Speculation for twist in next strip (#898)

[Ron Miel]

Spoiler if correct. Avoiding mouseover reveal.

[Ron Miel]

Help for V to come from an unexpected source.

Back in #385 V offered some helpful advice to sabine, although V didn't know who she was. Sabine was grateful. I have thought for a long time that sooner or later, Sabine will do something to help V. It occurs to me that this could be her opportunity to repay the debt.

[martianmister]

She'll betray them for an advice? :smallconfused:

[Onyavar]

At most, Sabine offers a minor relief or minor advice, but nothing more. She may not be completely on the side of the fiends (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0804.html) anymore, but that doesn't mean she will thwart their plans. Why would she do that, anyway? :smallconfused:
She's chaotic evil incarnate; the favor V gave her was long ago; V has since fought on the enemy side several times. It would be VERY lawful of her to still feel indebted to V.

[Vinsfeld]

A deal is a deal. There's no way out.

[rodneyAnonymous]

I think the consequences for crossing the IFCC are too severe. Maybe if it's for Nale.

[RadagastTheBrow]

Is it cool if we post other speculation for next strips, too? Cool? Cool.

Here's a thought:

IFCC: "Well, it's time to go."

V: "...No. I'm not leaving yet. I'm repaying the debt. Second for second. I did something foolish and horribly, horribly wrong, and I refuse to let that past dictate my future any more than is absolutely necessary."

Mostly because it's occurred to me that neutralizing V isn't necessarily to take away the scary wizard powers- it's to take away her scary capacity for being clever. This is the cleverest thing I can think of for her to do in the current situation- Repay now, and maybe see something she's not supposed to. Turn the bad place to an advantage. That sort of thing.

Oh, who knows. Still, guessing is fun, yes?

[BroomGuys]

Is it cool if we post other speculation for next strips, too? Cool? Cool.

Here's a thought:

IFCC: "Well, it's time to go."

V: "...No. I'm not leaving yet. I'm repaying the debt. Second for second. I did something foolish and horribly, horribly wrong, and I refuse to let that past dictate my future any more than is absolutely necessary."

Mostly because it's occurred to me that neutralizing V isn't necessarily to take away the scary wizard powers- it's to take away her scary capacity for being clever. This is the cleverest thing I can think of for her to do in the current situation- Repay now, and maybe see something she's not supposed to. Turn the bad place to an advantage. That sort of thing.

Oh, who knows. Still, guessing is fun, yes?

If V can actually do that, that would be a pretty good moment of intelligent badassery, but I think the fiends get to pick when they use their option to take V's soul. I kinda hope you're right, though, because that would be really awesome. Although the fiends can probably prevent V from seeing things: "Our next item of 'torture' for you is a blindfold and earplugs. So you can't eavesdrop."

[Ted The Bug]

Is it cool if we post other speculation for next strips, too? Cool? Cool.

Here's a thought:

IFCC: "Well, it's time to go."

V: "...No. I'm not leaving yet. I'm repaying the debt. Second for second. I did something foolish and horribly, horribly wrong, and I refuse to let that past dictate my future any more than is absolutely necessary."

Mostly because it's occurred to me that neutralizing V isn't necessarily to take away the scary wizard powers- it's to take away her scary capacity for being clever. This is the cleverest thing I can think of for her to do in the current situation- Repay now, and maybe see something she's not supposed to. Turn the bad place to an advantage. That sort of thing.

Oh, who knows. Still, guessing is fun, yes?

Would the deal allow this? It's an interesting thought (though they could just plop V in a little room all but hirself until V gets bored and gives up), but I'm not sure it fits with the deal.

[Snails]

Sabine might consider V worthy of helping, but only for Nale would she ever consider directly crossing the IFCC.

I can imagine Sabine attempting to persuade the IFCC of some course for V's apparent benefit, while her actual goal is to help Nale be more important to the IFCC, so that she might bargain that into squashing Malack. What that bright idea might be, I have no idea.

[137beth]

A deal is a deal. There's no way out.

Aside from being a chaotic fiend?

[zimmerwald1915]

Aside from being a chaotic fiend?
Cedric, who is only "slightly less chaotic" than Sabine, doesn't seem to want to let V out of her deal anytime soon.

[RadagastTheBrow]

Would the deal allow this?

Why not? Debt is debt, and it's generally best to pay off debt before it accrues too much interest.

Here's another thought- would V maybe be able to pay off her debt to all three of them at once?


Each one of us will get your soul for the same amount of time that you are under the effects of their Soul Splice.

So, maintain all three splices for an hour, you soul spends one hour with me, then one hour each with my two associates.

Exact order of custody to be determined at a later point.

One hour with me, then one hour each with my two associates. Clever devils...

[tassaron]

Help for V to come from an unexpected source.

Back in #385 V offered some helpful advice to sabine, although V didn't know who she was. Sabine was grateful. I have thought for a long time that sooner or later, Sabine will do something to help V. It occurs to me that this could be her opportunity to repay the debt.



