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Septimus Faber
2013-07-03, 10:41 AM
Hi everyone, just wondering if someone can help me with an issue I'm having with the other PCs in our DM's 3.5e campaign.

They're great guys and really good friends, but they seem to have it in for me. I'm on my seventh character in about 6 months now. On one occasion one of the other PCs killed me seemingly unprovoked (in a manner which I will not go into). Another time, a spellcaster killed my very promising Githzerai Monk/Sorcerer, and the PCs looted my character's corpse, taking (among other things) a ring of Spider Climb and a valuable Brilliant Energy Quarterstaff, even though they already had a brilliant energy weapon!

Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this? Can anyone help me with it?

Jay R
2013-07-03, 09:48 PM
A. Ask them. It could simply be that they are PvP type players and you're the one not defending against the other players. It could be that they are gunning for you. Ask them.

B. Ask the DM. He may tell you something that they won't.

C. Find another game if you don't enjoy this one.

The Extinguisher
2013-07-03, 11:12 PM
Clearly the healthy answer is to make a character so cheesy and min-maxed that the next time they try and go for you, you can slaughter them all.

Or you can just ask them what's going on. I guess that's an option too.

WarKitty
2013-07-03, 11:37 PM
Clearly the healthy answer is to make a character so cheesy and min-maxed that the next time they try and go for you, you can slaughter them all.

Or you can just ask them what's going on. I guess that's an option too.

Actually, this might be instructive. Or rather, assume that this is the way they play - they just like PvP and you weren't expecting it. Build a character for that. See how they react.

Mutazoia
2013-07-04, 12:39 AM
Actually, this might be instructive. Or rather, assume that this is the way they play - they just like PvP and you weren't expecting it. Build a character for that. See how they react.

Remember....their character's have to sleep some time. The fist time your PC gets the night watch, coup de grace them all with a rock while they sleep and take all THEIR stuff....

("After all it's not REAL stuff and you can roll new characters..why get bent out of shape about it, right guys?" Muhahahah)

The Dark Fiddler
2013-07-04, 07:24 AM
A. Ask them. It could simply be that they are PvP type players and you're the one not defending against the other players. It could be that they are gunning for you. Ask them.

B. Ask the DM. He may tell you something that they won't.

C. Find another game if you don't enjoy this one.

This. Whenever you have problems with somebody in the group, the first choice should always be to talk it out. Anything else may be missing important details. If (as I suspect they will) they don't give you anything concrete to work on, my next suggestion would be to take precautions with your next character. If they whine about metagaming, tell them that the large number of their compatriots who are never seen again have started up the rumor mill, and it's widely thought that something fishy is going on. Not enough to cause investigations, but enough to make people take precautions when working with them.

As for suggestions there, I'd say spellcasters who sleep in Rope Tricks and keep false spell books filled with Explosive Runes on them. I once took Sudden Maximize specifically to maximize the explosive runes I kept in my spell book, in case somebody stole my books. I also glamored my real book to look like a simple box, and had it set to release a nauseating cloud if they touched it without permission.

Madfellow
2013-07-04, 11:08 AM
Try playing a battle sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana). From a thematic and a mechanical standpoint it's very similar to a monk/sorcerer, except it's more optimized. Swap out your familiar for an animal companion (also Unearthed Arcana).

If I had to guess, I'd say your party is doing this because they want to farm your character for XP and loot. Every time they kill one, you make another and bring in a whole character's worth of wealth by level. That's a very tempting prize for a cutthroat party. The best way to get them to stop (if asking nicely doesn't work) is to make it more trouble than it's worth.

Sidmen
2013-07-04, 11:23 AM
The easiest and quickest solution would be to tell everyone when you start playing your next character: "Hi guys, I'm no longer willing to join in with PVP. Don't try to kill any more of my characters - I won't participate in that fight."

Then, if they do try to kill you, calmly fold your character sheet and walk into the kitchen to wait for them to stop being children.

Madfellow
2013-07-04, 11:30 AM
I actually had to deal with a similar problem in my last campaign. My character got killed once in PvP. Except instead of making a new character, my DM demanded that the responsible players pay to have my character resurrected. And I got to keep all my old loot. The party quickly learned that PvP doesn't pay off.

nedz
2013-07-04, 12:05 PM
Play a VoP Druid. You have an AC to guard you and no loot to steal.

Talakeal
2013-07-04, 04:24 PM
Try playing a battle sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana). From a thematic and a mechanical standpoint it's very similar to a monk/sorcerer, except it's more optimized. Swap out your familiar for an animal companion (also Unearthed Arcana).

If I had to guess, I'd say your party is doing this because they want to farm your character for XP and loot. Every time they kill one, you make another and bring in a whole character's worth of wealth by level. That's a very tempting prize for a cutthroat party. The best way to get them to stop (if asking nicely doesn't work) is to make it more trouble than it's worth.

I was in a group that did that once. We didn't murder one another though, we just had an agreement that if anyone was even slightly tired of their character they would find a way to commit suicide where the rest of the party could easily loot their body.


I actually had to deal with a similar problem in my last campaign. My character got killed once in PvP. Except instead of making a new character, my DM demanded that the responsible players pay to have my character resurrected. And I got to keep all my old loot. The party quickly learned that PvP doesn't pay off.

I was did something very similar in my game and was told by both the players and this forum that I was a terrible DM for dictating the player's actions for OOC reasons.

Swordprince
2013-07-04, 05:01 PM
Hi everyone, just wondering if someone can help me with an issue I'm having with the other PCs in our DM's 3.5e campaign.

They're great guys and really good friends, but they seem to have it in for me. I'm on my seventh character in about 6 months now. On one occasion one of the other PCs killed me seemingly unprovoked (in a manner which I will not go into). Another time, a spellcaster killed my very promising Githzerai Monk/Sorcerer, and the PCs looted my character's corpse, taking (among other things) a ring of Spider Climb and a valuable Brilliant Energy Quarterstaff, even though they already had a brilliant energy weapon!

Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this? Can anyone help me with it?

Wow, wait a second...SEVENTH character? If you play once a week, like I used to with my friends, that means you die once a month man. Why are you putting up with that? Make a character powerful enough to annihilate them :P

On the flip side, the game is just basically being ruined for some players when PCs attack each other. In most cases, something like that is not good, and is usually detrimental for a campaign.

