What Does an Animal Companion do When it's Master dies? [PF]

[BigKahuna]

This is a DM-Only thread - Tom, Peter, Joel and Michael this is the time to stop reading

My players made a very ill-advised attack on an Orc tribe's camp. After I described the camp as having over a hundred orcs lead by a Chieftan who appeared to be a powerful magic user, my party of four level 5 characters decided they could successfully take on this tribe if they had the right strategy. They decided to split the party for their attack. The ranger, the druid and the druid's cheetah were to stealthily sneak into the valley where the Orcs were camped and free some prisoners. While they were doing this, the fighter, the cleric and the ranger's wolf were to create a diversion at a gate at the top of the valley.

The plan wasn't a complete failure but, towards the end of the session, the ranger died a horrible death. The problem is I'm trying to gauge exactly what the ranger's animal companion will do next session. First, I need to figure out if the companion will know it's master is dead and second, if it does know, whether it will stand and fight with the party or run away.

[Gerrtt]

Without having any specific sources for this answer, I'd say that the animal companion loses any benefits that it has for being an animal companion, becoming an otherwise normal animal that is under no specific instructions to be friends with the party. That doesn't mean it's just going to start attacking the party, but it might run off frightened and confused into the local wilderness.

[Phelix-Mu]

By RAW, an animal companion must receive commands from the character it belongs to in order to function in combat. Conceivably, a different character with Handle Animal can command it using the default Handle Animal skill rules, relying on the same set of tricks that the animal companion already knows.

So, going forward, the animal companion needs someone to handle it; it's still just an animal on steroids, and is no more intelligent.

There are generally two possible interpretations:
1.) An animal companion that no longer has a master loses it's animal companion features, and goes back to being a normal animal. This seems logical, since otherwise there would be a fair number of super-strong animals running around, as druids/rangers often change animal companions over their careers. On the other hand, this can lead to some weirdness, like one round the animal can jump real well, and the next round it can't. An important thing to consider is whether the former-animal companion also loses access to the tricks that were taught to it.

2.) An animal companion stays special, even after the loss of its master. As noted above, this can lead to weirdness, too. Such an animal companion would definitely still know it's tricks, and others with Handle Animal could use the skill to get the animal companion to perform those tricks.

A nice compromise would be that the animal companion stays special for 1 day/level of the deceased/lost master, possibly losing 1 trick per day or something, until at the end of that time, it's just a normal animal.

EDIT: oh, just noticed the PF tag. *facepalm* What I said can only be considered accurate in 3.5, as I know naught of PF.

[Sylthia]

What are the party's plans moving forward? Will the ranger be raised or will another similar ranger take his place? If either of those, the companion could tag along until then. If not, the companion could follow if the party makes a handle animal check, but it couldn't function in combat.

[hamishspence]

The SRD doesn't say. I could see ex-companions retaining their boosts, especially if the boosts are implied to be nonmagical.

[Feralventas]

Somewhat relevant; I once had a ranger PC who didn't get much time in the spot light, and for the most part was a pretty quiet, mundane tag-along to his planer animal companion. The companion, on the other hand, had more character, was regularly more useful and eventually the player decided to abandon the pretense and switched from a Ranger with a companion to an Arrow Hawk with Leadership.

It's not the norm by any means, but if the player liked the animal companion, playing as one, particularly if the party could afford to have it Awakened, could work out quite nicely. Natural Weapon styled Ranger, Druid, Fighter, Barbarian, and Rogue all look like they'd fit pretty well.


A little more on topic, I'd agree that unless the party takes action to prevent it from happening, the Animal Companion would probably wander off on its own from here; their link to the party is dead unless someone establishes a new one.

[Barsoom]

Even though its master died, the animal is still subject to the Handle Animal skill (for example, by the Druid). Although the druid will gain no special bonuses handling the animal, as it's not his companion.

If there is no use of Handle Animal, or if the Handle Animal check fails, the animal is in effect an NPC under the control of the DM. You get to decide. If you think it's appropriate for the animal to stay with the party and fight, so be it. If you think it's appropriate for it to cower and run, or to wander around looking for its master, or anything else, oh well.

