The old albino Dragon trick

[tim01300]

I read a dragonlance short story that had a knight kill a albino silver dragon because he thought it was a white dragon. Then was stuck with the dragon's newborn. So I am looking for input on two aspects. The CR of the dragon and the newborn.

3.5 core rules
I am DM for a group of lvl 8 characters. A gnome wizard, half orc barb, dwarf cleric and half elf druid. All fairly new players. Can you guys help me weaken a adult dragon down to make a fun fight for them? I am ok with the dragon being maimed or crippled because I can say that it happened from other dragons hating albinos.

Secondly, from what I've read in the Draconomicon, having a dragon egg or raising a wyrmling is pretty hard and basically not very helpful. But I still think it would be a fun aspect to roll play. Should I give them an egg and make them wait? Or have there be a wyrmling? If I understand it correctly, it takes 6 years for the dragons to advance to Very Young, so it won't be much good for combat.

[Slipperychicken]

I read a dragonlance short story that had a knight kill a albino silver dragon because he thought it was a white dragon.

What? All it has to do to prove otherwise is use its poison gas breath weapon, then maybe hold up under a Detect spell.

[dascarletm]

For having a little dragon with them, you got to respect the fact that you probably won't see it past juvenile (if they are human, maybe adult if they are an Elf). That being said, if you want it to age up as they level, put in copious downtime that is handwaved.

After an adventure you set up multiple long term projects for everyone. Have them describe how they do these things over the course of the next 10 or so years, and advance them all a level and the dragon an age category. Have them all meet-up next session either seeing eachother for the first time since they adventured, or maybe a few kept in close contact in that time-span. Similar things have been done in various stories/shows/movies.

EDIT:

What? All it has to do to prove otherwise is use its poison gas breath weapon, then maybe hold up under a Detect spell.

low Knowledge (Arcana)

[Deathkeeper]

What? All it has to do to prove otherwise is use its poison gas breath weapon, then maybe hold up under a Detect spell.

Last time I checked Whites and Silver both have cold breath.

[Doxkid]

What? All it has to do to prove otherwise is use its poison gas breath weapon, then maybe hold up under a Detect spell.

Or talk. White dragons are basically idiots.

The dragon saying "What in Bahamuts name are you doing in my lands?" instead of "TIAMAT EAT YOU GOOD!" should make it kind of obvious.

[dascarletm]

Or talk. White dragons are basically idiots.

The dragon saying "What in Bahamuts name are you doing in my lands?" instead of "TIAMAT EAT YOU GOOD!" should make it kind of obvious.

He was probably an ubercharger build who won initiative, and got a surprise round.:smallcool:

[Flickerdart]

A albino Silver dragon would look nothing like a White - White dragons are bluish with ridges, whereas Silvers have a weird mohawk thing. They also don't live in the same places (temperate zones VS cold zones - this is hundreds if not thousands of miles apart). Silvers are explicitly nonviolent and use fog to disorient their enemies first, while Whites are aggressive hunters that open with their breath weapon.

Basically, this knight was an idiot, and unless you expect your PCs to be similarly dumb, I would not recommend trying to trick them with this.

[dascarletm]

A albino Silver dragon would look nothing like a White - White dragons are bluish with ridges, whereas Silvers have a weird mohawk thing. They also don't live in the same places (temperate zones VS cold zones - this is hundreds if not thousands of miles apart). Silvers are explicitly nonviolent and use fog to disorient their enemies first, while Whites are aggressive hunters that open with their breath weapon.

Basically, this knight was an idiot, and unless you expect your PCs to be similarly dumb, I would not recommend trying to trick them with this.

However, the MM is not available to the characters along with its descriptions and nice pictures. If no-one has Knowledge (Arcana), or if they do and blow their check, they wouldn't necessarily know these details we take for granted.

[Pesimismrocks]

A albino Silver dragon would look nothing like a White - White dragons are bluish with ridges, whereas Silvers have a weird mohawk thing. They also don't live in the same places (temperate zones VS cold zones - this is hundreds if not thousands of miles apart). Silvers are explicitly nonviolent and use fog to disorient their enemies first, while Whites are aggressive hunters that open with their breath weapon.

Basically, this knight was an idiot, and unless you expect your PCs to be similarly dumb, I would not recommend trying to trick them with this.
Actually the colour thing would probably be quite a high arcana check. Knowing the difference could be difficult for those IC pcs who don't own the monster manual for the useful pictures and information. PCs who haven't seen dragons before generally don't know this.

Aside fro this I have to agree with you. Unless your PCs are all killing machines who kill before the dragon try's to calm them down, and who have negative ranks in knowledge arcana, the dragons type will soon become clear

Edit: Swordsaged

[Jeff the Green]

Actually the colour thing would probably be quite a high arcana check. Knowing the difference could be difficult for those IC pcs who don't own the monster manual for the useful pictures and information. PCs who haven't seen dragons before generally don't know this.

I doubt it. Color is how untrained people identify dragons. If you can make the check to identify it (10+HD, or at least 29 for a young adult), you definitely know about the differences in claws, horns, sails, etc.

Actually, Knowledge checks to ID dragons are ludicrously difficult.

[Slipperychicken]

Last time I checked Whites and Silver both have cold breath.

This is true, although Silvers in 3.5 have paralyzing gas in addition to cold.

