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Person_Man
2006-12-07, 03:15 PM
OK, so this has apparently become a reference thread for a bunch of different people. So I'll try my best to keep it updated on a regular basis. It grew out of this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28464&highlight=natural+attacks) about Monks and Natural Attacks.

Basically, if you have a secondary natural attack, you can use it as part of a full attack at -5, IN ADDITION TO your primary attack routine. You can reduce it to -2 if you can qualify for and take the Multiattack feat, or -0 if you can then take the Improved Multiattack feat (Draconomicon, Savage Species).

However, its important to note that the controlling factor over whether or not you can use a natural attack as a secondary attack in addition to your normal attack routine is the wording of its source, and not any consistant or logical rule. A Lizardfolk has 2 claws and a bite. A Werebear has 2 claws and a bite. But a Lizardfolk using a sword only gets a secondary bite attack when it uses a weapon, whereas the Werebear gets the bite, a claw, and the weapon. I know that it makes no sense. That's just the way its written.

While the damage from natural attacks are typically quite low, they can be combined with Power Attack, Leap Attack+Pounce, and Touch of Golden Ice (Book of Exhalted Deeds, evil creatures must Save or be ravaged by 1d4 Dex damage).

Natural attacks also qualify for Sneak Attack (when all other normal conditions are met) and Weapon Finesse, making it an attractive option for Rogue builds who are willing to risk their necks on the front line of combat (which I wouldn't suggest).

So, the goal of this thread is to compile as many usable and useful secondary natural attacks as possible, from any source. Templates, races, magic, feats, grafts, psionics, whatever.


So, here's my current list:

Feats

Deepspawn: 2 tentacle attacks from your waist. Requires Aberration Blood, one other aberrant feat. Lords of Madness.

Deformity (teeth): Bite attack. Deformities have a feat pre-req of Willing Deformity and Evil alignment. Heroes of Horror.

Deformity (clawed hands): Ambiguously worded claws. Book of Vile Darkness.

Draconic Tail: Kobold only, 1st level only, gives you a tail attack. Races of the Dragon.

Illithid Grapple: Each feat buys you one tentacle attack which can be used as a primary or secondary attack. You can take this up to four times, which also gains you a mind eating ability. Requires Illithid Heritage and one other illithid feat. Complete Psionic.

Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike: Allows extra natural attacks. Very poorly worded and limited to certain creature types, so check with your DM. Draconomicon.

Powers/Spells/Items

Arms of Plenty: 2 extra clawed hands. Lords of Madness.

Bite of the Wolf (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPowersAtoC.html#bite-of-the-wolf): Manifest a primary or secondary bite attack. Psionic Power.

Bite of the Were-whatever: Variety of spells (werewolf, wererat, werebear) that grant a bite and/or claw attacks, and nifty stat bonuses. Spell Compendium.

Charge of the Triceratops: Grow a primary or secondary gore attack. Spell Compendium.

Claws of the Beast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/clawsofthebeast.htm): Claws with damage that scale with size and manifester level. Google the "King of Smack" and you'll see how easily it can be abused. The one down side is that Claws of the Beast explicitly cannot be combined with other attacks.

Evard's Menacing Tentacle's: 2 tentacles grow from shoulders. PHB II.

Extend Tentacles: +5 ft. reach to all tentacles. Spell Compendium.

Fearsome Grapple: Grow 4 tentacles that can only be used for grappling. Spell Compendium.

Flaying Tendrils: Grow 4 mind flayer tentacles. Complete Mage.

Form of Doom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm): Adds 4 tentacle attacks.

Girallon's Blessing: Grow 2 extra arms. Spell Compendium.

Gutsnake: Grow a snake tentacle. Spell Compendium.

Spare Hand: Extra arm that can only hold things. Magic of Eberron.

Classes

Animal Lord: Varies. Complete Adventurer.

Demonbinder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070430a&page=3): Marilith form gives you 2 extra arms.

Dragon Disciple (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/dragonDisciple.html): 2 levels get you a primary bite and 2 secondary claw attacks.