[Drachasor]

A little more on topic, I'd agree that unless the party takes action to prevent it from happening, the Animal Companion would probably wander off on its own from here; their link to the party is dead unless someone establishes a new one.

If it was treated well it would probably stick around, imho.

[Lysander]

If it was treated well it would probably stick around, imho.

I think it would basically become a trained circus animal. It would be familiar with the party from its time spent with them, and would probably follow them as long as they feed it. It would view the party as a food source, not as food, so it's unlikely to attack them unless it gets really hungry.

Getting it to actually do anything for the party would require a handle animal check though. And it would be limited to the tricks the handle animal skill taught it, and couldn't use any of the bonus tricks it received from being an animal companion

[Keneth]

Same thing that happens when you release a companion — it becomes a normal trained animal (assuming it was trained as an animal companion). If it's intelligent, it might stick around (not all animals are loyal, even when domesticated), if it's a vermin companion, it would probably just scuttle away to safety.

[Scow2]

I think it would basically become a trained circus animal. It would be familiar with the party from its time spent with them, and would probably follow them as long as they feed it. It would view the party as a food source, not as food, so it's unlikely to attack them unless it gets really hungry.

Getting it to actually do anything for the party would require a handle animal check though. And it would be limited to the tricks the handle animal skill taught it, and couldn't use any of the bonus tricks it received from being an animal companion

Why couldn't it use any of the tricks learned from being an animal companion?

I see no reason for the creature to lose any of its benefits - Yes, it has an edge over wild animals in the monster manual... but those haven't had the advantage of being trained by a ranger. It would not lose any advancement at all.

[Averis Vol]

In one of the first games I played in I was a human ranger with wolf companion. yY connection with the animal was so deep (My DM had me write a backstory for it because I was from a big town away from a wolf infested area, So he had found it in his fledgling ranger years caught in a bear trap in the forest when it was young. He freed it and nursed it back to health and it became a pet, but more then that a friend to a young man who had just lost his parents) that when the ranger died fighting a bullet riding hobgoblin warlord, the wolf kept fighting on, then just curled up at the rangers side and stayed there, growling at anyone who came near (no one wanted to go toe to toe with it, seeing as it had a higher kill count than the fighter).

This was my favorite experience with a ranger dying and the companion living, so if the ranger was a good master, just give some heartwarming sentiment like that. As for all of its abilities; I see no reason why they would go away. His bond with his master may be gone, but theres no reason he should be any less special.

[DrDeth]

The wolf would continue his last set of orders. If he realizes his master is dead, he would likely attack those responsible, then wander off.

[Keneth]

Why couldn't it use any of the tricks learned from being an animal companion?

I see no reason for the creature to lose any of its benefits - Yes, it has an edge over wild animals in the monster manual... but those haven't had the advantage of being trained by a ranger. It would not lose any advancement at all.

Because the animal itself is not advancing, it's the character they're bonded to that is advancing and granting it new abilities as they do. If you get a new animal companion, it doesn't start at 2HD again, having to advance back to whatever HD it's supposed to have, it immediately starts right where the previous one left off.

The only thing that remains after the bond is broken, are the tricks that were taught to it with the Handle Animal skill (i.e. not the extra ones they get for being animal companions).

[Rubik]

It gets a free Awaken spell and becomes the replacement party member, as the ranger's spirit either inhabits it or grants it one final parting gift.

It's not RAW, but I like it.

[Drachasor]

The wolf would continue his last set of orders. If he realizes his master is dead, he would likely attack those responsible, then wander off.

As strongly social animal, I think a wolf would be more likely to stick around than a moose or bear.

[Scow2]

Because the animal itself is not advancing, it's the character they're bonded to that is advancing and granting it new abilities as they do. If you get a new animal companion, it doesn't start at 2HD again, having to advance back to whatever HD it's supposed to have, it immediately starts right where the previous one left off.

The only thing that remains after the bond is broken, are the tricks that were taught to it with the Handle Animal skill (i.e. not the extra ones they get for being animal companions).

That's because a higher-level character can attract a more powerful animal companion. He still has to teach it its tricks as normal.