Simply tell them to stop it because it's not fun having to make a new character all the time. Quite frankly, I wouldn't stand for it. I'm the kind of guy who really puts a lot of work into his characters, and I certainly don't wanna have it ruined by someone who thinks it's fun to kill other people's characters. I'm also willing to bet your friends didn't really put much effort into their characters, because they are probably assuming their characters might die as well, due to retribution or some such.

Basically, just tell them to stop, because you don't want to make a new character all the time. I know that stuff like this ruined some games for me as well. Though my friends were nice about it - if I asked them not to do it, they didn't. Although they did sometimes make me paranoid xD They were great guys though, loved playing with them.

Jormengand
2013-07-04, 07:25 PM
The following are all ways to make them regret screwing with you. Enjoy.

Those involving spellcasting generally assume that you have 9th level spells, which I doubt, but can all be pulled off with third-level ones save the resurrecting one which needs fifth.

Method 1: Have the next character be a half-red/gold dragon or otherwise fire immune (or very fire resistant), and have a Necklace of Fireballs or two hidden on his person, and take the fireball spell or equivalent. The next time that someone attacks you, run up to them if you aren't there already (Move), tell them what you are about to do (Free), and ready an action to cast Fireball on yourself if one of your opponents attempts to run away or attack you (standard). Decline to take the reflex save for your necklace(s) of fireballs. Steal all your opponents' stuff.

Method 2: Your opponent's bag of holding (this assumes they have one) is probably a tiny object and has no DEX modifier, meaning that it's got AC 7. Really easy to hit. Make a ranged attack roll (with -4 improvised weapon penalty, so you'll need a half-decent attack bonus) using a portable hole. Boom.

Method 3: Buy as many cursed items as possible. Die. Repeat.

Method 4: Be Pun-Pun, Chuck, the Infinite Crusader, The Infinite Rogue, the Infinite Commoner, or just optimised enough to wipe the floor with them all in a round.

Method 5: Do not join the party, but instead have an absurdly high stealth (or hide and move silently) and sleight of hand value. Steal their best stuff.

Method 6: Do not join the party. Be a rogue or a ninja, and make many sneak attacks before they know you exist. Preferably while sneaking.

Method 7: Cast a gate to a dead-magic plane behind them. Bull rush them into it. Dismiss the gate.

Method 8: Send them into Sigil and find a way to get the Lady of Pain angry with them.

Method 9: Do not join the party. Trap everything with something like Explosive Runes or Symbol of Madness. Summon creatures to fight them. Gate in outsiders beyond your control and D-door out. Drop the room they're standing in on top of them. Use Arcane Lock on anything they could conceivably want to open. Web every room. Throw walls of fire in the party's path. Stick Hungry Pits everywhere, usually covered by Silent Images of the floor. Shove walls of iron in their path. Set them upon each other with symbols of persuasion. Block them with Ramparts. Put down Delayed Blast Fireballs. Use Prismatic Walls to annoy them intensely. Summon Creature whatever and chuck undead at them whenever possible. When you're out of spells, rest in a Mage's Private Sanctum.

Method 10: Take the Vow of Poverty or only use consumables so you have no stuff that they can steal. Go down fighting.

Method 11: Use every touch-based trap that the caster does not trigger and that you can cast on all your equipment.

Method 12: Use your new character to cast Raise Dead, Resurrection or True Resurrection on all your old ones.

The Dreaded 13th Method: Get a longbow, proficiency with it, and at least one arrow for each party member, and prepare the following spells:
1st: Magic weapon, true strike in a number of slots equal to number of other party members
2st: Arrow Eruption if you're allowed to use it, otherwise heightened true strike in the other slots. Maybe a spare magic weapon.
3rd: Explosive Runes in all slots.
4th: Heightened Explosive Runes in all slots.
5th: Quickened true strike in all slots.
6th: Quickened arrow eruption if you're allowed it, Mage's private sanctum if wished, otherwise Maximised Explosive Runes or Symbol of Persuasion/Fear in all slots.
7th: Maximised heightened Explosive Runes or heightened Symbol of X
8th: Maximised empowered Explosive Runes or Symbol of Death.
9th: Interplanetary teleport. Maximised empowered heightened Explosive Runes or Heightened Symbol of Death for the rest.

Then, split your traps between the four arrows (unless you have Arrow Eruption, in which case you need only one). Use magic weapon and true strike, and fire the arrow at offending party member. They are essentially going to die from the sheer number of Explosive Runes on that thing. You can full-round attack to kill two people if needed, but you don't get True Strike on the second one so be careful. If you have it, cast Quickened Arrow Eruption to fire an exact duplicate of that first arrow, and next round use Arrow Eruption and Quickened Arrow Eruption to do it again. If you are denied it, you instead need to survive the next round before you use Quickened True Strike and another attack, and keep on doing so until you have killed everyone. If things get sticky, use interplanetary teleport to get out, obviously subbing in a lower-level one if needed.

Zeful
2013-07-04, 10:02 PM
Get a Greataxe, a potion of silence, and the next time the character sleeps, hit him with an insane DC on a coup de grace that goes well beyond what most characters are capable of resisting on anything but a 20 for several levels.

Works even better if you have a high strength modifier. Being able to force a dc 46+ save against instant death at most levels will get people's attention.

Kazemi
2013-07-04, 10:55 PM
Method 12: Use your new character to cast Raise Dead, Resurrection or True Resurrection on all your old ones.

This amuses me to no end. Especially so if all of your characters were related.


The Dreaded 13th Method: Get a longbow, proficiency with it, and at least one arrow for each party member, and prepare the following spells:
1st: Magic weapon, true strike in a number of slots equal to number of other party members
2st: Arrow Eruption if you're allowed to use it, otherwise heightened true strike in the other slots. Maybe a spare magic weapon.
3rd: Explosive Runes in all slots.
4th: Heightened Explosive Runes in all slots.
5th: Quickened true strike in all slots.
6th: Quickened arrow eruption if you're allowed it, Mage's private sanctum if wished, otherwise Maximised Explosive Runes or Symbol of Persuasion/Fear in all slots.
7th: Maximised heightened Explosive Runes or heightened Symbol of X
8th: Maximised empowered Explosive Runes or Symbol of Death.
9th: Interplanetary teleport. Maximised empowered heightened Explosive Runes or Heightened Symbol of Death for the rest.

