[3.5] Purely physical skills?

[Maginomicon]

Which 3.5 skills would you consider "purely physical"? That is, in fluff, they can't really be improved by "book-learning" alone, and instead you must take time to train those skills.

I was thinking Balance, Climb, Jump, Swim, and Tumble.

Are there more?

EDIT: By "purely physical" I mean "mostly non-mental". As in they rely on muscle memory and other physical parts of the body far more than the mental aspects of training.

[Urpriest]

Tumble is certainly not an example. There's as much technique in Tumble as there is in Open Lock.

Concentration seems like an example, as do most of the social skills.

[Big Fau]

Tumble is certainly not an example. There's as much technique in Tumble as there is in Open Lock.

Concentration seems like an example, as do most of the social skills.

The same can be said of Swim, Climb, and Jump. It takes not only training, but good coaching.

[Maginomicon]

Okay, I should clarify.

By "purely physical" I mean "mostly non-mental". As in they rely on muscle memory and other physical parts of the body far more than the mental aspects of training.

[Slipperychicken]

Okay, I should clarify.

By "purely physical" I mean "mostly non-mental". As in they rely on muscle memory and other physical parts of the body far more than the mental aspects of training.

Concentration, because it's all about having thick skin and resisting pain, and you need to train it (i.e. you can't just pick up "concentration for dummies" and suddenly be good at it).

I guess Iaijutsu Focus counts too? It's all about being fast and hitting people.

[Urpriest]

Okay, I should clarify.

By "purely physical" I mean "mostly non-mental". As in they rely on muscle memory and other physical parts of the body far more than the mental aspects of training.

So skills that rely heavily on muscle memory, specifically? I assume you're going for skills that shouldn't be transferable when you polymorph or the like?

Your choices probably work. Bluff as well, maybe but probably not Diplomacy. Perform (Act) and similar skills. Some of the Profession skills, possibly Craft skills as well. Escape Artist possibly, don't know enough about how it works in reality. Ride most likely. Definitely Move Silently, maybe also Hide. Most uses of Sleight of Hand. Maybe some uses of Use Rope.

[Maginomicon]

So skills that rely heavily on muscle memory, specifically? I assume you're going for skills that shouldn't be transferable when you polymorph or the like? Close. I'm more aiming for what skills should and should not transfer when you're (somehow, don't ask, as the how is not important) directly mind-controlling a creature.

[BowStreetRunner]

It would really depend on the technology level of the world involved. In an advanced civilization, almost any skill can be studied and analyzed to the point that academic research could develop techniques that are vastly superior to those relying on pure instinct and exercise. On the other hand, this sort of level of development is something that has only been possible for a very brief period of human history overall.

A case could be made to include all of the Strength, Dexterity and Constitution based skills except probaly open lock and use rope. In fact, some of the Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma based skills could also be argued to have more to do with intuition and practice than any sort of training that could be put in a book at an early stage of civilization - Search, Listen, Spot, Sense Motive, Bluff, and Intimidate might all fall in this category early on.

[ericgrau]

When you're directly mind controlling a creature, couldn't you even go as far as telling him to use his knowledge for something? I'd say all his skills are available, if requested.

If you mean possessing him with a mind switch or magic jar, then I'd say none of his skills are available. Not even jump. It's your technique in the jump.

[Mnemnosyne]

When you're directly mind controlling a creature, couldn't you even go as far as telling him to use his knowledge for something? I'd say all his skills are available, if requested.

If you mean possessing him with a mind switch or magic jar, then I'd say none of his skills are available. Not even jump. It's your technique in the jump.
I think his point is that your ranks in jump rely on your own physical training and not only pure knowledge, but an inherent understanding of the power and limits of your own body. If you're in someone else's body (or directly controlling someone else's body) you don't have that understanding as you haven't spent enough time in that body.

If I was inclined to impose penalties based on this, I would make it an acclimation period, and not a permanent penalty. The actual permanent physical difference between the bodies is reflected in the difference of the appropriate physical ability score. Anything else would be a matter of getting used to how the new body 'handles'. To that end, my list of things I would consider fall under this category would be:

Balance, Escape Artist*, Iaijutsu Focus, Jump, and Tumble.

Some skills may also have specific uses that I would consider fall under this, but not all the time:

Climb, when used to catch oneself from a fall, or when making an accelerated climbing or rapid climbing check to move particularly fast.
Concentration, when used to prevent spell interruption because of physical damage.
Swim, when used in a situation with a DC of 16 or higher.

*I'm not totally sure which category to put Escape Artist in, but I am aware that it often requires maneuvers like dislocating one's own shoulder and other similar tricks, many of which can be highly dependent on training one's body to perform them without damage. However, I have no personal experience with such matters and am unsure how much knowledge would carry over from one body to the next.

[Seharvepernfan]

I'm a pretty good jumper, and I would bet anything that if you put some random nerd in my body, he wouldn't be able to jump as well as me. As a DM, I'd say he'd get to use half of my ranks, and call it a day (that goes for all the "purely physical" skills).