Character stereotypes and what to do with them

[hymer]

So there are stereotypes... The flighty bard, the hard-drinking dwarf, the mad scientist/necromancer and so on. They're not all bad, of course, at least if used in moderation. So tell me some of the stereotypes you most enjoy or avoid, and maybe tell us how you (would like to) subvert a stereotype.

I'll go first, I guess: The temperamental, fightloving (stoopid) barbarian. I'd like to, one time, play that kind of character as a charismatic philosopher and orator of Ancient Greek inspiration, who prefers his violence in disciplined order and seldomly used - but who has the capacity to blow a gasket when things turn bad.

[Barsoom]

After years of fighting stereotypes, I have actually come to love them, and embrace them somewhat. The reason these things are stereotypical is because they evoke simple, vivid images. In other words, they work.

[Herabec]

My favorite? The snobbish elf and the hard-drinking dwarf.

Mostly because, as DM, I can do terrible, terrible things to those stereotypes...

Like killing the dwarf with alcohol poisoning when he tells me just how much he's drinking. Even after I warn him that, even with his poison resistance, drinking three gallons of whiskey would kill him.

Ahhh..fun times.

[Elderand]

Everything is a stereotype.

Fighting the stereotype is a stereotype in itself.

You cannot escape them !

[BowStreetRunner]

I think some of the key stereotypes have already been countered frequently enough that the opposite has almost become a stereotype in its own right. As common as the wise and experienced elderly wizard has been used, there are plenty of foolish and inexperienced young wizards around too.

[Deathkeeper]

For some reason I do love the "reverse stereotype" stereotypes. The Minotaur that's a soft-spoken engineer. The harmless werewolf librarian. The eloquent dwarf fighter. Stuff like that.

[dascarletm]

The only way to avoid stereotypes is to be just a normal person/thing, but who wants to do that?:smallconfused:

"Us dwarves drink a moderate amount, mine on-occasion, and only some of us grow beards."
"Pssh, typical dwarf, being so... normal."
:smalltongue:

[NeoPhoenix0]

The only way to avoid stereotypes is to be just a normal person/thing, but who wants to do that?:smallconfused:

"Us dwarves drink a moderate amount, mine on-occasion, and only some of us grow beards."
"Pssh, typical dwarf, being so... normal."
:smalltongue:

Not true, being a person who just happens to be a(n) [insert class/race/etc here] has become a stereotype also. so you are always a stereotype.

[ArqArturo]

Everything is a stereotype.

Fighting the stereotype is a stereotype in itself.

You cannot escape them !

You mean to tell me that Brienne of Tarth is a stereotype?.

[Deophaun]

There's a difference between stereotypes and tropes.

A stereotype is the first image you get upon hearing that someone is dwarf, devoid of any additional information. So, a hard-drinking, hard fighting bearded stout guy.

A trope, meanwhile, is a common, repeated confluence of multiple aspects. A dwarven thief is a trope; it's actually a common archetype. However, if I said "Dwarf," the words "thief" or "rogue" are unlikely to fit your first mental image, and vice versa, so it wouldn't be a stereotype.

All stereotypes are tropes. Not all tropes are stereotypes.

[angry_bear]

...I've always wanted to play a true neutral drow. It seems that with that race in particular, players almost always take it to the one extreme, or the other. I'd like to take it to the middle. :smallsmile:

[Elderand]

You mean to tell me that Brienne of Tarth is a stereotype?.

Action girl who try to prove she is as good as men when it comes to fighting ? Yes, yes it's a stereotype. For exemple, Eowyn in the lord of the rings.

[hymer]

...I've always wanted to play a true neutral drow.

I love that!

[Jeff the Green]

I think the word you're looking for is 'archetype.' Stereotype means you assume all x's are y. So all elves love nature, all dwarves love beer, etc.

I like the librarian archetype, whether a cleric, wizard, archivist, or something else. Also the trickster, the tragic knight (e.g. Sir Lancelot, King Arthur, Sir Gawain), and the recluse with a secret (e.g. Beorn from The Hobbit).

I hate nature worshippers, berserkers, and the-fools-I'll-show-them mad scientists. The first two are lazy stereotypes of complex real-life cultures and the last is so overdone it's boring.

[angry_bear]

Action girl who try to prove she is as good as men when it comes to fighting ? Yes, yes it's a stereotype. For exemple, Eowyn in the lord of the rings.

Brienne of Tarth is over 6 feet tall, and probably weighs about 220+. Eowyn is your typical girly girl action/fantasy movie star who somehow beats the physically larger, and stronger opponents she squares off against while fighting them on their terms. Brienne of Tarth does fit the trope, but she's one of the few cases where I actually buy it as well.