Then, split your traps between the four arrows (unless you have Arrow Eruption, in which case you need only one). Use magic weapon and true strike, and fire the arrow at offending party member. They are essentially going to die from the sheer number of Explosive Runes on that thing. You can full-round attack to kill two people if needed, but you don't get True Strike on the second one so be careful. If you have it, cast Quickened Arrow Eruption to fire an exact duplicate of that first arrow, and next round use Arrow Eruption and Quickened Arrow Eruption to do it again. If you are denied it, you instead need to survive the next round before you use Quickened True Strike and another attack, and keep on doing so until you have killed everyone. If things get sticky, use interplanetary teleport to get out, obviously subbing in a lower-level one if needed.

I had never even considered making a character so based on two/three spells and tons of Metamagics :smalleek:

Steward
2013-07-05, 12:44 AM
Just once I'd like one of these threads to contain a sentence along the lines of, "I tried talking to them and this is what they said..." If you can't speak to these people, are they really your friends? Can you blame them for not realizing that their behavior is annoying you?

Septimus Faber
2013-07-05, 09:17 AM
Wow, wait a second...SEVENTH character? If you play once a week, like I used to with my friends, that means you die once a month man.

Yeah... I die. A lot.


Remember....their character's have to sleep some time. The fist time your PC gets the night watch, coup de grace them all with a rock while they sleep and take all THEIR stuff....


That would be fantastic, but our DM is the "winging it" kind of person, and we generally ignore sleep.


Clearly the healthy answer is to make a character so cheesy and min-maxed that the next time they try and go for you, you can slaughter them all.


Again, that would work, but there is one problem. One of the offending players plays a race that is... shall we say... campaign-smashing. It's basically a homebrew Dryad, but has loads of awesome abilities and LA +0!!!! I mean, how unfair is that? There is an excuse, I guess, it was designed when none of us knew very much about the D+D rules, but the DM hasn't acknowledged this or changed it. And now the character's under the effect of a permanencied Shapechange! At ECL 5!

See what I mean?


Send them into Sigil and find a way to get the Lady of Pain angry with them.


That has to be the most quotable sentence I've heard in a long time. I have to have that as my forum signature.


The following are all ways to make them regret screwing with you. Enjoy.

Those involving spellcasting generally assume that you have 9th level spells, which I doubt, but can all be pulled off with third-level ones save the resurrecting one which needs fifth.


My wizard is only ECL 4... slight problem there.

Also, my DM is very harsh about characters dying (we always have to come back one level lower, even when that puts us ridiculously far behind the others) and has a shaky - at best - grasp of the XP system. He just arbitrarily levels us up when he thinks we've decapitated enough monsters. And now he's saying that he'll only give XP to the players who actually kill things in an encounter rather than just wounding them.

I see where people who tell me to find another game are coming from, but there aren't really any other games where I am... plus they are really good friends in all respects except PvP and I don't just want to walk out on them.

But it's hard to stay, sometimes, when one of them keeps a friendly-fire tally. :)

Madfellow
2013-07-05, 09:52 AM
You should sit down and have a chat with the whole group, then. The DM, the players, all of them. Tell the DM that he should actually READ the rules on XP and leveling and FOLLOW them. The whole point of those rules is to make the game fair, and a fair game is always more fun. Tell the DM and the players that the homebrewed dryad is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. And explain to them that always coming back one level behind (even if you make a new character, which is again in violation of the rules) is putting you way behind the curve compared to the other players and continually sets you up as easy prey for them. And tell them that if they don't take steps to make the game fair for everyone, you're just not going to play. You can still hang out with them, but I don't recommend participating in a game that's stacked against you.

Edit: A level 4 wizard? Please tell me you have the Color Spray spell and at least one mundane weapon. You'll also need a decent constitution and dexterity.

Big Fau
2013-07-05, 10:26 AM
I see where people who tell me to find another game are coming from, but there aren't really any other games where I am... plus they are really good friends in all respects except PvP and I don't just want to walk out on them.

Good friends don't gank fellow players without consent. And there's a real difference between a good friend and a good player. None of the people in your group sound like good players (especially the DM), and you are better off with Play-by-Post or DMing your own game. With blackjack and hookers.

Jormengand
2013-07-05, 10:27 AM
That has to be the most quotable sentence I've heard in a long time. I have to have that as my forum signature.

Go ahead.

The Portable Hole and Necklace of fireballs ones can still be done (Just use a Fireball from the necklace itself. Cursed items still work. Pun-Pun, the Infinite Rogue and the Infinite commoner still work. Stealing things still works. Sneak attacks still work. Lady of pain still works if you can coax them into Sigil. Some low-level spell traps still work. Vow still works. Trapping your equipment probably won't work, unfortunately.


This amuses me to no end. Especially so if all of your characters were related.



I had never even considered making a character so based on two/three spells and tons of Metamagics :smalleek:

I did this one before, and arrived with a whole screwyou-full of characters. I then gated all my enemies bodies into a dead-magic plane.


I've also done this one, and destroyed an entire party before they knew what had hit them. Terrific fun.


The best one to do, however, is the one where you trap everything. I played a game which was basically a 1v10, but I was allowed to be level 15 and they were only level 12. Level 15 is still enough for eighth-level spellcasting. There's also a way of reducing your resting time to 2 hours. Essentially, I ended up trapping everything the party went near, blocking their path and throwing summoned creatures at them. Great fun.

Septimus Faber
2013-07-05, 10:59 AM
Just to clear powergaming ideas up... I have very limited access to supplements. I have all Core at my disposal, plus Expanded Psionics Handbook and Complete Arcane, but that's it.

I have an idea... can anyone give me an ECL four build focused completely on defense/counterattacks, not relying on magic items (the DM only gives PCs made above first level mundane starting equipment, none of the whole "calculate-how-many-magic-items-they-have-so-far sort of stuff) and using only the supplements mentioned above + core? Or alternatively - just any CRAZY INSANE ULTIMATE CHEESY POWERGAMING ideas using the same criteria? (core+ xph and carc, ecl 4, not reliant on magic items) I am a big fan of powergaming but have never really managed to pull a Pun-Pun-esque character off successfully. (All hail Pun-Pun - that's the sort of degree of powergaming I need if I'm going to stand a chance. Besides the dryad thing, both of the other PCs are much more experienced than me).


Please tell me you have Color Spray

I'm slightly confused here - why is Color Spray so good?
Thanks everyone, you've been really helpful.

What are the Infinite Rogue and the Infinite Commoner? They sound promising, but I can't find them on the internet. Are we talking Chicken-Infested here?