Fang of Lolth (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207): Bite and extra limbs. Also provides Sneak Attack and other goodies. Unfortunately, it's 3.0 material. Song and Silence.

Master of Masks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=3): Claws that count as magical for DR. Complete Scoundrel.

Master Transmogrifist: 10 levels allow you to add one form's natural attacks to anotherís. All sorts of polymorph abuse is already possible, which should be avoided.

Totemist: Aparrently one of the best ways to add natural attacks, assuming you use Incarnum.

Warshaper: Can grow extra natural attacks. Open to a lot of abuse, so talk to your DM. Complete Warrior.

Wildrunner: 2 levels gets you a secondary bite attack. Races of the Wild.

Races/Templates

Darfellan (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050805a&page=2): Natural bite. +0 LA. Stormwrack.

Draconic Template: Claws. Races of the Dragon. +1 LA.

Entomanothrope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a): Varied natural attacks from base vermin. +2 LA.

Feral: 2 claw attacks, Rake, and Rend. +1 LA. Savage Species.

Half-Dragon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a): Primary or secondary claws according to the SRD, and secondary bite. +2 LA if you just want the natural attacks, +3 for full Half-Dragon-hood.

Half-Far Spawn: 2 tentacles. +4 LA. Lords of Madness.

Half-Fiend (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a): Primary or secondary claws according to the SRD, and secondary bite. +1 LA for claws, +2 for claws and bite, +4 for full Half-Fiend-hood.

Kobold variant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a): 2 primary claws and 1 secondary bite.

Lich (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a): Secondary paralyzing touch attack. +1 LA for touch attack, that improves the attack with template progression. +4 LA for full Lich-dom.

Minotaur (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030202): Gore. 1 level of the Minotaur monster class to get the gore attack, which improves as you progress in that class, up to level 7.

Multiheaded: Scales with HD. Notable for being one of the few ways to get multiple bite attacks. +2 LA. Savage Species.

Shifters: Varies. +0 LA. Races of Eberron.

Thri-Kreen. 4 arms and bite. Expanded Psionics Handbook. +2 LA plus 2 monstrous humanoid hit dice.

Voidmind: 1 tentacle from head. +3 LA. Monster Manual 3.

Werebear (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031114a): Looking at the MM and SRD, it seems as if the Werebear, like a Half-Dragon or Half-Fiend, has primary or secondary claw attacks and a secondary bite, even though other Were creatures can only use their claws as primary attacks. Wierd. All were-creatures are +2/+3 (infected/natural) LA plus animal hit dice, with the option of wierd template class progression.

Wereboar or Dire Wearboar (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a): Primary claw and secondary gore attack.

Wererat (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a): Secondary bite with disease.

Weretiger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a): 2 primary claws and secondary bite.

Werewolf (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a): 2 primary claws and secondary bite.

Xill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/xill.htm): 4 claws, multiple arms, and Improved Grab. Sadly, they have 5 Outsider HD and +4 LA.

Please post any other natural attacks you can think of, and cite their source and links when possible.

Also feel free to post your natural attack oriented builds and combo's, or to just complain and argue about how poorly the rules for this are written.

Thanks.

BCOVertigo
2006-12-07, 11:07 PM
Have you looked at Warshaper from Complete Warrior?

Unless I missed something (logic dictates I did) they can take a move action to grow a new natural attack (a tentacle for example). There doesn't seem to be a limit to how many times this can be done.

deadseashoals
2006-12-08, 12:20 AM
Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike from Draconomicon, if you can get one of the requisite types and a pair of natural weapons.

Grim Greyscale
2006-12-08, 12:22 AM
Half-Dragon and Dragon Disciple don't work together. One or the other, take your pick. Also, the lycanthropes can only be in one form at once. So having more than one is pointless. And, though I can't actually find it anywhere in the rules, I'm fairly sure you can't get 5 billion claw attacks by taking all these templates, you should only be affected by the most powerful one.

AtomicKitKat
2006-12-08, 01:43 AM
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=706353

Person_Man
2006-12-08, 09:56 AM
Have you looked at Warshaper from Complete Warrior?