Guess what: 2 HD is only the weakest common form of an animal available (The equivalent of Warriors and Commoners), and can be advanced. It's possible to find 20-HD legendary cheetahs and the like in the wild.

[Keneth]

That's because a higher-level character can attract a more powerful animal companion.

They can, but the strength of the animal makes no difference when they become animal companions. A brown bear turns into a 2HD animal companion when a 1st level druid bonds with it, and turns back into a 5HD killing machine if the druid decides it doesn't want it anymore the next day.


He still has to teach it its tricks as normal.

Only the ones it doesn't get automatically from the animal companion "class". Those are also the ones it keeps after reverting back to a normal animal.

[Scow2]

They can, but the strength of the animal makes no difference when they become animal companions. A brown bear turns into a 2HD animal companion when a 1st level druid bonds with it, and turns back into a 5HD killing machine if the druid decides it doesn't want it anymore the next day.[quote]No, a Ranger/druid attracts a 2HD Small Brown Bear (Cub?) as a companion at level 1, which grows and matures with the druid. If he abandons it, it remains a 2HD small creature. You can't be a level 1 Druid with a Bear, get into a big fight, dismiss your animal companion, and suddenly add a Large, 5 HD killing-machine that you can Animal Empathy into not killing your party, then hang out with it in prayer for 24 hours to shrink it back down.

[quote]Only the ones it doesn't get automatically from the animal companion "class". Those are also the ones it keeps after reverting back to a normal animal.The ones it gets from the "Animal Companion Class" are tricks it learns traveling with the Druid. They don't require any extra training, but they're inherent to the animal companion anyway. An animal companion without a master is still an animal companion, for better or for worse.

[TuggyNE]

They can, but the strength of the animal makes no difference when they become animal companions. A brown bear turns into a 2HD animal companion when a 1st level druid bonds with it, and turns back into a 5HD killing machine if the druid decides it doesn't want it anymore the next day.

This is not at all the case. 1st-level druids cannot bond with brown bears at all; rather, a 7th-level druid can take a brown bear as a companion, and the brown bear will have its usual game stats (i.e., 6 HD, not 5) as well as the adjustments a 1st-level druid would apply to its companion.

[Phelix-Mu]

But if the animal is permanently enhanced, a resourceful high level druid that wants to even the score with local hunters might just repeatedly dismiss animal companions until all of the local animals had stats as a high-level druid's animal companion. This would be weird if it really was like that, and has the potential for large-scale exploitation (Animal Companion rotation plus dominate animal and the like).

The fact that animal companions can be switched with minimal impact on the master gives me the impression that the bond is not a mechanically strong as the one between a master and familiar, for instance.

[Keneth]

No, a Ranger/druid attracts a 2HD Small Brown Bear (Cub?) as a companion at level 1, which grows and matures with the druid.

The rules don't state such a thing anywhere since that would be ridiculous. A druid can advance far more quickly than the animal has the chance to mature, but it'll increase in size anyway at the appropriate level. No, you can form a bond with any specimen, regardless of its HD, as long as it's on the list. Their size and abilities are entirely independent of their maturity or advancement. The only notable exception is the roc, where the rules explicitly state that only hatchlings can be bonded with.


An animal companion without a master is still an animal companion, for better or for worse.

That is incorrect, animal companions, just like familiars, revert back to their original states. It might not be instantaneous (that's up to the GM), but that's how the ability works.


This is not at all the case. 1st-level druids cannot bond with brown bears at all; rather, a 7th-level druid can take a brown bear as a companion

This is a Pathfinder thread. But I'll forgive you this once for missing the blatantly obvious tag in the title. :smalltongue:

[BigKahuna]

As strongly social animal, I think a wolf would be more likely to stick around than a moose or bear.

That's a good point, but I'm not sure this wolf is going to stick around. He has only known the rest of the party for about 4 days and has almost been killed twice. Also, as the player is going to come back in with a detective (rogue 5/sleepless detective 1) instead of a ranger, I don't see any particular reason for the wolf to be there. The party members who are currently with the wolf don't have handle animal either, the reason it was fighting for them is that I had ruled it's master telling it to guard those party members was good enough (they really needed all the help they could get).