Emmerask
2013-07-05, 11:07 AM
Whats the level? cause some builds have a certain level requirement before becoming really good.

Overall I would say wizard/Initiate of the sevenfold veil (prc) is your best bet for an unstoppable character ^^

(edit ah you wrote four, i was looking for a number.
Anyway level 4 is a bit low for an unstoppable build without massive cheese that will lead to the dm throwing books at you ^^

So I have no idea really.

Jormengand
2013-07-05, 11:07 AM
I have an idea... can anyone give me an ECL four build focused completely on defense/counterattacks.

Large Lucerne hammer (or glaive), lighten weapon or monkey's grip with improved versions, combat reflexes, stand still, hold the line, combat patrol if you're allowed it, fighter levels. You can make many, many attacks of opportunity. Many many. Be an orc. Also, being a half-dragon can work if you get the LA +2 version rather than the LA +3. You may then proceed to hit anyone who you threaten (quite a few people) for ridiculous amounts of damage if they try to charge you or get too close.

Or, take the Young template and wizard to access 3rd level spells and have crazy AC. Explosive runes, I prepared them this morning.


Whats the level? cause some builds have a certain level requirement before becoming really good.

Overall I would say wizard/Initiate of the sevenfold veil (prc) is your best bet for an unstoppable character ^^

ECL 4.


What are the Infinite Rogue and the Infinite Commoner? They sound promising, but I can't find them on the internet. Are we talking Chicken-Infested here?

Infinite commoner is chickens. Infinite rogue is draw/drop free action abuse, which you can technically apply sneak attack to because it requires an attack roll, just not an attack action.

Septimus Faber
2013-07-05, 11:18 AM
If the DM throws books at me, I frankly do not care, I NEED massive unstoppable cheese, I am open to anything (as long as it still fits the criteria from my last post).

N.B. Read my last post before replying, please. It gives stuff you need to know about access to supplements etc.

Septimus Faber
2013-07-05, 11:19 AM
Infinite rogue is draw/drop free action abuse

Could you clarify? I'm a little confused.

Ceaon
2013-07-05, 11:21 AM
As you so eloquently stated in your topic title, this is a player problem, not a character problem. You solve these kinds of problems with the other players (including the DM), not with their characters.

Jormengand
2013-07-05, 11:26 AM
Could you clarify? I'm a little confused.

You can draw a throwing weapon, ammunition or spell component (even for a spell you do not know) as a free action, and drop it as a free action. It requires a ranged touch attack roll to hit, but not an attack action. Therefore, you run up to them as a move action, dropping a stool as you run. You stand on the stool with the rest of your movement, and jump over their head. While in midair, you take out a dagger and drop it on them. You take out a dagger and drop it on them. You take out a dagger and drop it on them. You take out a dagger and drop it on them. You take out a dagger and drop it on them.

And so on. You can make as many sneak attacks as you like, and then you land on your feet in the square next to their cold dead body.

Septimus Faber
2013-07-05, 11:41 AM
You can draw a throwing weapon, ammunition or spell component (even for a spell you do not know) as a free action

Presumably only if you have Quickdraw.


As you so eloquently stated in your topic title, this is a player problem, not a character problem. You solve these kinds of problems with the other players (including the DM), not with their characters.


I acknowledge that this is a perfectly acceptable argument, and I will try and sort it out by discussion, but let us for the moment assume that powergaming is the answer.

Keep the Pun-Pun-esque cheese coming, folks. You've been really helpful.

Madfellow
2013-07-05, 11:45 AM
The cleric, druid, wizard, and sorcerer are the 4 strongest classes in core. Of those, the wizard and sorcerer suffer from low HP, so they might not be the best choice. However, the battle sorcerer option (available on the online open-source system reference document website for free and completely legal) gives the sorcerer a much-needed boost in HP and armor. The website is d20srd.org.

Color Spray is useful because it's a 15-foot cone that blinds anything with 4 hit dice or fewer and stuns anything with 5 hit dice or more. If nothing else, it will buy you time if you get into a fight.

Alternatively, you could go with a barbarian (tons of HP, rage, and can't be taken by surprise).

Anything else I wouldn't recommend in the event of a direct confrontation.

Septimus Faber
2013-07-05, 11:46 AM
Large Lucerne hammer (or glaive), lighten weapon or monkey's grip with improved versions, combat reflexes, stand still, hold the line, combat patrol if you're allowed it, fighter levels. You can make many, many attacks of opportunity. Many many. Be an orc. Also, being a half-dragon can work if you get the LA +2 version rather than the LA +3. You may then proceed to hit anyone who you threaten (quite a few people) for ridiculous amounts of damage if they try to charge you or get too close.



I'll take your word for it. I have heard of some, but by no means all, of this stuff. Please remember what supplements I have.

Also, where is LA +2 half-dragon? Monster Manual I?

Madfellow
2013-07-05, 11:51 AM
Also, where is LA +2 half-dragon? Monster Manual I?

No, the one in the MM1 is LA +4. The +2 version might be in Races of the Dragon, but since you don't have that one I wouldn't worry about it.

Jormengand
2013-07-05, 12:11 PM
Presumably only if you have Quickdraw.



I acknowledge that this is a perfectly acceptable argument, and I will try and sort it out by discussion, but let us for the moment assume that powergaming is the answer.

Keep the Pun-Pun-esque cheese coming, folks. You've been really helpful.Nope. Otherwise, you'd need quickdraw to make FRAA's with throwing weapons.


I'll take your word for it. I have heard of some, but by no means all, of this stuff. Please remember what supplements I have.

Also, where is LA +2 half-dragon? Monster Manual I?
Convince your DM to allow pathfinder material. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/)

Septimus Faber
2013-07-05, 12:27 PM
Would this work?

ECL 4 Half-Giant(LA+1) Battle Sorcerer (can use large weapons!)

Learn spells like Color Spray. Get Battle Caster feat. Optimize for AoOs. Smash.

Jormengand
2013-07-05, 12:28 PM
Would this work?

ECL 4 Half-Giant(LA+1) Battle Sorcerer (can use large weapons!)

Learn spells like Color Spray. Get Battle Caster feat. Optimize for AoOs. Smash.

Yeah, that might do it.

Madfellow
2013-07-05, 12:38 PM
Would this work?

ECL 4 Half-Giant(LA+1) Battle Sorcerer (can use large weapons!)