Unless I missed something (logic dictates I did) they can take a move action to grow a new natural attack (a tentacle for example). There doesn't seem to be a limit to how many times this can be done.

You are technically correct. But most DMs won't let you just grow 10 natural attacks because you take one level of Warshaper. You generally have to earn them by taking the appropriate feats/templates/whatever, or wildshape into a form that naturally has them.

It's a great class to take though for any build with a lot of natural attacks, as it increases your size catagory for those attacks by one step.


Grim Greyscale, I know you can't combine a lot of these. It's just a list of all the possible sources of natural attacks, not a specific optimized build.

AtomicKitKat, thanks for the link.

Henshin_Fanatic
2007-03-26, 10:45 AM
You forgot Form of Doom which adds 4 tentacle attacks, among other benefits.

Fax Celestis
2007-03-26, 11:06 AM
I would suggest dipping into Incarnum. Eleven levels of Totemist and the right binds will net you an additional set of arms (Girallon Arms to Hands/Totem), a Unicorn Horn (Unicorn Horn to Brow/Totem), the ability to full attack with natural weapons after a charge (Sphinx Claws to Arms), and +1d4 to +4d4 (depending on essentia investiture) to all attacks at the end of a charge (Thunderstep Boots unbound).

And since a monk's unarmed strike is considered a natural attack, you can flurry at the end of a charge with it too.

So a Totemist 11/Monk 9 with the above and Imp. Natural Attack has an attack pattern that looks like:

+14/+14/+9/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14 with a potion of Girallon's Blessing. (Flurry, six claws, gore; +2 to hit and +4d4 to damage while charging)

A Thri-Kreen 2/Totemist 11/Monk 7 with the above and LA buyoff has an attack pattern that looks like (with Girallon's Blessing):

+14/+14/+9/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14. (flurry, 8 claws, bite, and gore; +2 to hit and +4d4 to damage while charging).

Toss in some Vow of Poverty while you're at it for some extra doom.

EDIT: If you're up for it, grab Snap Kick for a -2 to hit extra attack, though I'm not sure it's considered a natural attack.

Ramza00
2007-03-26, 11:19 AM
Draconic Template is 1LA and will get you two claws. It is what the king of smack uses if I recall. (He then amplifies those claws with the psionic power claws of the beast)

Ramza00
2007-03-26, 11:21 AM
Also mention claws of the vampire. That is a good psionic power. There is also a weaker version of claws of the beast ardents can get off one of the mantles without using expanded knowledge.

AtomicKitKat
2007-03-26, 11:22 AM
Whoa, threadomancy. Speaking of the Totemist... The more I hear about the class, the more I suspect someone at WotC is a big Anime fan and decided to adapt the Patch("Apache") tribe from Shaman King...

Ramza00
2007-03-26, 11:24 AM
Post 4 of Surreals Handy Links for Co work will be useful
http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9529432&postcount=4

Has a list of size increasing (for monk but many work for natural attacks) and how to get pounce.

Indon
2007-03-26, 11:26 AM
Can natural attacks be used for precision damage?

Ramza00
2007-03-26, 11:26 AM
Can natural attacks be used for precision damage?
Yes, so load up on sneak attack

Variable Arcana
2007-03-26, 11:41 AM
I can't believe no one has mentioned Xill.

4 claws. 4 attacks.


5 HD of outsiders, multiattack as a bonus feat and multi-weapon fighting as a HD feat. Take 6 levels of monk and improved multiweapon fighting, and you've got 9 attacks per round doing 1d8+str each (before the bonus from Power Attack and the bonus from that Amulet of Mighty Fists you're wearing -- and a monk's belt ups it to 1d10's). At ECL:15, of course...

Of course, the really killer Xill build uses 6 levels of rogue... the monk's belt still gets you 1d8 base damage, but add 3d6 sneak-attack damage to each of your eight natural attacks (with imp. mwpf) -- for added cheese factor, carry around a wand of grease to UMD.

Fax Celestis
2007-03-26, 11:42 AM
I can't believe no one has mentioned Xill.

4 claws. 4 attacks.