I don't think this will happen for the reasons already stated by others in the thread, but it is a nice observation. Kudos.

[JCAll]

I don't think Sabine will help V. I don't think she CAN help V. V is damned by his own hand. But since she's watching alongside V, and V's time in hell today is a lot shorter than hers, I expect them to see Nale get into trouble in the next bit, and Sabine begging V to help Nale when he gets back. Probably promising to help the Order, or at least keep Nale from hindering them further, if V can keep Nale alive until she gets back to him.

[CRtwenty]

I believe that Sabine and V are going to have a conversation next comic, but Sabine actually betraying the IFCC in any way doesn't seem very probable to me. At best she'll give some information about how to neutralize Tarquin or Malack to V since she has a vested interest in removing them to protect Nale.

She might accidently slip some crucial information (especially if Blackwing gets involved :smallwink:), but I don't see that happening intentionally.

[Gusion]

IFCC: "Well, it's time to go."

V: "...No. I'm not leaving yet. I'm repaying the debt. Second for second. I did something foolish and horribly, horribly wrong, and I refuse to let that past dictate my future any more than is absolutely necessary."

Very clever. I suspect the spell wouldn't allow it though, as part of "having" V's soul is the ability to control it - including dismissing it as needed.

That's not to say that V couldn't come up with some other creative ways to keep his soul there longer, using up as much time as possible though.

My prediction for the next strip is it will not be about V. Giant wrapped up V's situation fairly completely in this strip. He, apparently, wants V out of the way from a plot perspective. As he's commented previously that V often makes battle much more difficult, I almost think that having V restrained means a higher chance of a battle about to occur.

So. The next strip will be back to the gate and Roy trying to figure out how to destroy it. Probably some dialog, worrying about doing the job quickly but also how to survive the expected "bang"... maybe asking Haley to start looking for a secret door. As he begins to swing, a well timed "mass hold person" (a spell we already know Xykon has, thanks to O-Chul) and it stops the entire OOTS.

Then on the last panel, we see Xykon, Red, and the MITD. The MITD makes some funny quip ("aww but I wanted ice cream first") ... and the whole things leaves us in suspense.

[Jay R]

Is it cool if we post other speculation for next strips, too? Cool? Cool.

Here's a thought:

IFCC: "Well, it's time to go."

V: "...No. I'm not leaving yet. I'm repaying the debt. Second for second. I did something foolish and horribly, horribly wrong, and I refuse to let that past dictate my future any more than is absolutely necessary."

IFCC: "Feel free to stick around as long as you want. Your soul is your own right now, and you can have it here or anywhere else you choose. That won't affect the fact that two of us will still have the right to demand your soul as part of the agreement."

Similarly, if I stay late at the workplace, when the company has no work for me to do, I don't get paid overtime.

[137beth]

Cedric, who is only "slightly less chaotic" than Sabine, doesn't seem to want to let V out of her deal anytime soon.

Cedric wouldn't want to let V out of his/her end of the deal--that doesn't mean that he wouldn't be willing to break his end of another deal:smalltongue:

[Olinser]

Given that V signed the contract of hir own free will, and the IFCC is sticking to the letter of the contract, I highly doubt V is going anywhere, for any reason, for the next 20 minutes.

The contract says that the fiend currently exercising his rights gets V's soul for 20 minutes, 35 seconds. I have to assume that there is an extremely nasty clause somewhere in the contract if V attempts to weasel out of the deal.

It's not their fault V didn't actually READ the contract, and made assumptions based on their verbal explanation of it.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the contract states that if V tries in any way to escape during the allotted time, hir soul belongs to the IFCC in perpetuity.

[BroomGuys]

Given that V signed the contract of hir own free will, and the IFCC is sticking to the letter of the contract, I highly doubt V is going anywhere, for any reason, for the next 20 minutes.

This is pretty definitely true unless they talk V into signing a new deal, and I'm fair certain V knows better than to sign any deals with these guys ever again, so I agree with you here.


The contract says that the fiend currently exercising his rights gets V's soul for 20 minutes, 35 seconds. I have to assume that there is an extremely nasty clause somewhere in the contract if V attempts to weasel out of the deal.

From the way they're restraining V, I think it's simpler than that: V can't try to weasel out of the deal.


It's not their fault V didn't actually READ the contract, and made assumptions based on their verbal explanation of it.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the contract states that if V tries in any way to escape during the allotted time, hir soul belongs to the IFCC in perpetuity.

There is no written contract. The deal is what they agreed to verbally, including the clause exact order of custody to be determined at a later point (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html). This "verbal fine print" means the three fiends can pick whenever they want to take V's soul, and the lack of restrictions on it means any time is fair game, including before V's death. So there wasn't a rule they never told V about that they're enforcing now; V just assumed there was another rule that they never actually said. Thus, I'm pretty sure things like "whoops, you tried to get away, that's breach of contract so we get your soul forever!" would be a gross violation of their contract, just like taking control of V's body would be right now.