Learn spells like Color Spray. Get Battle Caster feat. Optimize for AoOs. Smash.

+2 to Strength and Constitution, oversized weapons, immune to humanoids-only spells, be large whenever you want to be, and use Stomp twice per day.

This

Is

Fantastic!

Septimus Faber
2013-07-05, 12:46 PM
+2 to Strength and Constitution, oversized weapons, immune to humanoids-only spells, be large whenever you want to be, and use Stomp twice per day.

This

Is

Fantastic!

Wahoo! Pun-Pun-like notoriety, here I come! Thank you so much, everyone. Keep the powergaming ideas coming though, they're still useful. Thank you!

Morbis Meh
2013-07-05, 02:44 PM
Wahoo! Pun-Pun-like notoriety, here I come! Thank you so much, everyone. Keep the powergaming ideas coming though, they're still useful. Thank you!

...this is nowhere near the level of pun pun lol

Madfellow
2013-07-05, 03:31 PM
Hey, do you think you could post your build up when it's finished so we can see how this turns out? I'm kinda curious.

Ulysses WkAmil
2013-07-05, 07:41 PM
Personally, I think teaching the players a lesson by shoving PvP back in their face is a devious idea. It will teach them a lesson and I love it. But the wiser playgrounders might warn against this behavior.

Big Fau
2013-07-05, 08:18 PM
I'm slightly confused here - why is Color Spray so good?

Since no one seemed to answer this, here:


Color Spray
Illusion (Pattern) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 15 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Each creature within the cone is affected according to its Hit Dice.

2 HD or less
The creature is unconscious, blinded, and stunned for 2d4 rounds, then blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds, and then stunned for 1 round. (Only living creatures are knocked unconscious.)

3 or 4 HD
The creature is blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds, then stunned for 1 round.

5 or more HD
The creature is stunned for 1 round.

Sightless creatures are not affected by color spray.

It can flat-out kill low-level characters, and severely hurts characters above 2nd level (especially if they have 3 or 4HD, as being stunned for 1d4 rounds can result in a very fast death). Even if they are above 5HD they are vulnerable to losing a turn, and since's it a 15ft cone its very efficient when you are outnumbered (just make sure everything in the area is vulnerable to mind-affecting spells).


Color Spray (and it's sibling Sleep) are commonly used as a Save or Die-style spell via Wizards carrying scythes for coup de grace attempts.

Madfellow
2013-07-05, 08:22 PM
Since no one seemed to answer this, here:

This was answered, actually, on the previous page. :smallwink:

smasher0404
2013-07-06, 01:29 AM
Another in game solution could be to abuse the greed of your fellow players. Use any means of gaining an arbitrarily large amount of wealth like selling ladders as two ten foot poles. Next place the majority of the wealth under paid magical protection, and give all the other characters a salary from said fund as long as that character is still alive. Using your remaining wealth hire bodyguards to protect you and buy magical items that can only be used by your class race and alignment. Now, it is more economically beneficial to the party to keep your character alive than attempting to kill it. Just in case, however, have your living will contain a clause putting a bounty out on your fellow party members if you have died.

Septimus Faber
2013-07-06, 03:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey, do you think you could post your build up when it's finished so we can see how this turns out? I'm kinda curious.

Here it is, more or less (I haven't really worked out the familiar and such, but it's pretty much done). Sorry about the layout, I've never posted a build before.

ECL 4
Half-Giant LA+1 Battle Sorcerer 3
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
HD 3d8+6 (35hp)
Ability Scores Str 20 (+5) Dex 14 (+2) Con 14 (+2) Int 13 (+1) Wis 5 (-3) Cha 17 (+3)
Saves Fort +4 (+1 base, con +3) Ref +5 (+1 base, dex +2, familiar +2), Will +0 (+3 base, -3 wis) (conditional: +2 saves against fire)
AC 16 (+4 scale mail, +2 dex)
Grapple modifier +11(!) +2 BaB +5 Str +4 size
Initiative +2 (dex)
Languages: Common, Giant
Racial/Class features: Familiar, Spells, Giant type, Fire Acclimated (+2 saves/fire), Powerful Build (function as Large in opposed checks if doing so would be good, use Large weapons without penalty), Naturally Psionic (+2 pp at 1st level).
Flaws: Inattentive (-4 Spot and Listen), Murky-Eyed (roll concealment miss chance twice).
Feats: Battle Caster, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
Skills: Concentration 6 ranks, Intimidate 6 ranks, Spellcraft 6 ranks.
Weapons and Armor: Large warhammer (base damage 2d6), scale mail.
Spells Known: Detect Magic, Light, Read Magic, Ghost Sound, Color Spray, True Strike.
Spells per Day:5+1 lv0, 4+1 lv1.
Familiar: Weasel (+2 Ref saves).
Spell Failure Chance: 0%.

Tactics: Move into melee. Trip up - since he has Improved Trip, get a free attack at full Bab. 2d6+5. On their turn, getting up takes a move action. Attack of Opportunity. 2d6+5. Smash. Unless they're a spellcaster, all they can do is 5-foot step away. Attack of Opportunity. 2d6+5. Wham.
Rinse and repeat. Smack with warhammer going down, smash with warhammer coming up.

Alternatively, knock them prone with stomp and THEN whack them with a Large warhammer.

Or, blind them with Color Spray, and SMASH. Fun fun fun! :smallbiggrin:

Please review and critique honestly!

Arbane
2013-07-06, 04:34 AM
Also, my DM is very harsh about characters dying (we always have to come back one level lower, even when that puts us ridiculously far behind the others) and has a shaky - at best - grasp of the XP system. He just arbitrarily levels us up when he thinks we've decapitated enough monsters. And now he's saying that he'll only give XP to the players who actually kill things in an encounter rather than just wounding them.


FLEE THIS GAME. NOW. Set fire to it as you leave, if you feel it's necessary.


I see where people who tell me to find another game are coming from, but there aren't really any other games where I am...

As the RPGnet Hivemind likes to say, 'no gaming is better than bad gaming'.


plus they are really good friends in all respects except PvP and I don't just want to walk out on them.

As them each individually 'what the hell, dude?'


As you so eloquently stated in your topic title, this is a player problem, not a character problem. You solve these kinds of problems with the other players (including the DM), not with their characters.

Trueer words were never spoken.


Personally, I think teaching the players a lesson by shoving PvP back in their face is a devious idea. It will teach them a lesson and I love it.