[dascarletm]

I doubt it. Color is how untrained people identify dragons. If you can make the check to identify it (10+HD, or at least 29 for a young adult), you definitely know about the differences in claws, horns, sails, etc.

Actually, Knowledge checks to ID dragons are ludicrously difficult.

Look, the wizard that we met told us metal colored ones are good and regular colored ones are evil. He said some other stuff about shapes and stuff... too technical for me. I see a white one over the hill, lets kill it quick before it eats us.

[Slipperychicken]

Look, the wizard that we met told us metal colored ones are good and regular colored ones are evil. He said some other stuff about shapes and stuff... too technical for me. I see a white one over the hill, lets kill it quick before it eats us.

"Wiz said to kill a white dragon. I killed a white dragon. I'm a sellsword, not an encyclopedia."

[tim01300]

I'm sorry I guess I should have given a few more details. In the setting we are running dragons have been absent for thousands of years and have only recently returned. So I've been making knowledge on them a little difficult. So they have only a rudimentary knowledge of dragons, the real basics. Also there have been no good dragons at all so far.

As for the dragon talking, I was hoping to play it as very ill-tempered from its years of abuse and loneliness. So it's going to be more like "Get outa here" instead of "No I'm a good guy!".

On top of that the players have very much just run in stab stab stab, ask questions later. If this plays out the way everything else has, maybe this will stick with them next time. I'm not 100% how many clues I am going to give them that it's a silver. I plan to mention its scales being a dull white, pink eyes. I plan to use the paralyzing breath as another clue something is up and allow for more knowledge checks as they figure stuff out.

They are going to be asked by locals who have seen the dragon flying around their village to kill a "white" dragon. So maybe if they investigate before just swinging they could make a potentially powerful friend.



But all the replies are very helpful so far!

[dascarletm]

"Wiz said to kill a white dragon. I killed a white dragon. I'm a sellsword, not an encyclopedia."

Damn it Jim, I'm an Ubercharger not a monster guide!

[Agent 451]

Basically, this knight was an idiot
Well, yeah, he's a knight...

[Elderand]

Everyone seems to forget it's a dragonlance novel, in the dragonlance setting white dragon and silver dragon look very much alike.

And white dragon of adult or older age are at least as smart as an average human, they are hardly at "hulk smash" cognizant level when they are old enough to reproduce and have youngs.

[Invader]

I saw an albino polar bear once...

[almightycoma]

Secondly, from what I've read in the Draconomicon, having a dragon egg or raising a wyrmling is pretty hard and basically not very helpful. But I still think it would be a fun aspect to roll play. Should I give them an egg and make them wait? Or have there be a wyrmling? If I understand it correctly, it takes 6 years for the dragons to advance to Very Young, so it won't be much good for combat.
I would never give my PCs a dragon egg they would just sell it or use it as a component or something. Even if your group wouldn't do that, how are they going to know how to hatch it? I'd go with the wyrmling. it moves on its own and they can teach it common.that's much easier to deal with in my opinion.

About it being helpful part your party wizard can take a feat to make it his familiar so thats something.

[Slipperychicken]

About it being helpful part your party wizard can take a feat to make it his familiar so thats something.

Take Leadership. That'll let you advance it with class levels.

[The Grue]

Given the importance of a dragon's coloration, I think "albino-coloured silver mistaken for white" is no less cheap a trick than "bronze dragon with a sunburn mistaken for red".

[Spuddles]

I think its a cool idea. At least one of your players is going to like raising a dragon. Best case scenario- party mascot.

Make sure when they finde the wyrmling, it's silver and kind of curious/playful, then really sad that momma's dead.

Mechanical side of things:
Loredrake, from dragons of eberron gives a dragon +2 sorcerer spellcasting levels if it already has spell casting

Dragon cohort lets you pick up a dragon as a cohort with -2 LA.

Since the wyrmling will be raised by player characters, have it advance as one.

[TripleD]

As for powering down the adult dragon, in real life albinism is linked to poor eyesight. You could have your player characters be treated as having partial cover at all times for the purpose of attack rolls.

[ericgrau]

For all the monsters that aren't color coded, PCs tend to kill them on sight without checking motive or alignment. I wouldn't be surprised if the dragon dies without a second thought. If they do figure it out, kudos to them, plot changed. Plan it both ways.

Though now that I think about it all monsters, good or evil, should engage in a lot more chit chat than they do. And this one in particular might know his scales are not shiny, might have dealt with mistaken identity before and, well, tend to bring it up a lot to dissolve confusion.

[Mutazoia]

Damn it Jim, I'm an Ubercharger not a monster guide!

"Damn it Jim, I'm a Doctor, not a floor wax!"

It's the new and improved Dr. McCoy! He's a Doctor AND a floor wax!

"He's dead, Jim, but look at that shine!"

[Slipperychicken]

Though now that I think about it all monsters, good or evil, should engage in a lot more chit chat than they do.

Depends on whether you actually want to talk to the monster, realize it's a person like you with family, fears, goals, and aspirations (everything that makes you human), then you feel awful about killing it.


Not to mention that once you get into mid-to-high CRs, the monsters are actually smarter than you most of the time (i.e. WotC throws around mental scores 14-20 like it's candy on Halloween without considering the consequences of entire civilizations of 30HD fullcasting geniuses).