Need super help on a Ranger build.

[ZethVorador]

Hey all! So last night my younger brother decided he wanted to come to a DnD game with me and my friends. he's about 18 so I think he'll do great. We started making up a character for him and since I've never made a full board archery ranger it was a tough time. Anyways we finished it and his damage potential looks like to much to me so I'll get the character down and see if I screwed anything up. Thanks in advance for all the Help!

Class-Ranger
Level-8
Animal Companion-Fleshraker
Race- Wood Elf
Alignment-Chaotic Good
Saves- Fort+6, Ref+6, Will+2
HP-60
Stats:
16 Str
20 Dex
14 Con
15 Wis
13 Cha
14 Int
(I still have two ability points I don't know where to put them)

Starting gold-34000

Weapon-+2 +3 Composite Longbow or Collision=32700

Armor-Masterwork Spider silk Armor=1000

Misc arrows and adventuring gear=300

Feats-Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Weapon Focus Longbow, Weapon specialization Longbow, Ranged Mastery Piercing, Endurance, Track.

Ok so here's where I get confused. Either I am missing something or his damage potential is pretty big for level 8

1D8+3 (Composite) +2 (Magic) +5 (Collision) +2 (Mastery) +2 (Specialization)

So that puts his minimum damage at 15 and his max at 22. With Rapid Shot and Many Shot (Which I know can't be combined) that still gives him a fair amount of damage per turn.

So here's my questions:
A) Does this build really work?
B) Which would be better to use for his rapid shot or manyshot and why?
D) Is there any major things I am missing somehow?

My Dm is against homebrew weapons so we are limited to index's and MIC.

Thanks in advance for any help and advice I really appreciate it! Also he want's to be a super archer so any other builds/class suggestions are more then welcome.

[FleshrakerAbuse]

If your DM allows Dragon material, Dead-Eye allows you to add your Dex to damage. That would dramatically increase damage.

By the way, you could just use BAB attacks with Rapid Shot.

I'd suggest looking at the shooting star ranger substitution levels; grants more ranged options, I think. How did you get Weapon Specialization as a ranger? I'd suggest trying for Ranged Disarm.

For spells, I'd suggest getting arrow mind and Hunter's Mercy. Hunter's Mercy = instant crit. That is, sir, very high damage for a *3.

[ZethVorador]

See I knew I must have missed something. Specialization is for fighters. So he loses the the specialization and mastery. So that leave's two feats open and two ability point to spend. I'll take a look at your suggestions right now

[Metahuman1]

There's a web article for Hank's Bow, form the old D&D cartoon, but with stats updated to 3.5E. You want him to have that bow.


Invest in Nightsticks, and Dip a level of cloistered cleric. Drop some ranks in Knowledge Arcana, religion, local, the planes, nature, and MAYBE Dungeoneering. Trade Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion, Travel Domain for Travel Devotion. Grab the Planning Domain, fluff it as knowing when to pick your fights and how to lay an ambush, that's rangery. Fluff the other two as you've been many places in your long life exploring the wilds and picked up a few things.

Pick up the Feats Persist Spell and Divine Metamagic, Persist spell.

As you go through your career, pick up Items that have some limitations on race and alignment and class and the like to knock down there cost that boost knowledge skill checks on the listed knowledge skills. Use the DMG for relevant rules and guidelines.


That will cover most of the things an Archer Needs, it gives him a way around damage reduction/energy resistance/immunity (which are crippling to them.), A way to move and full attacking at the same time, some bonuses to hit and damage form knowledge devotion and power attack with the bow + a couple of booster spells to your STR mod, and some awesome archer buff spells form the ranger list + ability to use magic items from the cleric list.


It's not a cleric or Archivist Archer, but it's not bad as archers go.

[ZethVorador]

So with dead eye his feats would be Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus Longbow and Dead Eye. How does it work with composite bows then?

So his damage would be 1D8+2 Magic+5 collision+5 Dex=13-20 damage?
or 16-23 if comp is still added?

[ericp65]

I'd put the remaining ability points into WIS, and plan for the character to take an archery-centered PrC.

[ericp65]

So with dead eye his feats would be Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus Longbow and Dead Eye. How does it work with composite bows then?

So his damage would be 1D8+2 Magic+5 collision+5 Dex=13-20 damage?
or 16-23 if comp is still added?

Composite bows allow the character to apply STR bonus to damage, limited by the bow's STR rating.

[Zombulian]

SUUUPER HEEEEELP! Maybe look into dropping a level or two into Psychic Warrior and go into slayer. Pick up Psionic Shot, Improved Psionic Shot, and Fell Shot. Maybe use the Dissolving Weapon power as well.

[ZethVorador]

So if he takes dead eye does he get to apply his Composite Strength bonus and Dex Bonus to damage?

[Zombulian]

So if he takes dead eye does he get to apply his Composite Strength bonus and Dex Bonus to damage?

Yessir. Targeteer Fighter on top of that can give you more Dex to damage.

[ZethVorador]

Ok so I think I'll tell him to go with Point Blank, Weapon Focus and Dead Eye.