[Scow2]

The rules don't state such a thing anywhere since that would be ridiculous. A druid can advance far more quickly than the animal has the chance to mature, but it'll increase in size anyway at the appropriate level. No, you can form a bond with any specimen, regardless of its HD, as long as it's on the list. Their size and abilities are entirely independent of their maturity or advancement. The only notable exception is the roc, where the rules explicitly state that only hatchlings can be bonded with. That's because the pathfinder rules are wierd, and have animal companion rules for "balance" instead of sense - sort of like 3.5's Monster Class rules, and the illithid that can't eat until level 8.




That is incorrect, animal companions, just like familiars, revert back to their original states. It might not be instantaneous (that's up to the GM), but that's how the ability works.There is nothing that says they revert back to their "Original form" at all - largely because they never leave it - it just grows. Animal companions, unlike Familiars, are still normal animals, though living with a ranger has an abnormal effect on its development. The magic that enhances the mind of a familiar is not present in an animal companion.

Animal companion is like a passive Animal Training taken to 11.

[Barsoom]

That is incorrect, animal companions, just like familiars, revert back to their original states. It might not be instantaneous (that's up to the GM), but that's how the ability works.It's a fair interpretation, but I believe that's all it is - and interpretation. Because there's no actual rule stating this, as far as I know. But feel free to prove me wrong by linking to the relevant rule.

[TuggyNE]

This is a Pathfinder thread. But I'll forgive you this once for missing the blatantly obvious tag in the title. :smalltongue:

Erg. Why did they change that?

I can, at least, take comfort in the knowledge that it isn't a brown bear.

[Drachasor]

That's a good point, but I'm not sure this wolf is going to stick around. He has only known the rest of the party for about 4 days and has almost been killed twice. Also, as the player is going to come back in with a detective (rogue 5/sleepless detective 1) instead of a ranger, I don't see any particular reason for the wolf to be there. The party members who are currently with the wolf don't have handle animal either, the reason it was fighting for them is that I had ruled it's master telling it to guard those party members was good enough (they really needed all the help they could get).

Ahh, well it would probably just go home then.

[Regitnui]

It'll pull a Hachiko, and wait loyally by its master's body for the raise dead spell. Or it'll follow whoever carries its master's body to the priests for a raise dead spell. Then it will jump on the resurrected PC and show massive amounts of affection.

[Drachasor]

It'll pull a Hachiko, and wait loyally by its master's body for the raise dead spell. Or it'll follow whoever carries its master's body to the priests for a raise dead spell. Then it will jump on the resurrected PC and show massive amounts of affection.

If the PCs won't raise the money for it, then the wolf will!

[BigKahuna]

It'll pull a Hachiko, and wait loyally by its master's body for the raise dead spell. Or it'll follow whoever carries its master's body to the priests for a raise dead spell. Then it will jump on the resurrected PC and show massive amounts of affection.

Unfortunately raising the dead is illegal in my setting, so the wolf would probably have to pay black market prices to raise his master.

[Drachasor]

Unfortunately raising the dead is illegal in my setting, so the wolf would probably have to pay black market prices to raise his master.

What about reincarnate from a friendly druid? More likely to find someone with Speak with Animals that way anyhow.

I believe the wolf is good for it in any case. His parents left him a significant estate.

[BigKahuna]

What about reincarnate from a friendly druid? More likely to find someone with Speak with Animals that way anyhow.

I believe the wolf is good for it in any case. His parents left him a significant estate.

I like it, so much so I'm seriously considering having the wolf to do this so I can bring back him and the ranger as villains later on. After all, who wouldn't turn a little villainous after his party was unwilling to raise him?

[Lord Vukodlak]

The closest thing I can find is the 2005 articles form wizards on familiars and animal companions in either case the abilities are lost but suggests they remain for 1/day per level. Of course that isn't pathfinder but I doubt we're going to find rules on the matter.

Personally I'd have the animal retain most of its abilities but it likely wander off into the wild to mourn in peace.