[JaronK]

I actually have a lot of fun with archetypes. I'm currently in a pure archetype game... a drunken dwarf (he wields a Dwarvencraft Dwarf War Axe and shield along with heavy armor, and has three levels of Dwarf Paragon), a dragony Kobold (Dragonwrought Dragonborn Kobold Sorcerer with all dragon themed spells), and an elven archer with an elvencraft bow and elven leafweave armor named Moonflower.

We're adventuring together because of a drunken bet to see who was better, dwarves or dragons. The elf seems to think he's part of the bet. Neither the dwarf nor the kobold are even considering that one.

JaronK

[ArqArturo]

I love that!

Maybe Ranger, since most drow are rogues, but a ranger would bteak the mold.

[QuintonBeck]

I like having Pallys who are social jerks and control freaks. It's kinda tropey because of the stick up the you-know-where rep Pallys have but it also breaks the mold of the pure and righteous white knight treating everyone right.

I also had some fun with a barbarian who followed the "Big Dumb Fighter" trope but who's ultimate goal was to settle down on a farm (every time he tried he scared the animals you see) and fighting was just something to pay the bills, he wasn't that into it. So again, half the trope, big and dumb, with the twist that he doesn't care for fighting.

Basically I like to mix tropes with counter tropes and put spins on the stereotypical. Sure, nothing new under the sun, but mixing and matching can at least keep things fresh.

Also, I'd be wary of accusations of Drizzt cloning if I made a Drow Ranger. A Drow Druid with focus on subterranean creatures (possibly bugs?) now that would be a spin.

[137beth]

So in a pbp game right now, I have a character who is overly devoted to duty, hyper lawful yada yada samurai/paladin stereotype--
except that he is a sorcerer, and his highest and most-used skill is bluff, and an extreme pragmatist. Yes, all of that comes from his back-story. It occasionally gets tiring of seeing 298345723 characters which all exactly reverse the expected stereotypes, so I prefer to either ignore them or combine them in unusual ways (actually, I didn't base this character around avoiding/using any stereotypes, they just came out of the back-story).
EDIT: Oh, and he is a TN drow--nice, as most drow seem to be either Good or Evil.

[Randomguy]

...I've always wanted to play a true neutral drow. It seems that with that race in particular, players almost always take it to the one extreme, or the other. I'd like to take it to the middle. :smallsmile:

In a similar vein, I think it would be fun to play a LN mind flayer who is still very true to his culture and still eats brains, but not unduly cruel or plotting to take over the world.

[Averis Vol]

In one of the games I'm in, I play a barbarian who speaks with philosophical reference and speaks both calmly and eloquently for someone who cannot read. He's a rather happy guy, and as a father he has a soft spot for children in need. Which was unfortunate when he found the pirate captain they were after with a cutlass to an abducted child's throat......

Another one is an incredibly devout follower of pelor and a doctor. He can't lie to save his life and he would normally prefer to keep his nose in a book to learn something new. He's a rogue/factotum and a complete know it all. When forced to fight he keeps a relic from his family back in their ruins (post apocalyptic game), a great crossbow.

So I generally try to bend away from stereotypes because they are boring normally, though if I do end up using one it is the overly righteous paladin.

[angry_bear]

I think I'd have to make the drow a barbarian or a druid... I think I'd go martial with it; haven't played a pure melee class in a while. Maybe start with two levels of fighter for the dungeon crash variant before going into barbarian. :smallamused:

[Novawurmson]

Necromancers/undead. Love 'em. On the other hand, I love druids and nature-worshipers. "Warrior" cultures (Spartans, hobgoblins) are great.


I hate nature worshippers, berserkers, and the-fools-I'll-show-them mad scientists. The first two are lazy stereotypes of complex real-life cultures and the last is so overdone it's boring.

:smalleek:

B-but...but... that's one of my all-time favorite archetypes. It's probably even the best archetype! I'll show you how "overdone" this trope is! I'LL SHOW YOU! I'LL SHOW YOU ALL!

::lightning, mad laughter::

I do really love mad scientists.

[angry_bear]

In a similar vein, I think it would be fun to play a LN mind flayer who is still very true to his culture and still eats brains, but not unduly cruel or plotting to take over the world.

See, I'm curious as to whether or not a mind flayer is capable of being lawful good with the express purpose of trying to better understand "good" alignments. Like, still does the typical mind flayer things, eats brains, and destroys the minds of it's enemies; but with... I dunno, loftier, and yet still selfish goals?