The only "lesson" they'll learn is that they weren't powergaming HARD ENOUGH.

Jormengand
2013-07-06, 06:06 AM
Unless they're a spellcaster, all they can do is 5-foot step away. Attack of Opportunity.

They can't take a move action to move and a 5-foot step. If they could, it wouldn't provoke an AoO because that's the whole point of the 5ft step.

Madfellow
2013-07-06, 09:30 AM
Hmm, I'm concerned about the character's low Wisdom and penalties to search and spot. I mean, those scores are how you see danger coming, after all. Also, you might want to move a few more build points from Strength to Charisma, to power up your spells a bit more.

Other than that, I'd say this is a smashing build (please forgive the incredibly lame pun)! :smalltongue:

Jay R
2013-07-06, 11:48 AM
These people aren't playing with you. They're mining you.

The Grue
2013-07-07, 12:45 AM
I might have missed it because I only skimmed the thread, but why has talking to the players and asking them to stop been rejected as a viable solution?

Arbane
2013-07-07, 01:42 AM
I might have missed it because I only skimmed the thread, but why has talking to the players and asking them to stop been rejected as a viable solution?

Because that would require social interaction that doesn't involve rolling dice.

The Grue
2013-07-07, 01:56 AM
Right, of course. Why engage in discourse and conversation with other human beings when you can passive-aggressively rebuild an imaginary character to wipe the floor with their imaginary characters. That's definitely going to solve the issue and not precipitate an arms-race of powergaming minmaxing at all.

Giant in the Playground: Helping validate gamer stereotypes and escalate personal conflicts. Rock on, neckbeards.

Sith_Happens
2013-07-07, 02:39 AM
Hey, with all the "talk to them" advice we give on most of these threads, we have to cut loose sometimes.:smalltongue:

Jormengand
2013-07-07, 05:47 AM
I might have missed it because I only skimmed the thread, but why has talking to the players and asking them to stop been rejected as a viable solution?

Because the players need to be shown how annoying it is, not just told?

Septimus Faber
2013-07-07, 07:41 AM
This post is directed at everyone who says something along the lines of "why has talking to them been rejected as a viable solution?". Here is the answer: It has not. I think talking to them is the best solution. I just want to make that absolutely clear, right here, right now. I wish to precipitate no insults, personal or otherwise, directed at myself or others. This is a peaceful thread. Anyone who wishes to argue can stop posting right now, quite frankly. I am not some sort of roleplaying-obsessed idiot infatuated with the d20. I am merely discussing what might be the best in-game course of action to take if for some unforeseen reason "social interaction that doesn't require rolling dice", as Arbane so eloquently put it, doesn't work. I hope I have made that clear.

Rant mode off, thanks for the build feedback, guys.

Jay R
2013-07-07, 09:52 AM
I am merely discussing what might be the best in-game course of action to take if for some unforeseen reason "social interaction that doesn't require rolling dice", as Arbane so eloquently put it, doesn't work. I hope I have made that clear.

The best in-game action to take if they continue to keep you from playing is be be in another game.

1. Talk to them. Find out if it's possible for you to become one of the party.

2. If not, don't play with them, unless you enjoy playing the equivalent of this week's encounter.

Madfellow
2013-07-07, 10:01 AM
There are reasons other than PvP for trying to improve a build. D&D is primarily a cooperative game, and it's most fun when everyone can contribute equally. If his teammates can (and do) repeatedly kill of his characters, then trying to improve his characters will (a) discourage further team-killing and (b) help him improve his contribution to the party (always a noble goal, even if you're already satisfied with your build).

Septimus Faber
2013-07-07, 10:18 AM
If you dislike people getting mildly angry about their grievances, you might want to stop reading this post now. :smallbiggrin:

No? OK then.

I've realised over the last few days that it's as much a problem with the DM as with the players. Take this, for example.

I'm not going to quote myself, but earlier in the thread I mentioned that my Githzerai Monk/Sorcerer (ECL 4) had been killed by a spellcaster. Well, that encounter made me quite angry with the DM.

We'd just killed this strange sort of golem-like thing, when another monster, presumably some sort of construct (since it was a floating glass disc) came up to us and said that the golem had been its father so it was going to kill us. Don't ask me how a construct can have parents, I didn't get that either. So anyway, it killed me. Four "Scorching Rays". In one spell. Even if it didn't specifically state in the ruling that the number of rays is capped at 3, to pull off 4 at the same time it would have had to be a 15th-level caster, at least. A 15th level caster against an ECL 4 character with the HD of an ECL 2 character. How unfair is that? The DM's excuse was that it had "used up all of its life force" to create the spell, but surely it shouldn't be able to change the ruling.

AND all this was after I had actually succeeded on a Bluff check to convince it that I didn't kill the golem, and a Diplomacy check to improve its attitude! I succeeded on both checks, and it still killed me? Didn't even harm the other PCs by one hit point. When I complained to the DM about it afterwards, he said that it had been a child and I should have tried a Perform (comedy) check. Seriously? A Perform check in a battle situation? You never expect that sort of thing.

It probably doesn't help that the DM is one of only 2 players in our group who does not possess any of the Core books, or indeed any books at all.

OK, rage mode off. :smalltongue:

TheYell
2013-07-07, 10:53 AM
I don't know what you expect of us.

Everybody in the room kills you for loot, repeatedly, and you stand for that. You catch the DM cheating to kill you and you stand for that.

No, there is no powergaming strategy you can bring to the table if the DM feels free to cheat to kill you.

Unless you live on the tundra and there's no game stores or colleges anywhere near you, there's other games going on and you would probably have a good chance of meeting people who respect you.

Ceiling_Squid
2013-07-07, 01:27 PM
I don't know what you expect of us.

Everybody in the room kills you for loot, repeatedly, and you stand for that. You catch the DM cheating to kill you and you stand for that.

No, there is no powergaming strategy you can bring to the table if the DM feels free to cheat to kill you.

Unless you live on the tundra and there's no game stores or colleges anywhere near you, there's other games going on and you would probably have a good chance of meeting people who respect you.

This. Very much this.

Leave this game. There is nothing here for you. Just straight up tell these people that you are not enjoying the game, for the reasons outlined above, and get out.