5 HD of outsiders, multiattack as a bonus feat and multi-weapon fighting as a HD feat. Take 6 levels of monk and improved multiweapon fighting, and you've got 9 attacks per round doing 1d8+str each (before the bonus from Power Attack and the bonus from that Amulet of Mighty Fists you're wearing -- and a monk's belt ups it to 1d10's). At ECL:15, of course...

Of course, the really killer Xill build uses 6 levels of rogue... the monk's belt still gets you 1d8 base damage, but add 3d6 sneak-attack damage to each of your eight natural attacks (with imp. mwpf) -- for added cheese factor, carry around a wand of grease to UMD.

The problem with Xill is their +4 LA, making them effectively ECL 9.

Ramza00
2007-03-26, 11:48 AM
I can't believe no one has mentioned Xill.

4 claws. 4 attacks.


5 HD of outsiders, multiattack as a bonus feat and multi-weapon fighting as a HD feat. Take 6 levels of monk and improved multiweapon fighting, and you've got 9 attacks per round doing 1d8+str each (before the bonus from Power Attack and the bonus from that Amulet of Mighty Fists you're wearing -- and a monk's belt ups it to 1d10's). At ECL:15, of course...

Of course, the really killer Xill build uses 6 levels of rogue... the monk's belt still gets you 1d8 base damage, but add 3d6 sneak-attack damage to each of your eight natural attacks (with imp. mwpf) -- for added cheese factor, carry around a wand of grease to UMD.

Thri Keen is better due to Xill's LA.

NEO|Phyte
2007-03-26, 11:57 AM
I was toying around with something like this a while ago. I think I had decided on a WereDeinonychus Ninja. Swift action ghost step for invisibility, Pounce the shiz out of something, rinse, repeat.

Of course, it was for a Gestalt game, so the other half was Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker/Warshaper, but thats a different story. Pretty sure I had his will save up high enough that he could drop Frenzy without needing to roll (yay Steadfast Determination)

Variable Arcana
2007-03-26, 02:59 PM
Wow. It's been a while since I've looked at Thri-Kreen... you're right -- they have very similar characteristics.

(I still like the Xill's at-will ethereal jaunt and considerably greater attribute boosts... but the 5+4 does really hurt.)

marjan
2007-03-26, 04:13 PM
You have Bite of WereX spells from SC that grant some ability boni and natural attacks.

Matthew
2007-03-28, 10:03 PM
Didn't we sort out the whole Secondary Attack, Weapon, Bite, Claw thingy?

The_Snark
2007-03-28, 10:13 PM
A couple of the Deformity feats help. Deformity (teeth) from Heroes of Horror will get you a bite attack, Deformity (clawed hands) from Book of Vile Darkness either gives you a claw attack or just improves unarmed attacks; the wording is ambiguous. They both require Willing Deformity and evil alignment.

Savage Species also has the Multiheaded template, notable for being one of the few ways to get multiple bite attacks. It doesn't give you extra bites unless you already have a bite, though. +2 LA, and 2 HD for each extra head (the LA scales according to how many heads are added, actually, but for Medium creatures the number of heads maxes out before this happens, making it irrelevant).

Stephen_E
2007-03-29, 01:48 AM
Related to the theme.

Animals that have only one attack you get Multi Attack from Animal Companion levels get a secondary attack at -5.

No use for a uber attack build but worth mentioning for completeness.

Stephen

Person_Man
2007-03-29, 10:35 AM
Didn't we sort out the whole Secondary Attack, Weapon, Bite, Claw thingy?

Yes. The controlling factor is the wording of the race/feat/whatever that gives you the attack. If the wording of the description says that you can use it as a natural secondary attack, then you can. You make your normal attack routine, and then make your secondary natural attacks at a -5 penalty. You can't use a natural secondary attack if you're physically prevented from doing so (you can't use a claw attack if you're holding a weapon). If the description doesn't say you can use your natural attack as a secondary attack, then you can't. Many descriptions for races that were never specifically meant for PC's are ambiguously worded, or have no description, just an attack routine in the statistics block. In such cases, its left to DM discretion.

You do not get iterative attacks from natural attacks, unless you have the Rapidstike feats, which are poorly worded as well.