If nothing else, it would make for an interesting NPC... lol

[TuggyNE]

See, I'm curious as to whether or not a mind flayer is capable of being lawful good with the express purpose of trying to better understand "good" alignments. Like, still does the typical mind flayer things, eats brains, and destroys the minds of it's enemies; but with... I dunno, loftier, and yet still selfish goals?

That's not a good alignment, although the flayer might delude itself into thinking so. You can't really harvest intelligent creatures for psychic nourishment and retain Good alignment, I'm afraid. (If you rejiggered things so it could do without that, like a thread a few months back, you could manage it, but it would be non-trivial.)

[ericgrau]

al, fightloving (stoopid) barbarian. I'd like to, one time, play that kind of character as a charismatic philosopher and orator of Ancient Greek inspiration, who prefers his violence in disciplined order and seldomly used - but who has the capacity to blow a gasket when things turn bad.
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr231/zacesilverblade/8-bit/Berserker.png?
In case you do not read 8 bit theater and are struggling with the art that is a monocle. And he is a berserker.

I've mentioned him before but my most stereotype breaking character was a lawful good half-illithid paladin of C'thulhu. An overused phylactery of faithfulness (at will: "Does this break my alignment?") helped him seek dark knowledge without committing wrong.

[ArqArturo]

That could be interesting. Now, didn't the BoED had a good mindflayer monk as an example of a redeemed villain?.

[ArcturusV]

Stereotypes? I tend to try to avoid them. Not only because it's lazy.

"I'm a dwarf... who drinks... and hates elves and gobbos... and I like mines.... and I want shinies?"

But also because when you say you ARE playing up to type, you tend to get two results. The more common I find is people ignore your character and you become your race/role. "Oh, it's a stone temple, ask the dwarf about it, they know about rocks, right? Probably find some rocky rock thing". Or "Oh, it's the Cleric, just buff us and heal us and stay out of our way".

The other, minor problem I've had with it, is that often it becomes an Optimization thing and players just can't get their heads around it otherwise. Dwarf, Sorcerer? But they have a penalty to Charisma! No dwarf would be a sorcerer! I just feel like my games are less rich when every ____ they run into is a _____ because that's clearly the best choice (Or one of the best) for them.

So I try to avoid it. There's Wizards of every race, even Half-Orcs. There's Druids who aren't hippies, and use nature for personal gain and evil, etc, etc, etc. Least I try to do that as I go setting crafting.

As a player, archetypes I enjoy? I like the systemic domination fighter archetype. Something that's harder to do in 3rd, of course. But kinda fun. This is the guy who doesn't just cleave you in half, but he leaves you broken and thoroughly (And often slowly) defeated. So he has Disarms, Sunders, Trips, ways to inflict statuses like Dazed, Stunned, etc. Sadly most groups get tired of that sort of thing. So I often get those "Oh just hit him already!" sort of comments as they are unhappy I blinded that enemy instead of dealing HP damage.

I always liked the Trickster Mage too. Sure, I have magic... but why use Magic when I don't have to? No Transmutation when I can just disguise/act. No prestidigitation when I can Sleight of Hand. Charm person? Nah, I can lie with the best of them. Then I use the magic to back up my otherwise mundane talents. And of course, heavens forbid the DM gets the usual desire to strip us down for a session and make us paupers without magic, etc, I can still get myself out of a jam.

... as long as they don't declare that no one eats soup with a spoon.

[ericgrau]

Now that I think about it, there was my elf fighter wizard archer. "So... you're an elf", another player says. He's named Silvanius, wears green and brown woodsy tones. "Oh God you're an elf." He thinks elves are the greatest race, and carries a bajillion magic items. "..."

[TripleD]

Not exactly a stereotype per se, but I try to avoid falling into fantasy sex and gender tropes in my games.

For example, in the campaign I'm running right now my players are gathering supplies in a dusty, badlands town. I had the sheriff recommend camels for transportation, and that they could buy them by the south gate where "Ettan, the stable master, lives with his husband". No soapboxing, just every once in a while I weave it into the background as something that's normal for this world.

[Sutremaine]

The other, minor problem I've had with it, is that often it becomes an Optimization thing and players just can't get their heads around it otherwise. Dwarf, Sorcerer? But they have a penalty to Charisma! No dwarf would be a sorcerer!
That's human-centrism for you. As far as dwarves are concerned, humans have +2 Cha and -2 Con. No human would be a melee frontliner with that Con penalty!