm building a lvl 1 ninja for a sneaky campaign.

all printed 3.5 books allowed and some 3rd's but no dragon magazine.

i just want to know if there are any races that are 0lvl aj and are great as ninja's and any particular feats or strategies that work well as i have never played this class before


thanks
SS

[Raineh Daze]

Which book is the ninja from? There's two different classes with the name.

[DeltaEmil]

Most likely the one in Complete Adventurer, since it's 3.5, and it's a base class with 20 levels.

Ninja spy in Oriental Adventures is a prestige class.

[Vaz]

Assuming CAdv, Rokugan is 3rd party and 3rd edition, and is quite hard to get a hold of comparstively.

At low levels, its Ki Pool and AC boost trigger off Wisdom. A Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold does well (but then again, it can do well at most things).

It has a requisite to get its attacks against Flat Footed foes for precision damage, so Dex helps. However, there is no Weapon Finesse until 3rd level, so some Strength at least is required.

You might want to find yourself taking Apprentice feat for UMD as a Class Skill, but if you don't some Cross class ranks in it benefit greatly from Charisma.

You are a skill monkey, so keep your Skill Points.

You should be looking for stats around

12 Str, Int
14 Con, Dex, Cha (or 8, if UMD is a class skill, other people face better than you)
16 Wis

Human does well to give your skill list Able Learner, while Changeling is fairly awesome even for just a Warshaper boost (allowing Str and Con to be slightly dumped).

Ven Dragonwrought Kobold for Dex, and Mental Boosts

Lesser planetouched of all kinds have LA0, by RAW, and Shyft's have +Dex and +Wis, in addition to Ethereal Jaunt up to 3/day with the Magic In the Blood Feat. There is a Ninja is this months Iron Chef which has a Lesser Shyft entry, perhaps that is a possible source for ideas? I believe a CAdv Ninja has one of the few ways of attacking from the Ethereal Plane as well (Force effects and Transdimensional spell etc only go one way).

[Chronos]

Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone) is the go-to class for sneakiness.

[Draz74]

Although if the cheesy Anthropomorphic Bat is allowed, it probably trumps all other options. :smalltongue:

[Person_Man]

Ninja is generally considered a weak, Tier 4 class. I would suggest using a Beguiler, Psychic Rogue, Factotum, or a homebrew Ninja fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186505) instead.

If you do stick with the Comp Adventurer Ninja, good racial choices are Whispergnome (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3), variant Kobold (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a), and Jermlaine (-6 Str +6 Dex -2 Con -2 Int +6 Wis -6 Cha, tiny, 40 ft move.,fey, monster manual 2 pg.131) are good options.

You're basically a one-trick pony. Main strategy is to just get a lot of attacks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595). Win Initiative, Sudden Strike flat footed enemies, then use Invisibility as needed to Sudden Strike some more. At higher levels you'll want to pick up some Sneak Attack feats (which Sudden Strike qualifies you for), like Staggering Strike, Craven, and Maiming Strike to improve your attacks.

[lsfreak]

I'll just ask if it's the style you want to play, or if there's something specific about the class (beyond the name) you're drawn to. This will help people determine what will work best.

For example, for a ninja style, I'd probably recommend a rogue as a base, and grabbing a couple levels of swordsage, a couple levels of Invisible Fist monk, and/or heading into shadowdancer and possibly telfammar shadowlord, depending on what's available and how you want it to play.

For a ninja class, I can't offer much, except my knowledge that it's much, much harder for a ninja to get his bonus damage than a rogue. Whatever you do, you're going to need some way of rendering your targets flat-footed with some regularity. Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236865) a few ideas.

[Seharvepernfan]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned swordsage yet.

I can't think of any LA+0 races besides the core ones. I'd suggest halfling for max sneakiness and attack reliability, elf for general better-ness (better weapons, better dex, better perception, better will save), human for their general utility, or dwarf for their toughness and resistances.

Str 12, Dex 16-18, Con 12-14, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8 is a decent stat-allotment.
The 12 in str is for that little bit of extra damage. You'd be surprised how much that matters at low levels. Don't neglect Con too much, even when your whole "thing" is about not getting hit in the first place - most DMs subconsciously think that players need to get hit every once in a while at least, or else they think they're making things too easy. You'll regret lowering Int or Wis, both are just too important for you. Cha is nice, but unnecessary. Of course, you want Dex as high as possible.

I'd love to play an elf ninja in a game built around sneakiness.

[sideswipe]

are there any equipments that i can use at low levels (aka low cost) to increase my hide?

[kulosle]

Jermlaine (-6 Str +6 Dex -2 Con -2 Int +6 Wis -6 Cha, tiny, 40 ft move.,fey, monster manual 2 pg.131

Oh wow this is such a fun race. Thank you for pointing this out to me.