I can't fathom putting up with this crap, and there is no in-game solution for a DM who is, quite frankly, terrible at his job. And I'm not talking about the fact that he doesn't know the rules. He's terrible at some basic tenets of being a game master. The most basic requirement of being a GM is to run a game that is enjoyable for the group as a whole. If he's failing utterly at this most basic requirement, don't play in his game.

I wouldn't play in any game run by someone like this guy, DnD or otherwise.

The Grue
2013-07-07, 06:23 PM
Because the players need to be shown how annoying it is, not just told?

That's a mature response to conflict.

EDIT: It is blue we're using for sarcastic text, right?

Scow2
2013-07-07, 07:00 PM
That's a mature response to conflict.

EDIT: It is blue we're using for sarcastic text, right?

Eh... sometimes people don't "get" something until they're shown, not just told. Saying something is bothering you has a chance of getting a "Suck it up" reaction. People tend to not understand until they're shown.

Arbane
2013-07-07, 07:26 PM
That's a mature response to conflict.

EDIT: It is blue we're using for sarcastic text, right?

I prefer magenta, personally.

"Never argue PvP with a fool munchkin. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." - Mark Twain, slightly updated.

The Grue
2013-07-07, 08:43 PM
Eh... sometimes people don't "get" something until they're shown, not just told. Saying something is bothering you has a chance of getting a "Suck it up" reaction. People tend to not understand until they're shown.

If, in response to being politely asked not to do something, you are met with the response "Suck it up", I would argue that this person has already decided they aren't going to accommodate you, and exacting eye-for-an-eye retribution is only going to escalate the situation.

"He did it first so it's okay if I do it back" is an elementary school playground response. I would like to think the denizens of this forum are a little bit more mature than second-graders.

Jay R
2013-07-07, 08:48 PM
Problem: This isn't fun.

Solution: Don't do it.

Really - that's the solution.

Go find a game of D&D. You don't have one now; you have a game of "Kill Septimus Fabrius". You can continue to play KSF with this group, or you can find another group to play D&D with.

Your choice.

The Grue
2013-07-07, 08:58 PM
Problem: This isn't fun.

Solution: Don't do it.

Really - that's the solution.

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"

"Well don't do that."

Arbane
2013-07-07, 09:23 PM
"He did it first so it's okay if I do it back" is an elementary school playground response. I would like to think the denizens of this forum are a little bit more mature than second-graders.

You did notice the name of this site, right? "Giant In The Playground"?

Kazemi
2013-07-07, 10:04 PM
If you dislike people getting mildly angry about their grievances, you might want to stop reading this post now. :smallbiggrin:

No? OK then.

I've realised over the last few days that it's as much a problem with the DM as with the players. Take this, for example.

I'm not going to quote myself, but earlier in the thread I mentioned that my Githzerai Monk/Sorcerer (ECL 4) had been killed by a spellcaster. Well, that encounter made me quite angry with the DM.

We'd just killed this strange sort of golem-like thing, when another monster, presumably some sort of construct (since it was a floating glass disc) came up to us and said that the golem had been its father so it was going to kill us. Don't ask me how a construct can have parents, I didn't get that either. So anyway, it killed me. Four "Scorching Rays". In one spell. Even if it didn't specifically state in the ruling that the number of rays is capped at 3, to pull off 4 at the same time it would have had to be a 15th-level caster, at least. A 15th level caster against an ECL 4 character with the HD of an ECL 2 character. How unfair is that? The DM's excuse was that it had "used up all of its life force" to create the spell, but surely it shouldn't be able to change the ruling.

AND all this was after I had actually succeeded on a Bluff check to convince it that I didn't kill the golem, and a Diplomacy check to improve its attitude! I succeeded on both checks, and it still killed me? Didn't even harm the other PCs by one hit point. When I complained to the DM about it afterwards, he said that it had been a child and I should have tried a Perform (comedy) check. Seriously? A Perform check in a battle situation? You never expect that sort of thing.

It probably doesn't help that the DM is one of only 2 players in our group who does not possess any of the Core books, or indeed any books at all.

OK, rage mode off. :smalltongue:

Oh, wow. Just....wow. I figured you were in trouble when the DM allowed them to loot your corpse more than once after they killed you. But if he's willing to Rule 0 you to death? Even if that spell were legal, that's still overly harsh to throw at an ECL4 character. :smalleek: The only reason I can think of that he would do that is not a good reason for a DM to have for any action.

With a DM like that, who needs BBEGs? :smallsigh: The players you could handle if the DM was on your side, but I'm not even sure your situation is salvageable. If talking with them for a few sessions doesn't improve things, I'd bail and find a different group.

Scow2
2013-07-07, 10:31 PM
If, in response to being politely asked not to do something, you are met with the response "Suck it up", I would argue that this person has already decided they aren't going to accommodate you, and exacting eye-for-an-eye retribution is only going to escalate the situation.

"He did it first so it's okay if I do it back" is an elementary school playground response. I would like to think the denizens of this forum are a little bit more mature than second-graders.

Sometimes, the mature response only results in a feeling of smug self-satisfaction. But, if you want to play with someone, you might have to respond to the immature with an immature route yourself, and it can be enough to work as a "wakeup call" to point out the problem.

They wouldn't say "Suck it up" - they might go along with the request, but resent you for encroaching on what they think is good fun, because they don't understand just how unfun it is to be in the situation. Everyone needs to compromise on their goals at least somewhat. Some compromises are seen as more unreasonable than others.

Verte
2013-07-07, 11:10 PM
Yeah... I die. A lot.
Also, my DM is very harsh about characters dying (we always have to come back one level lower, even when that puts us ridiculously far behind the others) and has a shaky - at best - grasp of the XP system. He just arbitrarily levels us up when he thinks we've decapitated enough monsters. And now he's saying that he'll only give XP to the players who actually kill things in an encounter rather than just wounding them.

But it's hard to stay, sometimes, when one of them keeps a friendly-fire tally. :)

Ok, this doesn't really make any sense - if your DM just arbitrarily levels characters up, then how does he keep track of which monsters are killed? And the bold bit, that is just *bleeped*. Seriously, I think there are a lot of people who would leave just for that. Also, my impression is that he's making you create your new characters a level lower than your old characters? I mean, none of your characters have been raised, right? If so, that is just not normal for 3.5.


If you dislike people getting mildly angry about their grievances, you might want to stop reading this post now. :smallbiggrin:

No? OK then.

I've realised over the last few days that it's as much a problem with the DM as with the players. Take this, for example.