It's been mentioned elsewhere that the IFCC could be lying about rules like this (especially since Director Lee is the only one who is Lawful Evil of the three of them). But it seems pretty clear that the three of them can only act directly on the mortal plane by making a deal with a mortal, and that implies they can't violate their contract, at least not without dire consequences (e.g. getting the Good Gods all up in their business, y'all).

[halfeye]

It's not their fault V didn't actually READ the contract, and made assumptions based on their verbal explanation of it.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the contract states that if V tries in any way to escape during the allotted time, hir soul belongs to the IFCC in perpetuity.
The contract is the verbatim conversation, in writing. There is nothing else.

The phrase verbal contract exists, in the real world. In so far as either party can incontrovertably (in a court of law, which is not easy) prove what was said.

There can be no funny stuff in small print in a verbal contract, what wasn't said wasn't said.

[Sir_Leorik]

The contract is the verbatim conversation, in writing. There is nothing else.

The phrase verbal contract exists, in the real world. In so far as either party can incontrovertably (in a court of law, which is not easy) prove what was said.

There can be no funny stuff in small print in a verbal contract, what wasn't said wasn't said.

It usually pays to either get the contract in writing, or have witnesses to confirm what was said. The only witnesses present to hear the verbal contract were Qarr (who was immediately hired by the IFCC) and Blackwing (who was affected by the deal); other than Qarr and Blackwing, the deal may have been detected by the Devas and other Celestials, but they may not be fully privy to the details of the verbal contract. (We don't know what was exactly was in the file that Eugene destroyed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html).)

If the IFCC want to use the verbal contract against V they can point to the strip in book four where the text is and ask Qarr and Blackwing to confirm that they were witnesses to the words in question.

[BroomGuys]

I think the IFCC are pretty much powerful enough to enforce the contract by themselves, but they are unable to do anything in the mortal realm or to mortals that the contract does not allow them to. So witnesses may be unnecessary in this case: nobody is able to violate the contract anyway.

[veti]

Would the deal allow this? It's an interesting thought (though they could just plop V in a little room all but hirself until V gets bored and gives up), but I'm not sure it fits with the deal.

The deal, very pointedly, refrained from mentioning any timeframe for repayment, nor was there any mention of 'mutual agreement' or any similar formula. (For obvious reasons.)

If the fiends can unilaterally decide when to take it, it makes sense that V can equally unilaterally decide to pay it back of her own volition. If she can figure out some way of remaining on their plane after they dismiss her.

[skim172]

Sabine doesn't strike me as the type to ever really feel gratitude - or at least, not let it get in her way. She might not even remember V helping her that night. At best, I think Sabine doesn't really have any strong feelings about V one way or another.

At worst, she lumps V in with the rest of the Order, who have many times threatened and obstructed the one individual who she might be willing to betray her principles for - Nale. In which case, she might favor getting rid of the wizard once and for all.

[hamishspence]

Looks like V's not in 898.

Maybe the predicted twist will occur later, though.

[halfeye]

Sabine doesn't strike me as the type to ever really feel gratitude - or at least, not let it get in her way. She might not even remember V helping her that night. At best, I think Sabine doesn't really have any strong feelings about V one way or another.

At worst, she lumps V in with the rest of the Order, who have many times threatened and obstructed the one individual who she might be willing to betray her principles for - Nale. In which case, she might favor getting rid of the wizard once and for all.
It was Qarr who suggested Sabine loves Nale more than the IFCC, she implied that was not true. There was a "behind you all the way" to Nale later in that strip, but that could be misleading, or maybe not, at this point her overall allegiance is unknown.

[137beth]

Looks like V's not in 898.

Maybe the predicted twist will occur later, though.
*sigh* why can't silly theories like these ever die?

It was Qarr who suggested Sabine loves Nale more than the IFCC, she implied that was not true. There was a "behind you all the way" to Nale later in that strip, but that could be misleading, or maybe not, at this point her overall allegiance is unknown.
Yea, she's a being of pure chaotic evil, I don't think she really has much loyalty to Nale. She can do a pretty good job faking it, though.

[BobTheDog]

So... Do we KNOW (as in, has The Giant said anything) that the time of servitude needs to be contiguous? As in, if the first fiend decides to let V go early (the gate is destroyed, they don't need V anymore right now), couldn't he just call V again later?

Sure, the fiends word their comments so as to imply that this is a one-time, full-payment thing, but they have been known to make use of "unsaid assumptions". So, even if the fiends return V before 20:35, if they do not expressly state that V is done with orange-fiend, my money is on "he'll take control of V later".

In fact, this sounds like a feasible "V returns" strip. If V has really wizened up to the way the fiends work, V will find a way to ensure that 1/3* of the debt is settled.

*not considering that one of the fiends has less time to claim.