[Seharvepernfan]

are there any equipments that i can use at low levels (aka low cost) to increase my hide?

There is the camouflage kit in complete adventurer.

[Big Fau]

are there any equipments that i can use at low levels (aka low cost) to increase my hide?

Anything capable of blinding an enemy, as that enables your Sudden Strike. A Masterwork Hide/Move Silently tool (50gp each) works nicely too (+2 bonus). A one-shot item from the Magic Item Compendium (Lesser Skillshard) is very cheap, but not particularly practical.

Also, the book Drow of the Underdark has some tricks related to having Darkness as a spell-like ability. You can get Darkness as an SLA several ways, but a personal favorite is using a Dragonmark (Eberron Campaign Setting, although you would have to be an Elf). This can suppliment your Ninja's invisibility, although it may take a few feats.

[lsfreak]

Anything capable of blinding an enemy, as that enables your Sudden Strike. A Masterwork Hide/Move Silently tool (50gp each) works nicely too (+2 bonus). A one-shot item from the Magic Item Compendium (Lesser Skillshard) is very cheap, but not particularly practical.

Also, the book Drow of the Underdark has some tricks related to having Darkness as a spell-like ability. You can get Darkness as an SLA several ways, but a personal favorite is using a Dragonmark (Eberron Campaign Setting, although you would have to be an Elf). This can suppliment your Ninja's invisibility, although it may take a few feats.

None of those work*. Sudden Strike requires flat-footedness, not denied Dex, which is much, much more difficult to get - you have to go first, and everything else takes a lot of work (certain class/feat combinations, setting up marbles or Grease to force balance checks).

*Apparently, Rules Compendium slipped in, without any precedence, a change that rendered creatures flat-footed if you successfully Hide from them. If you play with this, shadowdancer HiPS + a crazy-high hide check would work well, because it's only a -20 to hide while making an attack (i.e. roll a Hide check after every time you roll an attack, even on full attacks).

[ArcturusV]

Actually it is denied Dexterity bonus, not Flat-footed. So being Invisible, having total concealment, etc, would give it. Which is why the Ninja class gets Invisibility later on.

Still, for those who are new to DnD from third edition, it's a pain to pull off. To those who soldiered on with Thieves in earlier editions it's better than you're used to, as you can Range Attack with it (Old Note: earlier editions the Backstab ability, aka Sneak Attack, was melee only and required the enemy not to be aware of you, on top of the familiar limitations like being able to reach their vitals, not an undead, ooze, construct, outsider, etc).

But if you're playing from level 1 as a one shot? You're better off with Rogue in every conceivable way. More skill points, more reliable damage boost, better armor and thus survivability. If you're playing say, a campaign going from level 1 to level 3 only? The ninja might be better. If only for an invisibility when you need it (Albeit likely only 2-3 times per day).

[Fyermind]

Whisper gnomes! They get massive bonuses to hide and move silently, penalties to strength and charisma which weren't your specialty anyway, and boosts to dex and con which you need badly. Furthermore they give you silence as a SLA which compliments your invisibility nicely.

Shuriken are your friends. You are at almost no disadvantage fighting ranged over melee in terms of triggering your SS so take advantage of the higher to hit bonus.

If you want to be a real throwing master Strongheart halflings get a bonus feat and an extra +1 with thrown weapons. They can start out with Point Blank Shot (which, since all your ranged attacks are within 30' is just +1 attack and damage) and rapid shot or precise shot for either extra attacks or the ability to fire into melee without penalty.

Good Luck!

[lsfreak]

Actually it is denied Dexterity bonus, not Flat-footed. So being Invisible, having total concealment, etc, would give it. Which is why the Ninja class gets Invisibility later on.

Woops yep, getting sudden strike confused with iaijutsu focus :smallredface:
So invisibility or HiPS are going to be easiest.

I'd still recommend some combination of rogue, Invisible Fist monk, and swordsage over the ninja class, though.

[Fyermind]

Woops yep, getting sudden strike confused with iaijutsu focus :smallredface:
So invisibility or HiPS are going to be easiest.

I'd still recommend some combination of rogue, Invisible Fist monk, and swordsage over the ninja class, though.

Ninja is a poor choice for power, but it's what the OP asked for.

As long as other classes are being discussed, I am a big fan of Swordsage with a fighter dip for Hit and Run fighter and the Sneak attack variant taken with Weapon Finesse at first level. You then have another good level of dip before going into Sword sage, a single level of ninja or monk can be really fun if the wisdom to AC stacks with sword sage. Otherwise Rogue is good as is waiting and taking shadowdancer later on.