Introduce me to the world of Gish?

[Gharkash]

So, Knight Phantom (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) is the only class i have seen that managed to get me interested in gishes ( i generally do not like the idea), and i have to ask:

What feats would such a character have? Would it be more beneficial to focus on spellcaster feats to up his game with magic or try a more melee oriented build augmented by magic?

What is the optimal entry in the class, do you go wizard with tricks to get the martial weapons proficiency or martial1/wizard5/KP10/gish class 4?

Lets say we stay thematic, what shadow/smoke/dark/phantasmal spells would a character like that use (also combat augmentation spells like buffing and some combat themed spells).

Thanks in advance, i have little to no knowledge of spells and feats for casters, thus individual research would take too long to come up with something usefull. Assume mid to high op (not so high that not full caster is unacceptable).

[Flickerdart]

Abjurant Champion (all 5 levels) and Spellsword (only level 1) are staple gish Prestige Classes, and Arcane Strike is a very common way for gishes to turn their many spell slots into delicious extra damage.

[Snowbluff]

Or, if you are feeling like a boss, roll Swiftblade,
(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)which is easily the strongest prestige class in terms of features.

Martial Wizard6/Swiftblade9/Abjurant Champion.

This build can use Spontaneous Divination as well.

[ericgrau]

Your spells are lower level, your damage is lower and you have less AC & hp. So you better not be attacking nor casting every single round, but rather blend them nicely. Not even with magey buffs on the melee, nor passive defenses (e.g. paladin 2/sorc entry for saves) on the caster. I would open fights with an area spell or two to handle crowds, be it web or fireball. These are efficient even when at lower level than the party full caster's spells. Against lone foes try empowered ray of enfeeblement or another nice debuff. Then come in against the stragglers with your weapon. A weapon deals more damage than spells, and dividing the enemy forces means you don't have to tank well. Boom, synergy.

A knight phantom, assuming you're stuck on it and don't use another good option, has the added advantage of supplying fancy mounts for the entire party. The party can get places faster and advance the plot. You can move far and cast in the same round. The book's tip to dismount for melee is good though. A high ride modifier will let you do so as a free action.

From spell compendium the swift spells are excellent for gishes. You can cast and act in the same round. There's mobility like swift fly, or weapon buffs like bladeweave or blades of fire.

IMO any entry method is good. There's the old sorcadin entry for saves, anything else you want to grab with a quick dip, or just wizard/fighter for a feat and fast entry. Feats are likewise flexible. The best crowd control doesn't have a save or still has a good effect on a passed save. More damage is nice but it isn't your only focus. For race an illumian is good to get strength to bonus spells.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Knight Phantom really doesn't bring anything to the table that you couldn't have gotten from Eldritch Knight plus certain spells. You're really better off skipping it and saving yourself from wasting resources on its prerequisites. Note that Eldritch Knight gives you a net gain of two feats, one less spent for the prerequisites and one gained for the bonus feat at 1st level.

The goal for any gish is to get 9th level spells and a +16 BAB by 20th level, and there are some extremely efficient builds for doing this. My favorites are Illumian (Naenhoon) Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Chapion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8, or Human or Elf Paragon 1/ Wizard 2/ Fighter 1/ Human or Elf Paragon 2/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Incantatrix 4/ Eldritch Knight or Knight Phantom 4. Another popular choice goes Wizard 6/ Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) 9/ Abjurant Champion 5, using the UA Wizard variant to get a Fighter bonus feat at 1st and 5th instead of the standard Wizard bonus feats.

Note that a Naenhoon Illumian can Persist two spells per day, which if it stacks favorably with Extend that's four spells per day that last all day. Incantatrix can use both Metamagic Effect and Cooperative Metamagic to persist more spells than you would even need. Cooperative Metamagic can be used on your own spells outside of combat because action economy only exists during initiative. Note that an Incantatrix can take ten on those checks, and use an Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) for Invest Skill Ranks to get a huge bonus to the check. Sorcerer can use this trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4) to completely overcome their limited number of spells known.

A Gish is strong because he uses buffs to make himself a better combatant. Not just buffing his stats, but changing his form to exploit the strengths of certain creaturs. Alter Self into a Crucian for +8 natural armor, until you can Polymorph into an Annis Hag or a Cave Troll or a War Troll, until you can (Persistent) Draconic Polymorph into a War Troll, until you can (Persistent) Shapechange and break the game. You can combine a Persistent Bite of the Werecreature spell with any of those for unmatched ability scores.

You don't need to worry about wearing armor, especially if you're good aligned. Cast (Persistent) Shield and get a +9 bonus from Abjurant Champion. Cast (Greater) Mage Armor if you're not good aligned or (Greater) Luminous Armor if you are good. (Greater) Mage Armor is +4 or +6, (Greater) Luminous Armor benefits from Abjurant Champion and goes up to +13, plus opponents have a -4 penalty to hit. Remember that you can benefit from a Monk's Belt AC bonus with all of that, there's no max Dex, and you can Polymorph into any form and still benefit from the same AC bonuses.