Monks benefit from secondary claw and slam attacks that other classes otherwise couldn't use while holding a weapon, because they don't have to use their hands for unarmed attacks. But most Monk builds are very feat hungry and suck usually suck compared to most melee builds, so its hard to pull off.

Matthew
2007-03-29, 07:21 PM
Hmmn. How does a Hybrid Form Were Bear use a Great Axe in conjunction with a Claw Attack, anyway? Is this not some sort of Stat Block error? What other kinds of creatures get to use their Claw Attacks as Secondary Weapons in conjunction with Manufactured Weapons? The only one that springs to mind is the Centaur and its Hoof Attacks.

SpatulaOfDoom
2007-03-30, 12:23 AM
Quick note the Thrikreen also has a bite attack.

brian c
2007-03-30, 07:25 PM
The Animal Lord PrC from Complete Adventurer has "aspects", some of which give you natural attacks. Bear I know gives you claws, and I think Snake gives you a bite? These aren't permanent though, only up to 3/day for a few minutes.

ChaosOfTheStick
2007-03-30, 10:03 PM
Im surprised Shifters arent on the race list. On top of that, i would also add symbiots. The crawling gauntlet from magic of eberron comes to mind, as does the tongueworm from the Eberron Campaign Setting. Im sure there are more if one is willing to dig a bit.


I would suggest dipping into Incarnum. Snip...

I came up with a similar idea that uses ToB to get around 17 attacks. Combine that with Stormguard Warrior and you are looking at thousands in damage with the right maneuvers.

DreadArchon
2007-06-05, 10:21 AM
Master of Masks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=3) will give you two claw attacks that can scale with level and Fang of Lolth (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207) gives you four of them on their own limbs. Fang of Lolth who gains hand claws and takes Improved Natural Attack: Claw? *shudder*

AtomicKitKat
2007-06-05, 10:31 PM
Insectile doesn't grant more attacks unless you go Fang of Lolth(which says that you grow claws on your hands, or something like that).

Arachnid creature would be nice, except I think it only works with Animals and Magical Beasts. Still, if you go Primeval(Frostburn), you gain the Magical Beast type, so that's one way to abuse it I guess.

brian c
2007-06-06, 10:38 AM
Hm, this thread is alive again. From Races of the Dragon there's a Draconic tail feat that gives a tail slap attack that says it can be used as a secondary natural attack, prereq of Dragonblood subtype, 1st level only.

Also, I know that Savage Species is looked down upon, but the Feral template in there gives two claw attacks. Doesn't say that they can be used as secondary attacks though, but i guess it would be DM's discretion so it's worth mentioning anyway, and it also gives Rake and Rend attacks.

TimeWizard
2007-06-06, 11:41 AM
What about Snap Kick?

brian c
2007-06-06, 01:19 PM
What about Snap Kick?

Well, that's a way of getting extra attacks when fighting unarmed, so it isn't the same as most of these things that add another natural attack, and I'm not sure it'd be rules-legal to use Snap Kick when you're using Natural Attacks instead of Unarmed Strikes.

Quietus
2007-06-06, 01:23 PM
Well, that's a way of getting extra attacks when fighting unarmed, so it isn't the same as most of these things that add another natural attack, and I'm not sure it'd be rules-legal to use Snap Kick when you're using Natural Attacks instead of Unarmed Strikes.

But if you use a flurrying monk as a base for all these natural attacks, you DO have unarmeds in there, so Snap Kick could be added to your regular routine.

DreadArchon
2007-06-06, 02:26 PM
Half-Vampire template from Libris Mortis gives you a Slam attack without specifying the body slot (unlike most claws, which typically overlap each other). Hmmm, wonder if there's any more templates like that...

AtomicKitKat
2007-06-06, 11:39 PM
Half-Vampire template from Libris Mortis gives you a Slam attack without specifying the body slot (unlike most claws, which typically overlap each other). Hmmm, wonder if there's any more templates like that...

It's generally supposed to be a large hand slap, or something like that, so it won't work with a wielded weapon though. Not really an issue if fighting unarmed or with other natural attacks.