Leaves his damage at 1D8+2 Magic+3 Str+5 Collision+5 Dex=16-23 damage. With rapid shot he can launch 3 arrows a round. What's the benefit or Manyshot because it looks like rapid shot is a better choice for him? I still don't fully understand how manyshot works.

[Darrin]

Whoops. Didn't notice the double post. From the other thread:



Weapon-+2 +3 Composite Longbow or Collision=32700


A Shocking Frost bow gets better damage on average (7 instead of 5) than Collision. Add a Lesser Crystal of Acid Assault and you're doing 10.5 damage rather than 5.



Armor-Masterwork Spider silk Armor=1000


Darkleaf/Mithral Breastplate gives you +2 more AC.



Feats-Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Weapon Focus Longbow, Weapon specialization Longbow, Ranged Mastery Piercing, Endurance, Track.


Weapon Specialization and Ranged Weapon Mastery are only available to fighters, unless your group has handwaved this via house rules. Manyshot also requires PB Shot, which you don't have here.



So that puts his minimum damage at 15 and his max at 22. With Rapid Shot and Many Shot (Which I know can't be combined) that still gives him a fair amount of damage per turn.


Most of your bog-standard Fighter/Barbarian charger types can dish out that sort of damage... at level 1. I haven't played around all that much with archery builds, but at level 8, this sort of damage against CR-equivalent foes might just possibly make them mildly annoyed.



A) Does this build really work?


Other than Weapon Specialization restricted to Fighters and missing a prereq for Manyshot... I guess it works about as well as any other single-class archery build. A Fighter 8 with a similar selection of feats could probably do a bit better with a composite greatbow.



B) Which would be better to use for his rapid shot or manyshot and why?


The penalties are much worse on Manyshot, and it has some additional restrictions: precision damage on only first shot, and does not work well with "extra attack" effects like haste. Rapid Shot is going to hit more often. The only reason to go after Manyshot is if you really need to move + attack to trigger skirmish damage.



D) Is there any major things I am missing somehow?


Swift Hunter, mostly.


Race: Human, Azurin, or Strongheart Halfing
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: PB Shot, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot
3) Scout 1. Feat: Precise Shot. Skirmish 1d6.
4) Scout 2.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
6) Ranger 3. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
7) Ranger 4. Swap Animal Companion -> Distracting Attack. Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
8) Ranger 5.
9) Ranger 6. Bonus: Manyshot. Feat: Greater Manyshot. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
10) Scout 4. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6+4.
11) Highland Stalker 1.
12) Highland Stalker 2. Feat: Improved Rapid Shot. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Ranger 7. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5.
14) Ranger 8.
15) Ranger 9. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5.
16) Ranger 10.
17) Ranger 11. Bonus: Improved Precise Shot. Skirmish 5d6AC+4/7d6AC+6.
18) Ranger 12. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3)
19) Ranger 13. Camouflage. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6.
20) Ranger 14. 4th level spells.

Something else to consider: Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc (from Dragon Magic) can swap Endurance for any bonus feat. After you take Ranger 3, you can undergo the Ritual of Rebirth to become a Dragonborn of Bahumat (Races of the Dragon). You lose your racial abilites along with Endurance, but keep the bonus feat you swapped it for. Also gives you a fly speed, and archery + flight vs. groundpounders = lots of dead groundpounders.

[ZethVorador]

Thanks for all the help guys! I think we've got what we need to make his ranger great now!

[DEMON]

May be a little too late for posting, but if you are still open to suggestions, what books are available to you?

Ranger's best friend with all things archery are his spells. But the best ones are listed in Spell Compendium and Champions of Ruin, so if you don't have access to these source books you might even consider swapping out spells for some other feature or multiclassing/PrCing out of Ranger.

CoR also lists one of the best (or perhaps the very best?) bow enhancements in game - Splitting
MIC has Force enhancement that does wonders for archers and a Hunting enhancement that is also quite handy for Ranger (also synergizes well with Extra Favored Enemy feat)
RotW have a decent list of special arrows, serpentstongue should be your choice of "mundane arrows" as they help with x/slashing DR for a negligible increase in price

Improved Favored enemy is an easy way to boost damage (once again nice synergy with Extra FE)
Weapon Focus is not worth it unless it's a prereq for another Feat or (prestige) class
Dead Eye (Dragon Compendium/Dragon Magazine) is a great way to up damage
Hand Crossbow Focus + Crossbow Sniper (+ Improved Critical?)(+ Telling Blow is a rather unorthodox way of crit (and sneak attack) fishing if you have levels of Rogue. Works with Rapid Shot, does not Work with Manyshot (Dragon Magazine offers some alternative bonus feats, I believe one was Crossbow oriented). Just keep in mind some spells/feats only work with bows and not crossbows.

Scout (CAdv) and a Swift Hunter feat, Rogue and Craven (CoR) feat, Justice of Weald and Woe (CoR) are interesting options for multiclassing, each of these helps to up your damage potential via Sneak Attack or Skirmish and gives some other nice bonuses.

Also your animal companion, especially if taking another classes, is dead on arrival. Swapping it for another class feature would be a good idea.