Power Attack plus Arcane Strike gives you some decent damage. Combine it with Wraithstrike and you'll never miss. Wraithstrike can go on a wand and be put in a wand chamber of a weapon, or even better it can be made Persistent. Brilliant Energy weapons are for peasants that can't cast spells. Just casting it in the lower levels you can Lesser Rod of Extend it so it lasts two rounds, which even if it's spontaneously cast it won't take longer with metamagic as that only applies to casting times of a standard action or greater. Greater Magic Weapon means you don't need to buy a magical weapon. You can even use Persistent Thunderlance later on plus Greater Magic Weapon, and use Fell Drain and/or Fell Frighten with it to add negative effects every time you hit.

Defensive spells are almost too many to count, especially with Persistent Spell. There's Shield, Swift Expeditious Retreat, Swift Fly, Displacement, Ray Deflection, Greater Invisibility, Greater Mirror Image, etc. There's also the Minor Shapeshift reserve feat in CM that gives you a nice temporary HP cushion that can be renewed every round. That much less damage per round will be going toward your actual HP, making for an incredibly tanky character. You can also keep Fire Shield twice and Death Armor each with Persistent Spell and Fell Drain Spell, so anything that hits you gains three negative levels per hit.

I could go on, but that should be enough to get you started.

[nedz]

I'm sure there's a Gish Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8786) lying around somewhere — that might give you a few pointers. Actually there are several (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5525).

[ericgrau]

Knight Phantom really doesn't bring anything to the table that you couldn't have gotten from Eldritch Knight plus certain spells.
Early water walking turbo mounts for the whole party are convenient in most campaigns. The rest is minor but you'd need high level quickened spells to duplicate them, except they don't actually eat your swift. Everything significant in abjurant champion seems to eat your swift.

I think abjurant champion is a little better, but not by much normally. And the knight seems cool and it seems like the OP could have fun with it. In fact assuming super high OP, and I think that's a big assumption 95% of the time, abjurant champion seems completely worthless. The only ability that doesn't burn your swift is abjurant armor. Even then the abjurations aren't worth the casting time and by abjurant champion 5 there are better spells to persist. For example bite of the wereX still gives better numbers. Meanwhile the swift abilities are minor and you need your swift for more broken things like wraithstrike.

For thematic crowd control spells I'd try black tentacles and solid fog. If I had time I'd come up with more, but take a look at the PHB and spell compendium. Just a quick glance showed several, heck there are 9 with "phant" in the name. I'd suggest crowd control and swifts like I said before. Hour/level buffs are nice too, to cast in the morning.

[Urpriest]

Early water walking turbo mounts for the whole party are convenient in most campaigns. The rest is minor but you'd need high level quickened spells to duplicate them, except they don't actually eat your swift. Everything significant in abjurant champion seems to eat your swift.

I think abjurant champion is a little better, but not by much normally. And the knight seems cool and it seems like the OP could have fun with it. In fact assuming super high OP, and I think that's a big assumption 95% of the time, abjurant champion seems completely worthless. The only ability that doesn't burn your swift is abjurant armor. Even then the abjurations aren't worth the casting time and by abjurant champion 5 there are better spells to persist. For example bite of the wereX still gives better numbers. Meanwhile the swift abilities are minor and you need your swift for more broken things like wraithstrike.

For thematic crowd control spells I'd try black tentacles and solid fog. If I had time I'd come up with more, but take a look at the PHB and spell compendium. Just a quick glance showed several, heck there are 9 with "phant" in the name. I'd suggest crowd control and swifts like I said before. Hour/level buffs are nice too, to cast in the morning.

Huh? By the time you get in to Knight Phantom, you can cast Phantom Steed. I guess it saves you 3rd level slots, but the steeds it gives you are still worse than you would have normally since they scale by class level, not character level.

[ericgrau]

Oh it's by wizard level + phantom level not by caster level + phantom level. I missed that. I thought you got a boosted steed caster level. That's a bit disappointing. It does save spells per day at levels when it's hard to get the whole party a set of steeds, for turbo plot advancement. So all in all it's still a set of minor abilities and not much different from the other options. Main point was why pressure the OP into switching to something that's only a little different when he likes the fluff of his choice?

[137beth]

If you are looking for other gish classes, the magus (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcasters/magus.html) does it pretty darn well...

[Snowbluff]

If you are looking for other gish classes, the magus (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcasters/magus.html) does it pretty darn well...

Except it fails both of the above criteria by earning neither full BaB or 9th level spells.

[Humble Master]

Don't forget Diamond Mind maneuvers. Replace your saves with concentration checks.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Don't forget Diamond Mind maneuvers. Replace your saves with concentration checks.

Umm what does this have to do with gishes? As great as they are, Warblades aren't that useful for gish builds since they don't get the full proficiencies that are needed for many staple gish prestige classes.

[Humble Master]

Umm what does this have to do with gishes? As great as they are, Warblades aren't that useful for gish builds since they don't get the full proficiencies that are needed for many staple gish prestige classes. If you are talking about weapon and armor proficiency I don't see the problem with Warblades. They get proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor and shields (except tower shields).

Is there something I am missing?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Some gishy prestige class require proficiency with ALL martial weapons (included range) and all Armour types (including heavy), and Warblade doesn't cover that requirement.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

It would still cost you a feat to get one of the diamond mind maneuvers, but if you dip crusader instead, you have a better refresh mechanic, full weapon and armor proficiencies, and devoted spirit. Then there's the Jade Pheonix Mage PrC to to add to the mix.