I'm not going to quote myself, but earlier in the thread I mentioned that my Githzerai Monk/Sorcerer (ECL 4) had been killed by a spellcaster. Well, that encounter made me quite angry with the DM.

We'd just killed this strange sort of golem-like thing, when another monster, presumably some sort of construct (since it was a floating glass disc) came up to us and said that the golem had been its father so it was going to kill us. Don't ask me how a construct can have parents, I didn't get that either. So anyway, it killed me. Four "Scorching Rays". In one spell. Even if it didn't specifically state in the ruling that the number of rays is capped at 3, to pull off 4 at the same time it would have had to be a 15th-level caster, at least. A 15th level caster against an ECL 4 character with the HD of an ECL 2 character. How unfair is that? The DM's excuse was that it had "used up all of its life force" to create the spell, but surely it shouldn't be able to change the ruling.

AND all this was after I had actually succeeded on a Bluff check to convince it that I didn't kill the golem, and a Diplomacy check to improve its attitude! I succeeded on both checks, and it still killed me? Didn't even harm the other PCs by one hit point. When I complained to the DM about it afterwards, he said that it had been a child and I should have tried a Perform (comedy) check. Seriously? A Perform check in a battle situation? You never expect that sort of thing.

It probably doesn't help that the DM is one of only 2 players in our group who does not possess any of the Core books, or indeed any books at all.

OK, rage mode off. :smalltongue:

Yeah, that is some bad DMing right there. I'm tempted to say that they're just trying to get you to leave.


Sometimes, the mature response only results in a feeling of smug self-satisfaction. But, if you want to play with someone, you might have to respond to the immature with an immature route yourself, and it can be enough to work as a "wakeup call" to point out the problem.

They wouldn't say "Suck it up" - they might go along with the request, but resent you for encroaching on what they think is good fun, because they don't understand just how unfun it is to be in the situation. Everyone needs to compromise on their goals at least somewhat. Some compromises are seen as more unreasonable than others.

Ok, I'm inclined to agree with this, if only six months hadn't been spent on this. I mean, I would be tempted to come up with some monstrosity of a character, go after all of their characters, and explain exactly how obnoxious they've been afterwards. However, it seems like the DM probably wouldn't let that happen. I mean, does he arbitrarily kill any of the other characters?

NichG
2013-07-08, 12:06 AM
I think the really important thing here is to determine if this is ignorance or malice.

If this is just ignorance on the other players' parts, then talking to them and asking them to stop should work.

If its malice - if they are getting pleasure out of bullying you - then talking to them is just going to confirm to them that what they're doing is effective. In this case you're left with 'leave' or 'show them' kinds of solutions. So this sort of scenario is the exception to the usual 'talk it over OOC' advice I think.

If I were really invested in staying with the group and continuing to play in the campaign (e.g. if it were just one or two players doing this and the rest were fine) I'd probably instead talk to the DM privately and explain my problems with those players and basically ask him to ask them to stop it or leave. A DM who is trying to be a reasonable mediator might be torn about this, but they should generally realize that the abusive players are more destabilizing and harmful to the group than the victims. In your case though you also have a hostile DM, so this avenue isn't so good.

The last ditch attempt would be to make a Sea Urchin style character. Someone who isn't going to just kill them all in their sleep, but who will be really obnoxious in a PvP fight. A sunder-focused Vow of Poverty druid, for example, or a character whose entire WBL is invested in a scroll of disjunction. You're not trying to win if they attack you, you're trying to destroy more equipment than they salvage from you - basically, you want to make it clear that if they go after you they're going to hurt themselves and have nothing to show for it. But even for this character, I wouldn't initiate PvP - if they don't attack you, you just play as normal. Its basically the usual Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma strategy: cooperate until someone you play with defects, then always defect when playing with that person.

Mastikator
2013-07-08, 12:30 AM
Eh... sometimes people don't "get" something until they're shown, not just told. Saying something is bothering you has a chance of getting a "Suck it up" reaction. People tend to not understand until they're shown.

People only get what they want to get, and only when they want to get it. Think back to whenever you've showed evidence and people still believe what they want to believe, it's not a few being bull headed that disregard what they prefer not to believe, it's a few open minded to accept truths they don't want to.
The OP does not want to accept that he has bad friends and he's being bullied, and his "friends" don't want to get that what they're doing is unethical.
People would rather stick their face into the crap than accept that what they're sticking their head into isn't sand.

Ceaon
2013-07-08, 07:29 AM
People only get what they want to get, and only when they want to get it.

While an insightful sentiment, it is way too absolute to be true. If it were, it'd mean all people are unable to ever influence each other in any way other than a change that was already wanted anyway. Which I don't think is true.

I'd change it to "People agree with sentiments more easily if they like its conclusions than if they dislike them."

But, in its core, yeah, it's applicable here. OP, if it bothers you, you will have to act, and be prepared for some negative consequences, regardless of how you act. It seems there's a major conflict of interests going on.

Septimus Faber
2013-07-08, 12:08 PM
I'd just like to say "Thank you" to everyone who contributed to this thread, even those who got angry with other people. I think, given the heat of the discussion that this thread provoked, it would probably be best if it were sort of stopped here. Everyone has contributed at least one nugget of essential advice, you've all been really helpful, thank you so much.

SeptimusFabrius

Sith_Happens
2013-07-08, 04:29 PM
(Psst, if you need to vent, Trekkin's gaming-horror-stories blog is taking guest submissions.)

The Grue
2013-07-08, 08:51 PM
Does this blog have a URL?

Jbr208
2013-07-09, 12:09 AM
Does this blog have a URL?

Ask and ye shall receive. (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com)

Dyslexic Poet
2013-07-10, 04:26 AM
This happened to me in my first campaign. Except I only died four times. The final time involved half the party killing the other half and ended the game. It was probably a year later before we tried it again, with strict rules about pvp.

Nobody likes to die. I doubt killing any of your friends would solve the problem. One thing that did help was when I leveled up my disguise check, and another player got a manservant. My character was played ninja like, never visable, always in the bushes or following the party, while in fact I was the guy stuck doing all the sponge baths.

If the other players don't know where to find your character they can't kill him, so a disguise might work out great.

Oh, I also made a 2nd disguise based off of Zorro, so I could put on a black mask and cape and join in some fights... or run from my friends.

Sith_Happens
2013-07-10, 10:35 AM
Ask and ye shall receive. (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com)

Just don't link from there back to here, he's trying to stay on the down-low.