[3.5] The Bard's best Cleric dip

[Twilightwyrm]

So I've checked around google, as well as the Cleric dip Handbook, and I cannot seem to find much in the way of advice as to what I should take from taking 1 level of Cleric in an otherwise bard-centric build. So, I was wondering if the good people here would have any particular advice on this subject.

If it helps, I was tending towards a Bard/Sublime Chord/Gish class. The idea is to gain access to some of the power that is 9th level spells, be able to (kind of) Gish, and otherwise provide support, since I only have one other party member that looks to be making a blasting warlock, and I anticipate us having to fight the Lord of the Abyss at some point. This being said, specifically good dips for bardsaders or bardblades would also be most welcome, as well as any that might just be good for bards in general.

[eggynack]

I don't know if there's anything specific to your goals, but if you just want increased combat effectiveness, there's always the standard cleric loadout of animal (or law) devotion, knowledge devotion, and travel devotion. It gets you generally above par in terms of attack bonus, and the free movement is excellent on a fighting guy. I dunno if those are better options than just going straight bardblade, but they're options. What does your build look like, in a specific sense?

[CyberThread]

Well sub, has alot of odd skill needs, but no feat needs, so your free from any tax on that, which means we now break it down into what is useful for you.



The usual feats
Planning Domain: extend spell
time domain improved initiative
War Domain: If you want a proficiency outside the usual bard weapons, plus a free weapon focus.
shadow domain : gives you blind fight



The spell friendly feats

Enchantment domain: Spell focus: Enhancement


Expand your party usefulness

Kobold domain you get disable device as a thing and finding traps like a rogue
Knowledge domain : all things are open to you for knowledge skills, but this is often transformed into knowledge devotion , google it, good for a bard.


rune domain : Scribe scroll

[Twilightwyrm]

Interesting suggestions. I was equally considering a Cloistered Cleric dip, meaning I'd get the Knowledge domain/devotion for free, but those others are interesting. Unfortunately, I cannot make use of the Kobold domain, as the character has no particular love for Kobolds. I don't suppose there are any domain powers that would be particularly useful?

In terms of a more specific build, I was thinking something along the lines of:
Bard 8/Swashbuckler 1/Other 1/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 4/Unseen Seer 4. My reasoning for this is that I also end up having to be the skillmonkey of the group, for previously stated reasons, otherwise I would just go full melee gish for the last 8 levels. This makes the last 8 levels somewhat more optional. (I discounted Virtuoso due to the horrid BAB progression, which is unfortunately because it would have made an otherwise excellent finish to this build)

[kulosle]

Is swashbuckler in the build for any specific reason? Have you had a look at the Spellsinger class from races of fearun? Bards are so very close to gish builds already, the main problem i find when doing it though is keeping my bardic music up. Chaos Music is a drag mag feat that is essentially the bardic music version of practiced spellcaster. It increases the strength of your bard spells by 4 but not above your hit dice.

The main problem i have when coming up with a suggestion is that you want to also be the skill monkey, that's 3 jobs your trying to fulfill now. The only good suggestion i have is a 2-4 level totemist dip. It can net you some nice natural attacks to go with you inspire courage and a few skill boosters if you want to pick them up.

[CyberThread]

Hmm what would spellsinger give for him?

[ranagrande]

Maybe go for a druid dip instead of cleric?

Rogue 2/Druid 1/Bard 7/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9 could probably do everything you're looking for.

Great skills, 15 BAB, level 3 Bard spells, level 9 Sublime Chord spells, and level 5 Druid spells as an added bonus.

If you do want Bard 8 and/or SC 2, you can always take less Fochlucan Lyrist. If you want a higher BAB, you could trade the rogue levels for Master Thrower, but you'd have to burn three feats to do it.

[nedz]

If it's just the spells you want then consider the Arcane Disciple feat instead.

[Vaz]

You can fluff the kobold domain as a studying (knowledge devotions?) To learn how to defeat them better.

[Twilightwyrm]

Is swashbuckler in the build for any specific reason? Have you had a look at the Spellsinger class from races of fearun? Bards are so very close to gish builds already, the main problem i find when doing it though is keeping my bardic music up. Chaos Music is a drag mag feat that is essentially the bardic music version of practiced spellcaster. It increases the strength of your bard spells by 4 but not above your hit dice.

The main problem i have when coming up with a suggestion is that you want to also be the skill monkey, that's 3 jobs your trying to fulfill now. The only good suggestion i have is a 2-4 level totemist dip. It can net you some nice natural attacks to go with you inspire courage and a few skill boosters if you want to pick them up.

The Swashbuckler level serves a few purposes. First: it gives me proficiency with all martial weapons. While not strictly necessary in the build, if I decide to swap out levels for most any other gish PrC it may become necessary, and further I expect I may need something more complex than a longspear for future engagements where reach is necessary. Second, it gives greater skills per level than a fighter, with the same BAB and HD size. This is important, as I am trying to retain as many skill points as possible. Third, it gives me Weapon Finesse, which, while more limited than a fighter bonus feat, still serves the build well, as my Dex is higher than my Str. Third, it is thematic- we are in a Savage Tides campaign setting, and the character is already a swashbuckler of sorts, so I thought it appropriate. And finally, a Warblade/Swordsage dip would not be allowed- even if I were to overcome the fact that there is no such adepts to train me on hand, I'm not sure the DM is allowing it in this particular case.

I know it is a lot of ask of one character. The thing is, the other player is very new to the game, and it kind of focusing on his own thing (and not in a terribly optimized fashion at that). Normally I would rely on the DM to adjust the adventure accordingly, but we are involved in the Savage Tide Dragon Magazine campaign, and I'm not sure how good the DM is going to be at scaling back the difficulty appropriately. Our combination is working wellish so far, but I fear for later in the campaign when the story assumes we have access to some capability that we do not, or sets us up against enemies that it would normally be expecting an entire party to face. This is why I am trying to cover so many roles at once. If anything, I don't need to be a dedicated skillmonkey. Just skillful enough to comfortably get by.

Edit: I apologize for the delay, as I was out of town for the past couple days. I am hoping this topic has not died yet.

[Twilightwyrm]

Maybe go for a druid dip instead of cleric?

Rogue 2/Druid 1/Bard 7/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9 could probably do everything you're looking for.

Great skills, 15 BAB, level 3 Bard spells, level 9 Sublime Chord spells, and level 5 Druid spells as an added bonus.

If you do want Bard 8 and/or SC 2, you can always take less Fochlucan Lyrist. If you want a higher BAB, you could trade the rogue levels for Master Thrower, but you'd have to burn three feats to do it.

I would love to do this, but this would require me to find a way to get my Wis up to 15 minimum, from 13. And I'm in need of extra level points for my Cha to boot.